Why No One Wants us

[hughieslastminutegoal]

I was listening to a business journo close to the new Dubai owner of Pompey who said he was buying them because they had much better scope for growth, and that he’d been looking around for a club for quite some time. He apparently was prepared to buy Newcastle for 200m some time ago but Ashley wanted 400m.

 

This begs the question, why were Saints not on his horizon. Last year with the right buyer we were a season away from the Premiere League, and he was looking to buy a club then. He’d have got us for 50m tops, probably a lot less. And we have a stadium, not a word you could use to describe Fratton Park.

 

So why pay quite a sizeable sum for Portsmouth now when he could have got us for much, much less, still liquid, a year ago?

 

1) We were CCC not Prem – but he could have pretty well bought promotion

2) We weren’t high profile enough – Pompey can’t really be described as high profile, and we had a 30 year recent history of top division football

 

Turning back to growth potential, what have Pompey got that we haven’t?

 

Is our stadium in the wrong place? – Probably. Far from good transport links, and stuck in a dead-looking area with no scope for quality non-industrial development.

 

Is Portsmouth a more attractive place than Southampton? – Definitely yes. Up to say 10 years ago I’d always have said Southampton over Pompey, but not any longer.

 

Portsmouth has had a vision for the development of the harbour area far beyond what our planners have managed to come up with for Southampton. They built a forward-looking Spinnaker Tower, placed to attract attention as part of an integrated harbour development, marina and shopping. We on the other hand can’t seem to get past a tin-foil mock up of a spitfire stuck on the end of a jetty separated from just about everything, the closest shopping being West Quay with it’s special view over roads, surface car parks and tin boxes. If you are lucky you might be able to see a cruise liner funnel.

 

Portsmouth as a city attracts far more attention than Southampton, which has no focus, no integrated development plan, and has pretty much thrown away the chance it once had to come up with a coherent strategy for linking the retail areas with the waterfront. We have great central parks, but they are increasingly becoming isolated, with the town centre increasingly turning its back towards them.

 

The City Council are still coming up with plans that do things like put a heritage centre in the Civic Centre, when clearly that would be far better to build one where it can help integrate the waterfront (where our heritage lies) with the shopping area. We still want the arts centre where Tyrell& Green was, maintaining and accentuating the strung-out shape of the town.

We have done little to expose and highlight the town walls, or integrate our old buildings into developments easily visible to the visitor. The wider West Quay area is just a visual mess. John Lewis our flagship store has its restaurant view murdered by an enormous blue box.

 

That’s why Southampton Football Club isn’t an investment opportunity for the big players. It’s tainted by the lack of ambition and short sightedness of the entire city.

Edited 29 May, 2009 by hughieslastminutegoal

[Killers Knee]

at last, someone gets it.....

[Gingeletiss]

I was listening to a business journo close to the new Dubai owner of Pompey who said he was buying them because they had much better scope for growth, and that he’d been looking around for a club for quite some time. He apparently was prepared to buy Newcastle for 200m some time ago but Ashley wanted 400m.

 

This begs the question, why were Saints not on his horizon. Last year with the right buyer we were a season away from the Premiere League, and he was looking to buy a club then. He’d have got us for 50m tops, probably a lot less. And we have a stadium, not a word you could use to describe Fratton Park.

 

So why pay quite a sizeable sum for Portsmouth now when he could have got us for much, much less, still liquid, a year ago?

 

1) We were CCC not Prem – but he could have pretty well bought promotion

2) We weren’t high profile enough – Pompey can’t really be described as high profile, and we had a 30 year recent history of top division football

 

Turning back to growth potential, what have Pompey got that we haven’t?

 

Is our stadium in the wrong place? – Probably. Far from good transport links, and stuck in a dead-looking area with no scope for quality non-industrial development.

 

Is Portsmouth a more attractive place than Southampton? – Definitely yes. Up to say 10 years ago I’d always have said Southampton over Pompey, but not any longer.

 

Portsmouth has had a vision for the development of the harbour area far beyond what our planners have managed to come up with for Southampton. They built a forward-looking Spinnaker Tower, placed to attract attention as part of an integrated harbour development, marina and shopping. We on the other hand can’t seem to get past a tin-foil mock up of a spitfire stuck on the end of a jetty separated from just about everything, the closest shopping being West Quay with it’s special view over roads, surface car parks and tin boxes. If you are lucky you might be able to see a cruise liner funnel.

 

Portsmouth as a city attracts far more attention than Southampton, which has no focus, no integrated development plan, and has pretty much thrown away the chance it once had to come up with a coherent strategy for linking the retail areas with the waterfront. We have great central parks, but they are increasingly becoming isolated, with the town centre increasingly turning its back towards them.

 

The City Council are still coming up with plans that do things like put a heritage centre in the Civic Centre, when clearly that would be far better to build one where it can help integrate the waterfront (where our heritage lies) with the shopping area. We still want the arts centre where Tyrell& Green was, maintaining and accentuating the strung-out shape of the town.

We have done little to expose and highlight the town walls, or integrate our old buildings into developments easily visible to the visitor. The wider West Quay area is just a visual mess. John Lewis our flagship store has its restaurant view murdered by an enormous blue box.

 

That’s why Southampton Football Club isn’t an investment opportunity for the big players. It’s tainted by the lack of ambition and short sightedness of the entire city.

 

Good piece............I agree.

[maddog]

Blimey a sensible post on the forum ha ha

 

Excellent piece and i agree with it all. Southampton town centre is a joke and when you think about all the cruise ships we have it was crying out for a Gun wharf style development! People already come to view the ships anyway so make the most out of it!

