hypochondriac Posted 26 October, 2009 Share Posted 26 October, 2009 Just seen it on saints player. Papa was onside and so technically he did score. Maybe people can think about that before describing his performance as gruesome. Ok he didn't have the best game but he did alright. I like him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pancake Posted 26 October, 2009 Share Posted 26 October, 2009 Oddly Hypo, I was just watching it on BBC iPlayer and I was about to post on the thread that he was, without a doubt in my mind, offside when the ball was knocked towards him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 26 October, 2009 Author Share Posted 26 October, 2009 Hmm. Interesting debate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pancake Posted 26 October, 2009 Share Posted 26 October, 2009 Here^^ The ball is being knocked on by Lambert (?) to Waigo, who is offside. IMHO, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartosz Bialkowski Posted 26 October, 2009 Share Posted 26 October, 2009 Looks on side to me :S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 26 October, 2009 Share Posted 26 October, 2009 He was offside I believe. Thankfully, it's all rather academic. We won! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 26 October, 2009 Author Share Posted 26 October, 2009 When the ball is played though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 26 October, 2009 Author Share Posted 26 October, 2009 Just paused and resumed it a load of times and he definitely looks onside to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pancake Posted 26 October, 2009 Share Posted 26 October, 2009 When the ball is played though. What do you mean by that though? From watching the "goal" on the BBC site a few times, he is slightly ahead of whoever knocks the ball on from the cross. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pancake Posted 26 October, 2009 Share Posted 26 October, 2009 Just paused and resumed it a load of times and he definitely looks onside to me. Love it how 2 people see the same thing so differently! I dont have SaintsPlayer, is the quality any better than the BBC one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clapham Saint Posted 26 October, 2009 Share Posted 26 October, 2009 He wasn't offside from the initial cross but was (more importantly) from the knock on. IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 26 October, 2009 Author Share Posted 26 October, 2009 Yeah it is better quality. He is leaning forward to head the ball when it is knocked on so the top half of his body is ahead of the defender but his back is in line. As you can't watch it though I'm going to claim that it's definitively onside and revel in my victory! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 26 October, 2009 Share Posted 26 October, 2009 It wouldn't be the first time that a linesman got it wrong at this level, as they patently even get it wrong often in the Premiership too. The difficulty is that often the linesman might be up in line with the defence / striker, but has to be looking many yards back to the player that plays the ball. How can he simultaneously watch the ball being struck and watch the striker break forward to intercept the ball? Thank God though that if the decision was wrong, it did not cost us the 3 points. One just has to hope that the linesmen get as many wrong in our favour as against us over the course of a season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scummer Posted 26 October, 2009 Share Posted 26 October, 2009 Linesman missed their goalie letting the ball go out for a corner in the first half as well. Ball went off but they played on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 26 October, 2009 Share Posted 26 October, 2009 Just seen it on saints player. Papa was onside and so technically he did score. Maybe people can think about that before describing his performance as gruesome. Ok he didn't have the best game but he did alright. I like him. Our transformation from relegation fodder into play-off contenders started when he stepped out on to the pitch for us. He gave the team something that was completely lacking beforehand. So what if it lacks refinement and a bit of discipline ? I cannot beleive the stick he gets from so-called Saints "fans" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 26 October, 2009 Share Posted 26 October, 2009 I thought he was offside at the time and looked straight away at the assistant so I was not surprised that the 'goal' was not allowed to stand. 