Guided Missile Posted 31 December, 2009 Share Posted 31 December, 2009 ....we are in a better position than many think, to survive. (Part 2) The pain we have gone through will be ten times worse for the "bigger" clubs over the coming months. It will happen soon and the pigs who have been at the Sky Sports trough will find that it will soon be empty. The balance sheets of these mercenary armies(or their banks) will soon be found to be nothing more than a mirage of creative accounting, that the Premier League have ignored for too long. Ashley has lost over £300M on HBOS shares, allegedly. A firesale of Newcastle is on the cards and relegation is not out of the question. If we found it hard, how will they cope? Even Man U, Liverpool and Arsenal are not immune to the firestorm engulfing the world's economy. Massive debts built on the assumption that there is an inifinite apetite for overpaid foreigners kicking a ball around at a strange time on the weekend (ie not 3:00pm on a Saturday) are going to be unsustainable and with many of the property assets (£10M for Fratton Park, anyone???) underpinning the balance sheets, a slight nudge that propelled some of the biggest financial institutions into oblivion, will be all it takes. Live with the pain at Southampton Football Club, turn up to as many of the games as possible, because soon, our model of sustainable football covered by income from the pockets of the real fans will be the daily diet of many of the clubs in the Premiership. As they sink, we will rise again, on the back of a vision of the economic reality that so many people are having to face in the financial community, but few inside football can see. Just be glad we are facing up to it now. Those in denial, not a few miles down the M27 will soon be jolted into a world of pain, along with a few others and their journey will go downhill far more rapidly than ours..... More rapidly than, Brighton and Hove Albion, IMHO. For those that are interested, here's a potted history of the Goldstone Ground, presumably the business model for Pompey's owner, Al Mirage, and so far away from ours, it's laughable: The Goldstone Ground (or The Goldstone) was a football stadium and home ground of Brighton & Hove Albion F.C. between 1902 and 1997. The club currently plays at Withdean Stadium, a temporary stadium in the Brighton suburb of Withdean while a new stadium is built at Falmer on the outskirts of the city. After the sale of the ground to private developers, the area was changed to a row of warehouse style retail shops, along with a "drive-thru" Burger King outlet. The Goldstone Ground stood on Old Shoreham Road, Hove opposite Hove Park in a partly residential area. The area was previously part of Goldstone Farm and was first used for a football match by Hove F.C. on 7 September 1901. The Albion played there for the first time on 22 February 1902, and it became the club's permanent home the next season. The main West Stand was largely built in 1958 and consisted of seating and terraces. The South Stand was originally built in 1949 and served family spectators. The North Stand was built in 1984 and consisted solely of terraces. The East Stand was formed of uncovered terraces. Floodlights were first installed in 1961.[2] The ground also hosted football games for the 1948 Olympic Games, one of only two grounds outside London (the other being Fratton Park). The last game at The Goldstone was held on 26 April 1997, in which Brighton beat Doncaster Rovers 1-0. Between 1902 and 1997 the ground had admitted 22.9 million supporters to 2,174 games.[3] The largest attendance at the Goldstone was 36,747 when the Albion played Fulham F.C. on 27 December 1958.[4] The ground was sold by the board (who were trying to clear the club's mounting debts in an attempt to avoid bankruptcy) without consulting the fans, although no alternative football ground had been lined up. The then chairman, Bill Archer, aimed to profit from the sale of the lucrative development land on which the Goldstone stood. A ground share with Portsmouth never materialised and the club eventually arranged a ground-share with Gillingham at their Priestfield Stadium over 70 miles from Brighton. The Goldstone Ground was sold to property developers and it has since been redeveloped as a retail park which features several outlets including a new Toys 'R' Us store and a Burger King drive-thru. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 31 December, 2009 Share Posted 31 December, 2009 I like to view it as "nuclear holocaust is coming, and we are one of the few with an impenetrable bunker". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 31 December, 2009 Share Posted 31 December, 2009 Interesting post John. As with the property market, we keep waiting for the football financial bubble to burst, but will it? Murdoch is a clever guy. He ran up debts so big that the financial institutionscould not afford not to carry on funding him. Perhaps it is that way with football. To many it would be unthinkable for football to implode and go bust. Perhaps the financiers will continue to fund it despite what is going on with the global economy? Despite its current dire state many footballers wages are still ridiculous and apart from the the odd club threatened with admin the grvay train rolls on and on. Would clubs like Manchester United and Liverpool be allowed to collapse? No one gives a stuff about SFC or what goes on with Brighton but can you imagine the fall out if one of the big clubs went? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianoneils slidingtackle Posted 31 December, 2009 Share Posted 31 December, 2009 Newspapers reports suggest that 5 or more football clubs have winding up orders against them in the last few months, surely they wont all find investors, and if the football clubs owe each other money for tranfer fees etc etc, this could go the way of the banking crisis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joesaint Posted 31 December, 2009 Share Posted 31 December, 2009 I suppose we all have to wait and see, I have to say though I only want a finantially viable club with long term future, I do think something will happen that will bring football down to earth a bit but I also think with the big big clubs due to there extra income they may be OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 31 December, 2009 Share Posted 31 December, 2009 Considering the situation we are in now in regards to debt compared to other clubs, once the dust as settled from the inevitable implosion of football, will we become one of the dominant forces? I f*cking hope so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WealdSaint Posted 31 December, 2009 Share Posted 31 December, 2009 There is an old chinese curse........."may you live in interesting times". I think football in his country is about to have an interesting time. However, for our club things could not look brighter! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 31 December, 2009 Share Posted 31 December, 2009 Go wreck a few more looms Luddite! Not going to happen anytime soon - there may be corrections at the margins - salaries might not rise as quickly and ambitions might be scaled back as some clubs focus on paying down debt. And a few who had their fingers in finanace and property will get burnt but apart from Ashley that fallout has been limited. The biggest risks are at the yo-yo clubs who tried to break into the premiership at great expense (a la skates) and/or were relegated leading to a collapse in income (a la saints). Debt magnifies the yo-yo effect, so we might some consolidation in the areas but the rest, especially at the top, is as sustainable as ever. When I compare what I pay to watch a game and how much I would be willing to pay to watch a game, reflected partly by the sheer money I throw at transport (4-5 times what I pay for a ticket and sky sports subscription), the difference is extraordinary. Factor in all the other efficiencies and improvements that can be made - live streaming of your clubs games etc and add all that up on a global level and there's alot of pentup demand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Block 5 Posted 31 December, 2009 Share Posted 31 December, 2009 Zzzzzz......... PS. When copying and pasting entire Wiki articles please acknowledge the fact in your post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 31 December, 2009 Share Posted 31 December, 2009 people have been saying football will go pop since 1993....still has not happened..and the TV rights have only gone up.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Fan CaM Posted 31 December, 2009 Share Posted 31 December, 2009 Go wreck a few more looms Luddite! Not going to happen anytime soon - there may be corrections at the margins - salaries might not rise as quickly and ambitions might be scaled back as some clubs focus on paying down debt. And a few who had their fingers in finanace and property will get burnt but apart from Ashley that fallout has been limited. The biggest risks are at the yo-yo clubs who tried to break into the premiership at great expense (a la skates) and/or were relegated leading to a collapse in income (a la saints). Debt magnifies the yo-yo effect, so we might some consolidation in the areas but the rest, especially at the top, is as sustainable as ever. When I compare what I pay to watch a game and how much I would be willing to pay to watch a game, reflected partly by the sheer money I throw at transport (4-5 times what I pay for a ticket and sky sports subscription), the difference is extraordinary. Factor in all the other efficiencies and improvements that can be made - live streaming of your clubs games etc and add all that up on a global level and there's alot of pentup demand. Yeah, this is pretty much on the money for me. The 'big' clubs will not be affected - in fact if the club is bouncing between the CCC and the Prem there will not be a problem financially. Newcastle will go up, collect £60m and their problems will go away for awhile. Look at Birmingham - now sitting comfortable in the Prem without spending massive amounts of money like Spurs to push them into the top six. Most clubs are now happy not to compete with the 'big clubs' and survive in the Prem between positions 8th to 18th. Still get good gates - don't pay stupid salaries on foreign imports - keep the Sky money rolling in etc etc. I think most fans are savvy to all this too - expectations have levelled out and now it's less of a disgrace to drop into the CCC to re-group providing the club has been run in a financially sound way and can maintain a decent team to mount a promotion push immediately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INFLUENCED.COM Posted 31 December, 2009 Share Posted 31 December, 2009 "Al Mirage"....Brilliant, I think the whole thing is too far up everyone's arses to collapse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ringwood Posted 31 December, 2009 Share Posted 31 December, 2009 If Man U and Liverpool ever fell behind with a payment then yes trouble would be brewing, unlikely though, far more likely is