View Poll Results: Saints Web Definitely Not Official Second Referendum

Voters
158. You may not vote on this poll
  • Leave Before - Leave Now

    35 22.15%
  • Leave Before - Remain Now

    8 5.06%
  • Leave Before - Not Bothered Now

    2 1.27%
  • Remain Before - Remain Now

    88 55.70%
  • Remain Before - Leave Now

    6 3.80%
  • Remain Before - Not Bothered Now

    0 0%
  • Not Bothered Before - Leave Now

    3 1.90%
  • Not Bothered Before - Remain Now

    4 2.53%
  • I've never been bothered - Why am I on this Thread?

    2 1.27%
  • No second Ref - 2016 was Definitive and Binding

    10 6.33%
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Thread: Brexit - Enter at Your Own Risk

  1. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Tender View Post
    That's very sensible. How about Gavyn? What do you reckon, Norway style deal a possibility? Any takers apart from Timmy?
    Stephen Glover writes in The Mail today ďIf they can't grasp how enormously things have changed, they have a shock coming to them.Ē He wrote it about The Eu, but I think it should apply to some of the remoaners on here.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  2. #16052

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Tender View Post
    That's very sensible. How about Gavyn? What do you reckon, Norway style deal a possibility? Any takers apart from Timmy?
    Blimey Les. You really are a mess. Why on earth are you banging on about a Norway style deal? Is there a history of autism in your family?


    Tell me. Who do you think will win the Premier League this season and who would you like to see win the Premier League this season?

  3. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tamesaint View Post
    Blimey Les. You really are a mess. Why on earth are you banging on about a Norway style deal? Is there a history of autism in your family?


    Tell me. Who do you think will win the Premier League this season and who would you like to see win the Premier League this season?
    Classy using autism as an insult.

  4. #16054

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    Quote Originally Posted by whelk View Post
    Classy using autism as an insult.
    It was a genuine question. Les's obsession about something like a Norway style deal is a classic sign of autism. Apologies if that offended you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Duckhunter View Post
    Stephen Glover writes in The Mail today ďIf they can't grasp how enormously things have changed, they have a shock coming to them.Ē He wrote it about The Eu, but I think it should apply to some of the remoaners on here.

    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Yes, I think so too. They seem to think that we still have the incompetent negotiating team of May and Robbins in charge and that we will fold at the last minute because they mistakenly believe us to bluffing when we say that we will leave with no deal if we don't get a FTA we are happy with. They remind me of the Japanese soldiers deep in he jungle who haven't realised that the war is over.

    Chief among the remoaners on here who doesn't accept that our position has improved immeasurably, is Gavyn, who diminishes the gravity of his pronouncements by littering them with playground level insults. He is full of opinion as to what we want out of the negotiations and indeed what we don't want, as if he is still as close to the government inner circles as he was in the Blair era. I very much doubt that he is, so he is just expressing opinions based on listening to the views of others who he believes have some inside knowledge, which is what we do on the other side. Boris has apparently painted himself into a corner by stating that the deadline will not be extended beyond 31st December, is one point of view. The other is that Boris has painted the EU into a corner. The EU has stipulated its conditions, so have we. The ball is in their court, and for the first time we have a very strong hand. If the EU fail to recognise that, then more fool them.

    Ultimately itís all moot. Itís a negotiation and each side can demand what it likes as it perceives its own interests
    This is the only really relevant part of Gavyn's little diatribe above. It is futile raking over old coals from during May's time in office, as the whole political landscape has changed since then and the sooner the EU recognise that, the sooner a mutually beneficial solution can be agreed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tamesaint View Post
    Is there a history of autism in your family?
    You really are a piece of work, aren't you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by whelk View Post
    Classy using autism as an insult.
    But it's ok when MLG is called it, yes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fan The Flames View Post
    But it's ok when MLG is called it, yes.
    Tbf that's not an insult, he genuinely is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CB Fry View Post
    We're just like Canada we are.
    That graph is being widely mocked and criticised for being at best misleading.

  10. #16060

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Tender View Post
    You really are a piece of work, aren't you?
    Amazing. Les can make a post which isn't several paragraphs long and doesn't turn everyone asleep.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hypochondriac View Post
    That graph is being widely mocked and criticised for being at best misleading.
    Yes, apparently the UK trade with the EU is shown as 16 times the size of Japan's, whereas it should be only four times bigger. It must be because we are very close to the EU, whereas Japan is on the other side of the World, so the Japan dot looks so much smaller because it is much further away.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXypyrutq_M

  12. #16062

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tamesaint View Post
    Amazing. Les can make a post which isn't several paragraphs long and doesn't turn everyone asleep.
    I have told you many, many times before. Stop bleating and put me on ignore. See, another short post and to the point.