 

Excellent peice though and all true, as much as i hate to say it we need to get used to being 2nd place to pompey for quite a while. Its only a matter of time before they get a new stadium and then there wont be a lot of difference between us.

[Mr saint]

I've always thought the location of SMS was pretty good. 10-15 minute walk from town and Southampton Central railway station. Links by the M27 and International airport not too far away for when we eventually reach the Champions League.

[hughieslastminutegoal]

I've always thought the location of SMS was pretty good. 10-15 minute walk from town and Southampton Central railway station. Links by the M27 and International airport not too far away for when we eventually reach the Champions League.

 

Glad to see you at leat maintain a sense of humour.

[Scummer]

Disagree. You people put the city of Southampton down far too much. It's streets ahead of Portsmouth in many areas.

[Window Cleaner]

I'd wager our main problem is poor revenues,Southampton is not a "rich" city.

I believe average salaries are way below the national average and way way below those for the South East.Too many high mortgages and low incomes make cash available very limited.Too many concessions in the crowd make-up.

[The9]

I was listening to a business journo close to the new Dubai owner of Pompey who said he was buying them because they had much better scope for growth, and that he’d been looking around for a club for quite some time. He apparently was prepared to buy Newcastle for 200m some time ago but Ashley wanted 400m.

 

This begs the question, why were Saints not on his horizon. Last year with the right buyer we were a season away from the Premiere League, and he was looking to buy a club then. He’d have got us for 50m tops, probably a lot less. And we have a stadium, not a word you could use to describe Fratton Park.

 

So why pay quite a sizeable sum for Portsmouth now when he could have got us for much, much less, still liquid, a year ago?

 

1) We were CCC not Prem – but he could have pretty well bought promotion

2) We weren’t high profile enough – Pompey can’t really be described as high profile, and we had a 30 year recent history of top division football

 

Turning back to growth potential, what have Pompey got that we haven’t?

 

Is our stadium in the wrong place? – Probably. Far from good transport links, and stuck in a dead-looking area with no scope for quality non-industrial development.

 

Is Portsmouth a more attractive place than Southampton? – Definitely yes. Up to say 10 years ago I’d always have said Southampton over Pompey, but not any longer.

 

Portsmouth has had a vision for the development of the harbour area far beyond what our planners have managed to come up with for Southampton. They built a forward-looking Spinnaker Tower, placed to attract attention as part of an integrated harbour development, marina and shopping. We on the other hand can’t seem to get past a tin-foil mock up of a spitfire stuck on the end of a jetty separated from just about everything, the closest shopping being West Quay with it’s special view over roads, surface car parks and tin boxes. If you are lucky you might be able to see a cruise liner funnel.

 

Portsmouth as a city attracts far more attention than Southampton, which has no focus, no integrated development plan, and has pretty much thrown away the chance it once had to come up with a coherent strategy for linking the retail areas with the waterfront. We have great central parks, but they are increasingly becoming isolated, with the town centre increasingly turning its back towards them.

 

The City Council are still coming up with plans that do things like put a heritage centre in the Civic Centre, when clearly that would be far better to build one where it can help integrate the waterfront (where our heritage lies) with the shopping area. We still want the arts centre where Tyrell& Green was, maintaining and accentuating the strung-out shape of the town.

We have done little to expose and highlight the town walls, or integrate our old buildings into developments easily visible to the visitor. The wider West Quay area is just a visual mess. John Lewis our flagship store has its restaurant view murdered by an enormous blue box.

 

That’s why Southampton Football Club isn’t an investment opportunity for the big players. It’s tainted by the lack of ambition and short sightedness of the entire city.

 

Nah. Extremely rich man doesn't have to bother investing, already made his money and wants top-level plaything off-the-shelf. Has bought a sh1tty looking one cos it gives him a chance to do it up a bit without having to run the risk of them never being in the Prem, and so his multibillionaire mates will be a bit more impressed than if he just bought Man U, cos where's the fun in that ?

 

Nothing to do with Southampton City at all. After all, you don't hear Leyton Orient complaining that no arab sheikhs have bought them because London's not forward thinking enough...

 

...actually, this place is full of whingers who don't appreciate what they've got. We might be about to get a lesson in that...

[paulwantsapint]

The problem with southampton city centre is that nobody in planning ever gave a toss about development

~Why didn't somebody offer saints the land around West Quay about 35 years ago as it would of had great transport links & forced fans to spend cash on high street

~By doing so the Old West Quay development would have been pushed closer to the IOW ferry terminal

~Which would have pushed the large new shopping developments nearer to Cruise liners with pressure on ABP to spend money on a proper development of facilities

 

BUT as I said nobody gives a toss & we end up with a dying high street

[saintbletch]

You are probably right about the potential for development of non-football related business, but I think you're looking too deeply into the long-term development issues. The answer to your questions is that we don't have a Premiership franchise.

 

Why did the Sheikh not buy Pompey before the closed season? He needed to ensure they were a Premiership club.

 

You say we were only one season away from the Premiership but in reality that's a lottery. Look at Sheffield Utd this year. Well managed, well run club, well motivated team failed in the lottery of the play offs.

 

If you're a billionaire Sheikh looking for a Premiership trophy to create a bit of arab-banter amongst your other football-following and club-owning mates, then you buy a current Premiership team IMO.

 

A Premiership "franchise" is the deciding factor.

