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Reality check


Fitzhugh Fella

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We are pretty quick on this forum to criticise the arrogance of the fans down the M27 who claim they are the bestest in the world but, over the last few weeks, dare I suggest, we too, have been a little above ourselves with talk of Champions League football and top 8 finishes. In the pub today, before the game, the arrogance of Saints fans predicting an easy win was a bit of a worry and sure enough, right on cue a few hours later we were truly found out by a team most on here predicted to be "on the beach". We have done well to avoid relegation, assuming we have (the odds have shortened from 100/1 to 80/1 tonight) but we are, at present no more than a team good enough just to survive. That to me is acceptable and I just think all talk about us being a team destined for greater things best be avoided until we achieve a bit of consistency with our current batch of players or we invest in players good enough to move us up to the next level. That is easier said than done as can be witnessed by both Mayuka and Ramirez - big money signings - have not delivered accordingly to the money spent on them. Let's not get too ahead of ourselves, stop the chest thumping and accept for now staying up will be a good achievement.

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Its a bit more proof that we're better than relegation fodder, but not yet anywhere near the level requried to get near the European places. 10th - 17th in Premier League is extremely close, usually is. Staying up will be a very good accomplishment; progressing onwards significantly from that will be another step altogether.

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The talk about the CL for me was a little deluded, Europe is one thing and achievable but if I am not mistaken there has only been what ? 5 english teams in the CL ?

 

It gives me hope that Cortese's plans are grand enough to TRY but I am realistic that itll take time, I also take heart from spurs and especially Everton. But again, we are not there, nor do I honestly think we ever will be but there you go.

 

Im not sure that Poch's words were about right now, but they got in the players heads and they believed they just needed to turn up and thats dangerous. The fans and a few of us seriously considering it in the near future was also cringey. Long term ambition is one thing, but thats different.

 

Lets not go from one dillusion to another though, today was the worst I have seen for certainly this season (closely followed by brom away) but to say we will be lucky to survive is silly.

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The talk about the CL for me was a little deluded, Europe is one thing and achievable but if I am not mistaken there has only been what ? 5 english teams in the CL ?

 

It gives me hope that Cortese's plans are grand enough to TRY but I am realistic that itll take time, I also take heart from spurs and especially Everton. But again, we are not there, nor do I honestly think we ever will be but there you go.

 

Im not sure that Poch's words were about right now, but they got in the players heads and they believed they just needed to turn up and thats dangerous. The fans and a few of us seriously considering it in the near future was also cringey. Long term ambition is one thing, but thats different.

 

Lets not go from one dillusion to another though, today was the worst I have seen for certainly this season (closely followed by brom away) but to say we will be lucky to survive is silly.

 

 

If you think we are anywhere near the size of Everton or Spurs then you are very very mistaken.

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You're right, at the moment we aren't much more than perennial relegation battlers, but by all accounts the systems are in place for us to build on what we've achieved this season. I for one am quite excited to see who Pochettino brings in over the summer. Last summer's signings were made by a a manager with no previous experience in top level football - with the results being a little hit and miss. In Pochettino we have a manager that, in my opinion, could put a hell of team together.

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On the beach already. I have said all along, that if we beat West Ham we would have ended 9th. We did not, and I said we would stutter to the end of the season.

 

This season was over after the Reading game, and the objective of this season has been met.

 

Very bad day at the office today, but strengthen in the summer and no reason why we cannot push on. This could mean we are mid table all season, but not ever in the bottom 3, as this would b pushing on.

 

I think 10 and the luck of the draw good cup run, is possible, and then, who knows.

 

Loved this season, but it is over, and I would not be surprised if we did not see another win in the 2012/13 season, but already looking forward to the premier league 2013/14.

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We are pretty quick on this forum to criticise the arrogance of the fans down the M27 who claim they are the bestest in the world but, over the last few weeks, dare I suggest, we too, have been a little above ourselves with talk of Champions League football and top 8 finishes. In the pub today, before the game, the arrogance of Saints fans predicting an easy win was a bit of a worry and sure enough, right on cue a few hours later we were truly found out by a team most on here predicted to be "on the beach". We have done well to avoid relegation, assuming we have (the odds have shortened from 100/1 to 80/1 tonight) but we are, at present no more than a team good enough just to survive. That to me is acceptable and I just think all talk about us being a team destined for greater things best be avoided until we achieve a bit of consistency with our current batch of players or we invest in players good enough to move us up to the next level. That is easier said than done as can be witnessed by both Mayuka and Ramirez - big money signings - have not delivered accordingly to the money spent on them. Let's not get too ahead of ourselves, stop the chest thumping and accept for now staying up will be a good achievement.

