Wotte would be your choice

[JonnyLove]

Ok so we are in the mists of a new owner (hopefully). The issue of who the manager ill or should be comes up.

 

The question is would or should we give Wotte a chance.

 

On one note it is a nice idea of a full clean sweep with no trace of bad blood at all.

 

On the other. Wotte has proven in other countries that he is a good manager. I have to say our performances were to a degree a lot better than under JP (possibly would of been better if he was manager instead of JP in the first place). Players seem to like him and has a reasonable reputation.

 

The other plus side is that he always seems to talk positives about the club and the players (not forgetting the city)

 

So a full clean sweep or give the guy who seems to want to undo what has been done and also seems to be very passionate about the club, players and city the job for 1 season to see what he can do.

 

I have to say it's a hard one and I am glad I don't make the decision. But if I had to come off the comfort of the fence then unless another Nigel Pearson or a Daren ferguson (no not paul ince as he will drop us the second another club comes calling) is available then I would like to give the guy a chance.

[eurosaint]

Been through all this before but put simply I would say that he does not have the contacts to get the right players for this level !

A complete fresh start is imperative IMHO !

[ponto1963]

With his hands untied he could be OK. I reckon he would have saved us if he'd been allowed to do what he wanted, without all the disasters going on in the background.

[hamster]

I would rather have Dubai Phil, EVEn that nickh bloke would do at a push, although he definitely needs to work on his half time team talks imho.

 

Seriously though, I would NOT wish to carry on this experiment.

 

There was a suggestion made by ladysaint on another thread that would get my 100% backing.

Reid into that what you will.

[NickG]

most important thing is someone supported by and who can work with, new board - that often means their own new man.

 

We could do worse than Wotte so wouldn't be too upset if he stayed.

 

Equally he is tarnished with being involved with the old Southampton and think it would he easier to get united and optimistic behind new man.

 

Quite interested in seeing how Tisdale would get on (hence my thread on him), but would rather Wotte than some of the half a dozen time sacked names which usually come out.

 

Hard to say without knowing new boards budget, short-term/long-term plans.

[smithy]

I have met Wotte and he came across as very professional with the best interests of the team/club at heart.I think he could do a good job given the right circumstances.

 

If the new owners want a fresh start then I think Dennis Wise is worth a look given what he did with Leeds before he left for Newcastle. He does have a connection with Saints too.

 

I've never been a fan of Wise, on or off the pitch, but I reckon he'll have a point to prove for many reasons.

[rocknrollman no2]

I dont think we should keep Wotte.Ok he seemed to talk the talk,but we still lost too many games because the players didnt seemed bothered.That suggests Wotte couldnt motivate them enough.We need a clean sweep.

What we need is someone who knows this league and someone who has contacts,maybe a loan player,or a helping hand from an old mate at another team.

Half the battle of being a good manager is the people you know.

[NickG]

don't get this "knows this league" thing.

 

We need a decent manager - not an expert on league 1.

 

NP is held up as a great guy to have and most would snap him up - his management experience before us next to none, his experience managing in league 1 before last season?

[Windmill Arm 2]

I have met Wotte and he came across as very professional with the best interests of the team/club at heart.I think he could do a good job given the right circumstances.

 

If the new owners want a fresh start then I think Dennis Wise is worth a look given what he did with Leeds before he left for Newcastle. He does have a connection with Saints too.

 

I've never been a fan of Wise, on or off the pitch, but I reckon he'll have a point to prove for many reasons.

 

Dennis Wise is a C**t. No thanks.

[derry]

Wotte + Diamond= narrow rubbish + bemused players.

 

For God's sake why do you think we got relegated?

 

A traditional British manager, playing 4-4-2, a clearout of any players without the ability and character to take us forward.

 

We also need a reliable penalty taker and two wide players that can cross the ball from the byeline and put corners and free kicks into dangerous positions.

[Huffton]

Wotte is just another Poortvliet. Can only play one game and when that hets sussed has no plan B. Get rid ASAP.. Personally I would like an experienced (so not Ince, Keane etc) manager, but one with the ability and time to take us forward (Dowie, Magilton). And no ex-players with no coaching badges/managerial experience!

[captainchris]

Wotte + Diamond= narrow rubbish + bemused players.

 

For God's sake why do you think we got relegated?

 

A traditional British manager, playing 4-4-2, a clearout of any players without the ability and character to take us forward.

 

We also need a reliable penalty taker and two wide players that can cross the ball from the byeline and put corners and free kicks into dangerous positions.

