Is the Capital One cup still beneath us?

Well it seems with a favourable draw a potential cup final is in sight, is this our year? Who knows. However this time last year when we went out in this competiton is was a good thing and we were told by many on here the competition was beneath us and a bit Mickey Mouse for a club of our stature. Is this still the view, or are people now getting excited about our chances in this trophy?

I'd rather win this than come 5th.

It's refreshing to have a manager that actually seems to be taking the cups seriously.

It's refreshing to have a manager that actually seems to be taking the cups seriously.

I know, the side we put out for the 4th Qualifying Round of the FA Cup was the business...

I'd rather win this than come 5th.

this.

It's refreshing to have a manager that actually seems to be taking the cups seriously.

Twas the view of many of our fans too.

Well it seems with a favourable draw a potential cup final is in sight, is this our year? Who knows. However this time last year when we went out in this competiton is was a good thing and we were told by many on here the competition was beneath us and a bit Mickey Mouse for a club of our stature. Is this still the view, or are people now getting excited about our chances in this trophy?

No-one has ever said its 'beneath us'. No-one would ever want Saints to NOT win a football match, but yes I'd much rather finish 4th in the Premiership and have a crack at the Champions League than win either of our domestic cups.

That's not to say we can't try and do both.

You continually straw-man anyone who's priorities don't align with yours.

No-one has ever said its 'beneath us'. No-one would ever want Saints to NOT win a football match, but yes I'd much rather finish 4th in the Premiership and have a crack at the Champions League than win either of our domestic cups.

 

That's not to say we can't try and do both.

 

You continually straw-man anyone who's priorities don't align with yours.

4th in the Premiership? Behind 3 crappy Scottish teams or 3 rugby teams?

4th in the Premiership? Behind 3 crappy Scottish teams or 3 rugby teams?

You must be great fun at a party.

I'd rather win this than come 5th.

5th gives us a Europa League spot, no? I'd take winning that over the League Cup but I'd take the League Cup over nothing.

It's the only trophy Spuds have won in 21 years, so got to be worth a go

No-one has ever said its 'beneath us'. No-one would ever want Saints to NOT win a football match, but yes I'd much rather finish 4th in the Premiership and have a crack at the Champions League than win either of our domestic cups.

 

That's not to say we can't try and do both.

 

You continually straw-man anyone who's priorities don't align with yours.

I think you'll find this time last year there were quite a few who were glad we were out and played a weakend team and aiming for 7th was far more important.

If we are to progress we have to win silverware, and the League Cup will do for starters!

I'd rather win this than come 5th.

Agreed. Although I'd like both ...

I'd rather win this than come 5th.

Agree.

The worst thing that MP did last year was the cup competitions. We all know Sunderland away. Showed a huge disrespect to the fans and club. Funny though, that if we had gone through and won the competition, then Spurs would have missed out on Europe. Coincidence I'm sure.

I'd rather win this than come 5th.

This.

People remember cup winners.

This.

 

People remember cup winners.

People remember FA cup winners. Pleased we're taking it seriously, but would take 5th/6th and out next round over 7th/8th and winning it.

Cracking game tonight. Proper cup stuff.

No-one has ever said its 'beneath us'. No-one would ever want Saints to NOT win a football match, but yes I'd much rather finish 4th in the Premiership and have a crack at the Champions League than win either of our domestic cups.

 

That's not to say we can't try and do both.

 

You continually straw-man anyone who's priorities don't align with yours.

Plenty of people were disparaging about both cups last season, especially the league cup. Despite this being a forum for supporters of a club who have won one major trophy in its entire history. One.

I'd rather win this than come 5th.

I'd rather come 4th than win this.

But we all know that won't happen.

We're gonna finish 3rd

City didn't turn their nose up at it last year, and I won't this [or any other year].

Adriansfc is right - for all the sneering at the time, winning the JPT at Wembley felt pretty bl**dy great.

People remember FA cup winners. Pleased we're taking it seriously, but would take 5th/6th and out next round over 7th/8th and winning it.