 

Voice of reason.

 

We were the team "on the beach" today.

 

Survival, yes, I'd have accepted that and on the morning on January 19th 2013 thought we had a manager capable of that, and seeing through steady progression for a few years to come.

 

As for Europe, only Cortese and our most one eyed supporter see that as imminently likely.

 

As for Mayuka/Ramirez, and I know this is a different debate, I really wonder who scouted, insisted on their signings, and drove the deals through.

 

I like Ramirez, and hope he stays, he has great potential, and another season will see him excel, but I certainly feel that £12/14m sum might have been more sensibly been invested for our first season back in the top flight.

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We have the basis of a good squad, the likes of Cork, Spider-Man, Lallana, Clyne, J Rod, Shaw, JWP can be added to, and this can only make us stronger. Look at some teams and they have nowhere near the potential (&already proved in this league) to add to.

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You're right, at the moment we aren't much more than perennial relegation battlers, but by all accounts the systems are in place for us to build on what we've achieved this season. I for one am quite excited to see who Pochettino brings in over the summer. Last summer's signings were made by a a manager with no previous experience in top level football - with the results being a little hit and miss. In Pochettino we have a manager that, in my opinion, could put a hell of team together.
Why do you think that? Which particular bit of his track record has brought you to that opinion?
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Voice of reason.

 

We were the team "on the beach" today.

 

Survival, yes, I'd have accepted that and on the morning on January 19th 2013 thought we had a manager capable of that, and seeing through steady progression for a few years to come.

 

As for Europe, only Cortese and our most one eyed supporter see that as imminently likely.

 

As for Mayuka/Ramirez, and I know this is a different debate, I really wonder who scouted, insisted on their signings, and drove the deals through.

 

I like Ramirez, and hope he stays, he has great potential, and another season will see him excel, but I certainly feel that £12/14m sum might have been more sensibly been invested for our first season back in the top flight.

 

I can agree with this. Though I wonder if the Ramirez deal was one that was there at the time maybe ? And so we took the plunge ? I honestly think he will kick on next year.

 

Mayuka though, from what I have seen, I just dont know if he will make it in the prem, maybe he has quality, but I dont see it personally

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We are pretty quick on this forum to criticise the arrogance of the fans down the M27 who claim they are the bestest in the world but, over the last few weeks, dare I suggest, we too, have been a little above ourselves with talk of Champions League football and top 8 finishes. In the pub today, before the game, the arrogance of Saints fans predicting an easy win was a bit of a worry and sure enough, right on cue a few hours later we were truly found out by a team most on here predicted to be "on the beach". We have done well to avoid relegation, assuming we have (the odds have shortened from 100/1 to 80/1 tonight) but we are, at present no more than a team good enough just to survive. That to me is acceptable and I just think all talk about us being a team destined for greater things best be avoided until we achieve a bit of consistency with our current batch of players or we invest in players good enough to move us up to the next level. That is easier said than done as can be witnessed by both Mayuka and Ramirez - big money signings - have not delivered accordingly to the money spent on them. Let's not get too ahead of ourselves, stop the chest thumping and accept for now staying up will be a good achievement.

 

Agreed and I have been saying as much for weeks only to be lambasted by the rose tinted spectacle brigade.

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On the beach already. I have said all along, that if we beat West Ham we would have ended 9th. We did not, and I said we would stutter to the end of the season.

 

This season was over after the Reading game, and the objective of this season has been met.

 

Very bad day at the office today, but strengthen in the summer and no reason why we cannot push on. This could mean we are mid table all season, but not ever in the bottom 3, as this would b pushing on.

 

I think 10 and the luck of the draw good cup run, is possible, and then, who knows.

 

Loved this season, but it is over, and I would not be surprised if we did not see another win in the 2012/13 season, but already looking forward to the premier league 2013/14.

 

Fairly balanced post but as I have said many times WE ARE NOT SAFE YET AND WILL GO DOWN IF WE ONLY ACHIEVE 39 POINTS. Again, I stand by this.

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Tried that one buddy, he asked if I was serious and then bottled it

 

Then accused me of being an arrogant troll by saying we were safe

 

Unsurprising. He's the worst of cowards who doesn't back up his "hilarious" repetitive spoutings. That's why he's so repetitive with the Hoddle stuff, he completely bottled it and did nothing at the time. Nothing at all. He was worse than the "vocal minority" who he constantly refers to; at least they actually gave an opinion; this poor excuse just shrunk and said nothing. Timid little coward.