someone like Bolton and of course the blue few. Far smaller media interest in them so less exposure to the far eastern markets for publicity seeking buyers. Hull, Wigan, Wolves etc will far it harder to get funds whereas Spuds, West Ham any London club will find it easier. The CCC is where I reckon the fallout will be biggest, Watford , Palace, the two Sheffield clubs all have fans expecting to be at the top of the table and eating at the top table in terms of players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 31 December, 2009 Share Posted 31 December, 2009 Hasnt the bubble already burst? Lost 2 out of last 3 games AP OUT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 31 December, 2009 Share Posted 31 December, 2009 Interesting post John. As with the property market, we keep waiting for the football financial bubble to burst, but will it? Murdoch is a clever guy. He ran up debts so big that the financial institutionscould not afford not to carry on funding him. Perhaps it is that way with football. To many it would be unthinkable for football to implode and go bust. Perhaps the financiers will continue to fund it despite what is going on with the global economy? Despite its current dire state many footballers wages are still ridiculous and apart from the the odd club threatened with admin the grvay train rolls on and on. Would clubs like Manchester United and Liverpool be allowed to collapse? No one gives a stuff about SFC or what goes on with Brighton but can you imagine the fall out if one of the big clubs went? I see Roman A has wiped clear or waived the debt Chelsea owe to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rory Posted 31 December, 2009 Share Posted 31 December, 2009 I don't half cringe sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 31 December, 2009 Share Posted 31 December, 2009 I see Roman A has wiped clear or waived the debt Chelsea owe to him. The expression used in the papers was 'converted', whatever that means. Presumably debt for equity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevtherev Posted 31 December, 2009 Share Posted 31 December, 2009 The expression used in the papers was 'converted', whatever that means. Presumably debt for equity? Thats what was said was done debt to equity, wondered what equity though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 31 December, 2009 Share Posted 31 December, 2009 Thats what was said was done debt to equity, wondered what equity though? Usually it means that loans to the company are converted into a shareholding thus diluting any other ownership. In the case of Chelsea I am not familiar with their current set-up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Without a Halo Posted 31 December, 2009 Share Posted 31 December, 2009 Thats what was said was done debt to equity, wondered what equity though? It means Roman owns even more of the club than he did before as everyone elses equity will be diluted by issuing new shares to cover the deby that will all vest to Roman A. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintwarwick Posted 31 December, 2009 Share Posted 31 December, 2009 I see Roman A has wiped clear or waived the debt Chelsea owe to him. He had to so Chelsea can continue to play in the champions league. Michael Platini has said all contesting clubs in the champions league had to break even in football business by 2012 or risk being booted out of the competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 3 January, 2010 Share Posted 3 January, 2010 Interesting piece in the FT http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/a672ae68-f897-11de-beb8-00144feab49a.html Basically Man U in talks with banks about a possible bond issue to help refinance its borrowings. Debt is close to £700m which they're struggling to bring down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsland Red Posted 3 January, 2010 Share Posted 3 January, 2010 Another recent FT article here; http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/02f5067e-f706-11de-9fb5-00144feab49a.html Interesting times indeed ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin C Posted 3 January, 2010 Share Posted 3 January, 2010 Won't be this year as it is World Cup year and the country will still want a lot of football. IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRobbie Posted 4 January, 2010 Share Posted 4 January, 2010 Interesting post John. As with the property market, we keep waiting for the football financial bubble to burst, but will it? Murdoch is a clever guy. He ran up debts so big that the financial institutionscould not afford not to carry on funding him. Perhaps it is that way with football. To many it would be unthinkable for football to implode and go bust. Perhaps the financiers will continue to fund it despite what is going on with the global economy? Despite its current dire state many footballers wages are still ridiculous and apart from the the odd club threatened with admin the grvay train rolls on and on. Would clubs like Manchester United and Liverpool be allowed to collapse? No one gives a stuff about SFC or what goes on with Brighton but can you imagine the fall out if one of the big clubs went? I disagree. There's more to a football club than just football. Saints represent our City and that alone induces pride to look for new ownership. Pompey will survive for the same reason, a little lower in the league and a tadge poorer methinks but they will survive in the same way Saints always were going to when Barclays evicted Rupert