'Technically' it was not a goal because the officials did not allow it, but credit to the lad for sticking the ball away. Too many times at the beginning of the season they were alll scared of taking a shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Landrew Posted 26 October, 2009 Share Posted 26 October, 2009 Just paused and resumed it a load of times and he definitely looks onside to me. Have done the same. The truth is, is that when the ball is kicked, you can't see Papa in the picture. As soon as you can, he is fractionally ahead of the last defender but no daylight. From what we can see, he was almost certainly onside when the ball was kicked. But as someone else said, we won anyway. Personally, I think we've got a real goal poacher in Papa. He seems to have the knack of being in the right place. Some of his offsides appear to be him being too quick for the officials to spot. I saw him in his first game, and he was too quick on a couple of occasions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 26 October, 2009 Author Share Posted 26 October, 2009 Our transformation from relegation fodder into play-off contenders started when he stepped out on to the pitch for us. He gave the team something that was completely lacking beforehand. So what if it lacks refinement and a bit of discipline ? I cannot beleive the stick he gets from so-called Saints "fans" I totally agree. He would scare the life out of me if I was playing against him. He's so unpredictable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintbletch Posted 26 October, 2009 Share Posted 26 October, 2009 Our transformation from relegation fodder into play-off contenders started when he stepped out on to the pitch for us. He gave the team something that was completely lacking beforehand. So what if it lacks refinement and a bit of discipline ? I cannot beleive the stick he gets from so-called Saints "fans" Well I've defended him on here previously. I've even suggested that in his early games, it was the player not playing the ball quickly enough that led to him being off-side. All true as I saw it. But on Saturday he looked like he didn't understand the off-side rule. Very odd. As ever somewhere in the middle is the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
altoniansaints Posted 26 October, 2009 Share Posted 26 October, 2009 no matter what we as fans think the assistant ref waved his flag and the ref blew his whistle! result is he WAS offside! the question of if they correctly judged him offside is accademic as the refs decision if final and his decision was OFFSIDE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Will Posted 26 October, 2009 Share Posted 26 October, 2009 Our transformation from relegation fodder into play-off contenders started when he stepped out on to the pitch for us. He gave the team something that was completely lacking beforehand. So what if it lacks refinement and a bit of discipline ? I cannot beleive the stick he gets from so-called Saints "fans" Lol that's rich, Lallana, Schneiderlin and Pardew basher!! Although I do completely agree with you, it's no coicidence that since he came we've been winning games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northam soul Posted 26 October, 2009 Share Posted 26 October, 2009 I sit absolutely in line with this in the Itchen and he was definatley a yard possibly 2 offside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 26 October, 2009 Share Posted 26 October, 2009 (edited) I don't understand the vilification that he has recieved since sat TBH. He didn't do that badly, we all know he gets caught offside an aweful lot but he also gives us a different dimension going forward. The dons LB was clearly crapping himself whenever Papa got the ball and are we forgetting he also had a goal disallowed and almost set up lallana with a superb run and cross ?? Yes antonio did well when he came on but the game was already changing. The fickleness of some of our fans at times astounds me. One thing is for sure, their LB will be dreading meeting saints again. Edited 26 October, 2009 by Smirking_Saint I am a fool, cheers pancake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissyboy31 Posted 26 October, 2009 Share Posted 26 October, 2009 I don't understand the vindication that he has recieved since sat TBH. He didn't do that badly, we all know he gets caught offside an aweful lot but he also gives us a different dimension going forward. The dons LB was clearly crapping himself whenever Papa got the ball and are we forgetting he also had a goal disallowed and almost set up lallana with a superb run and cross ?? Yes antonio did well when he came on but the game was already changing. The fickleness of some of our fans at times astounds me. One thing is for sure, their LB will be dreading meeting saints again. I agree. I thought he was giving their LB a torrid time and was surprised when he was taken off. The LB would have been mighty relieved (that is until Antonio swept past him in the very next attack). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 26 October, 2009 Share Posted 26 October, 2009 I agree. I thought he was giving their LB a torrid time and was surprised when he was taken off. The LB would have been mighty relieved (that is until Antonio swept past him in the very next attack). Lol, you can imagine his thoughts. 'Huff Huff "well thank f*ck for........oh boll*cks" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pancake Posted 26 October, 2009 Share Posted 26 October, 2009 I don't understand the vindication that he has recieved since sat TBH. He didn't do that badly, we all know he gets caught offside an aweful lot but he also gives us a different dimension going forward. Eh? You don't understand why people are trying to clear his name, yet you then attempt to clear his name? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 26 October, 2009 Share Posted 26 October, 2009 Eh? You don't understand why people are trying to clear his name, yet you then attempt to clear his name? Lol sorry meant vilification not vindication My bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 26 October, 2009 Author Share Posted 26 October, 2009 Eh? You don't understand why people are trying to clear his name, yet you then attempt to clear his name? Doesnt he mean vitriol? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nineteen Canteen Posted 26 October, 2009 Share Posted 26 October, 2009 Even by the law of averages Papa will occassionally be on side but at the moment it is only through the law of averages as oppose to any thinking on his part IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 26 October, 2009 Share Posted 26 October, 2009 I sit absolutely in line with this in the Itchen and he was definitely a yard possibly 2 offside. So do I, I called him offside four times in the build up to the disallowed goal, each time the ball didn't come to him so he was inactive. He finally was offside then onside but as he was immediately active the linesman correctly flagged. From where I was sitting in block 5 he was offside so many times it wasn't funny. He is vital to us but not in the narrow position that he played for 20 mins and at the beginning of the second half. He will get goals and his unpredictability and pace pulls the defence apart for the others. He really has to look around him if he is up the middle, on one occasion he was 5 yds goal side of the last defender still running towards their goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanimal Posted 26 October, 2009 Share Posted 26 October, 2009 Thank goodness the one armed bandit gave MK dons 'offside' a few times in the 2nd half as well! Once the guy was yards on and then through on goal. The best one was when Papa got found by a long crossfield pass by Morgan (I think?) and the lino was 5 yards behind him and stuck his flag up!! Classic bad officialdom. By the way, was Jaidi guilty, was it a foul? View from Northam hard to tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 26 October, 2009 Share Posted 26 October, 2009 Doesnt he mean vitriol? I could have used it, but i chose vilification, i just spelt it wrong........... very wrong.........completely wrong in fact Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonjoe Posted 26 October, 2009 Share Posted 26 October, 2009 I don't understand the vilification that he has recieved since sat TBH. He didn't do that badly, we all know he gets caught offside an aweful lot but he also gives us a different dimension going forward. The dons LB was clearly crapping himself whenever Papa got the ball and are we forgetting he also had a goal disallowed and almost set up lallana with a superb run and cross ?? Yes antonio did well when he came on but the game was already changing. The fickleness of some of our fans at times astounds me. One thing is for sure, their LB will be dreading meeting saints again. To imply that Waigo had a better game is pure craziness in my opinion. Antonio looked stronger and faster. Waigo relies solely on pace, I can't remember him actually taking a player on on Sat, he just tries to out run them, with limited success. Full credit to him for the way he held the ball up in the first half before putting in an excellent cross, but Antonio did much, much better. He was tapping the ball round the defender and going the other side, making up huge distances. He was also much better at winning fifty fifty balls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Ringwood Saint Posted 26 October, 2009 Share Posted 26 October, 2009 Thank goodness the one armed bandit gave MK dons 'offside' a few times in the 2nd half as well! Once the guy was yards on and then through on goal. The best one was when Papa got found by a long crossfield pass by Morgan (I think?) and the lino was 5 yards behind him and stuck his flag up!! Classic bad officialdom. By the way, was Jaidi guilty, was it a foul? View from Northam hard to tell. Was in line with this in the Itchen, and I think he was a bit stupid. The ball bounced on towards Kelvin, who would of made it comfortably - Jaidi looked at the player coming through and did block him off.. .. Judging by the look on his face he knew he was in the wrong.. However another ref could of let it go so........