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Unsurprising. He's the worst of cowards who doesn't back up his "hilarious" repetitive spoutings. That's why he's so repetitive with the Hoddle stuff, he completely bottled it and did nothing at the time. Nothing at all. He was worse than the "vocal minority" who he constantly refers to; at least they actually gave an opinion; this poor excuse just shrunk and said nothing. Timid little coward.

 

I hope you are writing a fictional based account because you certainly don't know what a fact is.

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I hope you are writing a fictional based account because you certainly don't know what a fact is.

Really? tell us what you did to combat the anti-Hoddle brigade that you prat on about so much. At the time, what did you do? Other than cry into your pillow.

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Really? tell us what you did to combat the anti-Hoddle brigade that you prat on about so much. At the time, what did you do? Other than cry into your pillow.

 

Agreed, myself an the vast majority of Saints fans were ambushed by the vocal minority (of whichI assume you are one), who mysteriously disappeared or have been trying to airbrush their part out in the debacle ever since. At least you have the guts to admit your mistake.

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If you think we are anywhere near the size of Everton or Spurs then you are very very mistaken.

 

As Noodles says, define big. Yes they probably have more supporters than us but how does that actually translate on the pitch? Spurs can fit an extra 4,000 fans into their stadium and Eveton an extra 8,000. Even if all those extra seats equate to a die hard ST paying £500 a season, that only makes an extra £2m and £4m income each, per annum. When you take transfer fees, wages, agents fees, signing on fees etc, into account spurs could probably buy an extra Steve De Ridder every season, whilst Everton could buy an extra paulo Gazzaniga.

 

Both teams have more exciting and colourful histories than Saints but no players (despite the cliched interviews they give when they join a club) give a flying f**k about it's history. Nobody signs for Everton because they won the League 30 years ago or they won the FA Cup once in the 90s. They want money and, if possible, Champions League football. Just look at Bale, allegedly saying he's off if Spuds don't qualify.

 

"Big" means f**k all really. If Everton are bigger than we are because they won Division 1 a couple of times in the 80s then so be it, I really don't see why anyone should care.

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Agreed, myself an the vast majority of Saints fans were ambushed by the vocal minority (of whichI assume you are one), who mysteriously disappeared or have been trying to airbrush their part out in the debacle ever since. At least you have the guts to admit your mistake.

Well being as I was living abroad the time I'd have done well to get my point across all too well. Still, another thing you've got hopelessly wrong. Well done you.

 

Coward.

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Fairly balanced post but as I have said many times WE ARE NOT SAFE YET AND WILL GO DOWN IF WE ONLY ACHIEVE 39 POINTS. Again, I stand by this.

 

Its saturday night in norwich - don't you have a cleft-lipped relative or someone to cozy up with?

 

Give us a break ffs.

Edited by shurlock
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Well being as I was living abroad the time I'd have done well to get my point across all too well. Still, another thing you've got hopelessly wrong. Well done you.

 

Coward.

 

I fail to understand where the coward thing comes from, sounds more like an immature playground jibe.

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You're right, at the moment we aren't much more than perennial relegation battlers, but by all accounts the systems are in place for us to build on what we've achieved this season. I for one am quite excited to see who Pochettino brings in over the summer. Last summer's signings were made by a a manager with no previous experience in top level football - with the results being a little hit and miss. In Pochettino we have a manager that, in my opinion, could put a hell of team together.

 

Do you really believe those signings were down to Adkins???

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I fail to understand where the coward thing comes from, sounds more like an immature playground jibe.

 

You complain about the "vocal minority". Right or wrong in your eyes, they had the courage of their convictions to do something about it, and they protested against Hoddle. You (apparently) felt the other way, yet were too scared to stick your head above the parapet and make your feelings known. You shrank. You did nothing. Nothing at all. And yet you have your hilarious and relentless campaign to do something about an issue you did nothing at all to contribute to when it really mattered. You bottled it mate, you did nothing at all when it really mattered.

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Do you really believe those signings were down to Adkins???

 

It might also be worth questioning why people believe MP will have any more chance of selecting the players he wants than NA, or if they will be assembled for him ?

