david in sweden Posted 16 April, 2011 Share Posted 16 April, 2011 (edited) ...noting that Drew Surman got Norwich's winner last night, and consolidated their automatic promotion spot..it seemed ironic when I recalled that Drew, although born in S.Africa of So'ton-born parents (grew up in Portswood) and was a dedicated Saints fan was youngest-ever to play for Reserves in 2002, before gaining first team place. Forcibly sold to Wolves when we were on the brink of extinction whilst the Administrator dithered over the Pinnacle bid, and before Marcus Liebherr was allowed to put his cash on the table, and so too, Nathan Dyer who was sold to Swansea for a fraction of his true value. I thought back to others in the last 10 years who left the club..not always willingly. midfielder Hassan Katchloul, Morrocan international who walked into the Dell and asked for a trial in 1998. He fitted to well into that late 90's side with Beattie and Pahars as well as contributing a few valuable goals. Sadly (as the story goes) a greedy agent persuaded him the grass would be greener at Norwich, although he eventually moved to Villa at the last minute where he failed to fit in,( as with his spell at Wolves). Gone but not forgotten. The Academy produced a dozen or more "starlets" who moved on and made careers at other clubs..often in CCC and Prem. Obviously, the names of Walcott and Bale stay firm in the mind because of the " offers we couldn't refuse" at the time, but a few came to mind. Few fans lamented the departure of Leon Best first to Coventry, or David McGoldrick who returned to Nottingham as the prodigal but both seem to have cemented a good spot in their respective sides, as did the young Dexter Blackstock who left for a reported £500K (to QPR) when being fifth-choice striker at SMS. Matt Oakley, another good young player struggled hard with a terrible knee injury and left in disgust when only offered a new one year contract, but is still a driving force in CCC (now) with Sven-Göran Erikssons Leicester. A few others departed when their Academy days were over and they hadn't (then made the grade with Saints). Mike Williamsson (Newcastle ?) together with Nile Ranger who was(allegedly) branded a bad influence in the dressing room, as was Brian Howard who feel out with the (then) manager, but still went on to higher things. The "other " Crainey " lad recruited by Strachan?..moved on and matured into a Premiership spot with Ian Holloway's Blackpool side. Obviously some players do "mature" late on; Martin Crainie and Matt Mills being two examples, but you can't keep everyone in the hope that one day they might turn into " real footballers ". In the nervy few weeks ahead, as we stand on the brink and look at the increasing injury list, I can't help thinking it might feel a little better, if we still had one or two of the above ...still on the books. NOTE : No direct criticism intended to any of the present personal at SMS : Edited 16 April, 2011 by david in sweden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deppo Posted 16 April, 2011 Share Posted 16 April, 2011 ...noting that Drew Surman got Norwich's winner last night, and consolidated their automatic promotion spot..it seemed ironic when I recalled that Drew, although born in S.Africa of So'ton-born parents (grew up in Portswood) and was a dedicated Saints fan was youngest-ever to play for Reserves in 2002, before gaining first team place. Forcibly sold to Wolves when we were on the brink of extinction whilst the Administrator dithered over the Pinnacle bid, and before Marcus Liebherr was allowed to put his cash on the table, and so too, Nathan Dyer who was sold to Swansea for a fraction of his true value. It's about as ironic as rain on your wedding day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveyR Posted 16 April, 2011 Share Posted 16 April, 2011 And Kevin Phillips? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNSUN Posted 16 April, 2011 Share Posted 16 April, 2011 Que sera sera. I agree we've lost great players in the past, but there's little point looking back on it. Look to the future, and hope we're under the guidance that sees us keep our better players and youngsters. We can learn from the past, we cannot change it, so there's no point getting upset over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 16 April, 2011 Author Share Posted 16 April, 2011 Que sera sera. I agree we've lost great players in the past, but there's little point looking back on it. Look to the future, and hope we're under the guidance that sees us keep our better players and youngsters. We can learn from the past, we cannot change it, so there's no point getting upset over it. I wasn't upset, merely reminiscing over some of the poor judgement calls that some previous Saints personnel had made. Although for me the putty medal goes to Rupert Lowe, who decided NOT to sign a young African striker named Didier Drogba because he thought that (DD) ..had a bit of an attitude!. Please God send us someone with an attitude ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 16 April, 2011 Share Posted 16 April, 2011 I thought back to others in the last 10 years who left the club..not always willingly. midfielder Hassan Katchloul, Morrocan international who walked into the Dell and asked for a trial in 1998. He fitted to well into that late 90's side with Beattie and Pahars as well as contributing a few valuable goals. Sadly (as the story goes) a greedy agent persuaded him the grass would be greener at Norwich, although he eventually moved to Villa at the last minute where he failed to fit in,( as with his spell at Wolves). Gone but not forgotten. I think fans of most clubs would lament the leaving (willingly or unwillingly) of players, but I do sometimes wonder whether we have more than our fair share??? Maybe it is a direct result of a successful Academy (we can't play them all) and also something to do with our revolving managerial door policy of recent years (each new manager comes in and plays his own players). One positive, one negative????? As for Kachloul, then have to say he was one of my favourite players in that era (desptie his short stay) as I managed to get to know him off the pitch and enjoyed the way he played on it (I was never sure how good he was though!!!!!). He was also part of a pretty decent team and watching the Arsenal YouTube clip someone posted up here reminded me of how close we were to having a very decent side (before that team was split up). His two goals in that game also helped!!! It was Ipswich, not Norwich, that he agreed to sign for only to renege, and given the terms we were offering him for a new contract (along with the "He could live like a King back in hi own country" quote) I could see why his agent was suggesting he could get more elsewhere (Ipswich were offering something like double, whilst Villa quadrupled+ his earnings). In an era where I do think players have too much power and are paid too much, even I found it difficult to criticise someone who ultimately was looking after number one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 16 April, 2011 Share Posted 16 April, 2011 It was also very disappointing when Chris Baird left for Fulham. Not too bothered about any of the others you mention except Oaks, one of Burley's many finest moments (not) replacing him with Jermaine Wright. Leon Best was unfairly slated by many supporters, he should not have been given the responsibility of taking the pen in the shoot-out, perhaps again another cock-up by Burley and the senior players at the time, but have to say even when scoring a few for Newcastle recently gives an impression (rightly or wrongly) of being a legend in his own mind, much like Puncheon. Mike Williamson never even got a game for us after we brought him in from Torquay, but seems to have done well. I was always concerned with Surman that he was let down by a basic lack of pace, but then again perhaps even that could be laid at the door of George, who turned out the most unfit team I have ever witnessed. Is there a theme here? Lost players and George Burley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 16 April, 2011 Author Share Posted 16 April, 2011 (edited) It was also very disappointing when Chris Baird left for Fulham. Not too bothered about any of the others you mention except Oaks, one of Burley's many finest moments (not) replacing him with Jermaine Wright. Leon Best was unfairly slated by many supporters, he should not have been given the responsibility of taking the pen in the shoot-out, perhaps again another cock-up by Burley and the senior players at the time, but have to say even when scoring a few for Newcastle recently gives an impression (rightly or wrongly) of being a legend in his own mind, much like Puncheon. Mike Williamson never even got a game for us after we brought him in from Torquay, but seems to have done well. I was always concerned with Surman that he was let down by a basic lack of pace, but then again perhaps even that could be laid at the door of George, who turned out the most unfit team I have ever witnessed. Is there a theme here? Lost players and George Burley. Although I didn't mention him..I agree with you about Baird. Surely one of the most patient players ever to pull on a Saints shirt. Came from N.I. aged 16 (with Alan Blayney). in 1998 and didn't debut until March 2003. Then had to wait till an injury crisis in 2004..05 ? to get his chance and looked very stable in the back line for the whole season before moving to Fulham where, if the truth were told, would surely have replaced him if he weren't upto standard for the Prem, but he remains a key man in their defence..and a regular for N.I. for seasons past and ...he's still not 30 ! **Blayney, of course made those unbelieveable saves from Alan Shearer in the Premier League game v. Newcastle (see U-tube) won Save-of-the season, and later released when (as now)we had a string of goalies, none of whom was really up to the job . As I recall ..Williamson came from Torquay as a .16 year old?. After time with the Reserves and was later loaned out to an up-an-coming Wycombe side for a couple of seasons before we released him totally. At that time the managers were playing musical chairs at SMS and no-one took a good look at him in order to decide if he should stay or not. Later moved on from there and now with ...Newcastle?... did I see ? Edited 16 April, 2011 by david in sweden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowgli Posted 16 April, 2011 Share Posted 16 April, 2011 Wasn't the Drogba decision based on his wife? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 16 April, 2011 Author Share Posted 16 April, 2011 Wasn't the Drogba decision based on his wife? Not sure ..? the rest of my version says... that he wanted an extra thousand a week above the pittance we offered him in the first place..and RL said NO!. An expensive cost-saving exercise, as it turned out ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 16 April, 2011 Share Posted 16 April, 2011 (edited) Although I didn't mention him..I agree with you about Baird. Surely one of the most patient players ever to pull on a Saints shirt. Came from N.I. aged 16 (with Alan Blayney). in 1998 and didn't debut until March 2003. Then had to wait till an injury crisis in 2004..05 ? to get his chance and looked very stable in the back line for the whole season before moving to Fulham where, if the truth were told, would surely have replaced him if he weren't upto standard for the Prem, but he remains a key man in their defence..and a regular for N.I. for seasons past and ...he's still not 30 ! **Blayney, of course made those unbelieveable saves from Alan Shearer in the Premier League game v. Newcastle (see U-tube) won Save-of-the season, and later released when (as now)we had a string of goalies, none of whom was really up to the job . As I recall ..Williamson came from Torquay as a .16 year old?. After time with the Reserves and was later loaned out to an up-an-coming Wycombe side for a couple of seasons before we released him totally. At that time the managers were playing musical chairs at SMS and no-one took a good look at him in order to decide if he should stay or not. Later moved on from there and now with ...Newcastle?... did I see ? Williamson certainly is at Newcastle, their supporters think he is a bit dodgy, nonetheless seems to hod down a fairly regular place. I feel sometimes that the Academy system, especially at Saints, is great for churning out strikers and attacking midfielders, not to mention left back of course, but for central defenders and keepers I'm not convinced it works well. We seem to insist on taking in athletes where possible, usually intelligent ones at that, and CBs and keepers don't necessarily fit in with this idea (you have to be mental to be a keeper). They also mature much later usually, it must be really difficult for a Club to keep a CB/keeper until they are ready for the first team in their mid 20s. Too many keepers spend most of their career sitting on the bench in my opinion, one of the drawbacks of 7 subs and no proper reserve team football. Keepers especially are hardly ever needed as subs (not forgetting Niemi/Jones at Cardiff of course). Edited 16 April, 2011 by VectisSaint Confused Blayney with Bevan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 16 April, 2011 Share Posted 16 April, 2011 Not sure ..? the rest of my version says... that he wanted an extra thousand a week above the pittance we offered him in the first place..and RL said NO!. An expensive cost-saving exercise, as it turned out ! Perhaps we could get Drogba in for next season. With the free-scoring Torres it seems like Chelski are looking to unload Didier at the end of the season. It would all make perfect sense, would be a good back up for Barney, especially if he is unavailable next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulwantsapint Posted 16 April, 2011 Share Posted 16 April, 2011 Aaron Martin is a rare thing it seems a young kid getting 1st games at CB One Size Fitz Hall was offloaded because nobody at club in summer 04 said Killer is struggling for fitness only leaving 3 cb Claus, Higginbottom & Hall knowing Le Saux at lb wasn't going to play whol season meaning DH would play lb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 16 April, 2011 Author Share Posted 16 April, 2011 Williamson certainly is at Newcastle, their supporters think he is a bit dodgy, nonetheless seems to hod down a fairly regular place. I feel sometimes that the Academy system, especially at Saints, is great for churning out strikers and attacking midfielders, not to mention left back of course, but for central defenders and keepers I'm not convinced it works well. We seem to insist on taking in athletes where possible, usually intelligent ones at that, and CBs and keepers don't necessarily fit in with this idea (you have to be mental to be a keeper). They also mature much later usually, it must be really difficult for a Club to keep a CB/keeper