Why?

People remember FA cup winners. Pleased we're taking it seriously, but would take 5th/6th and out next round over 7th/8th and winning it.

"People remember" the teams that finish fifth/sixth do they?

Plenty of people were disparaging about both cups last season, especially the league cup. Despite this being a forum for supporters of a club who have won one major trophy in its entire history. One.

This! Got a real chance now to change that.

Well it seems with a favourable draw a potential cup final is in sight, is this our year? Who knows. However this time last year when we went out in this competiton is was a good thing and we were told by many on here the competition was beneath us and a bit Mickey Mouse for a club of our stature. Is this still the view, or are people now getting excited about our chances in this trophy?

Go on then, find us a couple of quotes from people that said the competition was beneath us. I think what actually happened was that there was a (over)reaction among some vocal fans on here that expressed an opinion that there were massive changes to the team and the club didn't take it the cup seriously and they were quite upset about it. In reality, I think when you actually looked at it there were about 3 unforced changes to the team from the previous match, and but for a pretty awful miss late in the game (Lambert?) we would have got a draw. Anyone that then said they would prioritise the league were accused of belittling the cup, blah, blah blah.

Today, Targett, Gardos, Wanyama come in and we win. It's not so different to what happened against Sunderland is it?

I hope it's our year, I hope we win every game we play. I enjoy that. I take very little enjoyment from childish playground one upmanship

Plenty of people were disparaging about both cups last season, especially the league cup. Despite this being a forum for supporters of a club who have won one major trophy in its entire history. One.

Plenty weren't though. I am still seething about the FA Cup. Think the healing will still take a few more years.

Well it seems with a favourable draw a potential cup final is in sight, is this our year? Who knows. However this time last year when we went out in this competiton is was a good thing and we were told by many on here the competition was beneath us and a bit Mickey Mouse for a club of our stature. Is this still the view, or are people now getting excited about our chances in this trophy?

Yes, but we will humour you.

Go on then, find us a couple of quotes from people that said the competition was beneath us. I think what actually happened was that there was a (over)reaction among some vocal fans on here that expressed an opinion that there were massive changes to the team and the club didn't take it the cup seriously and they were quite upset about it. In reality, I think when you actually looked at it there were about 3 unforced changes to the team from the previous match, and but for a pretty awful miss late in the game (Lambert?) we would have got a draw. Anyone that then said they would prioritise the league were accused of belittling the cup, blah, blah blah.

 

Today, Targett, Gardos, Wanyama come in and we win. It's not so different to what happened against Sunderland is it?

 

I hope it's our year, I hope we win every game we play. I enjoy that. I take very little enjoyment from childish playground one upmanship

Was angry about league cup but no excuse for FA cup as no games even near it. It was not the same and the league was done. Make all the excuses you want but MP fcked up there.

This thread is almost as exciting as Phil Neville cleaning the grouting in his bathroom. Almost.

"People remember" the teams that finish fifth/sixth do they?

Folks probably remember League Cup winners as much as they do JPT winners. Not quite the same as the FA Cup. Still, better than nowt of course.

Was angry about league cup but no excuse for FA cup as no games even near it. It was not the same and the league was done. Make all the excuses you want but MP fcked up there.

And maybe if Lambert (remember him) hadn't missed when easier to score would have got a replay at home

And maybe if Lambert (remember him) hadn't missed when easier to score would have got a replay at home

Maybe you don't rest Schneiderlin and Rodriguez for what is the most important game left in the season

Folks probably remember League Cup winners as much as they do JPT winners. Not quite the same as the FA Cup. Still, better than nowt of course.

Almost all of the League Cup winners over the last twenty years have been from the biggest clubs in the country.

A mite different to the Johnstone's Paint Trophy.

I think you'll find this time last year there were quite a few who were glad we were out and played a weakend team and aiming for 7th was far more important.

Examples?

I can imagine there being a degree of sour grapes inasmuch as people were likely to shrug and say "ahwel I guess at least we can concentrate on the league" or "meh...s'only the cup...probably would have ran into an impossible tie sooner or later anyway", but I don't remember anyone saying that they'd swap a cup for 7th in the league.

