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Thread: Terrorist Attacks - WARNING: CONTAINS DISTRESSING IMAGES

  1. #6801

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    Quote Originally Posted by sadoldgit View Post
    Once again you make something up to deflect from your own prejudice. All I have ever said is that all rapists are the same and being a Muslim does not make them worse. I have never said that the West caused them to be rapists. If you are going to take some kind of right wing agenda high ground get your facts right first.
    Why do you think that 2% of the UK population are responsible for an absurd percentage of rape gang crimes?

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    Quote Originally Posted by hypochondriac View Post
    Why do you think that 2% of the UK population are responsible for an absurd percentage of rape gang crimes?
    Let’s approach this from a different perspective. You say that youR wife has Muslim relatives. Are any of them or their friends rapists or terrorists?

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    And while we are at it, in your opinion is a Muslim rapist worse than a non Muslim rapist?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sadoldgit View Post
    Let’s approach this from a different perspective. You say that youR wife has Muslim relatives. Are any of them or their friends rapists or terrorists?
    See your tactic is simply to deflect. You're desperate to discuss anything other than the actual point because you don't want to discuss it. I'll repeat again, your attitude is the same one that people on authority have had that has led to this tragedy in the first place. Your attitude is the problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sadoldgit View Post
    And while we are at it, in your opinion is a Muslim rapist worse than a non Muslim rapist?
    It's questions like this that make me think that either you are not very bright or you're doing it on purpose. I know you can answer the question if you try. I believe in you.
    Last edited by hypochondriac; 10-02-2020 at 01:34 PM.

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    If I have a problem it is that I do not see a difference between a Zmuslim rapist and a non Muslim rapist. Neither do I see a difference between a Muslim murderer and a non Muslim murderer. If that makes me in your eyes not very bright, fine. I’d rather be not very bright than to judge someone differently just because of a religion or the colour of their skin.

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    Imagine if groups of white working class blokes were raping and grooming hundreds and hundreds of Muslim chicks, in dozens of towns up and down the country. Soggy and his ilk would be going nuts.


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    Quote Originally Posted by sadoldgit View Post
    If I have a problem it is that I do not see a difference between a Zmuslim rapist and a non Muslim rapist. Neither do I see a difference between a Muslim murderer and a non Muslim murderer. If that makes me in your eyes not very bright, fine. I’d rather be not very bright than to judge someone differently just because of a religion or the colour of their skin.
    You resolutely refuse to answer the question and it's akin to sticking your fingers in your ears and humming loudly because you can't answer it. The attitude you display has led to the rape of tens of thousands of underage young girls. You and people like you have nothing to say about the hugely disproportionate numbers of perpetrators. I suspect you know in reality how ridiculous you look here. Let's hope that the authorities have learnt from this national disgrace and will be doing the opposite of what you are currently doing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Duckhunter View Post
    Imagine if groups of white working class blokes were raping and grooming hundreds and hundreds of Muslim chicks, in dozens of towns up and down the country. Soggy and his ilk would be going nuts.


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    It's utterly bizarre. Even other South Asians have spoken out to condemn this and also to recognise the cultural and religious components to these crimes but far left right-on white men would prefer to turn a blind eye and stay quiet even if it means this takes longer to deal with and more innocent victims get brutalised in the process.

    “I still hear a lot about the authorities aren’t doing things as they should. It’s not very often I hear something good and for all different reasons – if the police won’t act on reports, people feel they’re not being listened to or supported properly, or information not being shared.”

    This is from last year. Why are victims still being ignored and not supported sufficiently? Why do you not consider this an absolute scandal that police have turned a blind eye to rape against children for fear of being called racist?
    Last edited by hypochondriac; 10-02-2020 at 07:16 PM.

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    "A man has been convicted of planning a terror attack at London tourist hotspots, just over a year after he was cleared of attacking police with a sword outside Buckingham Palace."

    At least he was clear as to his motivation;

    "....made a list of what he was going to do when he got to heaven. Top of the list wasn't meeting his maker, though. It was a tour of the palace he assumed he would be given.

    Second on the unmarried chicken shop worker's list was to meet and consummate his relationship with 72 wives.

