Smokers

[SO16_Saint]

Taken from the conservative manifesto thread over on politics...

 

Should smokers be exempt from using NHS services for any smoking related illnesses?

 

And smoking should be banned inside the hospital grounds.

 

Discuss.....

[goes to hide under a rock from the fall out!]

Edited 15 April, 2010 by SO16_Saint

[Ponty]

Only if the revenue on cigarettes is dropped proportionately by the amount which goes to fund the NHS.

[aintforever]

Only if fat people can't use NHS for related conditions.

 

Or sports people can't use NHS for sport related injuries.

 

Or car drivers cant use NHS for traffic related injuries...

[revolution saint]

Only if the revenue on cigarettes is dropped proportionately by the amount which goes to fund the NHS.

 

And of course their NI contributions are lowered accordingly. Not only will they not be receiving medical treatment but on average they'll be drawing their pension for less years (if any).

[Johnny Bognor]

... and what about the scenario where a smoker is hurt/injured by a non-smoker where smoking has nothing to do with the said injury.

 

Having kids is a lifestyle choice, so may as well shut the maternity units.

 

I thought that the principle of the NHS - Free at the point of use for all - would apply to all. If it doesn't, may as well shut it down too.

Edited 14 April, 2010 by Johnny Bognor

[SO16_Saint]

Doing sport, driving cars, having kids don't directly negatively damage your health so is completely different.

 

It's a personal choice to smoke and damage yourself.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Johnny Bognor]

Doing sport, driving cars, having kids don't directly negatively damage your health so is completely different.

 

It's a personal choice to smoke and damage yourself.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

It's a personal choice to do sport (especially dangerous contact sports), drive cars (we can walk you know) and have kids.

 

Where do you draw the line..... perhaps non-taxpayers should be denied healthcare as they don't contribute to society and act as a drain on resources.

 

 

Sent from my Brain using Common Sense

[aintforever]

Doing sport, driving cars, having kids don't directly negatively damage your health so is completely different.

 

It's a personal choice to smoke and damage yourself.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

When I was a student I worked in a casualty ward as a porter, every weekend they were full up with people with football, rugby injuries - must cost the NHS a fortune.

 

Plus you have fat people, motor cyclists, alcoholics, drug addicts - all make lifestyle choices that cost the NHS money.

[Whitey Grandad]

Smokers should be banned from everything.

[dubai_phil]

There are around 100 Pubs in the small City of Salisbury.

 

It should be the choice of smoking Landlords who employ only smoking staff to allow customers to choose to smoke.

 

If a non smoker does not like it then they can go to one of the other 80 or so pubs.

 

But oh no, the smoking pubs would get busy and the non-smokers would complain they can't go in to a happening place without harming their health.

 

But they STILL drink alcohol....

 

So NHS should refuse to serve anyone who has injured themselves through consumption of alcohol or through abuse of it.

 

Domestic Violence is completely avoidable, all potential couples should undergo a Drving Test for compatibility and emotional balance or be refused Emergency Treatment.

 

How about a better idea. Everyone HAS to take out medical insurance and scrap National Insurance. Oh and of course Loss of income insurance.

 

Better disband the Army as well while we're on the subject.

[Scudamore]

Doing sport, driving cars, having kids don't directly negatively damage your health so is completely different.

 

It's a personal choice to smoke and damage yourself.

 

And yet drinking booze and eating too much and thus being a lard arse do directly negatively damage your health. Both of which are personal choices. Where exactly do we draw the line here?

[Scudamore]

I just copied what you'd written there...is it possible to damage your health in a positive way?

Edited 14 April, 2010 by Scudamore

[revolution saint]

Doing sport, driving cars, having kids don't directly negatively damage your health so is completely different.

 

It's a personal choice to smoke and damage yourself.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Smoking doesn't always damage your health the same as driving cars and doing sport don't either. Surely your point is if it does result in a smoking related illness then treatment is refused? Exactly the same can be applied to driving and participating in sport then?

 

Sent from my poncy phone that will probably give me ear cancer, or cancer of the thumb.