until they are ready for the first team in their mid 20s. Too many keepers spend most of their career sitting on the bench in my opinion, one of the drawbacks of 7 subs and no proper reserve team football. Keepers especially are hardly ever needed as subs (not forgetting Niemi/Jones at Cardiff of course). You're right about the keepers. Very few top class keepers come through at a young age. Shilton did, and so too Joe Hart but many have to wait till their mid/late 20's before they get a regular spot, and many top keepers are in their mid 30's / Van der Sar is 40. Like wise young-ish central defenders are few and far between. Aaron Martin seems to have started well, but many of them "grow" alongside good CH's and learn that way. Saints have had a few examples in the past. Paul Bennett and Manny Andruszewski played alongside Mel Blyth and Jim Steele in the mid 70's, Chris Nicholl was the next "big name " CH, and Malcolm Waldron learned alongside him. England CH Dave Watson continued the trend until the young Mark Wright took over and partnered with Kevin Bond for a couple of seasons. By the time the Premiership arrived 1992 there was little chance of experimenting with young hopefuls although both Frannie Benali and Richard Hall filled those roles adequately in the mid 90's until we got the great partnerships of central defenders. Monkou / Lundekvam; Richards / Lundekvam; and finally Michael Svensson and Lundekvam sínce when only Chris Baird distinguished himself in the last days of the Premiership, again with Claus Lundekvam. Youthful goalkeepers are almost non-existent. Alan Blayney played a few good games but was never better than 3rd choice. Tim Flowers (came aged 19) and eventaully got the spot before moving onto Blackburn, but going back beyond that the only names that come to mind are Gerry Gurr in the late 60's and Tony Godfrey and Bob Charles back in the early 1960's. Goalies, it seems are not born, but take years to " grow old " in the job, before they can make it their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victor Posted 17 April, 2011 Share Posted 17 April, 2011 Scott Macdonald would be extremely useful just at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Flying Finn Posted 17 April, 2011 Share Posted 17 April, 2011 Kevin Davies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huntingdon Posted 17 April, 2011 Share Posted 17 April, 2011 Tim Sparv is an interesting one Most Saints will remember him as the guy who lost us the FA Youth Cup Final when missing a sitter, but he's now become a Finnish International and a highly rated midfielder for Groningen in the Dutch Premier Division Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SO16_Saint Posted 17 April, 2011 Share Posted 17 April, 2011 Not one 'we let go' per se but one that went too soon was Michael Svensson. Imagine where we would be with him still in the team... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 17 April, 2011 Share Posted 17 April, 2011 Not sure ..? the rest of my version says... that he wanted an extra thousand a week above the pittance we offered him in the first place..and RL said NO!. An expensive cost-saving exercise, as it turned out ! If i remember rightly it was in Strachans autobiograpy is was Adebeyor who was the one Lowe decided against signing due to his attitude. We could have signed Drogba and Maluda for a combined fee of £3.5m before Drogba signed for Marseille and Lowe felt it was too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SO16_Saint Posted 17 April, 2011 Share Posted 17 April, 2011 If i remember rightly it was in Strachans autobiograpy is was Adebeyor who was the one Lowe decided against signing due to his attitude. We could have signed Drogba and Maluda for a combined fee of £3.5m before Drogba signed for Marseille and Lowe felt it was too much. Strachan was on Goals on Sunday this morning. They showed a clip of the FA cup final, and he said that Lowe was over the moon that we got drawn to play in yellow, as the takings in the club shop were amazing.... Brilliantly open and frank interview. Funny funny guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfc1971 Posted 17 April, 2011 Share Posted 17 April, 2011 I would have liked to see Fitz Hall stay with us also Jean Paull Seiz was quality, I also think back in the day we turned down a chance to sign Tore Andre Flo ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 18 April, 2011 Author Share Posted 18 April, 2011 I would have liked to see Fitz Hall stay with us also Jean Paull Seiz was quality, I also think back in the day we turned down a chance to sign Tore Andre Flo ? .......and Didier Drogba and the YOUNG Kevin Phillips, and the even younger Dennis Wise ..Ah well! (I read that Arsenal turned down David Beckham after a trial as a teenager !) - can't get them all right -can you ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 18 April, 2011 Author Share Posted 18 April, 2011 If i remember rightly it was in Strachans autobiograpy is was Adebeyor