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ribbo Posted 26 October, 2009 Share Posted 26 October, 2009 By the way, was Jaidi guilty, was it a foul? View from Northam hard to tell. yeah, classic "i cant be bothered to tackle him", he looked well guilty too, all of us inline with the incident knew they'd score from it, lets face it, it was almost scripted the way that half had gone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lets B Avenue Posted 26 October, 2009 Share Posted 26 October, 2009 So do I, I called him offside four times in the build up to the disallowed goal, each time the ball didn't come to him so he was inactive. He finally was offside then onside but as he was immediately active the linesman correctly flagged. From where I was sitting in block 5 he was offside so many times it wasn't funny. He is vital to us but not in the narrow position that he played for 20 mins and at the beginning of the second half. He will get goals and his unpredictability and pace pulls the defence apart for the others. He really has to look around him if he is up the middle, on one occasion he was 5 yds goal side of the last defender still running towards their goal. Ditto. I sit in Block 34 right in line with this incident and he was offside before and whilst the cross came in. I'm the first to abuse the officials and boy, we've had some cack this season, but this time the decision was correct. A bit desperate trying to prove a point from a camera on the half-way line methinks., but I do agree with Hypo about Papa in general and would hope he starts on Saturday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 26 October, 2009 Share Posted 26 October, 2009 (edited) What do you mean by that though? From watching the "goal" on the BBC site a few times, he is slightly ahead of whoever knocks the ball on from the cross. Nobody knocks the ball on - he should have been judged on- or off- side from the moment James hit it which is inconclusive from Saints player. If anything, he may been slightly more onside- he was moving forward and only marginally ahead of the last defender well after the ball had been crossed. But too hard to tell. Edited 26 October, 2009 by shurlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 26 October, 2009 Share Posted 26 October, 2009 To imply that Waigo had a better game is pure craziness in my opinion. Antonio looked stronger and faster. Waigo relies solely on pace, I can't remember him actually taking a player on on Sat, he just tries to out run them, with limited success. Full credit to him for the way he held the ball up in the first half before putting in an excellent cross, but Antonio did much, much better. He was tapping the ball round the defender and going the other side, making up huge distances. He was also much better at winning fifty fifty balls. I didn't imply he was better. I believe that he didn't have as bad a game as everyone made out. Antonio had a good game, but i am not hero worshipping just yet thats all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nineteen Canteen Posted 26 October, 2009 Share Posted 26 October, 2009 Thank goodness the one armed bandit gave MK dons 'offside' a few times in the 2nd half as well! Once the guy was yards on and then through on goal. The best one was when Papa got found by a long crossfield pass by Morgan (I think?) and the lino was 5 yards behind him and stuck his flag up!! Classic bad officialdom. By the way, was Jaidi guilty, was it a foul? View from Northam hard to tell. I had an excellent view of this and I personally thought it was pretty calculated by Jaidi and probably unnecessary but at least the resultant goal kick started our game which was until then a classic example of the sometimes frustrating dominance we play with but with no end product or imagination up front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFKA South Woodford Posted 26 October, 2009 Share Posted 26 October, 2009 I agree with others in saying that he wasn't having his best game on Saturday, but he wasn't playing that badly either. When an oppo fan says that your player was onside when he scored, as he does in the match report posted on the other thread, I think it's safe to say that he was onside. I also think that all the marginal calls go against him, as the officials at this level are not used to having someone as quick as him to officiate over, so just call him off when a lot of the time he's not, there was an occasion on Saturday when he was a couple of yards behind Lewington when the ball was played over by Morgan, and the lino flagged him off as he got to the ball first. It didn't help his effectiveness by having Lewington virtually sitting on top of him on Saturday and our players passing to his feet rather than just ahead of him, so he would of been able to use his pace a bit more. Everyone has the occasional dip in form, but he will recover and remains a key ingredient of our team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nineteen Canteen Posted 26 October, 2009 Share Posted 26 October, 2009 I didn't imply he was better. I believe that he didn't have as bad a game as everyone made out. Antonio had a good game, but i am not hero worshipping just yet thats all. On Saturday's evidence who would you start with this weekend? Antonio for me, Papa needs to sort this offside thing out and he is far weaker on the ball whereas from what I saw Antonio can knock the ball behind the defence and sprint on to it (like Papa) or he has the pace and strength on the ball to run with it at defenders a skill Papa I don't think has at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nineteen