The Odyssey

[hypochondriac]

1 hour ago, whelk said:

Most of your list I haven’t seen so can’t really comment.

Didn’t rate Last of Us second series but can’t even remember the cast more the slow plot and fucking about with time

You don't remember all the shit about ellie saying she would be a dad? And the cringe sex scenes? Like you say though lots of other reasons it was shit too. I thought Bella ramsay was terribly miscast for both seasons tbh and Pablo pascal is in absolutely everything nowadays.

[iansums]

50 minutes ago, whelk said:

Only remember Henry XIII and Cromwell, both superb. Can’t remember any diversity though

Black guardsmen and Asian ladies in waiting. On The Odyssey, saw it last weekend, enjoyed it, three hours didn’t drag but I can’t quite understand the massive love in for the film.

[whelk]

37 minutes ago, iansums said:

Black guardsmen and Asian ladies in waiting. On The Odyssey, saw it last weekend, enjoyed it, three hours didn’t drag but I can’t quite understand the massive love in for the film.

I think I must be as pure as David Brent as didn’t notice colour 

[whelk]

41 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

You don't remember all the shit about ellie saying she would be a dad? And the cringe sex scenes? Like you say though lots of other reasons it was shit too. I thought Bella ramsay was terribly miscast for both seasons tbh and Pablo pascal is in absolutely everything nowadays.

TBH I drifted away from the plot quite significantly and felt a slog to endure. Probably distracted by Saintweb!

no idea how true it is to the game though as initially it was raved as game authentic or some similar term

Edited July 27 by whelk

[hypochondriac]

17 minutes ago, whelk said:

TBH I drifted away from the plot quite significantly and felt a slog to endure. Probably distracted by Saintweb!

no idea how true it is to the game though as initially it was raved as game authentic or some similar term

The lame game sequel was created by a different person (Neil druckman who retrospectively claimed all the credit for the original when it was actually Bruce straley and to a lesser extent the excellent Amy hennig). I believe a lot of the second season is faithful to the game, the problem is the game was substantially worse than the first one.

[Sheaf Saint]

7 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

The Rings of Power - terrible and only watched season one. 

The first season was ponderous and confusing, but the second season was excellent

I'm curious though - which particular bit(s) of casting do you think ruined it?

[hypochondriac]

18 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

The first season was ponderous and confusing, but the second season was excellent

I'm curious though - which particular bit(s) of casting do you think ruined it?

Again obviously everything is subjective. Personally as a big fan of Tolkein I think it's been absolutely terrible. Straying from the book to cast different ethnicities in roles was a distraction, particularly when the cast went out of their way to draw attention to it ('first female dwarf' was a load of old bollocks). The show seemed to assign ethnicity individually so Arondir appeared to be the single black elf with no explanation. Middle earth was always about a collection of developed people and cultures rather than random diverse individuals scattered in to meet Amazon's hiring criteria. 

Worse than that though was morfydd Clark as Galadriel. She was written appallingly, I didn't like her acting. She was unlikable, looked too slight and young and lacked any of the characteristics of the character from the book or the Jackson adaptations. She's not exactly cate Blanchett. In fact many of the characters weren't a patch on the originals and felt like a fan service type thing with inferior versions.

The Harfoots were joke characters who made no sense and I found it particularly jarring to see Lenny Henry in there. Oh and trying humanise orcs and make them sympathetic is absolutely idiotic. The show has rightly tanked with reviews and audiences when you would assume that lord of the rings would be incredibly easy to get people to watch.

[Sheaf Saint]

6 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Again obviously everything is subjective. Personally as a big fan of Tolkein I think it's been absolutely terrible. Straying from the book to cast different ethnicities in roles was a distraction, particularly when the cast went out of their way to draw attention to it ('first female dwarf' was a load of old bollocks). The show seemed to assign ethnicity individually so Arondir appeared to be the single black elf with no explanation. Middle earth was always about a collection of developed people and cultures rather than random diverse individuals scattered in to meet Amazon's hiring criteria. 

Worse than that though was morfydd Clark as Galadriel. She was written appallingly, I didn't like her acting. She was unlikable, looked too slight and young and lacked any of the characteristics of the character from the book or the Jackson adaptations. She's not exactly cate Blanchett. In fact many of the characters weren't a patch on the originals and felt like a fan service type thing with inferior versions.

The Harfoots were joke characters who made no sense and I found it particularly jarring to see Lenny Henry in there. Oh and trying humanise orcs and make them sympathetic is absolutely idiotic. The show has rightly tanked with reviews and audiences when you would assume that lord of the rings would be incredibly easy to get people to watch.

Ah okay. I've never actually read any Tolkien myself so I had no prior expectations to judge the series against. 

[hypochondriac]

10 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Ah okay. I've never actually read any Tolkien myself so I had no prior expectations to judge the series against. 