[Whitey Grandad]

Smoking doesn't always damage your health the same as driving cars and doing sport don't either. Surely your point is if it does result in a smoking related illness then treatment is refused? Exactly the same can be applied to driving and participating in sport then?

 

Sent from my poncy phone that will probably give me ear cancer, or cancer of the thumb.

You can believe that if you like, but it ain't true. I've seen too may friends and relatives eaten away by the dreaded addiction.

[Smirking_Saint]

Well sounds a resounding no then !!

 

As much as i hate smokers, and rejoiced when the smoking ban came in and was astounded when all of the smokers believed that the non smokers should be the ones that left the pub/restaurant !!

 

You can't ban smokers from NHS treatment, thats just mental and could open a whole can of worms.

 

For example.

 

"i am sorry sir, we cannot treat you for that inury, it was your fault for doing the hoovering naked' :smt102

[revolution saint]

You can believe that if you like, but it ain't true. I've seen too may friends and relatives eaten away by the dreaded addiction.

 

So people who smoke ONLY die of smoking related diseases? Of course it increases the chance of illness, but not for everyone. So whilst it's sad you know people who smoked who died of smoking related illnesses I'm sure you know people who smoked who died of other causes? I do.

[Doctoroncall]

Only if the revenue on cigarettes is dropped proportionately by the amount which goes to fund the NHS.

 

I don't think the revenue covers the cost of smoking related illness. If some one has the time to find out it would be interesting to know how close it is.

[SO16_Saint]

Crikes.

 

I wasn't saying that I believe this should happen, just asking the question.

 

And I've managed to turn that annoying 'sent from' thing too!

[Johnny Bognor]

Crikes.

I wasn't saying that I believe this should happen, just asking the question.

 

TBF Bridgey, I think you were expecting it.

 

Discuss.....

[goes to hide under a rock from the fall out!]

[CB Saint]

I like smokers. If it wasn't for their tax revenune the government would have to put another 2p on basic rate. Light up and enjoy.

[View From The Top]

Smoking is a great way a letting natual selection weed out the idiot gene.

[SO16_Saint]

TBF Bridgey, I think you were expecting it.

 

 

True - but i dont believe it should happen.... just playing devils advocate

[Scudamore]

Smoking is a great way a letting natual selection weed out the idiot gene.

 

Indeed. Everyone that smokes is an idiot. Pompous fool.

[tombletomble]

I don't think the revenue covers the cost of smoking related illness. If some one has the time to find out it would be interesting to know how close it is.

 

 

I don't have the exact figures to hands but am very sure that the revenue collected on tabbaco far exceedes the costs of treating tabboaco related illnesses.

[View From The Top]

Indeed. Everyone that smokes is an idiot. Pompous fool.

 

Because it's a really sensible, thought out lifestyle choice isn't it?

 

So yes, everyone who smokes is an idiot.

[Scudamore]

True - but i dont believe it should happen.... just playing devils advocate

 

Playing devil's advocate eh? Silly me. I thought you obviously had issues with the Conservatives is why you really started the thread. Your thread comes across as if smokers should be exempt from using NHS services for any smoking related illnesses is Conservative policy.

 

Just to clear up for anyone who may have come to the same conclusion - here is an excerpt from the Conservative manifesto from which such a ropey thread has been cobbled together.

 

A healthier nation

 

Lifestyle-linked health problems like obesity and smoking, an ageing population, and the spread of infectious diseases are leading to soaring costs for the NHS. At the same time, the difference in male life expectancy between the richest and poorest areas in our country is now greater than during Victorian times.

 

We will turn the Department of Health into a Department for Public Health so that the promotion of good health and prevention of illness get the attention they need. We will provide separate public health funding to local communities, which will be accountable for – and paid according to – how successful they are in improving their residents’ health. In addition, we will:

 

- introduce a health premium – weighting public health funding towards the poorest areas with the worst health outcomes;

 

- enable welfare-to-work providers and employers to purchase services from Mental Health Trusts; and,

 

- increase access to effective ‘talking’ therapies.

[Scudamore]

Because it's a really sensible, thought out lifestyle choice isn't it?

 

So yes, everyone who smokes is an idiot.