You are straw-manning.

Plenty of people were disparaging about both cups last season, especially the league cup. Despite this being a forum for supporters of a club who have won one major trophy in its entire history. One.

Again..."disparaging" is a very subjective way of putting it. Was being less than apoplectic with rage for three solid months after losing away at Sunderland with a weakened team 'disparaging'? Was not being all that fussed about going to see us play Burnley in the third round of the FA cup last year on a miserable January weekend 'disparaging'?

And finally, you're both forgetting that there's a degree of chicken-and-egg to this.

The cups are valued less *because* a great many of the bigger teams don't care that much about them. Manchester City will not fail to beat Newcastle at home in the League, mark my words, yet their defeat tonight isn't *that* surprising.

For my generation; the cups have never been that big a deal, the Champions League has. We didn't decide on this, it wasn't our *choice*. It is simply the way its been throughout most of our lives. As such, yes, many of us would value 4th place in the Premiership over a domestic trophy that you only win, in part, because the bigger clubs aren't all that arsed about anyway.

To what standard do you hold us in terms of saying that we're somehow *wrong* to feel that way?

Go on then, find us a couple of quotes from people that said the competition was beneath us. I think what actually happened was that there was a (over)reaction among some vocal fans on here that expressed an opinion that there were massive changes to the team and the club didn't take it the cup seriously and they were quite upset about it. In reality, I think when you actually looked at it there were about 3 unforced changes to the team from the previous match, and but for a pretty awful miss late in the game (Lambert?) we would have got a draw. Anyone that then said they would prioritise the league were accused of belittling the cup, blah, blah blah.

 

Today, Targett, Gardos, Wanyama come in and we win. It's not so different to what happened against Sunderland is it?

 

I hope it's our year, I hope we win every game we play. I enjoy that. I take very little enjoyment from childish playground one upmanship

For starters the Lambert miss was in the FA cup game, secondly our team for the league cup game had players like Fox, Lee, Yoshida, k Davis, Hooliveld Reed and Ramirez, so a virtual second string, thirdly, I'm of course not saying every fan felt that way, but a large amount on here thought it was beneath us and we should be aiming for a higher league finish. here's a few quotes from match thread the night we lost to Sunderland, more than the couple you asked for, but apart from all that you were spot on.

"Is rather three points against Hull than a win tonight"

"A win against Hull is far more important than the Mickey Mouse cup"

"Meh, focus on the league"

"Winning this cup means jack shi*e"

"The performance tonight shows why we cannot risk our first teamers in this cup"

Folks probably remember League Cup winners as much as they do JPT winners. Not quite the same as the FA Cup. Still, better than nowt of course.

Without checking Can you name the JPT cup winners from 2011, the year Birmigham won the league cup?

win a cup and wave it in the direction of those who baled out on Saints in search of trophies , no silverware unless you win, so 4th 7th whatever means nothing in the record books and players will talk about medals and winning silverware at Saints rather than a league placing

Folks probably remember League Cup winners as much as they do JPT winners. Not quite the same as the FA Cup. Still, better than nowt of course.

Exactly. I'd love to win the LC but it would only put us up there with Blackburn, Middlesbrough and Birmingham in recent history.

Please name and shame whoever said winning this cup means Jack sh1te. Was it Sarnia?

Exactly. I'd love to win the LC but it would only put us up there with Blackburn, Middlesbrough and Birmingham in recent history.

Why do you support the club? If you can't enjoy a LC win as it is not famous years on amongst other fans I pity you.

Exactly. I'd love to win the LC but it would only put us up there with Blackburn, Middlesbrough and Birmingham in recent history.

Not Manchester City, Manchester United, Chelsea and Liverpool then?

This thread seems to be blurring the LC and FAC together ........... was the same team we lost to OK.

So what we talking about League Cup or FA Cup or just point scoring ?????

Examples?