[INFLUENCED.COM]

~Why didn't somebody offer saints the land around West Quay about 35 years ago as

 

Not 35 years ago but from memory a feasibility study was carried out on that site for Saints, maybe one of our 'older'(more informed) posters could confirm

[Handyman]

Transport links? We could have had our very own Railway Station on the Stadium's doorstep, but no one deemed it important enough! I thought it was of vital importance to encourage fans who just didn't want to go through the hassle of trying to find parking space or walking a long way to the stadium. Also away fans would become aware of the convenience of travelling to St Mary's as well as the obvious advantage of not having the more boisterous type of fan rampaging through our city! I wonder how many other stadiums have a railway line with it's obvious advantages, so close?

[INFLUENCED.COM]

We have Ocean Village and Leisure world neither of which rocking, if someone could create a link between the two incorporating town Quay, Mayflower Park with pubs, clubs, casinos, hotels it could be our very own Vegas Strip and somewhere to spot our players on a regular basis !

[Dicko]

It's simply a case of Premier League football.

 

These Arabs don't want to be associated with a club 10 points adrift of league 1

Fratton is one of the worst parts of Pompey, and their ground is the worst in Premier League (apart from Burnley perhaps)

 

It has nothing to do with West Quay or the council's vision for the future

[Scummer]

Transport links? We could have had our very own Railway Station on the Stadium's doorstep, but no one deemed it important enough! I thought it was of vital importance to encourage fans who just didn't want to go through the hassle of trying to find parking space or walking a long way to the stadium. Also away fans would become aware of the convenience of travelling to St Mary's as well as the obvious advantage of not having the more boisterous type of fan rampaging through our city! I wonder how many other stadiums have a railway line with it's obvious advantages, so close?

 

They run a free bus from Southampton Central to the ground, it's not exactly arduous.

 

A station would have cost a fortune.

[kpturner]

I was listening to a business journo close to the new Dubai owner of Pompey.....

I seriously doubt the guy is cognisant of any of these dubious "facts" - all he can see are the words "Premier League". I would also doubt he has ever seen Fratton Park or the current training facilities, and the previous owner would also probably skirted over the fact that he will be buying a loss making entity of enormous proportions. Sounds a bit more like an impulse buy to get a PL club that appears to be relatively cheap. If he is worth £300m (sic) he'll probably blow that in about 4-5 seasons and wish he had stayed out of it. :-)

[Delmary]

Disagree. You people put the city of Southampton down far too much. It's streets ahead of Portsmouth in many areas.

Apart from old Portsmouth the rest of the city is a dump compared to Southampton. It has some of the most economically and socially deprived areas within the country. Development opportunities are limited because it's land locked.

Back in 2007 Southampton was listed as the third fasting growing city in the uk in terms of economic and population growth. We've got a great port (owned by Dubia World) which boast some of the biggest and best cruise liners in the world, fantastic shopping facilities (Gunwharf is crap by comparison), great night life, Southampton City airport, a population of 230K (50k more than Portsmouth), one of the biggest and best city university teaching hospitals within Europe, renowned academic institutions (Southampton University), excellent diving centre and lots of open space for sporting activities. The list is endless. It's the best city in the South. Be proud!

[slickmick]

Can you tell me why you think the siting of St Marys is in a worse location,compared to Fratton Park ?

 

I agree that the way they have developed the docks and intergrated it with the sea front has put them light years ahead of us. But beyond the water frontage is nothing but a sh1t hole. The whole town is just a mass of tiny terraced houses that have no frontage. You can step out your front door and into your car in one step.

Status in that dump depends on how many pitbulls you own, that doesn't include their tattooed women.

 

One thing we have that they will never have is class.

[Wes Tender]

You are probably right about the potential for development of non-football related business, but I think you're looking too deeply into the long-term development issues. The answer to your questions is that we don't have a Premiership franchise.

 

Why did the Sheikh not buy Pompey before the closed season? He needed to ensure they were a Premiership club.

 

You say we were only one season away from the Premiership but in reality that's a lottery. Look at Sheffield Utd this year. Well managed, well run club, well motivated team failed in the lottery of the play offs.

 

If you're a billionaire Sheikh looking for a Premiership trophy to create a bit of arab-banter amongst your other football-following and club-owning mates, then you buy a current Premiership team IMO.

 

A Premiership "franchise" is the deciding factor.

 

Spot on. The comparison between the two cities is a complete red herring, as Portsmouth is the biggest **** hole in the South. Saying that there is no development potential along the waterside is total rubbish. The development can start around the old TV studio site and continue along the river all the way to Ocean Village and on the other side of the Woolston Bridge. All that industry along the river bank can relocate if somebody had the money to develop it. The long term future favours Southampton, as Portsmouth relies on the Navy which is in decline, whereas the passenger liner business and container port operations mean that Southampton is increasing its business. Southampton also has better transport links to other major UK destinations than Portsmouth too, via the M27, M3, A34 to the M4 and M40. As an island, Portsmouth has used virtually all its land and outward development is hampered by Leigh Park, Paulgrove, Cosham, which are also holes.

 

Agreed we need to do something to update Ocean village, but otherwise, he city is a far more attractive place than Portsmouth, with better parks, better historic buildings, better shops, etc.