 

Thank you mother superior. I suppose you've never had a booze and drugs binge that's resulted in waking up three days later in an alleyway with glass in your shoes and a tattoo of the queen on your arse either? Poor thing.

[IamLeGod]

Thank you mother superior. I suppose you've never had a booze and drugs binge that's resulted in waking up three days later in an alleyway with glass in your shoes and a tattoo of the queen on your arse either? Poor thing.

 

FFS I hate it when that happens...

[SO16_Saint]

Playing devil's advocate eh? Silly me. I thought you obviously had issues with the Conservatives is why you really started the thread. Your thread comes across as if smokers should be exempt from using NHS services for any smoking related illnesses is Conservative policy.

 

Just to clear up for anyone who may have come to the same conclusion - here is an excerpt from the Conservative manifesto from which such a ropey thread has been cobbled together.

 

Ah, sorry - no - didn't have a clue this was part of their manifesto / policy.

[View From The Top]

Thank you mother superior. I suppose you've never had a booze and drugs binge that's resulted in waking up three days later in an alleyway with glass in your shoes and a tattoo of the queen on your arse either? Poor thing.

 

I'm an ex-smoker and therefore zealot. :smt059

[saintfully]

I'm an ex-smoker and therefore zealot. :smt059

 

 

Obama is a smoker - when I found that out my respect for him went up in direct proportion to the amount my respect for you went down having read your most recent posts.

 

I smoke and I fu.ckin luv it

 

(although, yes, tbh Im planning to stop and yes it is a horrible corrupting habit - I do like the general gesture of 'fu.ck u' that it offers to all non-smokers though)

[View From The Top]

Obama is a smoker - when I found that out my respect for him went up in direct proportion to the amount my respect for you went down having read your most recent posts.

 

I smoke and I fu.ckin luv it

 

(although, yes, tbh Im planning to stop and yes it is a horrible corrupting habit - I do like the general gesture of 'fu.ck u' that it offers to all non-smokers though)

 

You love it so much that you plan to stop as it's horrible.

 

No contridiction there then.

[solentstars]

i hate smokeing and find them weak that they are dominated by such a small thing has a fag with their bad bo they reek of but they are still entitled to nhs services in my opinion.

[Scudamore]

i hate smokeing and find them weak that they are dominated by such a small thing has a fag with their bad bo they reek of but they are still entitled to nhs services in my opinion.

 

Is there a link between body odour and smoking then?!

[saintfully]

You love it so much that you plan to stop as it's horrible.

 

No contridiction there then.

 

What can I say, lifes complicated and so am I.

[solentstars]

Is there a link between body odour and smoking then?!

 

the bo of the smokers on their clothes.most non smokers can smell it a mile off.

[SNSUN]

Only if fat people can't use NHS for related conditions.

 

Or sports people can't use NHS for sport related injuries.

 

Or car drivers cant use NHS for traffic related injuries...

 

+1.

 

I quit smoking 9 days ago, and it's going well so far. Yes it's at the early stages, but I'm hoping it lasts forever. I quit smoking not because I want to, I like smoking, but I'm doing it for health and finance issues. I don't want to die young, I don't want to miss my future children growing up. I don't want to spend a fortune on buying smokes. However, if I don't get free NHS now that I've quit, there's no point in quitting. Also, I could just "say" I've quit smoking to get NHS care. There are too many ifs and buts.

[Weston Super Saint]

Smoking is a great way a letting natual selection weed out the idiot gene.

 

That is possibly the most stupid thing you've ever written VFTT!

 

It's almost like saying that 'life is a great way of letting natural selection weed out the idiot gene', since everyone who is alive is gonna die too!

 

Not entirely sure how you've reached your conclusion since smoking related diseases in general affect the more elderly. People who generally speaking have had a chance to have children, thus ensuring this 'idiot gene' is passed on

[Doctoroncall]

I don't have the exact figures to hands but am very sure that the revenue collected on tabbaco far exceedes the costs of treating tabboaco related illnesses.

 

You're right, from these links: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/8086142.stm

 

and http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/cigarette_tax_receipts_v_cost_of

 

it's about a factor of 2, so keep smoking people, your country needs you (well your tax anyway)!