    Only later - seventh on the list - would he find time to meet God..."

    ( How ungrateful. )

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51449757
    Last edited by badgerx16; 10-02-2020 at 07:21 PM.

  11. #6811

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    Quote Originally Posted by badgerx16 View Post
    "A man has been convicted of planning a terror attack at London tourist hotspots, just over a year after he was cleared of attacking police with a sword outside Buckingham Palace."

    At least he was clear as to his motivation;

    "....made a list of what he was going to do when he got to heaven. Top of the list wasn't meeting his maker, though. It was a tour of the palace he assumed he would be given.

    Second on the unmarried chicken shop worker's list was to meet and consummate his relationship with 72 wives.

    Only later - seventh on the list - would he find time to meet God..."

    ( How ungrateful. )

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51449757
    Beggars belief he was found not guilty when had a sword near Buckingham Palace. Jury full of SOG sorts?

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    Quote Originally Posted by whelk View Post
    Beggars belief he was found not guilty when had a sword near Buckingham Palace. Jury full of SOG sorts?
    Presumably they decided he was part of the ceremonial guard?

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    Quote Originally Posted by badgerx16 View Post
    "A man has been convicted of planning a terror attack at London tourist hotspots, just over a year after he was cleared of attacking police with a sword outside Buckingham Palace."

    At least he was clear as to his motivation;

    "....made a list of what he was going to do when he got to heaven. Top of the list wasn't meeting his maker, though. It was a tour of the palace he assumed he would be given.

    Second on the unmarried chicken shop worker's list was to meet and consummate his relationship with 72 wives.

    Only later - seventh on the list - would he find time to meet God..."

    ( How ungrateful. )

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51449757
    72 Wives!!!!

    **** me, imagine being nagged by that lot. If that’s his idea of life after death, he should be declared criminally insane. What a loon


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    Quote Originally Posted by badgerx16 View Post
    "A man has been convicted of planning a terror attack at London tourist hotspots, just over a year after he was cleared of attacking police with a sword outside Buckingham Palace."

    At least he was clear as to his motivation;

    "....made a list of what he was going to do when he got to heaven. Top of the list wasn't meeting his maker, though. It was a tour of the palace he assumed he would be given.

    Second on the unmarried chicken shop worker's list was to meet and consummate his relationship with 72 wives.

    Only later - seventh on the list - would he find time to meet God..."

    ( How ungrateful. )

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51449757
    Perfectly illustrates just how misogynistic they are

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    Quote Originally Posted by whelk View Post
    Beggars belief he was found not guilty when had a sword near Buckingham Palace. Jury full of SOG sorts?
    Yawn

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Duckhunter View Post
    Imagine if groups of white working class blokes were raping and grooming hundreds and hundreds of Muslim chicks, in dozens of towns up and down the country. Soggy and his ilk would be going nuts.


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    White blokes do groom and rape people. It is sickening whoever does it. Why do you right wing types feel the need to twist someone’s words? Just trying to cover up your prejudices I guess. I will ask the same question I asked the other Muslim haters. Is a Muslim rapist worse than a non Muslim rapist? If so, can you tell me why?

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    Quote Originally Posted by whelk View Post
    Beggars belief he was found not guilty when had a sword near Buckingham Palace. Jury full of SOG sorts?
    You clearly didn’t read my post where I said that terrorists should get life sentences?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sadoldgit View Post
    White blokes do groom and rape people. It is sickening whoever does it. Why do you right wing types feel the need to twist someone’s words? Just trying to cover up your prejudices I guess. I will ask the same question I asked the other Muslim haters. Is a Muslim rapist worse than a non Muslim rapist? If so, can you tell me why?
    If there are similarities between the perpetrators of crime, is it not helpful to look at patterns to see what the causes are and pote tially be more effective at combating it?

    If groups of Japanese men were raping thousands of people at a much higher rate than anyone else do you not think it would be helpful to investigate why?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sadoldgit View Post
    White blokes do groom and rape people. It is sickening whoever does it. Why do you right wing types feel the need to twist someone’s words? Just trying to cover up your prejudices I guess. I will ask the same question I asked the other Muslim haters. Is a Muslim rapist worse than a non Muslim rapist? If so, can you tell me why?
    No and nobody has ever said it is. Is that a conclusive enough answer because you seem determined to find ambiguity where there is none?