    PS "turn everyone asleep" - poor grammar.

  13. #16063

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Tender View Post
    I have told you many, many times before. Stop bleating and put me on ignore. See, another short post and to the point.

    PS "turn everyone asleep" - poor grammar.
    Why should I put you on ignore?? I find you so amusing.

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    Edit
    Last edited by shurlock; 20-02-2020 at 09:44 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Tender View Post
    Yes, I think so too. They seem to think that we still have the incompetent negotiating team of May and Robbins in charge and that we will fold at the last minute because they mistakenly believe us to bluffing when we say that we will leave with no deal if we don't get a FTA we are happy with. They remind me of the Japanese soldiers deep in he jungle who haven't realised that the war is over.

    Chief among the remoaners on here who doesn't accept that our position has improved immeasurably, is Gavyn, who diminishes the gravity of his pronouncements by littering them with playground level insults. He is full of opinion as to what we want out of the negotiations and indeed what we don't want, as if he is still as close to the government inner circles as he was in the Blair era. I very much doubt that he is, so he is just expressing opinions based on listening to the views of others who he believes have some inside knowledge, which is what we do on the other side. Boris has apparently painted himself into a corner by stating that the deadline will not be extended beyond 31st December, is one point of view. The other is that Boris has painted the EU into a corner. The EU has stipulated its conditions, so have we. The ball is in their court, and for the first time we have a very strong hand. If the EU fail to recognise that, then more fool them.



    This is the only really relevant part of Gavyn's little diatribe above. It is futile raking over old coals from during May's time in office, as the whole political landscape has changed since then and the sooner the EU recognise that, the sooner a mutually beneficial solution can be agreed.
    If the UK doesn’t secure frictionless trade and passporting (now renamed permanent equivalence) and all the other things that Brexiters claimed were perfectly feasible, the UK will have failed in its negotiations. Time to deliver instead of climbing down pal.
    Last edited by shurlock; 20-02-2020 at 09:49 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tamesaint View Post
    Why should I put you on ignore?? I find you so amusing.
    On the one hand my posts are too long and send you to sleep. On the other hand you find them amusing. Make your mind up. You seem confused.

  17. #16067

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Tender View Post
    On the one hand my posts are too long and send you to sleep. On the other hand you find them amusing. Make your mind up. You seem confused.
    Not at all. The intensity of your dislike for "Remoaners" and your humourless passion for the Brexit cause are amusing. The droning style of your posts turn me and I dare say most other people to sleep.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tamesaint View Post
    Not at all. The intensity of your dislike for "Remoaners" and your humourless passion for the Brexit cause are amusing. The droning style of your posts turn me and I dare say most other people to sleep.
    Either go to sleep, or burst out laughing. As I say, make your mind up. I accept the position of those remainers who for their own reasons voted to stay in the EU, it was their choice. I have nothing but contempt for those remoaners who can't accept the democratic referendum vote to leave and who constantly bleat like spoilt children about how unfair it all is and how they hope that the UK fares badly in our negotiations so that they can say that they told us so.

    Does passion for a cause have to be accompanied with humour? I never knew. If it is serious, i.e. lacking in humour, is it then amusing? You contradict yourself in every other sentence. As I say, you're confused.

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    Here's the corrected graph with the US and China added in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hypochondriac View Post
    Here's the corrected graph with the US and China added in.
    Do the Russian and Swiss bubbles look as if they are less than half the size of the UK one, and the Japanese one a quarter the size, ( which they should be ).

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    Quote Originally Posted by hypochondriac View Post
    Here's the corrected graph with the US and China added in.
    Not sure what point this is trying to make.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shurlock View Post
    Not sure what point this is trying to make.
    I guess it shows that the EU, whilst striking a deal with Canada, has completely failed in getting anything important with two major trading partners, who are a similar distance away?