Canteen Posted 26 October, 2009 Share Posted 26 October, 2009 Ditto. I sit in Block 34 right in line with this incident and he was offside before and whilst the cross came in. I'm the first to abuse the officials and boy, we've had some cack this season, but this time the decision was correct. A bit desperate trying to prove a point from a camera on the half-way line methinks., but I do agree with Hypo about Papa in general and would hope he starts on Saturday. I would hope the team as it was after Pardew's first two subs starts on Saturday injuries permitting. Prior to those subs we were in total control and had nothing to show for it. Interstingly it wasn't until those subs came on that Lallana suddenly lit up and showed us everything he didn't during the first half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedAndWhite91 Posted 26 October, 2009 Share Posted 26 October, 2009 On Saturday's evidence who would you start with this weekend? Antonio for me, Papa needs to sort this offside thing out and he is far weaker on the ball whereas from what I saw Antonio can knock the ball behind the defence and sprint on to it (like Papa) or he has the pace and strength on the ball to run with it at defenders a skill Papa I don't think has at all. I would start with Antonio too. I am not hero-worshipping Antonio, and at the same time I am not calling Waigo sh!te. Antonio played well against MK Dons and made a definite impact. Waigo has had one, maybe two, bad games but other than that he is a good player. I don't know how Antonio would fare for 90 minutes, as he seemed to be the perfect substitute; he came on in the second half, was 'explosive' and ran himself ragged for 40 minutes or whatever. I would start him and see how he gets on, we know he has got a potential decent ability at this level so see how it goes. He's quick and strong and I reckon he would put the O's defence to the sword on Saturday. If it don't work out, then we would have Waigo on the bench. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 26 October, 2009 Share Posted 26 October, 2009 I was directly in line and he was offside when the original cross went in. He may well have moved into an onside position when the ball was flicked on but the lino already had his flag up. I never left my seat when he scored. The flag had been up for ages. I think the people behind thought I was a Franchise fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Incongruous Monk Posted 26 October, 2009 Share Posted 26 October, 2009 Yeah it is better quality. He is leaning forward to head the ball when it is knocked on so the top half of his body is ahead of the defender but his back is in line. As you can't watch it though I'm going to claim that it's definitively onside and revel in my victory! I which case - he is off side. Any part of the head, body or legs counts. The only exemption is arms as you can't play the ball with you arms (generally). :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 26 October, 2009 Author Share Posted 26 October, 2009 I which case - he is off side. Any part of the head, body or legs counts. The only exemption is arms as you can't play the ball with you arms (generally). :-) Daylight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Incongruous Monk Posted 26 October, 2009 Share Posted 26 October, 2009 Daylight? 'fraid not. *Any part* of the head, body or legs. :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Incongruous Monk Posted 26 October, 2009 Share Posted 26 October, 2009 The Wikipedia article links to the official rules if you're interested: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offside_(association_football) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 26 October, 2009 Share Posted 26 October, 2009 The Wikipedia article links to the official rules if you're interested: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offside_(association_football) Go straight to the horses' mouths: http://www.fifa.com/worldfootball/lawsofthegame.html There's an interactive guide to the offside law on this page. The interpretation has varied a bit over the last few years with talk of 'daylight' and such but the present wording is: 'Nearer to the opponents' goal line means that any part of the head, body or feet is nearer to the opponents' goal line than both the ball and the second last opponent.' It's also worth remembering that you can download a pdf of the 'Laws of the Game' from this site without having to pay! Every Premiership manager should read them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintstr1 Posted 26 October, 2009 Share Posted 26 October, 2009 To my mind Papa Waigo is a vital cog in the starting line up, Just look at the results since he has been playing , Antonio like Connolly is good for coming off the bench, the way we are playing at the moment no need for anything to change. With regard to Papa getting caught offside there will come games when he times it just right and scores ,so dont bother about a few offsides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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