Fair enough. I could see how it might be a more enjoyable show in that case.

[The Kraken]

This thread is hilarious. Well done. I didn’t realise that actors with dark skin playing entirely made up characters like elves, dwarves and whatever else could be so infuriating. My eyes opened.

 

Edited July 27 by The Kraken

[egg]

3 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

This thread is hilarious. Well done. I didn’t realise that actors with dark skin playing entirely made up characters like elves, dwarves and whatever else could be so infuriating. My eyes opened.

 

Yep, although to be fair, Tolkien does describe some characters by colour. 

I'm still reeling from tiny Tom Cruise playing the massive Jack Reacher. 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

Again obviously everything is subjective. Personally as a big fan of Tolkein I think it's been absolutely terrible. Straying from the book to cast different ethnicities in roles was a distraction, particularly when the cast went out of their way to draw attention to it ('first female dwarf' was a load of old bollocks). The show seemed to assign ethnicity individually so Arondir appeared to be the single black elf with no explanation. Middle earth was always about a collection of developed people and cultures rather than random diverse individuals scattered in to meet Amazon's hiring criteria. 

Worse than that though was morfydd Clark as Galadriel. She was written appallingly, I didn't like her acting. She was unlikable, looked too slight and young and lacked any of the characteristics of the character from the book or the Jackson adaptations. She's not exactly cate Blanchett. In fact many of the characters weren't a patch on the originals and felt like a fan service type thing with inferior versions.

The Harfoots were joke characters who made no sense and I found it particularly jarring to see Lenny Henry in there. Oh and trying humanise orcs and make them sympathetic is absolutely idiotic. The show has rightly tanked with reviews and audiences when you would assume that lord of the rings would be incredibly easy to get people to watch.

Not having BAME elves and dwarves because "Middle earth was always about a collection of developed people and cultures" came across unintentionally badly. 🙂

I've not seen it, so have no opinion on it's qualities.

A quick peek showed a lot of criticism on a ton of differences to source material. But I'm reading that the Tolkien estate didn't give Amazon the rights. So they're basing the show on fragments they do have access to. That they ploughed on, was going to open them up to a lot of flak.

Lots of criticism on the plotting, writing, acting etc. which you'd get with lots of shows. Personal taste or objectively well or badly executed.

Having characters justify their casting in character is really clunky.

Nothing derails a million fantasy worlds and RPGs more than a cut scene to the Orc town, where the little ones ask when daddy is coming home.
"Well, those elves are sending scouting parties through our lands, pretending they're on a quest again."
"Mommy? Didn't the elves kill all their non-white people?"
"That's right son. They're not tolerant like we are. Although they say there's a lone, black one now."
"Is that like a Dark Elf, a race always portrayed as evil in fantasy because of their skin colour?"
 

59 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

This thread is hilarious. Well done. I didn’t realise that actors with dark skin playing entirely made up characters like elves, dwarves and whatever else could be so infuriating. My eyes opened.

 

You just don't know your elven lore. 🙂
Fantasy only begins with imagination. After that it's shackled to canon by gatekeepers.

Edited July 27 by Holmes_and_Watson

[The Kraken]

I enjoyed that 🙏

[hypochondriac]

1 hour ago, The Kraken said:

This thread is hilarious. Well done. I didn’t realise that actors with dark skin playing entirely made up characters like elves, dwarves and whatever else could be so infuriating. My eyes opened.

 

You missed the point of my post entirely. Someone asked what I was I didn't like about it and I answered. At no point was I infuriated. I just stopped watching.

Edited July 27 by hypochondriac

[LVSaint]

Nolan is a master of perfect movie pacing so those curious at whether almost three hours stuck in a chair is going to be taxing, it isn't, it almost flies by. (Oppenheimer, my favourite of his, didn't lag at all)

i do however recommend a comfy chair, that reclines, full on Dolby DFX sound and I got a free ticket for a seat that moves, sways and rumbles in sync. I didn't need the rollercoaster seat but can see this is what cinemas will be hoping lure movie fans back to seeing stuff on the big screen.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

A quite scathing, but not always, review of Nolan's film from a translator of Homer's work.

https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v48/n14/emily-wilson/an-uncomplicated-man

I think her translation was mentioned as being excellent by the Rest is History podcast.

[Weston Super Saint]

17 hours ago, egg said:

Yep, although to be fair, Tolkien does describe some characters by colour. 

I'm still reeling from tiny Tom Cruise playing the massive Jack Reacher. 

Hold on to your hat when you get round to Shrek!

[badgerx16]

17 hours ago, egg said:

Yep, although to be fair, Tolkien does describe some characters by colour. . 

But the Elves did not go to Helm's Deep.