[Ponty]

How come no one believed me when I posted that as fact twice on this forum?

[Dog]

Has Pancack given up fags recently Ponty?

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

I smoke (although regularly trying to give up)

I drink heavily (I enjoy it)

I eat red meat (its good with Red wine)

 

It is none of the goverment's business and if I get ill then you will not have to pay for me to play scrabble in an old peoples home for ten years.

[Whitey Grandad]

 

So people who smoke ONLY die of smoking related diseases? Of course it increases the chance of illness, but not for everyone. So whilst it's sad you know people who smoked who died of smoking related illnesses I'm sure you know people who smoked who died of other causes? I do.

Please don't think that it's a question of whether or not you'll get a disease of some sort. The damage is cumulative in all sorts of ways, arterial damage, skin damage, lungs to name but a few. I debated this years ago with my business partner and he said: 'but nobody can point a finger at you and say that you will get lung cancer'. He died 7 years ago next August at the age of 64. From lung cancer.

 

On the general point of universal health treatment, this is a fundamental problem throughout the NHS, deciding who, out of the many deserving causes, should get treated from what will always be limited resources.

[sadoldgit]

Just put the tax up to £25 per packet of coffin nails and give all the cash to the NHS.

 

Simples.

[tombletomble]

Just put the tax up to £25 per packet of coffin nails and give all the cash to the NHS.

 

Simples.

 

Not really.

 

If you raise the tax to high too quickly then too many people wont be able to afford them which would then result in a huge deacresae in tax revenue, something the govt can't afford right now.

 

Three would also be increases in crime, from peole staling to pay for fags to increased sumggling. All of this would would require extra policing, which would cost more money.

[sadoldgit]

Not really.

 

If you raise the tax to high too quickly then too many people wont be able to afford them which would then result in a huge deacresae in tax revenue, something the govt can't afford right now.

 

Three would also be increases in crime, from peole staling to pay for fags to increased sumggling. All of this would would require extra policing, which would cost more money.

 

I think that a lot of people would still pay that, and in the longer run it would save money for the NHS (and save lives so people pay tax longer).

 

It anyone tried to get a licence to produce tobacco (and booze) now it would never happen.

 

It is odd that the Government are happy to take money from things that harm or even kill people but they don't want to legalise prostitution. You could argue that it would be a far better world if people were having more sex and reducing the amount of toxins they were putting into their bodies.

[sadoldgit]

Taken from the conservative manifesto thread over on politics...

 

Should smokers be exempt from using NHS services for any smoking related illnesses?

 

And smoking should be banned inside the hospital grounds.

 

Discuss.....

[goes to hide under a rock from the fall out!]

 

(As a confirmed drinker) you could argue that why should people who don't reguarly put toxins (boooze, fags, drugs) into their bodies subsidise the healthcare of people who do.

[Scudamore]

I think that a lot of people would still pay that, and in the longer run it would save money for the NHS (and save lives so people pay tax longer).

 

It anyone tried to get a licence to produce tobacco (and booze) now it would never happen.

 

It is odd that the Government are happy to take money from things that harm or even kill people but they don't want to legalise prostitution. You could argue that it would be a far better world if people were having more sex and reducing the amount of toxins they were putting into their bodies.

 

I enjoy having a smoke after my meals. Not so sure i'd ever feel the need to chuck it up a whore after my meal though.

 

Perhaps your opinion could be swayed if i said that Lawrie McMenemy used to enjoy a smoke when he was failing to get us instant success back in the old days.

 

Ah...the old days...

[sadoldgit]

I enjoy having a smoke after my meals. Not so sure i'd ever feel the need to chuck it up a whore after my meal though.

 

Perhaps your opinion could be swayed if i said that Lawrie McMenemy used to enjoy a smoke when he was failing to get us instant success back in the old days.

 

Ah...the old days...

 

LOL, perhaps he would have had "instant success" if he had substituted some rumpy pumpy for a fag

[RedAndWhite91]

....

Edited 16 April, 2010 by RedAndWhite91
meh