    There is a big difference, in mentality at least, between some sicko who commits rape, knowing it’s an abhorrent act but doesn’t care because he’s a violent sex offender and somebody who thinks women should be subservient to him and there is nothing morally wrong with marrying and having sex with a 13 year old girl. There’s no difference to the victim but the fact that somebody can rape a child and believe it’s socially acceptable is incomprehensible to me and needs to be stamped out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lighthouse View Post
    No and nobody has ever said it is. Is that a conclusive enough answer because you seem determined to find ambiguity where there is none?

    There is a big difference, in mentality at least, between some sicko who commits rape, knowing it’s an abhorrent act but doesn’t care because he’s a violent sex offender and somebody who thinks women should be subservient to him and there is nothing morally wrong with marrying and having sex with a 13 year old girl. There’s no difference to the victim but the fact that somebody can rape a child and believe it’s socially acceptable is incomprehensible to me and needs to be stamped out.
    No ambiguity? Why then does a Muslim rapist get more grief than a non Muslim rapist? I don’t see Tommy Robinson standing outside the court when alleged white non Muslim rapists are being charged. Kiddy fiddling has been going on for years and is still going on for years in the Christian church and is still going on. Would you say that the outrage shown is on the same scale? Of course there is ambiguity. Muslims are told they need to do more to stamp this out in their communities. Fair enough, but you don’t hear the same said about sex crimes committed in non Muslims communities by non Muslims. There is a clear prejudice against Muslims just as there is against Jews from some quarters. The difference seems to be that anti-semetism is seen as bad whereas Islamaphobia is seen as more acceptable. And before the usual suspects get all offended you only have to look at the last election where Corbyn got grief for the anti-semitism in the Labour Party yet the same outrage didn’t occur for Johnson for the Islamaphobia within the Tory Party.

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    I agree with your point about having sex with under aged girls. John Peel, David Bowie, Bill Wyman, Robert Plant, Jimmy Page and many more famous people from the 70’s have all had sex with under aged girls yet they are still seen as heroes. Ok for some and not for others?

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    I can’t argue with you because all your perceptions seem to be based around Tommy Robinson and other right wing nutters you follow on social media. There is massive public criticism for white rapist, 1970s sex offenders, Johnson/Tories and the Catholic Church. If you can’t see that and think they’re all getting of Scott free because they aren’t Muslims, I can’t help you.

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    No my perception is around men. Do you think that non Muslim rapists hold women in any higher esteem than Muslim rapists? It is an issue around gender, not religion. The far right seize on the religious aspect of it as it suits their purpose which is to demise foreigners. The far right make a much bigger deal out of sex crimes committed by foreigners. Yes there is an issue with Asian rape gangs. There is also a bigger issue of non Asian sex offenders. Every day hundreds of women are sexually assaulted and raped but they either don’t report the acts or don’t follow through with a prosecution because they are intimidated by our own criminal justice system. Surely this is equally deserving of our outrage? But apart from the occasional media report, no one really cares other than the victims and their friends and family. An Asian gang rape is much more outrage worthy than the far greater number of solitary rapes that are carried out every day. Why? Because they are carried out by “foreigners.” If they groom and rape 20 girls you will hear about it. If during the same period 100 solitary non Muslims rapes happen, you will not know about it. That is not unanimity. A rape or sexual assault is far more likely to be carried out by someone the victims knows than an Asian gang. We should be just as outraged with that.

    Oh, and I don’t follow a Tommy Robinson or any other right wing nutters on social media. Unfortunately these people spill out on other forms of social media, yes, even here. I didn’t even know who Tommy Robinson was until I read about him on a thread here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lighthouse View Post
    I can’t argue with you because all your perceptions seem to be based around Tommy Robinson and other right wing nutters you follow on social media. There is massive public criticism for white rapist, 1970s sex offenders, Johnson/Tories and the Catholic Church. If you can’t see that and think they’re all getting of Scott free because they aren’t Muslims, I can’t help you.
    He won't address the point, it's maddening. I'm not sure he understands the concept of something being disproportionate.