( And it was Glorfindel, not Arwen, who saved Frodo and took him to Rivendell )

Edited July 28 by badgerx16

[benjii]

There are various European right-wing groups that love a bit of Tolkien. His works basically group ethnicities into 'good' and 'bad', which appeals to them for some reason.

 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

4 hours ago, benjii said:

There are various European right-wing groups that love a bit of Tolkien. His works basically group ethnicities into 'good' and 'bad', which appeals to them for some reason.

 

Who knew this innocent game would be a gateway into right wing ideology?

If only we'd stopped to ask if the orcs actually had been happily allowed by our government to stay, and we're not raiding parties.

[Mixedkebab]

Another terrific thread full of drippy comments by weedy middle class spanners trying to convince themselves their Steve Biko Bar opinions have any relevance.

”Hey guys, I don’t care that the actor is not white because I’m an edgy old suburban type! It’s such a different take compared to most grey haired financially comfortable guys like me and I want people on this forum to know I’ve got really original opinions!”

[Mixedkebab]

W

Edited July 29 by Mixedkebab

[whelk]

6 hours ago, Mixedkebab said:

Another terrific thread full of drippy comments by weedy middle class spanners trying to convince themselves their Steve Biko Bar opinions have any relevance.

”Hey guys, I don’t care that the actor is not white because I’m an edgy old suburban type! It’s such a different take compared to most grey haired financially comfortable guys like me and I want people on this forum to know I’ve got really original opinions!”

You seem a little unhinged and full of rage. Maybe a trip to the cinema might help? Try and enjoy something

[whelk]

6 hours ago, Mixedkebab said:

W

Completely agree

[CB Fry]

6 hours ago, Mixedkebab said:

Another terrific thread full of drippy comments by weedy middle class spanners trying to convince themselves their Steve Biko Bar opinions have any relevance.

”Hey guys, I don’t care that the actor is not white because I’m an edgy old suburban type! It’s such a different take compared to most grey haired financially comfortable guys like me and I want people on this forum to know I’ve got really original opinions!”

I wish my opinions had any relevance like what yours do.

[hypochondriac]

I think I made some reasonable points about some media and then it's rather undermined by an absolute spanner sort of supporting my point but in reality just being a massive spastic. 

[badgerx16]

7 hours ago, Mixedkebab said:

W

...ankers the lot of them.

Edited July 30 by badgerx16

[Holmes_and_Watson]

7 hours ago, Mixedkebab said:

Another terrific thread full of drippy comments by weedy middle class spanners trying to convince themselves their Steve Biko Bar opinions have any relevance.

”Hey guys, I don’t care that the actor is not white because I’m an edgy old suburban type! It’s such a different take compared to most grey haired financially comfortable guys like me and I want people on this forum to know I’ve got really original opinions!”

SaintsWeb dropped the feature where we could add our own signatures, because every one of them was exactly that. So glad you're here. 🙂

[JohnnyShearer2.0]

15 hours ago, Mixedkebab said:

Another terrific thread full of drippy comments by weedy middle class spanners trying to convince themselves their Steve Biko Bar opinions have any relevance.

”Hey guys, I don’t care that the actor is not white because I’m an edgy old suburban type! It’s such a different take compared to most grey haired financially comfortable guys like me and I want people on this forum to know I’ve got really original opinions!”

So did you enjoy the film then?!

[AlexLaw76]

Seen the film, absolutely loved it.

 

[Hamilton Saint]

If you want to experience The Odyssey and The Iliad of Homer in a deep way--a way that is not mediated primarily through a Hollywood-spectacular vision, I recommend reading them.

This was how I first experienced them--during a Classical Civilisation course in university back in the late-1970s. Doing them like that--being guided by an academic familiar with the world of ancient Greek language and culture--provides something so much richer than a mere cinematic spectacle.

The versions of the text that I read were translated by Richard Lattimore. I've read them a couple of times since them (because they were sitting there, waiting patiently, on my bookshlef). More recently, I read on The Guardian's website about Emily Wilson's new translations of Homer--2018 for The Odyssey, and 2023 for The Iliad. I was intrigued by the praise given these new translations and, being the grecophile that I am, I bought both to get a modern view of these epics.

The best thing about reading them was that both translations begin with a long introduction that provides crucial insights into the style of Homeric epic and the cultural beliefs of ancient Greece that underpin the stories. Without these elucidations, many of the events will be outlandish, repellant, and inexplicable to the modern sensibility. 

It is so much more rewarding to spend a week or so immersed in the Homeric world of the Odyssey, than to get a superficial, warped, and cinematic version that will never satisfy you in the same way. IMHO!

If you have the patience and curiosity to give the real thing a try, I recommend tackling the ancient text (in translation).

By the way, the original thing was designed to be heard in recitation, rather than read--which has a lot to do with its particular style.