[ShirleySaint]

The problem with southampton city centre is that nobody in planning ever gave a toss about development

~Why didn't somebody offer saints the land around West Quay about 35 years ago as it would of had great transport links & forced fans to spend cash on high street

~By doing so the Old West Quay development would have been pushed closer to the IOW ferry terminal

~Which would have pushed the large new shopping developments nearer to Cruise liners with pressure on ABP to spend money on a proper development of facilities

 

BUT as I said nobody gives a toss & we end up with a dying high street

 

Just after Saints won the cup there was a proposal to build a new stadium near dock gate 10 (on the land between the gate and the railway line). The board at the time didn't have the bottle to go through with it. It would have meant either putting their own money into the club or moving aside for someone who would. They didn't want to put their own money in and wouldn't give up their positions as directors, so the club remained at the Dell.

[Gingeletiss]

The problem with southampton city centre is that nobody in planning ever gave a toss about development

~Why didn't somebody offer saints the land around West Quay about 35 years ago as it would of had great transport links & forced fans to spend cash on high street

~By doing so the Old West Quay development would have been pushed closer to the IOW ferry terminal

~Which would have pushed the large new shopping developments nearer to Cruise liners with pressure on ABP to spend money on a proper development of facilities

 

BUT as I said nobody gives a toss & we end up with a dying high street

 

Hush hush!!!........'77..........Lido........Toys are us.

[eelpie]

I was listening to a business journo close to the new Dubai owner of Pompey who said he was buying them because they had much better scope for growth, and that he’d been looking around for a club for quite some time. He apparently was prepared to buy Newcastle for 200m some time ago but Ashley wanted 400m.

 

This begs the question, why were Saints not on his horizon. Last year with the right buyer we were a season away from the Premiere League, and he was looking to buy a club then. He’d have got us for 50m tops, probably a lot less. And we have a stadium, not a word you could use to describe Fratton Park.

 

So why pay quite a sizeable sum for Portsmouth now when he could have got us for much, much less, still liquid, a year ago?

 

1) We were CCC not Prem – but he could have pretty well bought promotion

2) We weren’t high profile enough – Pompey can’t really be described as high profile, and we had a 30 year recent history of top division football

 

Turning back to growth potential, what have Pompey got that we haven’t?

 

Is our stadium in the wrong place? – Probably. Far from good transport links, and stuck in a dead-looking area with no scope for quality non-industrial development.

 

Is Portsmouth a more attractive place than Southampton? – Definitely yes. Up to say 10 years ago I’d always have said Southampton over Pompey, but not any longer.

 

Portsmouth has had a vision for the development of the harbour area far beyond what our planners have managed to come up with for Southampton. They built a forward-looking Spinnaker Tower, placed to attract attention as part of an integrated harbour development, marina and shopping. We on the other hand can’t seem to get past a tin-foil mock up of a spitfire stuck on the end of a jetty separated from just about everything, the closest shopping being West Quay with it’s special view over roads, surface car parks and tin boxes. If you are lucky you might be able to see a cruise liner funnel.

 

Portsmouth as a city attracts far more attention than Southampton, which has no focus, no integrated development plan, and has pretty much thrown away the chance it once had to come up with a coherent strategy for linking the retail areas with the waterfront. We have great central parks, but they are increasingly becoming isolated, with the town centre increasingly turning its back towards them.

 

The City Council are still coming up with plans that do things like put a heritage centre in the Civic Centre, when clearly that would be far better to build one where it can help integrate the waterfront (where our heritage lies) with the shopping area. We still want the arts centre where Tyrell& Green was, maintaining and accentuating the strung-out shape of the town.

We have done little to expose and highlight the town walls, or integrate our old buildings into developments easily visible to the visitor. The wider West Quay area is just a visual mess. John Lewis our flagship store has its restaurant view murdered by an enormous blue box.

 

That’s why Southampton Football Club isn’t an investment opportunity for the big players. It’s tainted by the lack of ambition and short sightedness of the entire city.

 

So successive councils deserve a lot of blame for lack of vision. I agree.

[Gingeletiss]

Spot on. The comparison between the two cities is a complete red herring, as Portsmouth is the biggest **** hole in the South. Saying that there is no development potential along the waterside is total rubbish. The development can start around the old TV studio site and continue along the river all the way to Ocean Village and on the other side of the Woolston Bridge. All that industry along the river bank can relocate if somebody had the money to develop it. The long term future favours Southampton, as Portsmouth relies on the Navy which is in decline, whereas the passenger liner business and container port operations mean that Southampton is increasing its business. Southampton also has better transport links to other major UK destinations than Portsmouth too, via the M27, M3, A34 to the M4 and M40. As an island, Portsmouth has used virtually all its land and outward development is hampered by Leigh Park, Paulgrove, Cosham, which are also holes.

 

Agreed we need to do something to update Ocean village, but otherwise, he city is a far more attractive place than Portsmouth, with better parks, better historic buildings, better shops, etc.

 

Some points I agree with.........alas, you are so of base with the above (highlighted).

 

As to Woolston, I agree, they could do something magical over there, but the plans are for more flats...........THAT is what is wrong in Southampton, no tourist attraction. Given the cruise boats, I find it laughable. For example, we could of bought the QE2, and turned it into a hotel complex. We could of petitioned, to have HMS Southampton, moored at Mayflower.

 

There was plans for West Quay, Ice rink...Bowling Ally etc, what do we get, another F***ing shop. What did we get in Ocean village, yep, Houses and flats.

[saintsdan]

The problem with southampton city centre is that nobody in planning ever gave a toss about development

~Why didn't somebody offer saints the land around West Quay about 35 years ago as it would of had great transport links & forced fans to spend cash on high street

~By doing so the Old West Quay development would have been pushed closer to the IOW ferry terminal

~Which would have pushed the large new shopping developments nearer to Cruise liners with pressure on ABP to spend money on a proper development of facilities

 

BUT as I said nobody gives a toss & we end up with a dying high street

 

1.) I'm fairly confident they did. I stand to be corrected but my understanding is that the club were offered the site that Toys r Us is on back in the 80s but they turned it down.