 

May congratulate you on a very accurate appraisal of the Wotte option. The Diamond was completely out of place and none productive. If you play that narrow and bunched up you have no time on the ball and no one to pass to that's more than three feet away!!!!

Wotte could not see this. ALSO as soon as the opponents get the ball they pass it out wide where their winger runs into 50 or 60 yards of clear open spece with not a Saints player in sight, whereupon they have a free crossing opportunity to their runners who invaribly score because of our bypassed midfield and evidently uncoached defenders!!!!

 

NO THANKS MR WOTTE

[SaintRobbie]

Ok so we are in the mists of a new owner (hopefully). The issue of who the manager ill or should be comes up.

 

The question is would or should we give Wotte a chance.

 

On one note it is a nice idea of a full clean sweep with no trace of bad blood at all.

 

On the other. Wotte has proven in other countries that he is a good manager. I have to say our performances were to a degree a lot better than under JP (possibly would of been better if he was manager instead of JP in the first place). Players seem to like him and has a reasonable reputation.

 

The other plus side is that he always seems to talk positives about the club and the players (not forgetting the city)

 

So a full clean sweep or give the guy who seems to want to undo what has been done and also seems to be very passionate about the club, players and city the job for 1 season to see what he can do.

 

I have to say it's a hard one and I am glad I don't make the decision. But if I had to come off the comfort of the fence then unless another Nigel Pearson or a Daren ferguson (no not paul ince as he will drop us the second another club comes calling) is available then I would like to give the guy a chance.

 

I think we've done this to death... Wotte's death.

 

The result is that around 15% said keep him as I recall, the rest of us said get rid of the useless Dutch creep.

[PaulSaint]

Just tempt Tisdale from little ole Exeter, he can decide on his backroom staff?

[SaintRobbie]

Just tempt Tisdale from little ole Exeter, he can decide on his backroom staff?

 

Nah.. show some ambition... let's get Paul Ince.

[hypochondriac]

Nah.. show some ambition... let's get Paul Ince.

 

I don't think that's a lack of ambition at all. Ince has achieved very little.

[SaintRobbie]

I don't think that's a lack of ambition at all. Ince has achieved very little.

 

MK Dons is not very little. Selection for a Premiership team - ok didnt work out I accept it - isnt very little. Knowing the leagues isnt very little. BUT, best of all he may actually attract players in this tin pot league we now find ourselves.

 

An appointment of someone like Ince is a statement of intent. It says we have ambition and want to attract players IMHO.

 

But, regardless who we pick we need someone high profile for 6 years at least this time. Consistency is key for us. Lesson number 1 of Lowe****ups.

[SaintRobbie]

Whoever we appoint, sack them if they don't play 442 in their first game.

 

mmm I am sensing an aversion to foreign coach style here Adrian!

[NickG]

Just tempt Tisdale from little ole Exeter, he can decide on his backroom staff?

 

Nah.. show some ambition... let's get Paul Ince.

 

how do their achievements compare? We don't need to be a circus just well run

[Ponty]

Someone, anyone that the fans can get behind.

[SaintRobbie]

Someone, anyone that the fans can get behind.

 

Agreed. Higher the profile and demonstration therefore of ambition and intent the more chance of unity and support.

 

We need to really carefully select the next manager. Best available. Has to be the best and we have to pay for him. Simples. As LG3C has already stated on a recent thread... it IS the key appointment the new owners will make.

[SaintRobbie]

how do their achievements compare? We don't need to be a circus just well run

 

I dont see either of them as ringmasters although they certainly would be putting their head into a lions mouth!

 

Personally though Wotte has to go as I've never enjoyed circus clowns... something creepy about them dont you think?

[krissyboy31]

It's not so much that Wotte played the diamond or Poortvliet played 4-5-1 (or 4-3-3, apparently) but it was the fact that they played these systems every minute of every match. A decent manager/coach has to be flexible, from game to game and even in periods of the same game. It's called a plan B, plan C or plan Z!! A rigid 4-4-2, would be just as bad IMO. I do prefer 4-4-2 as a basic formation but if it's not working, then it needs to be changed. So in answer to the question, I would not retain Wotte.

[SaintRobbie]

It's not so much that Wotte played the diamond or Poortvliet played 4-5-1 (or 4-3-3, apparently) but it was the fact that they played these systems every minute of every match. A decent manager/coach has to be flexible, from game to game and even in periods of the same game. It's called a plan B, plan C or plan Z!! A rigid 4-4-2, would be just as bad IMO. I do prefer 4-4-2 as a basic formation but if it's not working, then it needs to be changed. So in answer to the question, I would not retain Wotte.