    All rape is wrong, but rape offences amongst other groups- whilst still a problem- are proportionate amongst that population. South Asian Pakistani men make up a tiny percentage of the population yet commit a giant percentage of rape gang crimes. Why is this something not considered to be worth investigating in the hopes of preventing it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by hypochondriac View Post
    Why is this something not considered to be worth investigating in the hopes of preventing it?
    Why do you think its is not being investigated?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sadoldgit View Post
    No my perception is around men.

    What men? All rape is wrong, no one on here at least has claimed otherwise.


    Do you think that non Muslim rapists hold women in any higher esteem than Muslim rapists?

    I think there is a very specific cultural issue that means that proportionally large percentages of Pakistani Muslim men are responsible for the majority of rape gangs in the UK. Testimony has shown that they believe this to be culturally acceptable.

    It is an issue around gender, not religion.


    How on Earth can you make a claim like that with zero evidence? Testimony from the rape gang cases show conclusively that there is both a cultural and a religious link to these grooming gang cases. The sex of the perpetrators may also be a factor but that's just one factor. We know why you are keen to dismiss all other factors and deal in generalities.

    The far right seize on the religious aspect of it as it suits their purpose which is to demise foreigners.

    What about those who have nothing to do with the far right who agree that there are religious and cultural reasons for this? What about fellow Muslims who have spoken out? What about the victims themselves? Sarah Champion? Are they all far right too?

    The far right make a much bigger deal out of sex crimes committed by foreigners.

    Many people- not just far right figures- are making a big deal out of rape gangs because they are committed at a vastly disproportionate rate compared to the population. If white British men were raping at this same disproportionate rate and evidence from testimony suggested that culture and religion was a factor then I'd want to get to the bottom of it wouldnt you?

    Yes there is an issue with Asian rape gangs.

    Yes there is. So we should explore the reasons for that problem shouldnt we.


    There is also a bigger issue of non Asian sex offenders.

    Not as a percentage of the population there isn't. There's also no evidence that I have seen that there is a common cultural or religious factor to non Asian sex offenders. If there is then it should also be investigated but I presume you have proof?

    Every day hundreds of women are sexually assaulted and raped but they either don’t report the acts or don’t follow through with a prosecution because they are intimidated by our own criminal justice system.

    There is an ongoing debate about this. In some areas things have swung too far the other way and alleged victims have been believed fully on flimsy evidence like Carl Beech. There is undoubtedly a balance that needs to be struck. You have said yourself that you have been a victim of false testimony so you should be aware that to simply "listen and believe" is a flawed policy.

    Surely this is equally deserving of our outrage?

    Outrage over the justice system is not the answer.

    But apart from the occasional media report, no one really cares other than the victims and their friends and family.

    It's an entirely separate issue with views on both sides. When it comes to Asian rape gangs, its fairly unanimous that they are bad things which need to be tackled.


    An Asian gang rape is much more outrage worthy than the far greater number of solitary rapes that are carried out every day. Why? Because they are carried out by “foreigners.”


    I'm not just going to repeat myself again. I've already outlined why there is outrage above. The perpetrators here have been treated leniently for years because of their race. How do you feel about that?


    If they groom and rape 20 girls you will hear about it. If during the same period 100 solitary non Muslims rapes happen, you will not know about it. That is not unanimity. A rape or sexual assault is far more likely to be carried out by someone the victims knows than an Asian gang. We should be just as outraged with that.

    How do you not understand this? What part of committing rapes at a wildly disproportionate level are you having trouble with?