 

2.)Quite possibly, yes.

 

3.)You've spotted the major problem Southampton and its planners have in that statement. The major obstacle with developing the waterfront is, and always has been, ABP. ABP have for many years been difficult to work with and aren't very accommodating of the council's plans for the waterfront. Putting pressure on them to spend money on a proper development of facilites as you suggest is unlikely to work because they won't put money into facilities that don't benefit them directly i.e. facilities for passengers and freight coning through the port itself.

 

Southampton also suffers because it is not a 'rich' city is indicated by sommebody above. While it has some wealthy areas it also supports 20,000 students and a particularly large number of council estates given the size of the city. Additionally it is expected to provide services and facilities for a far larger populationthan pays council tax to it. The populations of the waterside, Totton, Eastleigh, Hedge End, Botley, Hamble, Netley, Locks Heath and Park Gate amongst others do not pay any coucil tax to the city but expect it to provide the facilities they would expect from the regional centre. In fact it would be interesting to know how many of the people who have criticised the city council and particularly the lack of investment in the sorts of facilities discussed here, both on this thread and many previously, actually live in the ity itself and pay tax to it.

 

I accept that the city coucil does not always help itself, being such a politicised authority strategy is all to often short term and constantly changing long term. I agree we have a wealth of heritage, the parks and an extensive waterfront that could be better exposed, supported and developed for the benefit of the city as a whole and as someone with an archaeology degree and a keen interest in the cities waterfront and heritage I would love to see the sorts of facilities discussed in the original post. However, the city does have a number of issues that limit its ability to provide the facilities we desire that a lot of people just don't consider.

 

Apologies for moving away from the original questions about the club itself but this is a subject that iritates me every time this sort of thread comes up.

[Alanh]

I don't live in Southampton and never have so don't have the same attachment to the city that many on here do, however I think the OP is completely wrong about why Portsmouth would be of greater interest than us. The simple reason is because they are in the Prem and therefore have a guaranteed income of £30M a year from Sky. Provided they get the right manager in there is every chance that they will maintain that status given that every year prety much 1 or 2 of the promoted teams goes back down again so the chances of relegation are less. Also, the chance to build a newer bigger stadium in Portsmouth might offer the chance to increase matchday revenues. Saints are a project which needs building, does not offer the guaranteed Sky income from being outside the Prem, and has already got the stadium so there is less opportunity for growth. With the right benefactor (like the one Hull got) we might get back in the Prem in the next 5 - 10 years and then we'll be prime candidates for the sort of takeover that Portsmouth are looking at.

[Wes Tender]

Some points I agree with.........alas, you are so of base with the above (highlighted).

 

As to Woolston, I agree, they could do something magical over there, but the plans are for more flats...........THAT is what is wrong in Southampton, no tourist attraction. Given the cruise boats, I find it laughable. For example, we could of bought the QE2, and turned it into a hotel complex. We could of petitioned, to have HMS Southampton, moored at Mayflower.

 

There was plans for West Quay, Ice rink...Bowling Ally etc, what do we get, another F***ing shop. What did we get in Ocean village, yep, Houses and flats.

 

Apart from the Factory outlet shops at Gunwharf and the restaurants, the rest of that development is flats too. The fact that the Gunwharf site was HMS Vernon Navy base just highlights the decline of the Royal Navy. When that declines further, they might develop on those other bases, but where would the strategic importance of Portsmouth otherwise develop? Even its business as a ferry port is threatened by cheap flights and we have an international airport on our doorstep. Looking longer term, it is thought that the Fawley Oil refinery will close within a decade and there is massive potential for development on that side of the river too.

[jasoneuelllfanclub]

I actually live in West Portsmouth (not by choice) but born and bred in Southampton. I have lived in Skateland for 18 months now and I can assure you that Southampton has nothing to be envious of apart from Skates being in Prem with Billionaire owner. In terms of the actual cities Southampton is far more attractive. Both cities have run down areas with Portsmouth having far more grotty areas then nice areas believe me. I have lived in Millbrook, Maybush and Sholing so I have a pretty good knowledge of Southampton as a whole. The Spinnaker Tower is not that impressive. I have stupidly paid £7 to go up there. What waste of time and money. Gun Wharf is ok but parking is expensive and a nightmare to get into. Southsea is something Soton does not have. If they spruced up Weston Shore then we could have something along the same lines.

 

As for culture Southampton wins hands down. P'mouth has no culture and the population of P'mouth are mainly thugs IMO. The reason I live there is because of my partner coming from Portchester. Houses are too pricey there so we had to buy a house just down the road which unfortunately takes us into Skateville.

 

Since living in P'mouth I have been pulled over 4 times by Police for random searches, my fathers dog has been attacked by another dog which was deliberately let of its lead to go and attack my dog, my partner was driving along at night (10pm) and some thug walked out in the middle of the road caused her to stop then ran up to her car and booted the wing arch with steel toe capped boots. Never had these problems when living in Soton even when living opposite Millbrook Towers.

 

Believe me Soton is a great city and definately the pride of the South:)

[Gingeletiss]

Apart from the Factory outlet shops at Gunwharf and the restaurants, the rest of that development is flats too. The fact that the Gunwharf site was HMS Vernon Navy base just highlights the decline of the Royal Navy. When that declines further, they might develop on those other bases, but where would the strategic importance of Portsmouth otherwise develop? Even its business as a ferry port is threatened by cheap flights and we have an international airport on our doorstep. Looking longer term, it is thought that the Fawley Oil refinery will close within a decade and there is massive potential for development on that side of the river too.