 

http://www.confusedas****.com

[hypochondriac]

MK Dons is not very little. Selection for a Premiership team - ok didnt work out I accept it - isnt very little. Knowing the leagues isnt very little. BUT, best of all he may actually attract players in this tin pot league we now find ourselves.

 

An appointment of someone like Ince is a statement of intent. It says we have ambition and want to attract players IMHO.

 

But, regardless who we pick we need someone high profile for 6 years at least this time. Consistency is key for us. Lesson number 1 of Lowe****ups.

 

Tony Adams was selected by a premiership team, as was Sturrock and Wigley. Doesn't make him good. MK Dons had loads of funds, something we are unlikely to have. He hasn't proved himself at all, certainly not to the extent tisdale has. No idea why you have an obsession with a high profile manager. No high profile manager would come here unless they have failed elsewhere. Only person I would really want is Boothroyd.

[SaintRobbie]

Tony Adams was selected by a premiership team, as was Sturrock and Wigley. Doesn't make him good. MK Dons had loads of funds, something we are unlikely to have. He hasn't proved himself at all, certainly not to the extent tisdale has. No idea why you have an obsession with a high profile manager. No high profile manager would come here unless they have failed elsewhere. Only person I would really want is Boothroyd.

 

 

I could accept Bootthroyd. But, high profile = statement of intent IMHO. Unknown = mmmm lets back him and if he fails sack him sort of feeling.

 

A high profile name may have more chance and trust from the fans when we consider we need a manager for 6 years at least now - we need some consistency. I think fans would be more patient with a manager with a decent reputation.

[hypochondriac]

how do their achievements compare? We don't need to be a circus just well run

 

I agree. I'm still struggling to see what Ince has done other than get MK Dons up from league 2 with a load of money. Tisdale did the same thing twice with hardly any money. Much better IMO.

[hypochondriac]

I could accept Bootthroyd. But, high profile = statement of intent IMHO. Unknown = mmmm lets back him and if he fails sack him sort of feeling.

 

A high profile name may have more chance and trust from the fans when we consider we need a manager for 6 years at least now - we need some consistency. I think fans would be more patient with a manager with a decent reputation.

 

I totally disagree. We need a manager who is the best man for the job. We are no longer one of the top clubs according to league position. Leicester went for Pearson not a "name" but did the job. Look at what Burley did for us, name manager but totally pants. If anything fans would expect a lot more from someone like Ince. They would have less patience and would expect him to achieve results. They would give him less of a chance.

[SaintRobbie]

I totally disagree. We need a manager who is the best man for the job. We are no longer one of the top clubs according to league position. Leicester went for Pearson not a "name" but did the job. Look at what Burley did for us, name manager but totally pants. If anything fans would expect a lot more from someone like Ince. They would have less patience and would expect him to achieve results. They would give him less of a chance.

 

Was that the same Burley who got us into the playoffs, achieving his requirement set by the baordroom and achieved the stat of being the most successful Saints manager per game in recent history? Not totally pants hypo. totally pished yes but not pants.

 

I hope the fans would expect alot from a high profile manager. Thats what you'd pay for. NP was already in credit when Leicester appointed him... he had established a decent reputation for himself.

 

I dont sign up to the idea of appointing a lesser manager as 'the fans would make it easier for him as they'd expect less' I'm afraid. I DEMAND success, just prepared to be patient over time with whoever we pick this time. Nah, we must get the best we can afford. That requires a man who can keep our best players this summer, attract new men, knows his stuff and inspires confidence throughout the club. I think we need an established name to do that. Its the old intangible feel good factor again.

[hypochondriac]

Was that the same Burley who got us into the playoffs, achieving his requirement set by the baordroom and achieved the stat of being the most successful Saints manager per game in recent history?

 

Was it? I never remember that being the case at the time. I know he set that as his own target but I certaintly can't remeber the board saying it. He only just scraped us in anyway and all that when we had spent the most money in the league (before January) and never got higher than third.

 

Not totally pants hypo. totally pished yes but not pants.

 

IMO he underperformed.

 

I hope the fans would expect alot from a high profile manager. Thats what you'd pay for.

 

It's unlikely we would have much money. I would rather go for an up and coming manager than one who has had one success in the lower leagues with a load of money and proved himself a failure in his big job.

