hypochondriac Posted 7 May, 2009 Share Posted 7 May, 2009 If these consortia don't have a lot of money then maybe Fry isn't as great as first thought. If the club fold then he has to take some of the blame. I have heard he is on a high wedge as well and wants he new buyers to stump up his wage (allegedly). I hope these guys are OK and are accepted by the creditors but if not we could be in deep trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scummer Posted 7 May, 2009 Share Posted 7 May, 2009 You don't seem to understand the role of an administrator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 7 May, 2009 Author Share Posted 7 May, 2009 You don't seem to understand the role of an administrator. I understand that people were raving how great he was (myself included). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Farmer Posted 7 May, 2009 Share Posted 7 May, 2009 If these consortia don't have a lot of money then maybe Fry isn't as great as first thought. If the club fold then he has to take some of the blame. I have heard he is on a high wedge as well and wants he new buyers to stump up his wage (allegedly). I hope these guys are OK and are accepted by the creditors but if not we could be in deep trouble. Fry has no say in the offers, he is there only as a conduit of the process. Of course he'll have a commission factored in, I'm guessing his firm will be paid out of the estate if the clubs isn't sold and broken up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beer Engine Posted 7 May, 2009 Share Posted 7 May, 2009 The administrator should neither take the credit if a buyer comes forward nor take the blame if there is no buyer. His job is to keep things ticking over for as long as possible and make the numbers available to any prospective purchaser. He can't spirit a buyer out of thin air. If someone with access to funds is interested in owning the Saints and Barclays/Aviva and HMRC are prepared to yield to the extent required for the numbers to make sense then you have a buyer. It's not magic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 7 May, 2009 Author Share Posted 7 May, 2009 Fry has no say in the offers, he is there only as a conduit of the process. Of course he'll have a commission factored in, I'm guessing his firm will be paid out of the estate if the clubs isn't sold and broken up. But he can encourage bids. After all FF was alluding to favouritism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 7 May, 2009 Author Share Posted 7 May, 2009 The administrator should neither take the credit if a buyer comes forward nor take the blame if there is no buyer. His job is to keep things ticking over for as long as possible and make the numbers available to any prospective purchaser. He can't spirit a buyer out of thin air. If someone with access to funds is interested in owning the Saints and Barclays/Aviva and HMRC are prepared to yield to the extent required for the numbers to make sense then you have a buyer. It's not magic. See my post above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 7 May, 2009 Share Posted 7 May, 2009 I understand that people were raving how great he was (myself included). For absolutely no reason. He's just doing the job he's employed to do. His PR skills do seem to be more than reasonable, for which he deserves a bit of credit, but for the amount of money Begbies Traynor will be charging the club, he's doing exactly what he should be doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint77 Posted 7 May, 2009 Share Posted 7 May, 2009 If these consortia don't have a lot of money then maybe Fry isn't as great as first thought. If the club fold then he has to take some of the blame. I have heard he is on a high wedge as well and wants he new buyers to stump up his wage (allegedly). I hope these guys are OK and are accepted by the creditors but if not we could be in deep trouble. wait and see for christs sake when you /we all know the outcome have your 6eggs worth then until then dont be so bloody negative Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Billy Posted 7 May, 2009 Share Posted 7 May, 2009 Its not Frys fault if we don't get any big money bids. He can only deal with whats on the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole Posted 7 May, 2009 Share Posted 7 May, 2009 I never joined the anal Mark Fry love in, but equally see no reason to criticise him now. I'm sure we'll see a takeover within a week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Super Saint Posted 7 May, 2009 Share Posted 7 May, 2009 I understand that people were raving how great he was (myself included). People [Lowe] were raving about Jan Portvliet too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 7 May, 2009 Author Share Posted 7 May, 2009 wait and see for christs sake when you /we all know the outcome have your 6eggs worth then until then dont be so bloody negative Cheers but a messageboard is for discussion. I suggest you read what some people put on here? I'm not being negative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Farmer Posted 7 May, 2009 Share Posted 7 May, 2009 (edited) But he can encourage bids. Well I'm guessing the Pressers were intended to raise awareness of the situation, so he did that well. After all FF was alluding to favouritism. I thought brown envelopes went out of fashion when droopy dog left* *I don't believe this really Edited 7 May, 2009 by The Farmer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattyd Posted 7 May, 2009 Share Posted 7 May, 2009 Fry has no say in the offers, he is there only as a conduit of the process. Of course he'll have a commission factored in, I'm guessing his firm will be paid out of the estate if the clubs isn't sold and broken up. The administrator is paid by the hour (different rates for different grades) and is paid from the estate of SLH not SFC. The price the club is sold for is added to the SLH estate and a dividen paid after his fees to creditors (according to the pecking order). This could be 0.1p in the pound or nothing for non preferential creditors like