    Oh, and I don’t follow a Tommy Robinson or any other right wing nutters on social media. Unfortunately these people spill out on other forms of social media, yes, even here. I didn’t even know who Tommy Robinson was until I read about him on a thread here.
    For someone who claims to know very little about Tommy Robinson, you sure seem to have an awfully solid grasp on his views and opinions.
    Last edited by hypochondriac; 11-02-2020 at 12:16 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aintforever View Post
    Why do you think its is not being investigated?
    Because it wasn't investigated for decades? Because victims were written off and police were afraid of being called racist? Because new grooming scandals involving largely South Asian men are still coming to light even now? Because victims are still coming forward and saying things like this:

    “You hear this bulls*** line, ‘lessons have been learned’, but they haven’t learned anything,” she told The Independent.“I still hear a lot about the authorities aren’t doing things as they should. It’s not very often I hear something good and for all different reasons – if the police won’t act on reports, people feel they’re not being listened to or supported properly, or information not being shared.”
    Ms Woodhouse, who was abused by rapist Arshid Hussain from the age of 14, said the scale of child sexual exploitation currently reported by local councils did not surprise her.
    “I think the most scary thing is all the people it’s happening to that they don’t know about,” she added. “Most won’t report and they go under the radar.
    “I’ve said for years that this country’s in epidemic when it comes to abuse and exploitation. Authorities claim it’s under control but it’s not.”
    Sajid Javid promised in 2018 that there would be an investigation into the "characteristics" of rape gangs but thus far this has failed to materialise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hypochondriac View Post
    Because it wasn't investigated for decades? Because victims were written off and police were afraid of being called racist? Because new grooming scandals involving largely South Asian men are still coming to light even now? Because victims are still coming forward and saying things like this:



    Sajid Javid promised in 2018 that there would be an investigation into the "characteristics" of rape gangs but thus far this has failed to materialise.
    The Rochdale lot were convicted though, so they were investigated - which ones are you talking about?

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    If you had a population consisting of 100,000 white British men and amongst those 100,000 you had 100 people who committed a rape gang crime and then you had 500 South Asian Pakistani men of whom 50 people committed a rape gang crime you wouldn't consider that statistically significant? By soggy's logic, it's not worth paying attention collectively to the second figure because less crimes have been committed. That's before you even consider cultural and religious factor

    Obviously I'm exaggerating to make a point but it's simply bizarre that you can't see why this would be worthy of investigation. It seems to me that you've simply written off investigating this because you've decided it's something the "far right" believes so you can't even countenance it.
    Last edited by hypochondriac; 11-02-2020 at 12:42 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aintforever View Post
    The Rochdale lot were convicted though, so they were investigated - which ones are you talking about?
    Yeah. They were convicted so what’s everyone’s issue!

    Deary me!

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    Quote Originally Posted by hypochondriac View Post
    If you had a population consisting of 100,000 white British men and amongst those 100,000 you had 100 people who committed a sex crime and then you had 500 South Asian Pakistani men of whom 50 people committed a sex crime you wouldn't consider that statistically significant? By soggy's logic, it's not worth paying attention collectively to the second figure because less crimes have been committed. That's before you even consider cultural and religious factors.

    Obviously I'm exaggerating to make a point but it's simply bizarre that you can't see why this would be worthy of investigation. It seems to me that you've simply written off investigating this because you've decided it's something the "far right" believes so you can't even countenance it.
    Do you have any evidence at all that rape is more prevalent amongst Pakistani men? There was a particular issue with grooming and rape gangs which is obviously highly newsworthy. That is absolutely no indication that Pakistani men rape more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aintforever View Post
    The Rochdale lot were convicted though, so they were investigated - which ones are you talking about?
    Rotherham? Huddersfield? Telford? Oxfordshire? There's also been reports in Manchester and the speculation is that the true numbers of victims are far higher given their reluctance to go the police (is it any wonder.) Given the frequency that these have been uncovered in the last couple of years, there will undoubtedly be more brought to light eventually. It has taken decades and people have lost their jobs to even get to the point it is now. Here's another example:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...ited-grooming/