who was the one Lowe decided against signing due to his attitude. We could have signed Drogba and Maluda for a combined fee of £3.5m before Drogba signed for Marseille and Lowe felt it was too much. OK Turkish (and Bridgey) ..confusion of names, but the basis of it was about right I think. Part of the problem with Chairmen who want to run the team, as well as buying the players. It's the managers job to " tame the wild ones " if he wants to get them, the Chairman should stay out of the dressing room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 18 April, 2011 Share Posted 18 April, 2011 OK Turkish (and Bridgey) ..confusion of names, but the basis of it was about right I think. Part of the problem with Chairmen who want to run the team, as well as buying the players. It's the managers job to " tame the wild ones " if he wants to get them, the Chairman should stay out of the dressing room. Dont disagree with the above, but what has been missing from these signing stories (and what we quickly forget about when its us and not 'them' down the road) is that for whatever reason, rightly or wrongly we had a wage structure and policy that Lowe refused to break - we 'lived within our means'. A grand extra for one player can quickly become a grand extra for 20 as they all start to demand what 'he' has got... especially as agents all talk to each otehr and before you know it.... Why is it we are more than happy to slag the 'cheats' down the road for the same principle, signing players onm wages they could not afford, beyond tehir means, yet ignore that when it comes to Saints... ? At the time in question we were breaking even, something that about a squillion posts on the 'pompey cheats thread' suggests they should have been doing..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 18 April, 2011 Share Posted 18 April, 2011 Aaron Martin is a rare thing it seems a young kid getting 1st games at CB One Size Fitz Hall was offloaded because nobody at club in summer 04 said Killer is struggling for fitness only leaving 3 cb Claus, Higginbottom & Hall knowing Le Saux at lb wasn't going to play whol season meaning DH would play lb In a littany of Lowe f**k-ups, this was for me the worst and was one of the main factors in our relegation, along with leaving Wigley as manager for so long. Definitely the season Lowe got too big for his boots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughieslastminutegoal Posted 18 April, 2011 Share Posted 18 April, 2011 ... Youthful goalkeepers are almost non-existent. Alan Blayney played a few good games but was never better than 3rd choice. Tim Flowers (came aged 19) and eventaully got the spot before moving onto Blackburn, but going back beyond that the only names that come to mind are Gerry Gurr in the late 60's and Tony Godfrey and Bob Charles back in the early 1960's. Goalies, it seems are not born, but take years to " grow old " in the job, before they can make it their own. Tony Godfrey would have been better had he actually grown. What was he, 5'9"? Would have been an excellent keper if he'd been taller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 18 April, 2011 Share Posted 18 April, 2011 OK Turkish (and Bridgey) ..confusion of names, but the basis of it was about right I think. Part of the problem with Chairmen who want to run the team, as well as buying the players. It's the managers job to " tame the wild ones " if he wants to get them, the Chairman should stay out of the dressing room. I'm pretty sure after the cup final season Strachan also wanted to sign Saha and Malbranque from Fulham and said he could have got the pair for £12m. Lowe said wouldn't do it and said "why would we make our rivals financially stronger and ourselves financially weaker" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alain Perrin Posted 18 April, 2011 Share Posted 18 April, 2011 According to urban legend Lowe failed to sign Drogba, Ronaldo and Rooney because of a shortage of o's in the shirt printing department. But, to be honest, I think there's been too much vitriol flowing under the bridge of Lowe hatred for any of the stories of 'missed' signings to be given much basis. I do agree with the Fitz Hall comment but hindsight is a wonderful thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 18 April, 2011 Share Posted 18 April, 2011 According to urban legend Lowe failed to sign Drogba, Ronaldo and Rooney because of a shortage of o's in the shirt printing department. But, to be honest, I think there's been too much vitriol flowing under the bridge of Lowe hatred for any of the stories of 'missed' signings to be given much basis. I do agree with the Fitz Hall comment but hindsight is a wonderful thing. They were all in Gordon Strachans autobiography, he could have made them all up to sell a few extra copies i suppose, but then i doubt Man Utd, Aberdeen and Leeds fans who also brought copy would give a f*ck that Southampton failed to sign a couple of unknown Africans because their chairman was a