Goalie66 Posted 8 February, 2010 Share Posted 8 February, 2010 I'm no expert on these things, but if the club goes into admin rather than it being liquidated would the amount of cash creditors could recoup be less? In other words is liquidation preferable to those who want to get some of their money back? No not necessarily. Admin is normally for businesses that are or can sold as going concerns but creditors take a % of whatever the administrator can recover. Liquidation is where there is no liklihood of the business being sold as a going concern and a court appointed liqidator winds up the business to avoid future debt as well as possibly investigating the reasons for the insolvency that could affect personal liabilities of the Directors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Marco Posted 8 February, 2010 Share Posted 8 February, 2010 They should of made a reality tv series from this thread or something like the office. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingeletiss Posted 8 February, 2010 Share Posted 8 February, 2010 Just turn it into a Skate Museum/visitor attraction and call it The "Pond life"centre. Surely they could turn it into a fishing lake, plenty of skates down that way;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissyboy31 Posted 8 February, 2010 Share Posted 8 February, 2010 They should of made a reality tv series from this thread or something like the office. None of that coming from the Skates (neither the Directors nor fans). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chin Strain Posted 8 February, 2010 Share Posted 8 February, 2010 One thing I haven't got my head around yet. If they go into admin / liquidation, where do they stand with the platers and selling them? In admin, I think they'd be able to keep them, depending on if they could pay them I assume. If liquidation, do they just walk away, or can the liquidator ask for a fee for them, and would they be allowed to do so outside of a window? Even in admin, if they fail to pay them do they just walk away? Again, can the administrator sell them outside of the window, and are there any restrictions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 8 February, 2010 Share Posted 8 February, 2010 Turn Fratton park into an adverture park for the disabled. John W******d could be employed as a scratch and sniff character for the blind kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Marco Posted 8 February, 2010 Share Posted 8 February, 2010 One thing I haven't got my head around yet. If they go into admin / liquidation, where do they stand with the platers and selling them? In admin, I think they'd be able to keep them, depending on if they could pay them I assume. If liquidation, do they just walk away, or can the liquidator ask for a fee for them, and would they be allowed to do so outside of a window? Even in admin, if they fail to pay them do they just walk away? Again, can the administrator sell them outside of the window, and are there any restrictions? If they go into liquidation then all contracts get ripped up, and then the players become free transfers. If they go into admin then the admin team are there to help the company. The players remain until either they are bought out or go under i.e bankupt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamster Posted 8 February, 2010 Share Posted 8 February, 2010 Turn Fratton park into an adverture park for the disabled. John W******d could be employed as a scratch and sniff character for the blind kids. Nah, a Mickey Mouse theme park? Already beeen done mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goalie66 Posted 8 February, 2010 Share Posted 8 February, 2010 One thing I haven't got my head around yet. If they go into admin / liquidation, where do they stand with the platers and selling them? In admin, I think they'd be able to keep them, depending on if they could pay them I assume. If liquidation, do they just walk away, or can the liquidator ask for a fee for them, and would they be allowed to do so outside of a window? Even in admin, if they fail to pay them do they just walk away? Again, can the administrator sell them outside of the window, and are there any restrictions? In admin someone will have to meet operational cash flow until they are bought.In PCFC case that will be wages and ......yes tax and NI.Say about £4 million a month. The players cannot be sold as it is outside the transfer window. They could get voluntary and mutual cessation of any contract. In liquidation all staff are free to work wherver they like as the company and its obligations cease to exist other than the liquidator getting whjat he can(in the case of PCFC) for any fixed assets. Hope that helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grammy Posted 8 February, 2010 Share Posted 8 February, 2010 If they go into liquidation then all contracts get ripped up, and then the players become free transfers. If they go into admin then the admin team are there to help the company. The players remain until either they are bought out or go under i.e bankupt. Do you think there will be any rethink regarding the transfer window after all of this? The reason I wonder is if the Skates go into admin, any administrator will have his hands tied by not being able to sell players to raise funds to try and ensure a future for the club. With so many clubs around the world struggling financialy I wonder if this could have any effect. Basically its a football ruling prohibiting legal business situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonjoe Posted 8 February, 2010 Share Posted 8 February, 2010 Right ... so why on earth has Chanrai seized control? Is it really just to "get a better look" as somebody has suggested? What on earth is he set to gain by doing so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clapham Saint Posted 8 February, 2010 Share Posted 8 February, 2010 If they go into liquidation then all contracts get ripped up, and then the players become free transfers. If they go into admin then the admin team are there to help the company. The players remain until either they are bought out or go under i.e bankupt. The main problem for an administrator is that if he keeps the players on he has to pay them for the period of his appointment. If he doesn't then manage to sell the club (which is a definite possibility) he would have incurred running costs which there are no funds to pay. If this happens he could be personally liable to creditors for the short fall. Would you take the risk? The other option is for the administrator to shut the doors or he could make some of the more expensive players redundant straight away to get the running costs down. They would have a claim for breach of contract but it would be to make an unsecured claim (although it would be a football related debtor). Or of course to just refuse the appointment in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clapham Saint Posted 8 February, 2010 Share Posted 8 February, 2010 Right ... so why on earth has Chanrai seized control? Is it really just to "get a better look" as somebody has suggested? What on earth is he set to gain by doing so? IMO it is just to give the impression that something is hapening in the hope that HMRC buy it and give them some extra time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidthesquid Posted 8 February, 2010 Share Posted 8 February, 2010 Right ... so why on earth has Chanrai seized control? Is it really just to "get a better look" as somebody has suggested? What on earth is he set to gain by doing so? Come on admit it chaps - if you had £17 mill to burn wouldn't you want the best seat in the house to get a better look at the unfolding farce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonjoe Posted 8 February, 2010 Share Posted 8 February, 2010 IMO it is just to give the impression that something is hapening in the hope that HMRC buy it and give them some extra time. that's what I was saying, but you lot were saying no! They're going to say that he's stabilised the ship and will agree to pay some cash. Meanwhile, they'll also have to prove that they have serious interest from prospective purchasers. If that happens, they may get a stay of execution. If they get early wind of it being impossible, I guess they'll go into admin before the hearing. It will be very interesting if they take a gamble and go to the hearing without any prior idea of what may happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Gabriel's Halo Posted 8 February, 2010 Share Posted 8 February, 2010 People keep saying about them going into admin, my understanding is a) that will be extreemly difficult to arrange, but more importantly b), having something to administer. They haven't, so would find it hard to get a administer, unless one was appointed by the court.....they are dead as a dead parrot;) That would be the Norwegian Blue Few species.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solentstars Posted 8 February, 2010 Share Posted 8 February, 2010 sorry my informer has not replied yet giving me permission. I think he has gone into hiding. He did say it was not looking good for them. thanks for update,the way i read it , its looking really bad for them ,and looks to me they are going out of business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 8 February, 2010 Share Posted 8 February, 2010 Hiya Grammy - how are the boys at Deacons? When I was in Hong Kong on vacation last summer I went past a fish market, There was a fish that had been cut in half and all it's insides were on show. alongside it was a tank of water. The fish was still trying to flap itself off the slab back into the water it made a horrific video. Nobody had told it that it had been dead for some time, just like the skates. The more I watch, the more it is becoming clear. Portsmouth's football club is nothing to do with what is going on any longer. My guess is the last few days Storrie teller has finally worked out that nobody gives a toss about him any longer. I've felt it was about buying time for the club, but I'm now doubting that, I think the club is finally working out they have no chance as they no longer are a part of whatever game has been going on. The game is MUCH bigger than just them. It may have been a con to get revenge on Chanrai, it may be to do with the legal issues in Israel, but somehow I think they may have just realised they have been somewhat massively conned and instead of buying time it is now about damage limitation - which means Storrie's career. It has always seemed fishy, but people who COULD have helped have not had calls returned, almost as if it didn't really matter. Probably I'm miles off but somehow to butcher something dear old Sherlock said - when nothing seems to make sense then perhaps you are using the wrong filters to view the problem. Even IF they found someone with more money than brains tomorrow I'm getting the feeling it won't matter a damn. The pain in skatesmouth could be as nothing to the embarrassment in the FA, this could really hurt the entire football industry if my stupid opinion is even close to being right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solentstars Posted 8 February, 2010 Share Posted 8 February, 2010 Just turn it into a Skate Museum/visitor attraction and call it The "Pond life"centre. how about the harry ramsdan centre . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy_D Posted 8 February, 2010 Share Posted 8 February, 2010 Denial http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/portsmouth/article6971646.ece Anger http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/portsmouth/article7015810.ece Bargaining http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/portsmouth/article7019273.ece Depression and acceptance to come on wednesday? Looks like a classic case study to me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Keith Posted 8 February, 2010 Share Posted 8 February, 2010 looks like they are going to get out of it. seems as though Chainrai is coughing up the money to HMRC http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/leagues/premierleague/portsmouth/7190308/Portsmouth-seek-stay-of-execution-against--winding-up-order.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bungle Posted 8 February, 2010 Share Posted 8 February, 2010 (edited) Radio 5 Live reporting the Skates are close to getting the winding up petition hearing cancelled (not just postponed). Edit: Although discussion after this still about how they might be doomed anyway. Edited 8 February, 2010 by bungle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channon's Sideburns Posted 8 February, 2010 Share Posted 8 February, 2010 Hiya Grammy - how are the boys at Deacons? When I was in Hong Kong on vacation last summer I went past a fish market, There was a fish that had been cut in half and all it's insides were on show. alongside it was a tank of water. The fish was still trying to flap itself off the slab back into the water it made a horrific video. Nobody had told it that it had been dead for some time, just like the skates. The more I watch, the more it is becoming clear. Portsmouth's football club is nothing to do with what is going on any longer. My guess is the last few days Storrie teller has finally worked out that nobody gives a toss about him any longer. I've felt it was about buying time for the club, but I'm now doubting that, I think the club is finally working out they have no chance as they no longer are a part of whatever game has been going on. The game is MUCH bigger than just them. It may have been a con to get revenge on Chanrai, it may be to do with the legal issues in Israel, but somehow I think they may have just realised they have been somewhat massively conned and instead of buying time it is now about damage limitation - which means Storrie's career. It has always seemed fishy, but people who COULD have helped have not had calls returned, almost as if it didn't really matter. Probably I'm miles off but somehow to butcher something dear old Sherlock said - when nothing seems to make sense then perhaps you are using the wrong filters to view the problem. Even IF they found someone with more money than brains tomorrow I'm getting the feeling it won't matter a damn. The pain in skatesmouth could be as nothing to the embarrassment in the FA, this could really hurt the entire football industry if my stupid opinion is even close to being right Appreciate your post Phil. Hopefully when time allows the truth will out. My skate mate has had that lot rumbled since before Redknapp went. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chin Strain Posted 8 February, 2010 Share Posted 8 February, 2010 Do you think there will be any rethink regarding the transfer window after all of this? The reason I wonder is if the Skates go into admin, any administrator will have his hands tied by not being able to sell players to raise funds to try and ensure a future for the club. With so many clubs around the world struggling financialy I wonder if this could have any effect. Basically its a football ruling prohibiting legal business situations. As a creditor you'd be pretty upset if the likes of Boateng, Nugent and Belhadj could walk away for nothing purely because of a transfer window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faz Posted 8 February, 2010 Share Posted 8 February, 2010 Story Teller's negotiations with HMRC; HMRC: So, you owe us £7.5m, £10m , £11.5m, whatever. We had a repayment schedule upon which you failed to make even one payment. In the last month you've had £7m of TV money, and £8.5m in player sales which has all been diverted to meet other debts. And I understand you now owe the Scummers £120k (including VAT!). So, what is your proposal now? ST: Well, a friend of Uncle sacha, has a friend who knows soemone who might be taking over the club at some hitherto unexplained time. There are defo interested parties. It could be the son of a Dictator, or perhaps third time lucky on the Arab Billionaire front - we've written to all the rich Arabs we can think of. Oh, and Mr Chainrai has stabilised the situation. HMRC: What, in the same way the Mary Rose has been stabilised? Goddbye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solentstars Posted 8 February, 2010 Share Posted 8 February, 2010 looks like they are going to get out of it. seems as though Chainrai is coughing up the money to HMRC http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/leagues/premierleague/portsmouth/7190308/Portsmouth-seek-stay-of-execution-against--winding-up-order.html i thought storrie said they do not have the money to pay them off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint in Paradise Posted 8 February, 2010 Share Posted 8 February, 2010 I thought that only one other company joined up with HMRC on the winding up thing ? "A host of other companies that joined the winding-up order have already been paid off by the club, " According to the Telegraph link ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 8 February, 2010 Share Posted 8 February, 2010 To pay the taxman either Chairai has put extra money in OR they have diverted money from the recent player sales. The fact remains they still owe £60 mil so they've merely bought a little time. Once the players need paying again and the bills come in again they'll be back to square 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamster Posted 8 February, 2010 Share Posted 8 February, 2010 Denial http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/portsmouth/article6971646.ece Anger http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/portsmouth/article7015810.ece Bargaining http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/portsmouth/article7019273.ece Depression and acceptance to come on wednesday? Looks like a classic case study to me... Ironically are those not the the stages that an Alzheimer's patient goes through? Which in it's basest form is simply about memory loss. How apt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shrek Posted 8 February, 2010 Share Posted 8 February, 2010 i thought storrie said they do not have the money to pay them off Hmm, no real source to the article (story?) other than a small line under the photo attributing it to Storrie. Would you believe him or anyone else at the club? Sounds like a load of rubbish to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Um Bongo Posted 8 February, 2010 Share Posted 8 February, 2010 I told you, somehow, they will find there way to wriggle out of this. And I believe they have satisfied HMRC with a repayment plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StDunko Posted 8 February, 2010 Share Posted 8 February, 2010 Now now Geneva, they are being bought by a prince..... http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/newshome/Saudi-Prince-in-talks-over.6050292.jp After Al Fahim, and Al Mirage this would be the third Sheik. As the saying goes..... Doesn't having more than two sheiks, make them all w@nkers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamster Posted 8 February, 2010 Share Posted 8 February, 2010 I thought that only one other company joined up with HMRC on the winding up thing ? "A host of other companies that joined the winding-up order have already been paid off by the club, " According to the Telegraph link ?? If true it is probably due to the fact that the Great British Taxman will not resort to contract killings, whereas gangsters, thugs and smugglers may do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fowllyd Posted 8 February, 2010 Share Posted 8 February, 2010 looks like they are going to get out of it. seems as though Chainrai is coughing up the money to HMRC http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/leagues/premierleague/portsmouth/7190308/Portsmouth-seek-stay-of-execution-against--winding-up-order.html Radio 5 Live reporting the Skates are close to getting the winding up petition hearing cancelled (not just postponed). Well, if Chainrai really does cough up a significant sum to HMRC (and I'd guess they'll be looking for pretty much all they're owed, or more likely the whole sum), then the winding up hearing will indeed be cancelled. But then there's been so much bullshít coming out of FP over the past few months that this could simply be more of the same. It'll be confirmed soon enough one way or the other though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chin Strain Posted 8 February, 2010 Share Posted 8 February, 2010 looks like they are going to get out of it. seems as though Chainrai is coughing up the money to HMRC http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/leagues/premierleague/portsmouth/7190308/Portsmouth-seek-stay-of-execution-against--winding-up-order.html I'd wondered if BC may be stupid enough to chuck more money into the pot in an attempt to try and sell it on. Hasn't anyone told him that the club is worth nothing, and he's not going to get anyone to take on a Championship club with masses of debt attached to it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clapham Saint Posted 8 February, 2010 Share Posted 8 February, 2010 I told you, somehow, they will find there way to wriggle out of this. And I believe they have satisfied HMRC with a repayment plan. Gven the sources of income available to them what payment plan are they going to be able to stick to? Bearing in mind that they need £3m each month to pay the players and income almost certainly won't even cover that what on earth are they going to propose? Without Chanarai coughing up, the only thing they can offer is to pay nothing and maybe pay in the future. Not a hope of being accepted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 8 February, 2010 Share Posted 8 February, 2010 dunno if it has been posted..but the minutes from their prem meeting http://fansonline.net/portsmouth/article.php?id=1311 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clapham Saint Posted 8 February, 2010 Share Posted 8 February, 2010 looks like they are going to get out of it. seems as though Chainrai is coughing up the money to HMRC http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/leagues/premierleague/portsmouth/7190308/Portsmouth-seek-stay-of-execution-against--winding-up-order.html The only hope they have of a stay of execution is if there is a real prospect of them finding a buyer in the next 28 days. Strange that all of this interest from people with money to sh*t