    Following a two-year inquiry, commissioned by Greater Manchester mayor Andy Burnham, into the historic failings of police and social workers, a report was published today which concluded that vulnerable girls in care were groomed and abused in "plain sight". The report found multiple failings at the hands of GMP, including how fears over race relations appear to have played a part in senior police thinking when tackling grooming gangs comprised of predominantly Asian men.
    It added that officers were aware of "many sensitive community issues" around policing in south Manchester in 2002 and 2003.
    People who allowed this are yet to be prosecuted, I'd like to see some justice against those who covered this up and I'd like to see an investigation into the characteristics of those involved as was promised in 2018 but is yet to arrive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by buctootim View Post
    Do you have any evidence at all that rape is more prevalent amongst Pakistani men? There was a particular issue with grooming and rape gangs which is obviously highly newsworthy. That is absolutely no indication that Pakistani men rape more.
    Apologies if my point wasn't clear. Please substitute "sex crime" for "rape gang crime" and the point still stands. Plenty of evidence to suggest that Pakistani men are more likely to be involved with a rape gang but the likes of soggy don't think it's worth exploring the reasons for this.
    Last edited by hypochondriac; 11-02-2020 at 12:48 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Batman View Post
    Yeah. They were convicted so what’s everyone’s issue!

    Deary me!
    The issue is obvious, Hypo seems to think the police are not investigating it, though they clearly are now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aintforever View Post
    The issue is obvious, Hypo seems to think the police are not investigating it, though they clearly are now.
    My point is that:

    A) A culture of political correctness and a view that these young girls were responsible themselves meant that these crimes have not been reported for decades and

    B) That victims are reporting that these gangs are still operating now, and the suspicion is that many are still to be uncovered (and given how many have come to light very recently that's pretty likely).

    I'm obviously quite glad that people are finally being prosecuted but it's almost an unprecedented failure in this country that it's taken so long and allowed so many lives to get ruined. There should be a proper investigation looking into the causes of this and learning lessons so there isn't a repeat. Javid tentatively promised something in 2018 but it hasn't arrived.
    Last edited by hypochondriac; 11-02-2020 at 12:51 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hypochondriac View Post
    My point is that:

    A) A culture of political correctness and a view that these young girls were responsible themselves meant that these crimes have not been reported for decades and

    B) That victims are reporting that these gangs are still operating now, and the suspicion is that many are still to be uncovered (and given how many have come to light very recently that's pretty likely).

    I'm obviously quite glad that people are finally being prosecuted but it's almost an unprecedented failure in this country that it's taken so long and allowed so many lives to get ruined. There should be a proper investigation looking into the causes of this and learning lessons so there isn't a repeat. Javid tentatively promised something in 2018 but it hasn't arrived.
    From what I read the Police seem pretty determined not to repeat their past failures for this sort of thing, it's be so high profile.

    I guess you want a similar investigation into why choir boys tend to get buggered by mainly white, Christian priests?

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    Quote Originally Posted by aintforever View Post
    From what I read the Police seem pretty determined not to repeat their past failures for this sort of thing, it's be so high profile.

    I guess you want a similar investigation into why choir boys tend to get buggered by mainly white, Christian priests?
    Absolutely, particularly if there's a religious and cultural reason for the sexual abuse.

    Regarding the polices determination, that remains to be seen but given the failings up to this point, I'm sceptical that they will solve this issue.
    Last edited by hypochondriac; 11-02-2020 at 01:09 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hypochondriac View Post
    Absolutely, particularly if there's a religious and cultural reason for the sexual abuse.
    Agree, that's just as important.

    Some people seem obsessed with the Muslim thing though - don't seem to bang on about white Christian rapists quite as much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aintforever View Post
    Agree, that's just as important.

    Some people seem obsessed with the Muslim thing though - don't seem to bang on about white Christian rapists quite as much.
    Not that I’m defending Christian sex offences in any way but I think there’s a general perception that these were carried out almost entirely by priests and not your day to day, man on the street Christians. Without knowing any stats, to me it seems like sexual predators exploiting their position of authority within the church to gain access to choir boys and those at religious boarding schools etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lighthouse View Post
    Not that I’m defending Christian sex offences in any way but I think there’s a general perception that these were carried out almost entirely by priests and not your day to day, man on the street Christians. Without knowing any stats, to me it seems like sexual predators exploiting their position of authority within the church to gain access to choir boys and those at religious boarding schools etc.
    That does seem to be the case. The impression is that among certain sections of South Asian society it appears to be more culturally acceptable to abuse poor white girls because they have lesser value. There appears to be a cultural dimension to the abuse that should be subject to greater scrutiny. Lets hope that investigation takes place.