 

I can imagine there being a degree of sour grapes inasmuch as people were likely to shrug and say "ahwel I guess at least we can concentrate on the league" or "meh...s'only the cup...probably would have ran into an impossible tie sooner or later anyway", but I don't remember anyone saying that they'd swap a cup for 7th in the league.

 

You are straw-manning.

 

 

 

Again..."disparaging" is a very subjective way of putting it. Was being less than apoplectic with rage for three solid months after losing away at Sunderland with a weakened team 'disparaging'? Was not being all that fussed about going to see us play Burnley in the third round of the FA cup last year on a miserable January weekend 'disparaging'?

I think you should avoid accusing others of strawman arguments when you come out with this stuff.

When I say disparaging I mean disparaging. Not the strawman stuff you cobbled together.

Little hint: pretending people were "apoplectic with rage" is far harder to prove than my simple remark that folk were disparaging about both cups. Luckily I am not going to ask for "Examples?" because that's your style not mine.

Look up disparaging and then note that handily Turkish has already put some specific quoted disparaging remarks up, that's what I am saying, and that is what happened.

Why?

If we finish 7th/8th, I think were likely to lose 3/4 key players again. Of course we all know that that wouldn't necessarily spell disaster, but the turnover in players is always a risk and I think if we were to finish 5th or 6th, we would have done enough to convince Morgan, Tadic, Alderweireld, Clyne etc. that the club was progressing.

Winning the League Cup would be great don't get me wrong, but it's not going to convince players that we're a club looking for CL football. I'd much rather finish higher, not win a trophy and as a consequence, put ourselves in a great position to keep the current group together.

If we finish 7th/8th, I think were likely to lose 3/4 key players again. Of course we all know that that wouldn't necessarily spell disaster, but the turnover in players is always a risk and I think if we were to finish 5th or 6th, we would have done enough to convince Morgan, Tadic, Alderweireld, Clyne etc. that the club was progressing.

 

Winning the League Cup would be great don't get me wrong, but it's not going to convince players that we're a club looking for CL football. I'd much rather finish higher, not win a trophy and as a consequence, put ourselves in a great position to keep the current group together.

You're seriously going with that argument? Seriously?

I know it's your thing, but all fans feel that way about it until the later stages. Same with the europa league. Amazing competitions from the quarter finals with the finish line in sight. Even the JPT I couldn't give a sh1t about until the semi finals. I mean fans don't get many wembley trips do they.

All fans? Speak for your fukcing self. Plenty at Millwall, Arsenal and here in Stoke, whether or not you give a ****

I thought most on here were happy to win the JPT a few years back and I thought most were fkd off last season when more effort could of been made against the macams. I now think most would be chuffed to fk and well impressed ifffff we win the League Cup.

I think the other big difference between the LC and FAC is that the LC winners have to start in Europe a lot earlier like St Patricks or Bangor City in late June early...

I thought most on here were happy to win the JPT a few years back and I thought most were fkd off last season when more effort could of been made against the macams. I now think most would be chuffed to fk and well impressed ifffff we win the League Cup.

Agree. I want us to win all games and play a strong(ish) side all the time. In the past few years I haven't bothered buying cup tickets as I never thought it worth shelling out for a half arsed effort/team selection. Clearly this season is somewhat different.

You're seriously going with that argument? Seriously?

I don't think I said anything incredibly unrealistic? If we were to finish 7th or 8th it would be another good season, with some star performers. Those players, probably the likes of Tadic, Alderweireld, Clyne etc. would therefore attract a certain amount of interest from bigger clubs. I'm saying that the higher we finish in the league, the more likely it is that we will be able to persuade those sorts of players to stay, hence why I would prioritise the league over the cup at this time.

Can't really think what else you'd take issue with other than the fact that I mentioned player turnover isn't a good thing. In some cases it is, but in my opinion this is rare. It's not often that clubs have 6/7 players all fit in seamlessly as we have done this summer. Clearly that is a positive reflection on the Koeman and the club's ability to integrate new players however we would however be naive to assume that we will get it right everytime.