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    Quote Originally Posted by shurlock View Post
    Not sure what point this is trying to make.
    Does it show that despite being huge trading blocks US and China do 'relatively' little trade with EU, not vastly more than UK does, one possible reason being that they are a long way away?
    Any trade lost from the current setup will need to be replaced by trade with those other blue balls, many of which are geographically distant.
    The size of the UK's ball vis-a-vis the EU cuts both ways, but it's hard to see from this graphic how we hold all the cards.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hypochondriac View Post
    Here's the corrected graph with the US and China added in.
    So what you're saying is geography and frictionless trade really does matter? Despite having economies around 8 times bigger the US and China have only slightly more trade with the EU. To avoid losing this advantage the UK should maintain frictionless trade. Is that your point?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Bognor View Post
    I guess it shows that the EU, whilst striking a deal with Canada, has completely failed in getting anything important with two major trading partners, who are a similar distance away?
    Not the US which has failed then? Given that the EU has 40 deals with 70 countries and the US has 17 deals with 20 countries who would you think is responsible?

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    Quote Originally Posted by shurlock View Post
    If the UK doesn’t secure frictionless trade and passporting (now renamed permanent equivalence) and all the other things that Brexiters claimed were perfectly feasible, the UK will have failed in its negotiations. Time to deliver instead of climbing down pal.
    Both are still 'feasible', pal. Whether they are 'achievable' is another matter, given that there are two sides involved in the negotiation, one can simply say 'no, non, nein' and the talks are scuppered.

    Hope that helps clear the matter up for you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Weston Super Saint View Post
    Both are still 'feasible', pal. Whether they are 'achievable' is another matter, given that there are two sides involved in the negotiation, one can simply say 'no, non, nein' and the talks are scuppered.

    Hope that helps clear the matter up for you.

    We were told we hold all the cards, we can have our cake and eat it and they need us more than we need them. It’s time for Brexiters to deliver on their claims -see Raab earlier this month for a masterclass in pure delusion (supposedly we can have frictionless trade and regulatory divergence as it’s all in the WA and PD). No more excuses pal.
    Last edited by shurlock; 20-02-2020 at 06:31 PM. Reason: You might want to learn the meaning of feasible while you’re at it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shurlock View Post
    - there are no more excuses.
    Oh, I'm sure there will be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Weston Super Saint View Post
    Both are still 'feasible', pal. Whether they are 'achievable' is another matter, given that there are two sides involved in the negotiation, one can simply say 'no, non, nein' and the talks are scuppered.

    Hope that helps clear the matter up for you.
    I thought it was supposed to be the easiest trade deal in history?

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    It’s absolutely delicious watching the climbdown in train. Such big talk from such little men. It was only ever going to end one way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shurlock View Post
    It’s absolutely delicious watching the climbdown in train. Such big talk from such little men. It was only ever going to end one way.
    It's childlike. First the refusal to listen to anybody suggesting unicorns don't exist. Then blaming everybody but themselves when it turns out they don't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aintforever View Post
    I thought it was supposed to be the easiest trade deal in history?
    "Coming to a free trade agreement with the EU should be "one of the easiest in human history" because our rules and laws are already the same, the international trade secretary has said." Liam Fox.

    Kin difficult if you insist on dumping that existing alignment though....

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    Quote Originally Posted by buctootim View Post
    It's childlike. First the refusal to listen to anybody suggesting unicorns don't exist. Then blaming everybody but themselves when it turns out they don't.
    When you say this, which posters are you talking about specifically?

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    Quote Originally Posted by aintforever View Post
    I thought it was supposed to be the easiest trade deal in history?
    It still can be, but it takes two to tango.

    For what it's worth, I've only ever made one prediction on here, which I still stand by. Simply put, there are too many grubby fingers in too many pies for any kind of deal to ever be agreed.

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    Let's recap on progress so far. Referendum forced onto Cameron. Referendum won, despite the best efforts of the establishment to prevent it via project fear. Brexit seriously under threat through the serially incompetent negotiating of the WA by May and Robbins, a majority remoaner Parliament and a rogue speaker, all doing their utmost to either revoke article 50, or overturn it via a second/third referendum. May replaced by Boris, who wins a stonking majority in the Brexit General Election, imposing the biggest ever electoral defeat on Labour. The remoaner majority in the House is no more and all of those instrumental in trying to overturn article 50, including the rogue speaker, are all gone.

    We have now left the EU and enter negotiations on the future trading arrangements with the EU, the government having a strong mandate behind them for the first time. At last we are negotiating sensibly from a position of playing those cards that give us an advantage. We have backed the EU into a corner by setting the deadline date by with we must agree a deal acceptable to both parties, or we have made it clear that we will leave with no deal. We have also made it clear that we will not accept regulatory alignment, that we are leaving the SM and CU and everything that those imply. We are already setting out the parameters of our future immigration policy now that freedom of movement is to end, and gearing up to arrange our own free trade deals around the world. The EU believe mistakenly that we are bothered by their assertions that trade talks cannot begin until we accept that they can continue their current fisheries access to our coastal waters, that we cant have this or that deal unless we accept their conditions that impose a level playing field of rules and regulations that suits them and hampers our progress now that we are free of their chains that bound us.