 

 

Agreed, but when ABP wanted to develop land, they owned, a few left wing PC minded, woolly jumper knitting individuals, scuppered that deal. Since then, 3 major container company's have pulled out of Southampton, and more may follow.

 

I also agree about Gunwharf, but IMO, they have got the balance almost right.

[Frank's cousin]

I think its totally about having a PREM club -which is great for them right now as it will stablise their balance sheet... but its also shows that the guy is more interested in owning aplaything than in tehe actual club...does that matter to fans if it provids scope for investment? not to most, to some it will but they will be in the minority.

 

As for us its our lowly position and taht puts off these kind of investors - but that is where we should be more attractive to the the more middle level of millionnaire - someone who recognisise that teh deal could be good as an investment - think about it by the club for 15 mil spend 20 mil over 3 years supporting the playing squad and that should mean CCC playoffs at least - the point at which we suddenly would be attractive to becomming another rich mans plaything - if that what we want... I am not envious of Portsmouth because we simply cant control what happens at other clubs - if it works out for them, sure we are miles behind, but it things change - Personally would like to see MORE clubs in teh South start to impact on the norths stronghold...

[londonsaint1604]

He bought pompey because they are in the premiership whereas we were in the championship. I doubt he has even heard of the championship.

[hughieslastminutegoal]

Nah. Extremely rich man doesn't have to bother investing, already made his money and wants top-level plaything off-the-shelf. Has bought a sh1tty looking one cos it gives him a chance to do it up a bit without having to run the risk of them never being in the Prem, and so his multibillionaire mates will be a bit more impressed than if he just bought Man U, cos where's the fun in that ?

 

Nothing to do with Southampton City at all. After all, you don't hear Leyton Orient complaining that no arab sheikhs have bought them because London's not forward thinking enough...

 

...actually, this place is full of whingers who don't appreciate what they've got. We might be about to get a lesson in that...

 

But that isn't what he said. The bloke who bought Pompey specifically said he wanted growth potential, not a plaything. That's out of the horses mouth.

[kpturner]

He bought pompey because they are in the premiership whereas we were in the championship. I doubt he has even heard of the championship.

I think you may have an over-inflated view of our league status at the time the deal was done (i.e. yesterday).

[Big Bad Bob]

But that isn't what he said. The bloke who bought Pompey specifically said he wanted growth potential, not a plaything. That's out of the horses mouth.

 

He wants to build it up and then sell it on for a HUGE profit.

 

How much has he paid for Pompey?? ~£50M maybe (I don't know)

 

How much is a tinpot outfit like Newcastle being bandied about for??

[hughieslastminutegoal]

Can you tell me why you think the siting of St Marys is in a worse location,compared to Fratton Park ?.

 

--I didnt say it was in a worse position, but we've built ours and they haven't built their new one yet.

 

I agree that the way they have developed the docks and intergrated it with the sea front has put them light years ahead of us. But beyond the water frontage is nothing but a sh1t hole. The whole town is just a mass of tiny terraced houses that have no frontage. You can step out your front door and into your car in one step.

Status in that dump depends on how many pitbulls you own, that doesn't include their tattooed women.

 

One thing we have that they will never have is class.

 

-- but if you were a buyer you'd look at where the city IS GOING, not where it's been. They have a vision, we have none.

[scotty]

Portsmouth remains the only city I've driven through and noticed that just about every junction has a direction sign reading simply "OUT OF CITY", presumably because the natural reaction of anybody finding themselves there is to get the f**k out asap. The place is a dump, its ridiculous to compare it favourably with Southampton.

 

oh, and the Arab billionaire wouldnt have bought p**p*y as an investment, just a rich mans toy. That would rule out a club outside the prem, I agree with the others above on that point.

[hughieslastminutegoal]

Spot on. The comparison between the two cities is a complete red herring, as Portsmouth is the biggest **** hole in the South. Saying that there is no development potential along the waterside is total rubbish. The development can start around the old TV studio site and continue along the river all the way to Ocean Village and on the other side of the Woolston Bridge. All that industry along the river bank can relocate if somebody had the money to develop it. The long term future favours Southampton, as Portsmouth relies on the Navy which is in decline, whereas the passenger liner business and container port operations mean that Southampton is increasing its business. Southampton also has better transport links to other major UK destinations than Portsmouth too, via the M27, M3, A34 to the M4 and M40. As an island, Portsmouth has used virtually all its land and outward development is hampered by Leigh Park, Paulgrove, Cosham, which are also holes.

 

Agreed we need to do something to update Ocean village, but otherwise, he city is a far more attractive place than Portsmouth, with better parks, better historic buildings, better shops, etc.

 

I think you are valliantly holding on to a view of the two towns as they were.

 

Are you really saying that we can ignore what has been done in the last 10 years in Poopy, compared to the rubbish that has gone on here over the same period?

 

Poopy has shown energy, we just want tin boxes. And if I were an Arab buyer, that's exactly the kind of thing I'd be looking at if GROWTH (his word) was my objective.

[Wes Tender]

But that isn't what he said. The bloke who bought Pompey specifically said he wanted growth potential, not a plaything. That's out of the horses mouth.