shareholders. Mr Fry's sole aim is to realise maximum return for creditors, investigate the causes of the insolvency and report them to BERR and wind up SLH. he has no duty to the fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legod Third Coming Posted 7 May, 2009 Share Posted 7 May, 2009 I don't think the administrator takes a commission on the sale. His job is to run our company and look for a buyer. For that he will be (what we consider) handsomely rewarded. Administrators charge high fees because they are, and have to be, skilled at what they do. There are perks, sure. I well remember an administrator acquiring a very nice car from a business that went bust because he wanted it and was able to buy it off the company - justifying the decision because the cost (time) of selling it on the open market would could have been significant - so he saved his own time! But his job, is to run our business for the creditors and achieve the maximum return for them, nothing more, nothing less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 7 May, 2009 Author Share Posted 7 May, 2009 I don't think the administrator takes a commission on the sale. His job is to run our company and look for a buyer. For that he will be (what we consider) handsomely rewarded. Administrators charge high fees because they are, and have to be, skilled at what they do. There are perks, sure. I well remember an administrator acquiring a very nice car from a business that went bust because he wanted it and was able to buy it off the company - justifying the decision because the cost (time) of selling it on the open market would could have been significant - so he saved his own time! But his job, is to run our business for the creditors and achieve the maximum return for them, nothing more, nothing less. What would you consider handsomely rewarded? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpturner Posted 7 May, 2009 Share Posted 7 May, 2009 If these consortia don't have a lot of money then maybe Fry isn't as great as first thought.Did I miss something? When was it announced that the bidders don't have "a lot of money" and even they don't (whatever "a lot" amounts to) why would that mean that Fry is not as great as first thought? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Super Saint Posted 7 May, 2009 Share Posted 7 May, 2009 What would you consider handsomely rewarded? 3 pickled eggs and some scampi fries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 7 May, 2009 Share Posted 7 May, 2009 I'm not quite sure why some fans have such high expectations of what a buyout is likely to bring... The best I am hoping for at this time is that we get an offer big enough to satisfy the creditors - and the FL. It needs to deonstrate we have not avoided paying off the majority of the debt else its additional point deductions. Then and only then should we be worried about any inward investment into the team.... this notion that bidders may want to 'keep back' more cash to invest in the team than pay off creditors is a bit galling - I hope we find a decent crowd with some decent feckin morals and ethics for a change that see it as a duty not to leave, particularly the smaller creditors in the mire. Mr Fry at least will be lookinto recommend the bid that offers the creditors the best returen - not the one that potentailly has more capital available to inject into the club following completion and that is not only Mr Fry doing his job as set out, but also a good thing IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 7 May, 2009 Share Posted 7 May, 2009 Who thought he was great then he's just an administrator after all. We don't really know what he's been doing apart from a few soundbites. Don't see that he's any different from any other administrator really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
up and away Posted 7 May, 2009 Share Posted 7 May, 2009 I'm not quite sure why some fans have such high expectations of what a buyout is likely to bring... The best I am hoping for at this time is that we get an offer big enough to satisfy the creditors - and the FL. It needs to deonstrate we have not avoided paying off the majority of the debt else its additional point deductions. Then and only then should we be worried about any inward investment into the team.... this notion that bidders may want to 'keep back' more cash to invest in the team than pay off creditors is a bit galling - I hope we find a decent crowd with some decent feckin morals and ethics for a change that see it as a duty not to leave, particularly the smaller creditors in the mire. Mr Fry at least will be lookinto recommend the bid that offers the creditors the best returen - not the one that potentailly has more capital available to inject into the club following completion and that is not only Mr Fry doing his job as set out, but also a good thing IMHO. Everything I am hearing does not fill me with confidence. I get the feeling the preferred option that comes through the system will start baulking when it comes down to handing over actual money. Then leaving us with option 2 which could easily go the same way, then total reliance upon the only to be used in absolute desperation, the back up option. I just hope the back up option is worth more then melting everything down and selling off at a booter. As for Mark Fry, he would gladly sell it to Mandaric to chop everything up into peices and sell it as souveniers to Pompey supporters, if that gave the best return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legod Third Coming Posted 7 May, 2009 Share Posted 7 May, 2009 What would you consider handsomely rewarded? Well, a Director of Deloittes (Insolvency specialist - ie. an Administrator) I know well lives in a six bedroom pad in a little village, drives a Rangie Sport, skis twice a year, goes on holiday two further times, has three kids in private education and a wife who doesn't work. You know, handsome .... A partner? Write your own cheque. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grammy Posted 7 May, 2009 Share Posted 7 May, 2009 If these consortia don't have a lot of money then maybe Fry isn't as great as first thought. If the club fold then he has to take some of the blame. I have heard he is on a high wedge as well and wants he new buyers to stump up his wage (allegedly). I hope these guys are OK and are accepted by the creditors but if not we could be in deep trouble. What a muppet you are! For gods sake let the bloke do his job and lets see the outcome before starting to critisice. It seems to me hes doing his job in a professional and proper manner. What administrator in the company would leek potentialy damaging information about prospective buyers just to keep us happy. Get real! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottery st mary Posted 7 May, 2009 Share Posted 7 May, 2009 Well, a Director of Deloittes (Insolvency specialist - ie. an Administrator) I know well lives in a six bedroom pad in a little village, drives a Rangie Sport, skis twice a year, goes on holiday two further times, has three kids in private education and a wife who doesn't work. You know, handsome .... A partner? Write your own cheque. Is that Clapham Saint:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StInky Posted 7 May, 2009 Share Posted 7 May, 2009 What would you consider handsomely rewarded? A partner would be charged out at c. £400 per hour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatlesaint Posted 7 May, 2009 Share Posted 7 May, 2009 Does this thread get a prize for being most ridiculous of the week or something ? Anyone who thinks a multi-millionaire is gonna come in, pump millions into the club and watch us rise back to the Premier League in double quick time is seriously out of touch with reality. Just having a club to support with a little money to strengthen and a manager who knows this league and how to get out of it is the best we can hope for. Lets just be grateful that there are two bids on the table and that Mark Fry and co. are doing their jobs and working towards getting a buyer to keep this club alive. FFS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 7 May, 2009 Author Share Posted 7 May, 2009 A partner would be charged out at c. £400 per hour. I was told it was a hell of a lot more than that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponty Posted 7 May, 2009 Share Posted 7 May, 2009 He's only a bloke doing a job, with zero vested interest in Saints. Only a couple of people compared him to MLT so don't be too hard on yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 7 May, 2009 Author Share Posted 7 May, 2009 Having said this if he does get us sold he is a legend... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 7 May, 2009 Share Posted 7 May, 2009 His PR skills do seem to be more than reasonable, for which he deserves a bit of credit, but for the amount of money Begbies Traynor will be charging the club, he's doing exactly what he should be doing. begbies Traynor are not charging the club, they are charging SLH (the plc), unless of course you are Mawhinney in disguise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 7 May, 2009 Share Posted 7 May, 2009 But he can encourage bids. After all FF was alluding to favouritism. Yes, but he was probably talking ********. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattyd Posted 7 May, 2009 Share Posted 7 May, 2009 I was told it was a hell of a lot more than that[/QUO Begbis Tryanor charge around £400 per hour + VAT for a partner but most of the work is done by his team at anything from £150 + VAT upwards per hour. Of course much of this money goes on overheads including very expensive indemnity insurance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 7 May, 2009 Author Share Posted 7 May, 2009 Yes, but he was probably talking ********. Maybe (I don't believe so.) But then this forum is all about discussing rumours and hearsay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 7 May, 2009 Author Share Posted 7 May, 2009 I was told it was a hell of a lot more than that[/QUO Begbis Tryanor charge around £400 per hour + VAT for a partner but most of the work is done by his team at anything from £150 + VAT upwards per hour. Of course much of this money goes on overheads including very expensive indemnity insurance. 25K a day? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 7 May, 2009 Share Posted 7 May, 2009 He's only a bloke doing a job, with zero vested interest in Saints. Only a couple of people compared him to MLT so don't be too hard on yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 7 May, 2009 Share Posted 7 May, 2009 25K a day? What? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 7 May, 2009 Author Share Posted 7 May, 2009 What? What I was told. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 7 May, 2009 Share Posted 7 May, 2009 What I was told. You were told they were racking up £25k a day in fees? No chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niceandfriendly Posted 7 May, 2009 Share Posted 7 May, 2009 This post is unbelievable. First this... If these consortia don't have a lot of money then maybe Fry isn't as great as first thought. and then this... 25K a day? At least it's given us all a good laugh, cheers OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legod Third Coming Posted 7 May, 2009 Share Posted 7 May, 2009 You were told they were racking up £25k a day in fees? No chance. Quite but 2.5k easily. Probably around 5ish I would have thought. 