Turkish Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 20 hours ago, egg said: Why, for me, because the lurch was daft and unnecessary, and it also reeks of hypocrisy (more so from duck to be fair) given the grief SoG gets for less. Fully deserved imo. Playing devils advocate here can you really blame people for assuming it was an islamist attack? For a few years whenever there was an attack like this everyone was told not to jump to conclusions etc only for the vast majority of the time for it to then turn out it was, given what's going on in Gaza at the moment for many people it would be the automatic response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecuk268 Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 20 minutes ago, Turkish said: Playing devils advocate here can you really blame people for assuming it was an islamist attack? For a few years whenever there was an attack like this everyone was told not to jump to conclusions etc only for the vast majority of the time for it to then turn out it was, given what's going on in Gaza at the moment for many people it would be the automatic response. https://newsthump.com/2024/04/15/wailing-simpletons-feeling-bereft-after-learning-that-sydney-attacker-wasnt-an-islamist/ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 1 minute ago, ecuk268 said: https://newsthump.com/2024/04/15/wailing-simpletons-feeling-bereft-after-learning-that-sydney-attacker-wasnt-an-islamist/ well done on link a satirical website to what is actually a very serious point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheaf Saint Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 27 minutes ago, Turkish said: Playing devils advocate here can you really blame people for assuming it was an islamist attack? For a few years whenever there was an attack like this everyone was told not to jump to conclusions etc only for the vast majority of the time for it to then turn out it was, given what's going on in Gaza at the moment for many people it would be the automatic response. Yes, because although there is always a reasonable chance that is the motive when these things happen, it says an awful lot about someone when they just lazily assume it must be rather than waiting for facts to emerge. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 (edited) 45 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said: Yes, because although there is always a reasonable chance that is the motive when these things happen, it says an awful lot about someone when they just lazily assume it must be rather than waiting for facts to emerge. My point is that the mantra for a long time was wait for the facts, dont make assumptions then it turned out to be an islamist anyway. I know some of you want to jump and up and down and scream people who respond this way are racist and says a lot about them but is it it really a stretch to think that having heard the same thing over and over again they'd expect a different result? Edited April 15 by Turkish 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheaf Saint Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 8 minutes ago, Turkish said: My point is that the mantra for a long time was wait for the facts, dont make assumptions then it turned out to be an islamist anyway. I know some of you want to jump and up and down and scream people who respond this way are racist and says a lot about them but is it it really a stretch to think that having heard the same thing over and over again they'd and expect a different result? It's not even about them being racist. It's about them wanting to be seen as being right about something they know nothing about. I remember when the news was breaking about Anders Breivik and numerous people were losing their shit about another Islamist attack, and when that turned out to be untrue there was some serious rowing back going on (like "well, it's a fair assumption") to try and save face about being wrong. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 47 minutes ago, Turkish said: Playing devils advocate here can you really blame people for assuming it was an islamist attack? For a few years whenever there was an attack like this everyone was told not to jump to conclusions etc only for the vast majority of the time for it to then turn out it was, given what's going on in Gaza at the moment for many people it would be the automatic response. Yep. Duck and Batman both made wild assumptions. Sadly some people like to assume, and point the finger, at certain groups. No need for it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecuk268 Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 27 minutes ago, Turkish said: well done on link a satirical website to what is actually a very serious point. You think that racism should be beyond satire? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 2 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said: It's not even about them being racist. It's about them wanting to be seen as being right about something they know nothing about. I remember when the news was breaking about Anders Breivik and numerous people were losing their shit about another Islamist attack, and when that turned out to be untrue there was some serious rowing back going on (like "well, it's a fair assumption") to try and save face about being wrong. You could say the same for those on the other side of the argument though? Almost a relief that it wasn't islam. 1 minute ago, egg said: Yep. Duck and Batman both made wild assumptions. Sadly some people like to assume, and point the finger, at certain groups. No need for it. was it really a wild assumption? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pingpong Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 49 minutes ago, Turkish said: Playing devils advocate here can you really blame people for assuming it was an islamist attack? For a few years whenever there was an attack like this everyone was told not to jump to conclusions etc only for the vast majority of the time for it to then turn out it was, given what's going on in Gaza at the moment for many people it would be the automatic response. Do you have any data to back up "vast majority"? Just looking at some US data, and the majority of their attacks have been from right wing extremists for every single year for the last 20 years. I would be interested to see that data if you have any. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted April 15 Author Share Posted April 15 Just now, egg said: Yep. Duck and Batman both made wild assumptions. Sadly some people like to assume, and point the finger, at certain groups. No need for it. Not only were the Sydney police quick to dispel any idea that the motive of the attack was extremist terrorism (if anything he was targeting women) but here is the kicker, the one male killed was security guard Faraz Tahir. Faraz was a Muslim immigrant from Pakistan. You won’t hear that from Batman though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 3 minutes ago, pingpong said: Do you have any data to back up "vast majority"? Just looking at some US data, and the majority of their attacks have been from right wing extremists for every single year for the last 20 years. I would be interested to see that data if you have any. The data you are asking for would be impossible to find. You're asking for how many terror attacks have there been where the mantra has been "dont jump to conclusions about it being islam" and it's ended up being Islam anyway. I can certainly remember at least half a dozen like this over the last few years. But if you want to go looking for this data fill your boots up pal. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 (edited) Amazing how many anti Catholic people there were in the 80s when a bomb went off suspecting it was the IRA when nothing was known. Edited April 15 by whelk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan The Flames Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 14 hours ago, whelk said: Really got under your skin haven’t I? Maybe not the best place for a sensitive soul like you. Screaming am I? Bless you Not under my skin mate, just a bit bored of your posts, and sure enough to prove a point I knew your answer would include a 'bless'. You used to be good. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloucester Saint Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 Getting the thread back on track…NSW Police believe the driver was misogyny but from a very disturbed mind. His family have to some extent backed this up and also confirmed he stopped taking his medication recently which does hint at paranoid schizophrenia https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-68814395 The authorities really do need to move away from the purely care in the community model, and blend that personalised support model for independent living with some monitoring, tracking and enforcement where needed. Not everyone with PS will be diagnosed so not 100% foolproof but a lot more can be done to help PS diagnosed folks, their families and significantly reduce the risks of fatal attacks. The one man of the six killed was a Muslim migrant from Pakistan trying to shield/save women and children from the attacker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rallyboy Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 Hate-peddler Rachel Riley needs sacking - she comes across as a deeply unpleasant consonant, vowel, consonant...and another consonant. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 (edited) Another stabbing in Sydney this time a bishop in his church was the target, and several others injured tackling the attacker. Edited April 15 by badgerx16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 1 hour ago, whelk said: Amazing how many anti Catholic people there were in the 80s when a bomb went off suspecting it was the IRA when nothing was known. Wtf has that got to do with assuming the victims to be Jewish and/or the perpetrators to be Muslim before any of the facts were known? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 33 minutes ago, rallyboy said: Hate-peddler Rachel Riley needs sacking - she comes across as a deeply unpleasant consonant, vowel, consonant...and another consonant. 4 minutes ago, egg said: Wtf has that got to do with assuming the victims to be Jewish and/or the perpetrators to be Muslim before any of the facts were known? It illustrates that some saps cannot process information and fear being labelled a bigot and indeed label those that suspect the most likely outcome to be bigot. You brough up people fetching biscuits for the IRA so thought you might be able to follow an analogy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 35 minutes ago, rallyboy said: Hate-peddler Rachel Riley needs sacking - she comes across as a deeply unpleasant consonant, vowel, consonant...and another consonant. Does her Jewishness bother you? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 3 minutes ago, egg said: Wtf has that got to do with assuming the victims to be Jewish and/or the perpetrators to be Muslim before any of the facts were known? I expect his point is that in the 80s lots of bombings were committed by the IRA so if there had been a bombing incident it wouldn't have been outlandish to make an assumption about who was behind it. Just because it subsequently turns out not to be them doesn't make the original assumption a racist one. I personally tend to avoid speculation about the perpetrators before facts are known nowadays but everybody thinks about what it could be because often it is someone shouting Allahu Akbar. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 1 hour ago, Fan The Flames said: Not under my skin mate, just a bit bored of your posts, and sure enough to prove a point I knew your answer would include a 'bless'. You used to be good. And there’s me desperate to keep you interested and keep my post levels to a high standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 14 minutes ago, whelk said: It illustrates that some saps cannot process information and fear being labelled a bigot and indeed label those that suspect the most likely outcome to be bigot. You brough up people fetching biscuits for the IRA so thought you might be able to follow an analogy Nonsense approach. The IRA were active on mainland Britain and certain assumptions were reasonable at the time. That's a tad different to a random attack in Australia. Duck and Batman were out of line. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 2 hours ago, Turkish said: was it really a wild assumption? Yes. Did you honestly hear about the incident and think those poor victims must have been Jewish, killed by some islamist nutter? I sure as hell didn't. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 1 hour ago, rallyboy said: Hate-peddler Rachel Riley needs sacking - she comes across as a deeply unpleasant consonant, vowel, consonant...and another consonant. Rachel Riley? Sack? I've got a punchline but probably best if I keep it to myself... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 (edited) 23 minutes ago, egg said: Yes. Did you honestly hear about the incident and think those poor victims must have been Jewish, killed by some islamist nutter? I sure as hell didn't. No but unlike LD i've never been there and didn't know the area had a large Jewish community given what's going on in the world at the moment and this information i wouldn't say it was a wild assumption. Edited April 15 by Turkish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pingpong Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 3 hours ago, Turkish said: The data you are asking for would be impossible to find. You're asking for how many terror attacks have there been where the mantra has been "dont jump to conclusions about it being islam" and it's ended up being Islam anyway. I can certainly remember at least half a dozen like this over the last few years. But if you want to go looking for this data fill your boots up pal. No, I'm just looking for the data that the vast majority of terrorist attacks in the last, say 20 years, are by islamists. We are working from the premise that we were told not to make assumptions but that in the vast majority of cases we would have been right to point at Muslims. I'm struggling to find it, I just keep running into usa data which is showing religion as secondary to right wing ideologies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 3 minutes ago, pingpong said: No, I'm just looking for the data that the vast majority of terrorist attacks in the last, say 20 years, are by islamists. We are working from the premise that we were told not to make assumptions but that in the vast majority of cases we would have been right to point at Muslims. I'm struggling to find it, I just keep running into usa data which is showing religion as secondary to right wing ideologies. List of UK terror attacks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in_Great_Britain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 5 minutes ago, pingpong said: No, I'm just looking for the data that the vast majority of terrorist attacks in the last, say 20 years, are by islamists. We are working from the premise that we were told not to make assumptions but that in the vast majority of cases we would have been right to point at Muslims. I'm struggling to find it, I just keep running into usa data which is showing religion as secondary to right wing ideologies. TBF this is a couple of years old but it looks like Far left terror was the major cause of terrorist incidents and deaths although Islamic groups are the largest groups who commit terrorism which is maybe why they are so easily brought to mind when incidents like this occur: Global Terrorism Index 2022: Key findings in 6 Charts - ISD (isdglobal.org) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 1 minute ago, hypochondriac said: s although Islamic groups are the largest groups who commit terrorism which is maybe why they are so easily brought to mind when incidents like this occur: If I was asked to think of recent terrorist atrocities in Uk that I can remember would be 7/7, Manchester Arena bombing, Borough Market, London Bridge and the park in Reading - although not sure if that was just a nutter who hated gays. Outside of Uk in western countries would be Paris (this thread) the lorry on Nice beach, the NZ right wing cunt, Tunisian beach and the recent Moscow one. Sure there must be many that I cannot recall but being a right wing bigot I mostly only remember the Islamist ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 (edited) 19 minutes ago, pingpong said: No, I'm just looking for the data that the vast majority of terrorist attacks in the last, say 20 years, are by islamists. We are working from the premise that we were told not to make assumptions but that in the vast majority of cases we would have been right to point at Muslims. I'm struggling to find it, I just keep running into usa data which is showing religion as secondary to right wing ideologies. What you are asking for isnt what i was saying. i never claimed the vast majority of terrorist attacks were caused by islamists. You're making that up Edited April 15 by Turkish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheaf Saint Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 26 minutes ago, Turkish said: What you are asking for isnt what i was saying. i never claimed the vast majority of terrorist attacks were caused by islamists. You're making that up It's literally there in your post from earlier today... 5 hours ago, Turkish said: Playing devils advocate here can you really blame people for assuming it was an islamist attack? For a few years whenever there was an attack like this everyone was told not to jump to conclusions etc only for the vast majority of the time for it to then turn out it was, given what's going on in Gaza at the moment for many people it would be the automatic response. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 Just now, whelk said: If I was asked to think of recent terrorist atrocities in Uk that I can remember would be 7/7, Manchester Arena bombing, Borough Market, London Bridge and the park in Reading - although not sure if that was just a nutter who hated gays. Outside of Uk in western countries would be Paris (this thread) the lorry on Nice beach, the NZ right wing cunt, Tunisian beach and the recent Moscow one. Sure there must be many that I cannot recall but being a right wing bigot I mostly only remember the Islamist ones. There was the bloke who killed the MP but I'm not sure murdering one person is quite the same- as horrible as it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 Just now, Sheaf Saint said: It's literally there in your post from earlier today... TBF he didn't say terrorism he said "attacks like this" ie indiscriminate killing in heavily populated civillian areas. The vast majority of the time in recent years that tends to be an Islamist nutter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheaf Saint Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 1 minute ago, hypochondriac said: TBF he didn't say terrorism he said "attacks like this" ie indiscriminate killing in heavily populated civillian areas. The vast majority of the time in recent years that tends to be an Islamist nutter. Is that not the very definition of a terrorist attack then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said: Is that not the very definition of a terrorist attack then? No: "the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims." Indiscriminate killing of multiple people in heavily populated civillian areas is one type of terrorism and the majority of high profile cases of this in the past decade or two is Islamist in nature with the odd right wing and left wing scumbag thrown in. Edited April 15 by hypochondriac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan The Flames Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 1 hour ago, hypochondriac said: TBF this is a couple of years old but it looks like Far left terror was the major cause of terrorist incidents and deaths although Islamic groups are the largest groups who commit terrorism which is maybe why they are so easily brought to mind when incidents like this occur: Global Terrorism Index 2022: Key findings in 6 Charts - ISD (isdglobal.org) Interested in what the far left incidents in the west could be, any ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 (edited) 2 hours ago, egg said: Yes. Did you honestly hear about the incident and think those poor victims must have been Jewish, killed by some islamist nutter I didn’t mention anything about Islam or islamists. However much you wish I did, I didn’t. Edited April 15 by Lord Duckhunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 13 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said: Interested in what the far left incidents in the west could be, any ideas. I was genuinely surprised by that figure. If I had to guess I would say stuff like antifa violence and I remember a few shootings in America but not much in the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 13 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said: Interested in what the far left incidents in the west could be, any ideas. I was genuinely surprised by that figure. If I had to guess I would say stuff like antifa violence and I remember a few shootings in America but not much in the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted April 15 Author Share Posted April 15 1 hour ago, hypochondriac said: TBF this is a couple of years old but it looks like Far left terror was the major cause of terrorist incidents and deaths although Islamic groups are the largest groups who commit terrorism which is maybe why they are so easily brought to mind when incidents like this occur: Global Terrorism Index 2022: Key findings in 6 Charts - ISD (isdglobal.org) TBF the point being made here is that some posters have an unhealthy obsession with immediately picking up wrong doing by Muslims whilst completely ignoring it when others do the same or similar. Batman being the main culprit. Who can forget his obsession with Asian rape gangs yet never a peep from him when white people were/are involved. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 When does a mass killing become an act of terrorism ? Given the number of such events in the US it must distort the statistics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 Turkish making a right twat of himself! 🤣 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 49 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said: I didn’t mention anything about Islam or islamists. However much you wish I did, I didn’t. It's been covered up there Duck. You speculated that the victims were probably Jewish, and that was the motivation. Don't try to now suggest that you meant that some Christian nutters would have done that. Daft wriggling. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 9 minutes ago, badgerx16 said: When does a mass killing become an act of terrorism ? Given the number of such events in the US it must distort the statistics. Probably. It's mainly to do with the motivation being a political or religious ideology which to be fair you could argue is any killing except accidental. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 41 minutes ago, hypochondriac said: I was genuinely surprised by that figure. If I had to guess I would say stuff like antifa violence and I remember a few shootings in America but not much in the UK. Where were the figures Hypo? I'd be interested to see them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 6 minutes ago, egg said: Where were the figures Hypo? I'd be interested to see them. It was this graph: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 8 minutes ago, hypochondriac said: It was this graph: Cheers 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 (edited) 3 hours ago, Sheaf Saint said: It's literally there in your post from earlier today... It literally isnt As I told you i said the times people were told not to jump to conclusions over the last few years and the majority of times it turned out to be Islamic, it’s pretty fucking clearly stated in the bit you ignored. I even clarified it on my reply to you a few posts later! The total amount of terror attacks in the last 20 years, that was an arbitrary timescale and point someone else came up with. I never once said the vast majority of all attacks were by islam sorry you didn’t read it properly, I thought you were better than that. maybe you should have read the full post. I see Sog struggled too but that’s no surprise given he’s definitely got me on ignore and all that Edited April 15 by Turkish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 (edited) 1 hour ago, benjii said: Turkish making a right twat of himself! 🤣 I think you’ll find it’s other people not reading things properly not for the first time . 🤦 Edited April 15 by Turkish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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