 

And what is the potential for the Skates? They will have to be able to build the stadium first, which is something that they had extreme difficulty in doing within the city hinterland so far, even though Mandaric and Gaydamak both were wealthy men. Even if the stadium were to be built, where is the fanbase apart from around the city. Although they have taken some plastics from our area, we are still an obstruction to them mopping up many more unless we go out of existence. As we are up for sale and this Arab doesn't know who might buy us, he has no idea how we might redevelop ourselves. We already have the stadium and the better potential to mop up fans between here and Bristol if we rose from the ashes.

 

quote:hughieslastminutegoal:

I think you are valliantly holding on to a view of the two towns as they were.

 

Are you really saying that we can ignore what has been done in the last 10 years in Poopy, compared to the rubbish that has gone on here over the same period?

 

Poopy has shown energy, we just want tin boxes. And if I were an Arab buyer, that's exactly the kind of thing I'd be looking at if GROWTH (his word) was my objective.

 

No. I am looking a bit into the future. The long and short of it is that Portsmouth's main reason for its historic growth was as a Naval port. That is in decline, as will be their ferry port business. Southampton's growth was as a commercial port and that is increasing. Look at our geographical position and it is far better than Portsmouth, who are also restricted in their growth as an island.

[hughieslastminutegoal]

Portsmouth remains the only city I've driven through and noticed that just about every junction has a direction sign reading simply "OUT OF CITY", presumably because the natural reaction of anybody finding themselves there is to get the f**k out asap. The place is a dump, its ridiculous to compare it favourably with Southampton.

 

oh, and the Arab billionaire wouldnt have bought p**p*y as an investment, just a rich mans toy. That would rule out a club outside the prem, I agree with the others above on that point.

 

My post pointed out that GROWTH potential was what prompted him. That's what he said. But you apparently can read his "real mind" and say that he's only doing it for a plaything.

 

How much would you have to spend to "buy" promotion last year? I don't think it is quite the lottery others have suggested, with the right money. Ok, after the latest relegation you'd have to gain successive promotions, so Saints specifically are not so interesting now, but I doubt that Prem status worth 30m is really the deciding factor.

 

Say 18 months ago he'd paid 50m for Saints, spent 30m getting promotion, that's 80m invested. And how much has he paid for Pompey? And he's still got to build a stadium. That's why I don't think Prem status is so crucial, but CCC status at least probably is, along with what I think are important other factors, like "where is this city going?"

 

If only we'd perservered with our Civic Centre clock tower laser lights, we'd have shown that missing vision.

[kpturner]

along with what I think are important other factors, like "where is this city going?"

Stop it please. Whether or not somebody wants to buy Southampton, Poopey, Bournemouth or Leyton Orient, it has sweet f**k all to do with "where the City is going" or what the planners have or have not done or what they may or may not do in the future. It is because of the perceived status of the club in question and the price. End of.

[Charlie Wayman]

Nobody wants us because of US. Surely the penny will drop soon. This forum makes us - without exception - look like a bunch of idiotic oiks, semi-literate, poorly informed, rumour-mongering miseries, finding fault with everything and everyone. Who would want us?

[Frank's cousin]

Be honest - no one in the UK let alone outs side the UK gives aflying feck about any club outside the premiership and history counts for nothing either (look at Leeds) apart form each clubs own supporters, whatever the 'sleeping giant' potential. All symptomatic of the modern ideology - 'I want it now' - from the players and managers who jump ship prefereeing a fast track to medals tthan working and building something, to potential owners wanting the prem package...Had we been in the Prem right now we would be a great proposition...

[hughieslastminutegoal]

Stop it please. Whether or not somebody wants to buy Southampton, Poopey, Bournemouth or Leyton Orient, it has sweet f**k all to do with "where the City is going" or what the planners have or have not done or what they may or may not do in the future. It is because of the perceived status of the club in question and the price. End of.

 

 

So let me get this right. An Arab billionnaire is buying a club with no history, that has the worst ground in the Premiere League, in an awful city with no room to expand because this plaything brings him kudos with the only people who matter to him - other Arab billionnaires.

 

If you think Arabs are that stupid with their money, think again.

[hughieslastminutegoal]

Be honest - no one in the UK let alone outs side the UK gives aflying feck about any club outside the premiership and history counts for nothing either (look at Leeds) apart form each clubs own supporters' date=' whatever the 'sleeping giant' potential. All symptomatic of the modern ideology - 'I want it now' - from the players and managers who jump ship prefereeing a fast track to medals tthan working and building something, to potential owners wanting the prem package...Had we been in the Prem right now we would be a great proposition...[/quote']

 

 

So why weren't we when we were?

[jeff leopard]

Who would want us?

 

 

Sad but true.

 

I think the fans' reputation has nose-dived along with the club's league standing. We used to be a friendly family club, but now we call for our managers to be sacked the same day they're hired. What a joke.

 

Its not just the club that needs to get its house in order.

[Frank's cousin]

So why weren't we when we were?

 

NO one as buying then - and NONE of teh shareholders were actively selling - and why would they, we were a stable club slowly progressing under Strachan, why sell your share of that?

[Secret Site Agent]

AH, ****. The old town planning debacle raises it's ugly head.

The problem with such developments is the attitude and strategy of the local planning department. We built ocean village based on the fact that people who have yachts have money, and that is what we want. So, we pander to the Boat Show crowd. But they don't spend money, as the ocean village becomes a weekend/holiday haunt but these people don't go walking up the high street to buy stuff. We don't really attract the right sort for a boom. We have no beach and no large pleasure areas. To improve we would have to concentrate on what we have, and what people want. I don't know how much the boat show brings in, but I have never seen the benefit for us, and now they have cleared the kiddies park and moved it closer to the gates to get more boats in.