3/4 hours of a partner at £400 an hour, 7 of junior at £300 - it soon adds up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintBobby Posted 7 May, 2009 Share Posted 7 May, 2009 Everything I am hearing does not fill me with confidence. I get the feeling the preferred option that comes through the system will start baulking when it comes down to handing over actual money. Then leaving us with option 2 which could easily go the same way, then total reliance upon the only to be used in absolute desperation, the back up option. I just hope the back up option is worth more then melting everything down and selling off at a booter. As for Mark Fry, he would gladly sell it to Mandaric to chop everything up into peices and sell it as souveniers to Pompey supporters, if that gave the best return. Readily accept I'm rather out of my depth and no expert, here. However, my (limited) understanding is that the administrator's role/duty involves attempting to keep the company assets together as a sort of job lot and to find a buyer who can make the company a going concern. A liquidator or asset stripper would just chop up the assets into bits and sell the flagpole to Mr. X and the Ted Bates statue to Mr. Y. Am pretty sure we are still in a phase whereby there's a legal/fiduciary duty on Mark Fry to save SLH "as is" rather than to sell it off in bits, even if the latter would be in the interests of the creditors. I think this is the difference between administration and bankruptcy/liquidation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legod Third Coming Posted 7 May, 2009 Share Posted 7 May, 2009 Readily accept I'm rather out of my depth and no expert, here. However, my (limited) understanding is that the administrator's role/duty involves attempting to keep the company assets together as a sort of job lot and to find a buyer who can make the company a going concern. A liquidator or asset stripper would just chop up the assets into bits and sell the flagpole to Mr. X and the Ted Bates statue to Mr. Y. Am pretty sure we are still in a phase whereby there's a legal/fiduciary duty on Mark Fry to save SLH "as is" rather than to sell it off in bits, even if the latter would be in the interests of the creditors. I think this is the difference between administration and bankruptcy/liquidation. Don't think that's far off. Administration is basically the bank/lenders calling in someone to run the business because the current management can't! Some businesses can be in administration for ages simply because the lenders want it to be run until it can be sold. However, he doesn't have to sell it 'as is' - he can sell any of the assets along the way. So in our case, he could sell a farm to keep the rest of the business running, for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clapham Saint Posted 7 May, 2009 Share Posted 7 May, 2009 I don't think the administrator takes a commission on the sale. His job is to run our company and look for a buyer. For that he will be (what we consider) handsomely rewarded. Administrators charge high fees because they are, and have to be, skilled at what they do. There are perks, sure. I well remember an administrator acquiring a very nice car from a business that went bust because he wanted it and was able to buy it off the company - justifying the decision because the cost (time) of selling it on the open market would could have been significant - so he saved his own time! But his job, is to run our business for the creditors and achieve the maximum return for them, nothing more, nothing less. If that is true then he should be facing disciplinary proceedings and lose his IP licence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St_Tel49 Posted 7 May, 2009 Share Posted 7 May, 2009 I was told it was a hell of a lot more than that Out of idle curiosity - by who? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clapham Saint Posted 7 May, 2009 Share Posted 7 May, 2009 Readily accept I'm rather out of my depth and no expert, here. However, my (limited) understanding is that the administrator's role/duty involves attempting to keep the company assets together as a sort of job lot and to find a buyer who can make the company a going concern. A liquidator or asset stripper would just chop up the assets into bits and sell the flagpole to Mr. X and the Ted Bates statue to Mr. Y. Am pretty sure we are still in a phase whereby there's a legal/fiduciary duty on Mark Fry to save SLH "as is" rather than to sell it off in bits, even if the latter would be in the interests of the creditors. I think this is the difference between administration and bankruptcy/liquidation. Right outcome, wrong reasons. Objective 1 is to preserve the COMPANY as a going concern. SLH Plc is insolvent and has no prospect of returning to profitable trading in its current form. Technically referred to as F***ED. Objective 2 is to acheive a better return for creditors. This is where we are at the moment. Luckily (for us anyway) Being able to sell the football club as a going concern is by far the most likely route to maximise the return to creditors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintBobby Posted 7 May, 2009 Share Posted 7 May, 2009 Right outcome, wrong reasons. Objective 1 is to preserve the COMPANY as a going concern. SLH Plc is insolvent and has no prospect of returning to profitable trading in its current form. Technically referred to as F***ED. Objective 2 is to acheive a better return for creditors. This is where we are at the moment. Luckily (for us anyway) Being able to sell the football club as a going concern is by far the most likely route to maximise the return to creditors. So, is there any difference between SLH being in administration and it being liquidated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clapham Saint Posted 7 May, 2009 Share Posted 7 May, 2009 So, is there any difference between SLH being in administration and it being liquidated? Yes. The key one being that an administrator can continue to trade whilst he seeks a buyer. A liquidator can not trade the business and so just shuts the doors and sells what he can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintBobby Posted 8 May, 2009 Share Posted 8 May, 2009 Yes. The key one being that an administrator can continue to trade whilst he seeks a buyer. A liquidator can not trade the business and so just shuts the doors and sells what he can. Gotcha. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg_hill Posted 8 May, 2009 Share Posted 8 May, 2009 Really, no posts after #2 were necessary. MF cannot produce a buyer by magic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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