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You complain about the "vocal minority". Right or wrong in your eyes, they had the courage of their convictions to do something about it, and they protested against Hoddle. You (apparently) felt the other way, yet were too scared to stick your head above the parapet and make your feelings known. You shrank. You did nothing. Nothing at all. And yet you have your hilarious and relentless campaign to do something about an issue you did nothing at all to contribute to when it really mattered. You bottled it mate, you did nothing at all when it really mattered.

 

If you say so. If you trawl back to 2003 and check my posts at that time I think you will find enough evidence to say the opposite.

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If you say so. If you trawl back to 2003 and check my posts at that time I think you will find enough evidence to say the opposite.

 

So you posted on an internet board about it?

 

:lol::lol::lol:

 

Hold the horses!! I never realised you were so proactive, so much so that you had a little whinge on an internet mongboard! A whinge that is as utterly irrelevant as your repetitive ramblings to this day.

 

What a shame you were too much of a coward to do anything more; unlike those on the other side who really made a difference. I can see why you'd be ashamed of your lack of action, to be fair. If I cared that much about an issue and failed to do a single significant thing about it, I'd probably be embarrassed with myself too and keen to try and make amends for my shameful lack of action when it was really needed.

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Depending on your religious beliefs, you are none existent for billions of years from the creation of the universe. Then you get to live on this Earth for a few years before dying and remaining as such for the rest of eternity.

 

So why with such an inifitely small period of existence do people choose to waste it arguing with people like Dalek on the Internet? The inventor of the ignore button had a framed portrait of Dalek on the wall of his office as motivation behind the concept. Let us honour his creation in unison.

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Depending on your religious beliefs, you are none existent for billions of years from the creation of the universe. Then you get to live on this Earth for a few years before dying and remaining as such for the rest of eternity.

 

So why with such an inifitely small period of existence do people choose to waste it arguing with people like Dalek on the Internet? The inventor of the ignore button had a framed portrait of Dalek on the wall of his office as motivation behind the concept. Let us honour his creation in unison.

 

Its akin to ribbing MLG. You know you shouldn't do it, you know it makes no sense, but its also too much of a funnily easy target.

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We are pretty quick on this forum to criticise the arrogance of the fans down the M27 who claim they are the bestest in the world but, over the last few weeks, dare I suggest, we too, have been a little above ourselves with talk of Champions League football and top 8 finishes. In the pub today, before the game, the arrogance of Saints fans predicting an easy win was a bit of a worry and sure enough, right on cue a few hours later we were truly found out by a team most on here predicted to be "on the beach". We have done well to avoid relegation, assuming we have (the odds have shortened from 100/1 to 80/1 tonight) but we are, at present no more than a team good enough just to survive. That to me is acceptable and I just think all talk about us being a team destined for greater things best be avoided until we achieve a bit of consistency with our current batch of players or we invest in players good enough to move us up to the next level. That is easier said than done as can be witnessed by both Mayuka and Ramirez - big money signings - have not delivered accordingly to the money spent on them. Let's not get too ahead of ourselves, stop the chest thumping and accept for now staying up will be a good achievement.

 

 

agree with 99% of that Duncan, but Mayuka's not been given a full 90 minutes in a game, and it's difficult to make a clear judgment. I can't believe he's never been good enough for a run of games.

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Posters are asking how to define big - twenty years ago I would have said it depended on the size of your fanbase, your ground and your attendances but you only have to look at Wigan/Blackburn Rovers to realise size of a club is now judged on the wealth (and common sense) of the owners.

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agree with 99% of that Duncan, but Mayuka's not been given a full 90 minutes in a game, and it's difficult to make a clear judgment. I can't believe he's never been good enough for a run of games.

 

True that as a fan you can't make a judgement on just a few a appearances, but the coaches can because part of their job is to assess the players from how they perform in training and practice matches. Mayuka may have had a run in the side if Lambert or JRod had been out for some time but neither have them have warranted being dropped. Those managers who rotate their squads to give all the players a chance are just as open to criticism as are those who stick with a best eleven and are then told a good understudy hasn't had a chance.

Edited by Professor
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To be honest, my talk of Europe has been coupled with the condition that we spend as at least as much as we have done this season as we did last season plus inflation with new premier money etc. I.e £50m.

 

We would need to spend the same or more than our rivals consistantly, its no good saying about the academy if they are as good as other clubs players bought they cancel each other out but save us loads of money.

£50 Million and wages is bare minimum, will we spend that? No we wont so all the hope and expectation of European football is folly and quite irresponsible as it raises false hopes to the clapper and non football cling on.

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