    I'd say that the situation looked pretty damned good from a Brexiteer perspective. Having come so close to getting the whole thing derailed just a short few months ago, the Remoaners on here are trying but failing to put a brave face on it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Tender View Post
    Let's recap on progress so far. Referendum forced onto Cameron. Referendum won, despite the best efforts of the establishment to prevent it via project fear. Brexit seriously under threat through the serially incompetent negotiating of the WA by May and Robbins, a majority remoaner Parliament and a rogue speaker, all doing their utmost to either revoke article 50, or overturn it via a second/third referendum. May replaced by Boris, who wins a stonking majority in the Brexit General Election, imposing the biggest ever electoral defeat on Labour. The remoaner majority in the House is no more and all of those instrumental in trying to overturn article 50, including the rogue speaker, are all gone.

    We have now left the EU and enter negotiations on the future trading arrangements with the EU, the government having a strong mandate behind them for the first time. At last we are negotiating sensibly from a position of playing those cards that give us an advantage. We have backed the EU into a corner by setting the deadline date by with we must agree a deal acceptable to both parties, or we have made it clear that we will leave with no deal. We have also made it clear that we will not accept regulatory alignment, that we are leaving the SM and CU and everything that those imply. We are already setting out the parameters of our future immigration policy now that freedom of movement is to end, and gearing up to arrange our own free trade deals around the world. The EU believe mistakenly that we are bothered by their assertions that trade talks cannot begin until we accept that they can continue their current fisheries access to our coastal waters, that we cant have this or that deal unless we accept their conditions that impose a level playing field of rules and regulations that suits them and hampers our progress now that we are free of their chains that bound us.

    I'd say that the situation looked pretty damned good from a Brexiteer perspective. Having come so close to getting the whole thing derailed just a short few months ago, the Remoaners on here are trying but failing to put a brave face on it.
    You missed out that the EU and just about everyone else have more to bargain with than us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Weston Super Saint View Post
    It still can be, but it takes two to tango.

    For what it's worth, I've only ever made one prediction on here, which I still stand by. Simply put, there are too many grubby fingers in too many pies for any kind of deal to ever be agreed.
    You really are special Westie.

    You do realise that when posters said the Brexiters claims/demands were not feasible and mocked their other statements, it was precisely because they knew that EU was highly likely to reject them, as it made crystal clear from virtually day one. But well done for realising, like the rest of us that a negotiation takes two to tango
    Last edited by shurlock; 21-02-2020 at 10:26 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shurlock View Post
    You really are special Westie.

    You do realise that when posters said the Brexiters claims/demands were not feasible and mocked their other statements, it was precisely because they knew that EU was highly likely to reject them, as it made crystal clear from virtually day one. But well done for realising, like the rest of us that a negotiation takes two to tango
    Who are you talking about when you say posters?

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    Quote Originally Posted by hypochondriac View Post
    Who are you talking about when you say posters?
    Lots of us (me included).
    Last edited by shurlock; 21-02-2020 at 10:41 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Tender View Post

    I'd say that the situation looked pretty damned good from a Brexiteer perspective.
    If what you want is a reduction in GDP, loss of jobs in agriculture and motor manufacturing, a reduction in workers' and environmental protections, and the UK getting shafted by the good old USofA.

  41. #16091

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    Quote Originally Posted by badgerx16 View Post
    If what you want is a reduction in GDP, loss of jobs in agriculture and motor manufacturing, a reduction in workers' and environmental protections, and the UK getting shafted by the good old USofA.
    .... but .... but "we got our country back ".

  42. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by badgerx16 View Post
    If what you want is a reduction in GDP, loss of jobs in agriculture and motor manufacturing, a reduction in workers' and environmental protections, and the UK getting shafted by the good old USofA.
    Itís over, gone, youíve lost. Stop refighting the referendum. Itís 2020 not 2016, at what point is it going to dawn on you.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tamesaint View Post
    .... but .... but "we got our country back ".
    Who said we had lost our country? I don't recall anybody saying that, apart from you just now. What we get back is summarised in a simple but effective campaign slogan. We get back control of our money, laws, borders and trade. You must have heard it said more than a few times. Didn't you understand what it meant?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Duckhunter View Post
    Itís over, gone, youíve lost. Stop refighting the referendum. Itís 2020 not 2016, at what point is it going to dawn on you.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    It's not a fight! We all lose with reduced gdp, and being Trump's *****.