 

To be really attractive we have to decide who we want to attract. We are twinned with LeHarve, which is nice, but how about us being twinned with Plymouth, Massachusettes? The Mayflower sailed from here, to there. It'll clear up a few misnomers that is for sure, and encorage a few more Americans to visit us. How about going back to the live action history walks that they used to have? Or better yet, get the bloody mass transit system proposals back on track, especially from the Station to the Stadium, and all junctions in-between. Personnaly I think we still have more to offer than Portsmouth, and we can certainly expand on that with more of a unified strategy, and less pandering to those with money who are gtoo tight to spend it.

 

But, back on topic, I believe Sheik Peter Kay was just after a Prem outfit as well, which is what he had set his eyes on. After all, he wanted Newcastle before, why not try and buy them now, for a cut down price? Any one who is going to buy us is eithr

a) A Fan looking to indulve his life long dream, or to keep his team out of the poo-poo

b) Someone looking for an investment with a short term goal

c) Someone who sees and opportunity for a longer term investment

d) Likes a challenge, as getting us into the Prem and winning stuff would look good on a CV.

 

I'm hoping for someone with a bit of each in him, with the Fan bit covered by a licking for a sleeping giant who has fallen on hard times.

 

Gotta go, Quality submissions for tenders don't write themselves.

[kpturner]

So let me get this right. An Arab billionnaire is buying a club with no history, that has the worst ground in the Premiere League, in an awful city with no room to expand because this plaything brings him kudos with the only people who matter to him - other Arab billionnaires.

 

If you think Arabs are that stupid with their money, think again.

You missed my point entirely. He is buying it because it is a PL club that happened to be for sale and its probably the cheapest opportunity he is going to get. If you are asking me whether I think he spent weeks examining and comparing the planning aspirations (past present and future) of Portsmouth (as opposed to, say, Southampton) then IMHO that is complete nonsense.....but then who really knows. Your OP was all about implying that people would rather invest in Poopey FC than SFC because of the wonderfully forward thinking Portsmouth planners and the woefully backward thinking Southampton planners - when in actual fact he probably did not consider investing in SFC because they are way below the radar of anyone outside of this country, and that is because while this guy has been pondering the purchase of a football club SFC were either CCC pond life or L1 ameoba.

[aintforever]

There is only one reason why pompey have got a billionare Arab and that's because the Prem gives him instant worldwide exposure, any other reason is not at all important.

 

Agree about Southampton Council being a joke though, they keep banging on about creating a "Wow" factor when the only "wow" factor is it is unbelievable they cannot see the city already has it in the cruise liners. The problem is because of their comically bad town planning you have some of the most spectacular ships in the World hidden behind grain silos, old derelict buildings and car parks - the city council have ****ed up the city's main asset - the waterfront.

[SaintRichmond]

I was listening to a business journo close to the new Dubai owner of Pompey who said he was buying them because they had much better scope for growth, and that he’d been looking around for a club for quite some time. He apparently was prepared to buy Newcastle for 200m some time ago but Ashley wanted 400m.

 

This begs the question, why were Saints not on his horizon. Last year with the right buyer we were a season away from the Premiere League, and he was looking to buy a club then. He’d have got us for 50m tops, probably a lot less. And we have a stadium, not a word you could use to describe Fratton Park.

 

So why pay quite a sizeable sum for Portsmouth now when he could have got us for much, much less, still liquid, a year ago?

 

1) We were CCC not Prem – but he could have pretty well bought promotion

2) We weren’t high profile enough – Pompey can’t really be described as high profile, and we had a 30 year recent history of top division football

 

Turning back to growth potential, what have Pompey got that we haven’t?

 

Is our stadium in the wrong place? – Probably. Far from good transport links, and stuck in a dead-looking area with no scope for quality non-industrial development.

 

Is Portsmouth a more attractive place than Southampton? – Definitely yes. Up to say 10 years ago I’d always have said Southampton over Pompey, but not any longer.

 

Portsmouth has had a vision for the development of the harbour area far beyond what our planners have managed to come up with for Southampton. They built a forward-looking Spinnaker Tower, placed to attract attention as part of an integrated harbour development, marina and shopping. We on the other hand can’t seem to get past a tin-foil mock up of a spitfire stuck on the end of a jetty separated from just about everything, the closest shopping being West Quay with it’s special view over roads, surface car parks and tin boxes. If you are lucky you might be able to see a cruise liner funnel.

 

Portsmouth as a city attracts far more attention than Southampton, which has no focus, no integrated development plan, and has pretty much thrown away the chance it once had to come up with a coherent strategy for linking the retail areas with the waterfront. We have great central parks, but they are increasingly becoming isolated, with the town centre increasingly turning its back towards them.

 

The City Council are still coming up with plans that do things like put a heritage centre in the Civic Centre, when clearly that would be far better to build one where it can help integrate the waterfront (where our heritage lies) with the shopping area. We still want the arts centre where Tyrell& Green was, maintaining and accentuating the strung-out shape of the town.

We have done little to expose and highlight the town walls, or integrate our old buildings into developments easily visible to the visitor. The wider West Quay area is just a visual mess. John Lewis our flagship store has its restaurant view murdered by an enormous blue box.

 

That’s why Southampton Football Club isn’t an investment opportunity for the big players. It’s tainted by the lack of ambition and short sightedness of the entire city.

 

 

 

THAT is the key to the whole scenario ........and who was it that masterminded St Mary's after failing to land Stoneham ????