Lowe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 4 January, 2010 Share Posted 4 January, 2010 Whilst I am not a big fan of Platini, I do think there is a lot to be said for clubs being forced to live within their means. A wages cap on players would be near impossible these days but a cap on clubs wage bill in line with their turnover could work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 4 January, 2010 Share Posted 4 January, 2010 (edited) Won't be this year as it is World Cup year and the country will still want a lot of football. IMO. That is irrelevant. In any case there is a major international football competition every two years. So using your logic it will never burst! Edited 4 January, 2010 by Matthew Le God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cabrone Posted 4 January, 2010 Share Posted 4 January, 2010 I'd be happy to see this bubble burst, anything to make the playing field more level and end this utterly tedious procession of league tiles for Man U, Arsenal and Chelsea. Maybe then we'd get back to a much more competitive top division like it was in the 80s when teams like Ipswich, Saints, Norwich and even Watford had a crack at the top spot. Back then the likes of Man U still had an advantage over clubs like Saints BUT it was in proportion to the size of their fan base and was therefore not totally overwhelming. If one of the smaller clubs ran itself very well it always had a chance to successfully compete - now there is no chance whatsoever and top flight football is massively dull as a consequence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 4 January, 2010 Share Posted 4 January, 2010 That is irrelevant. In any case there is a major international football competition every two years. So using your logic it will never burst! and it never will...not in our lifetimes...the cycle of clubs at the top will slowly (possibly) change...like it always has done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jez Posted 4 January, 2010 Share Posted 4 January, 2010 A firesale of Newcastle is on the cards and relegation is not out of the question. Relegation for Newcastle? Really? Unless you're talking about next season and beyond, and then you could say that about any team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guided Missile Posted 4 January, 2010 Author Share Posted 4 January, 2010 Relegation for Newcastle? Really? I cut and pasted, from an original thread of mine from the 23rd September, 2008. Newcastle were in the Premiership, then... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INFLUENCED.COM Posted 4 January, 2010 Share Posted 4 January, 2010 If one of the smaller clubs ran itself very well it always had a chance to successfully compete - now there is no chance whatsoever and top flight football is massively dull as a consequence. Although not an avid watcher of the Premier, this season seems to be one of the most interesting for some time, I doubt very much if it will ever go back to the days you mention but you only have to look at who is top of the competition winning table on another thread to see that a team has always dominated, in the league now you have Villa pushing forward, Man City, Birmingham and it pains me to say Tottenham, others now playing top flight football like Burnley, Stoke, Wolves, all there so by default do have a crack at it(although a very outside chance), its just that the three teams you mention are not there, so with us included in that list it seems so much more unfair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jez Posted 4 January, 2010 Share Posted 4 January, 2010 I cut and pasted, from an original thread of mine from the 23rd September, 2008. Newcastle were in the Premiership, then... Fair enough. You were right then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctoroncall Posted 4 January, 2010 Share Posted 4 January, 2010 (edited) It would be a great pleasure to see the likes of Man Utd have money troubles which effect the investment into the playing side so they fall down the league. However, I cannot see that happening soon as I'm sure even if the present owners are finding it hard keeping up with loan repayments there are individuals who would buy the club if current owners need to sell (and still make some kind of profit). Edit: didn't realise their debt was growing so much!!! Soon the debt will be worth more than the club: http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=14620 Edited 6 January, 2010 by Doctoroncall adding extra info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joffystevens Posted 4 January, 2010 Share Posted 4 January, 2010 I believe something needs to be done about clubs and they're spendings. I was watching Sky Sports News and was nice to see Burnley chairman come out and say that "this was a family run club and they are not going to jepordise their financial health by spending £20-30 million" I believe that The FA has to do something because so many clubs have had major money problems and if that club doesn't have a multi-billionaire owner then they are having to sell and fall leagues. A lot of the time this results in less fans attending games and recieving less money from gate reciepts means even less income for the club. I don't mean the FA giving money to clubs when they are in trouble but something like salary caps could help. I agree with the person above saying it would be nice to see a massive club like Man Utd endure major money troubles like ourselves but it would have a massive blow to english football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now