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    Quote Originally Posted by badgerx16 View Post
    If what you want is a reduction in GDP, loss of jobs in agriculture and motor manufacturing, a reduction in workers' and environmental protections, and the UK getting shafted by the good old USofA.
    Equally without a mutually beneficial FTA with us, the EU will also suffer a loss in jobs in agriculture and motor manufacturing, not to mention the loss of our contributions towards their kitty. I'd say that there was plenty of incentive for us both the agree a deal. The EU also attempted to arrange a trade deal with the USA. Why would we be more prone to them shafting us than the EU would be? Our workers and environmental protections are often better than the EU's. Perhaps we should insist that they brought their standards up to our level. Next.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Tender View Post
    Equally without a mutually beneficial FTA with us, the EU will also suffer a loss in jobs in agriculture and motor manufacturing, not to mention the loss of our contributions towards their kitty. I'd say that there was plenty of incentive for us both the agree a deal. The EU also attempted to arrange a trade deal with the USA. Why would we be more prone to them shafting us than the EU would be? Our workers and environmental protections are often better than the EU's. Perhaps we should insist that they brought their standards up to our level. Next.
    So you finally accept that there will be trade frictions and services will barely get a look in. Well done.

  47. #16097

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Tender View Post
    Who said we had lost our country? I don't recall anybody saying that, apart from you just now. What we get back is summarised in a simple but effective campaign slogan. We get back control of our money, laws, borders and trade. You must have heard it said more than a few times. Didn't you understand what it meant?
    Les. Have you finally flipped?

    Where have I just said that we had lost our country ?
    Amusing as you are, perhaps you should take a break from this forum. It is not good for you.

  48. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Duckhunter View Post
    Itís over, gone, youíve lost. Stop refighting the referendum. Itís 2020 not 2016, at what point is it going to dawn on you.


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    Yes, let's stop re-fighting the referendum.....
    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Tender View Post
    Let's recap on progress so far. Referendum forced onto Cameron. Referendum won, despite the best efforts of the establishment to prevent it via project fear. Brexit seriously under threat through the serially incompetent negotiating of the WA by May and Robbins, a majority remoaner Parliament and a rogue speaker, all doing their utmost to either revoke article 50, or overturn it via a second/third referendum. May replaced by Boris, who wins a stonking majority in the Brexit General Election, imposing the biggest ever electoral defeat on Labour. The remoaner majority in the House is no more and all of those instrumental in trying to overturn article 50, including the rogue speaker, are all gone.

    We have now left the EU and enter negotiations on the future trading arrangements with the EU, the government having a strong mandate behind them for the first time. At last we are negotiating sensibly from a position of playing those cards that give us an advantage. We have backed the EU into a corner by setting the deadline date by with we must agree a deal acceptable to both parties, or we have made it clear that we will leave with no deal. We have also made it clear that we will not accept regulatory alignment, that we are leaving the SM and CU and everything that those imply. We are already setting out the parameters of our future immigration policy now that freedom of movement is to end, and gearing up to arrange our own free trade deals around the world. The EU believe mistakenly that we are bothered by their assertions that trade talks cannot begin until we accept that they can continue their current fisheries access to our coastal waters, that we cant have this or that deal unless we accept their conditions that impose a level playing field of rules and regulations that suits them and hampers our progress now that we are free of their chains that bound us.

    I'd say that the situation looked pretty damned good from a Brexiteer perspective. Having come so close to getting the whole thing derailed just a short few months ago, the Remoaners on here are trying but failing to put a brave face on it.

  49. #16099

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    Wes why you no listen, The few re-moaners on hear think they know more than the 17 odd million who got off their arses and voted OUT!!! Kleenex must of cut down half of Sherwood Forrest by now to fill their boxes.

  50. #16100

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Duckhunter View Post
    It’s over, gone, you’ve lost. Stop refighting the referendum. It’s 2020 not 2016, at what point is it going to dawn on you.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I'm not refighting the referendum, just saying that a no-deal, WTO terms, dive off the cliff edge, as Wes seems to want, will not deliver any of the unicorn sh1t Leave.UK promised.

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