away shold emerge now. No prizes for guessing the source of the Storries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey-deacons-left-nut Posted 8 February, 2010 Share Posted 8 February, 2010 can I be the first to say.. ****FLAPS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Keith Posted 8 February, 2010 Share Posted 8 February, 2010 Gven the sources of income available to them what payment plan are they going to be able to stick to? Bearing in mind that they need £3m each month to pay the players and income almost certainly won't even cover that what on earth are they going to propose? Without Chanarai coughing up, the only thing they can offer is to pay nothing and maybe pay in the future. Not a hope of being accepted. but it seems from the torygraph article that he is i feel sick all of a sudden. like when my first pet rabbit died unless its more jackanory from storrie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonjoe Posted 8 February, 2010 Share Posted 8 February, 2010 Gven the sources of income available to them what payment plan are they going to be able to stick to? Bearing in mind that they need £3m each month to pay the players and income almost certainly won't even cover that what on earth are they going to propose? Without Chanarai coughing up, the only thing they can offer is to pay nothing and maybe pay in the future. Not a hope of being accepted. if he puts his hand in his pocket to pay the HMRC, he gets time to find a buyer. simples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin C Posted 8 February, 2010 Share Posted 8 February, 2010 Looks like they will get out of it at least until the summer. I think this new guy will give them a couple of mil now to keep the tax man happy. I was hoping for Admin! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clapham Saint Posted 8 February, 2010 Share Posted 8 February, 2010 if he puts his hand in his pocket to pay the HMRC, he gets time to find a buyer. simples. And increases the amount that he needs to pursuade some mug to part with if he wants to get his money back. Throwing good money after bad is not the way to become a wealthy man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faz Posted 8 February, 2010 Share Posted 8 February, 2010 (edited) So BC is already owed £17m, chucks in £10m to satisfy HMRC, and then needs to pay £15m to meet wages for the next 5 months. That's £42m he needs to sell for just to get his money back. Add in Stories £25m of football debts, that's £67m of debts a buyer would need to clear even if they bought it for £1. For a Championship Club. And Gheydamack is still owed gazillions. Can't see it. Edited 8 February, 2010 by Faz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint in Paradise Posted 8 February, 2010 Share Posted 8 February, 2010 if he puts his hand in his pocket to pay the HMRC, he gets time to find a buyer. simples. Ah but if he does will it be a gift or another loan which he would want paying back from a new owner?. That would mean the new owner would have even more debt than now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonjoe Posted 8 February, 2010 Share Posted 8 February, 2010 And increases the amount that he needs to pursuade some mug to part with if he wants to get his money back. Throwing good money after bad is not the way to become a wealthy man. At the moment, he stands to get nothing back if they're liquidated. If there's a genuinely rich idiot in talks, Chanrai will get more back by stumping up a few million whilst negotiations are ongoing. I think you're analysing the situation according to what you want to happen, not what actually might be happening. we'll obviously have to wait and see whether there are buyers waiting in the wings and obviously i hope there won't be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 8 February, 2010 Share Posted 8 February, 2010 they have a few months breathing space it seems..imo, that was always going to happen.. in the mean time..they are turd on the pitch and look odds-on to go down..then the fun will begin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint in Paradise Posted 8 February, 2010 Share Posted 8 February, 2010 Actually upon reflection I would be amazed if HMRC accepted anything other than the full amount now. I cannot see them taking more repayment plans given pimpeys history. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintds Posted 8 February, 2010 Share Posted 8 February, 2010 I'd wondered if BC may be stupid enough to chuck more money into the pot in an attempt to try and sell it on. Hasn't anyone told him that the club is worth nothing, and he's not going to get anyone to take on a Championship club with masses of debt attached to it? is a week sufficient to undertake due dilligence? Guess it depends on the state of the books... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint in Paradise Posted 8 February, 2010 Share Posted 8 February, 2010 At the moment, he stands to get nothing back if they're liquidated. If there's a genuinely rich idiot in talks, Chanrai will get more back by stumping up a few million whilst negotiations are ongoing. I think you're analysing the situation according to what you want to happen, not what actually might be happening. we'll obviously have to wait and see whether there are buyers waiting in the wings and obviously i hope there won't be. Ah but supposing this "rich idiot" is actually a con man who is friends with Gaydamak, he pulls out at the very second meaning Chanrai looses even more money ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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