c*ck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alain Perrin Posted 18 April, 2011 Share Posted 18 April, 2011 I've read his autobiography and (by my recollection) they weren't in there to such detail. But it was a while ago. Regardless, for every missed Drogba there's a Theo, so on balance - regardless of who your chairman is - generally it balances out. My point is (and as your "was a c*ck" comment illustrates), there is too much bad blood for Lowe's failures (or achievements) to be discussed objectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(not THE) Kevin Moore Posted 18 April, 2011 Share Posted 18 April, 2011 Less obviously, Monk also played in the 3-2 game against Arsenal (referenced when mentioning Kachloul) and he's gone to carve out a pretty good career at Swansea, and looks to be on the cusp of premiership football once again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 18 April, 2011 Share Posted 18 April, 2011 I've read his autobiography and (by my recollection) they weren't in there to such detail. But it was a while ago. Regardless, for every missed Drogba there's a Theo, so on balance - regardless of who your chairman is - generally it balances out. My point is (and as your "was a c*ck" comment illustrates), there is too much bad blood for Lowe's failures (or achievements) to be discussed objectively. That premise makes it sound like if we'd got Drogba we wouldn't have had Theo, which is of course complete nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alain Perrin Posted 18 April, 2011 Share Posted 18 April, 2011 That premise makes it sound like if we'd got Drogba we wouldn't have had Theo, which is of course complete nonsense. It's not nonsense. If you assume we had (which we did back then) a limited amount of money then investment choices have to be made. Who's to say that investing in Malbranque or some untried africans wouldn't have an impact on the budget to invest in youth. But you misinterpret my point, it was to say that every club can point to success stories (either home grown or bought in for a steal), but they'll also have their fair share of bad buys or ones that got away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerceSaint28 Posted 18 April, 2011 Share Posted 18 April, 2011 Obviously players who came through our youth set up and we never played in the first team always crop up in my head Mathew Mills - good centre half at Reading, cost them £3mill Mike Williamson - Newcastle paid about £3mill for him and he is a prem player Brian Howard - good champ player, always gone for good money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 18 April, 2011 Share Posted 18 April, 2011 Hahaha, loving the way that time changes stories in regards to Drogba etc. Next we'll be hearing we could have signed Vieri and Toldo for a combined £0.87p but Lowe turned them down cos he didn't like their shoes. Drogba chose to go to Marseille ahead of us (who knew?) and Adebayor had an attitude problem (which to be fair, he did). £12m for Saha and Malbranque, £10m for Rosicky. All well and good if we had the money for that, which we didn't. This has been argued time after time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sambosa75 Posted 18 April, 2011 Share Posted 18 April, 2011 Probably worth also pointing out that at the time Drogba wasnt exactly "hot property". He had a very average goals to game ratio in an inferior league to the one we were in at the time. As for Adebayor, he was absolute pony in his first couple of years at Arsenal. A total headless chicken but became a better player due to the players around him. I dont think he would have improved at such a rate had he signed for Saints. Saha and Malbranque would have been great signings but as someone else said, when did we ever spend £6m on one player, let alone £12m for two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 18 April, 2011 Share Posted 18 April, 2011 Whole thing is something of a viscious circle for a club the size of Saints - Do you invest heavily in youth development as purchasing esatblished grade quality is beyond the budget (assuming you want to live within your means), only to eventually see teh grade A youth sold as 'bigger clubs'/agents offer a shorter path to success and bigger wages.... or do you try and bring in some expensive established players to encourgae the best kids to saty and buld success that way... we saw that work successfully under Lawrie in the 80s - combining experience and home developed talent - and I dare say its easy to say why not follow that model again.... the problem as many have pointe dout has been the premier league, the risches, agent and player power have changed the environment - that model so successfully applied by LM is simply not possible anymore as we cant afford the likes of a comparable Keegan, and the youth get blinded by untold riches at an earlier age at so called glamour clubs... sadly I dont think there is an answer anymore, as the big clubs like the current status quo as it means