 

NP was already in credit when Leicester appointed him... he had established a decent reputation for himself.

 

As has Tisdale in fact you could argue he has a better reputation than Nigel. He was recently featured in a sky sports article about the best manager below the football league I believe.

 

I dont sign up to the idea of appointing a lesser manager as 'the fans would make it easier for him as they'd expect less' I'm afraid. I DEMAND success, just prepared to be patient over time with whoever we pick this time.

 

Of course we want success but I believe fans would be more patient with a young hungry manager who has proved himself a success in the lower leagues and is ready to make the step up. Like Tisdale.

 

 

Nah, we must get the best we can afford.

 

And how is Ince better in that respect?

 

That requires a man who can keep our best players this summer,

 

If the money is here they will stay

 

attract new men, knows his stuff and inspires confidence throughout the club. I think we need an established name to do that. Its the old intangible feel good factor again.

 

I disagree and I don't get the obsession with a "name" manager. Lets get Tony Adams he's a "name". Shearer? MLT? No thanks. I'd much rather look for someone like Tisdale and I think a lot of supporters would feel the same. We don't want to employ someone on the strength of their name. If we did that with players and your theory was correct then BWP would be amazing. He isn't and your logic is seriously flawed.

[Forester]

I think the key is to have a good scout with knowledge of the lower divisions - we never seem to pick up promising and ambitious players from lower divisions unlike Mick McCarthy for example.

 

I believe Wotte improved us, crucially knows the players and we could do a lot worse. As has been suggested, new owners frequently have theor own ideas

[The Fat Controller]

Clean sweep = KEEGAN

[Professor]

I think we've done this to death... Wotte's death.

 

The result is that around 15% said keep him as I recall, the rest of us said get rid of the useless Dutch creep.

I usually ignore this poster, but the level of abuse provokes a response. It is interesting to speculate what people of this mindset would have said about Pearson if (1) Lowe had appointed him and (2) relegation had happened anyway. This name-calling could be dismissed as childish and part of the blame culture if it were not so deeply unpleasant. It is a matter of regret that people using this kind of language follow the team I have supported for 50 years.

[SNSUN]

I'll take any manager that has friendly connections with Man U. Could do with a few of their kids...

[lordswoodsaints]

Perhaps there is a role for him at the club but not as manager.

[JustMike]

Peter Reid or Aidy Boothroyd

[Foxstone]

The best we can afford please.

 

Tisdale is still learning his trade and this will be his first season in League 1 so he does not have that experience right now I'm afraid.

 

We are not currently big enough for Ince's current aspirations I suspect so I would forget him too.

 

Boothroyd or more preferably Cotterill would be the best shouts.

[NickG]

what have they achieved? genuine question as not looked up their records.

[NickG]

I disagree and I don't get the obsession with a "name" manager. Lets get Tony Adams he's a "name". Shearer? MLT? No thanks. I'd much rather look for someone like Tisdale and I think a lot of supporters would feel the same. We don't want to employ someone on the strength of their name. If we did that with players and your theory was correct then BWP would be amazing. He isn't and your logic is seriously flawed.

 

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=12738

[WestSaint]

Wotte + Diamond= narrow rubbish + bemused players.

 

For God's sake why do you think we got relegated?

 

A traditional British manager, playing 4-4-2, a clearout of any players without the ability and character to take us forward.

 

We also need a reliable penalty taker and two wide players that can cross the ball from the byeline and put corners and free kicks into dangerous positions.

 

Exactly - We don't have time for the same mistakes to be repeated from last season. We won't be starting afresh if we retain the same manager. The whole dutch experiment of which he was a part of all season is a proven failure so why on earth would we wan't for it to continue. Are we masochists!!

[Foxstone]

Boothroyd and Cotterill both possess a reasonable track record with working with younger players.

 

Cotterill did a fantastic job with Cheltenham Town although did not enjoy quite such an illustrious career with Burnley ,although I think he won as many as he lost during his time there.

 

Boothroyd has only managed Watford, but took them to the Prem above all expectations at the time.

 

Both are quite young and are easily good enough to successfully manage in D1.

Edited 11 May, 2009 by Foxstone

[Big John]

Peter Reid or Aidy Boothroyd

 

 

How much and with what incentive could we prise Reidy from Thailand?

 

Although, I grant you that he is not doing too well out there, it must be a nice lifestyle and you would need some pretty good in-between men to pull it off.