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    I haven’t read in any religious books that it says that rape and sexual assault is ok. Let’s not confuse misogyny for religious doctrine. Rape is rape. It doesn’t suddenly become a worse crime because someone sticks a religious label on it, unless it is someone with an agenda. The Christian clergy would still be kiddy fiddlers even if they weren’t members of the clergy. The Asian members of rape gangs aren’t grooming and raping girls because they are Muslims. They are doing it because they are sexual predators. It seems odd that the overwhelming majority of Muslims do not commit rape if their religion is telling them that is what they must do. Islam doesn’t have the monopoly on sexual predators, nor does it have the monopoly on misogyny. Those pretending that somehow it is worse clearly have an anti Muslim agenda.

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    I'm not going to bother responding to soggy on this point any more he's just reading what he wants to read. He's an ignoramus.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hypochondriac View Post
    That does seem to be the case. The impression is that among certain sections of South Asian society it appears to be more culturally acceptable to abuse poor white girls because they have lesser value. There appears to be a cultural dimension to the abuse that should be subject to greater scrutiny. Lets hope that investigation takes place.
    It is a cultural dimension more than religious one. Its tied to the views of poorly educated people from predominantly rural Pakistan - that women who go out unaccompanied, wear revealing clothes and drink are 'easy virtue' and so fair game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lighthouse View Post
    Not that I’m defending Christian sex offences in any way but I think there’s a general perception that these were carried out almost entirely by priests and not your day to day, man on the street Christians. Without knowing any stats, to me it seems like sexual predators exploiting their position of authority within the church to gain access to choir boys and those at religious boarding schools etc.
    Different cases but both people exploiting vulnerable youngsters, both with a religious element.

    If it was Imams buggering kids don't you think certain people on here would be banging on about it a bit more?

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    Quote Originally Posted by buctootim View Post
    It is a cultural dimension more than religious one. Its tied to the views of poorly educated people from predominantly rural Pakistan - that women who go out unaccompanied, wear revealing clothes and drink are 'easy virtue' and so fair game.
    I think that's debatable but culture certainly plays a part. Some of the perpetrators were quoting religious scripture whilst engaging in the abuse and using it as justification for the acts. I think a proper impartial investigation including hearing from practising Muslims who believe it is at least partly due to an interpretation of Islam would be beneficial.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aintforever View Post
    Different cases but both people exploiting vulnerable youngsters, both with a religious element.

    If it was Imams buggering kids don't you think certain people on here would be banging on about it a bit more?
    Like you say, the cases are different and we aren't taking about imams so that's just speculation.

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    By far the biggest sexual offenders in this country are white. Some individuals might quote lines from their holy scriptures, some might sing Beatles songs. Focussing on a small element only goes to prove that there is an agenda. Rape and sexual assaults are predominately carried out by males, and mostly white males in the UK. Those with an agenda will dig down into individual cases all they want to try and show that it is a particular problem of one religion, but that is deliberately missing the point. Women have been sexually assaulted by men of all races and creeds since time began. It is not just a problem with Muslims.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hypochondriac View Post
    I'm not going to bother responding to soggy on this point any more he's just reading what he wants to read. He's an ignoramus.
    And you have an anti Muslim agenda.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hypochondriac View Post
    That does seem to be the case. The impression is that among certain sections of South Asian society it appears to be more culturally acceptable to abuse poor white girls because they have lesser value. There appears to be a cultural dimension to the abuse that should be subject to greater scrutiny. Lets hope that investigation takes place.
    But no investigation into why 85% of the sexual offenders who happen to be white do it? How much do you know about the girls who were groomed by the gangs here? It would appear that in one case they were constantly hanging around a fast food shop. Maybe familiarity and availability had more to do with it other than they were “poor white girls” of “lesser value.” You might be too young to remember the first floods of British tourists to Spain but the Spanish guys loved it. Shed loads of drunk British girls ripe for picking. Predators go for the easiest pray.

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    From a Newcastle grooming gang court case, the judge concluded that the gang selected their victims “not because of their race, but because they young, impressionable, naive and vulnerable.” Their victims included girls with learning difficulties and mental health issues.

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