 

Another plus is that I am pretty sure that his brother is an agent. Where's that list of registered football agents?

[SNSUN]

How much and with what incentive could we prise Reidy from Thailand?

 

Although, I grant you that he is not doing too well out there, it must be a nice lifestyle and you would need some pretty good in-between men to pull it off.

 

In Thailand, I bet it's very easy to find some pretty, good, "in-between" men to "pull it off"! :-D

[Smirking_Saint]

Think an absolutely ideal man for the job would have been young darren ferguson (good pedigree and hopefully links with dad) however with Posh's promotion i know i am only dreaming.

 

Wotte had an ok start but feel towards the end he was exposed especially with his narrow diamond game (and weak full backs that could have made it work). He made a good go for it but now we need a new start followed by stability.

 

We need someone in to stabilize and be in for the long haul i am affraid, lets go continue or tradition of the manager merry-go-round.

 

And no, it does not have to be the rigid 4-4-2 but just needs to work and needs a manager to recognise when it does not. Tisdale would be a good shout but how long until he reaches his level ?? (not saying he will but it will be a risk)

[dubai_phil]

Chill guys, it has all been decided, next season will of course be the Dream Team of Dubai Phil & Nickh.

 

Sartorial elegance, motivational teamtalks, subtle tactical shifts and substitutions and of course being able to do any and everything needed to get a result. Oh and of course the whole post match televised interviews - boy we were both SO good and of course SO modest in victory and gracious in defeat.

 

What more do we really need? After all we are now both more experienced at managing in a big match situation than JP ever was...

 

What's more with some work with the coaching teams we might have found a couple of useful players on Thursday

[hamster]

Chill guys, it has all been decided, next season will of course be? the Dream Team of Dubai Phil & Nickh.

 

Well, which one of you is replacing Woggy and which one the tea lady?

 

Good trip Phil?

[Barry the Badger]

 

An appointment of someone like Ince is a statement of intent. It says we have ambition and want to attract players IMHO.

 

But, regardless who we pick we need someone high profile for 6 years at least this time. Consistency is key for us. Lesson number 1 of Lowe****ups.

 

 

Do you really think Ince would stick around for 6 years?

 

Part of the problem with having a 'high profile' manager is that as soon as we start to get any success the premiership clubs will come calling and off they will go.

[OldNick]

Chill guys, it has all been decided, next season will of course be the Dream Team of Dubai Phil & Nickh.

 

Sartorial elegance, motivational teamtalks, subtle tactical shifts and substitutions and of course being able to do any and everything needed to get a result. Oh and of course the whole post match televised interviews - boy we were both SO good and of course SO modest in victory and gracious in defeat.

 

What more do we really need? After all we are now both more experienced at managing in a big match situation than JP ever was...

 

What's more with some work with the coaching teams we might have found a couple of useful players on Thursday

I think you have got the right format there Phil. It is the good cop bad cop thing. Phil the Mr Nice Guy who then does the silent assination by using any trick possible to get the result and Nick big mouth who rallies the team with banter team spirit and encouragement. It would be a good combination.

You may have done the modest in victory but im afraid i dont think I did the gracious in defeat, Im looking forward to see how my post match interview comes across after the game. A little peeved at the ref /tactics used by my counterpart etc etc. not a sign of congratulation to the victors, just a solid defence of my team.

[OldNick]

Well, which one of you is replacing Woggy and which one the tea lady?

 

Good trip Phil?

We are like Bodie and Doyle ,The Professionals. I have alreadsy earmarked you for a role we need a new janitor and after 6 months if you are good you will get a toilet brush and some gloves.

[dubai_phil]

Well, which one of you is replacing Woggy and which one the tea lady?

 

Good trip Phil?

 

The plane took off and it landed again - that always makes it a good trip:p

 

But yes, there was only about 5 people in the whole biz class bit (hence their special airmiles offer I think) so got served to death from the whole champoo before takeoff and a nice meal and really good wine passed out and found myself over the top of Baghdad - eek - anyway got past there and slept like a drain when finally got home!

 

Loved the photos when I finally saw them this morning - brilliant job Minty.

 

How's everyone's aches and pains? I have to admit I had some on Friday morning - probably the large whiskies in Reflex at the after after party (how horrid is THAT place? Makes our Rock Bottom seem full of thin chicks!)

 

Oh and what is that stuff they serve at Chick Inn? - was supposed to be KFC clone & chips but was bleah..........

 

Oh and on the structuring front, we won't have a tea lady next year - more a BullFrog babe