an end to the time when a Man U could ever be threatened with or even get relegated... tehy are even guarranteed a CL spot more or less and the additional revenue that comes from that... sad times, but the only real blame actually lies at teh feet of those armchair prem top 4 watchers who would ratehr watch Man U et al than support tehir local side, so feed the Sky schedules... the football fan who regually goes to support their local side is no longer the real value of the game.... But back on the point of the OP, I dont think saints are any different to any other club in terms of 'those that got away' - simply due to the was diffrent rates at which players mature, their own levels of patience for a start, and how their agents work/get thejm better deals at an ever younger age. For me, that last point is the worst - agents have ruined the value in developing young players as even if the club does not need to sell to keep their heads afloat as we have seen tradtionally with lower league clubs, the promise of riches and short cuts to success have spoilt the abilty for most to at least get 3 or 4 years out of their best talent and help them achieve moderate success as smaller clus used to in the past... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 18 April, 2011 Share Posted 18 April, 2011 Obviously players who came through our youth set up and we never played in the first team always crop up in my head Mathew Mills - good centre half at Reading, cost them £3mill Mike Williamson - Newcastle paid about £3mill for him and he is a prem player Brian Howard - good champ player, always gone for good money Matt Mills played a few times for the first team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huntingdon Posted 18 April, 2011 Share Posted 18 April, 2011 Does anyone know what happened to Sean Rudd? He was quite highly rated as a centre-back in our brilliant youth team, but after leaving Saints he disappeared Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torres Posted 18 April, 2011 Share Posted 18 April, 2011 Saha and Malbranque would have been great signings but as someone else said, when did we ever spend £6m on one player, let alone £12m for two. And as Lee Hoos (remember him) confirmed at the time he was talking Wilde up and Lowe down and had plenty of reason to stick the knife into Rupert - there was no way that Fulham (where he was at the time) would have sold the pair for that amount. Saha alone went for £12m when he left for Man Utd not much later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torres Posted 18 April, 2011 Share Posted 18 April, 2011 Does anyone know what happened to Sean Rudd? He was quite highly rated as a centre-back in our brilliant youth team, but after leaving Saints he disappeared Too slow and immobile to make it, imo. Although I would have said the same about Mike Williamson and Gary Monk, so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Diamond Posted 18 April, 2011 Share Posted 18 April, 2011 I was speaking to Peter Marinello a few weeks ago. He was a fantastically talented winger who in his own words '****ed it all up against the wall' and 'wrote the book on how not to do it'. He's living down in Bournemouth after he was made bankrupt about ten years ago. They called him the next George Best. Marinello actually turned us down in favour of a move to the Skates, who offered him a ridiculous amount of money. In hindsight he said he would probably have chosen Southampton but the money was a big factor as he was a bit of a playboy. The Skates at the time were being bankrolled by basically a crook. He got a massive signing on fee and a decent house in Southsea as part of his transfer. Marinello played against us in two derbies, I think one was a 1 - 1 draw at Fratton and then a 2 - 0 win (for us) at the Dell. He became good friends with Big Ron who was also playing for the fishy few. He said after every game, Ron would ask 'what was the Saints score?' and apparently was very, very bitter about being let go. He never really wanted to play for Portsmouth, it was again probably down to the money. Marinello said after a testimonial game at Fratton Park he sat down next to Ron at a dinner table but his feet hit something meaning he couldn't sit down properly - it was a sports bag containing Ron's signing on fee. Marinello also said Terry Paine was a dirty bastard to play against but a lovely bloke. Best of all though was what he said he remembered most about the Skates. Apparently, players stopped passing the ball to each other because they had it in for each other. Why did they have it in for each other? Because they were all ****ging each other's wives. Marinello said he knew one player (whose name he didn't want to mention) who would drive one of the younger members of the team to training each day so that he knew where he was and out of the way. Why? So he could go back to his house and shack up with his girlfriend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 18 April, 2011 Share Posted 18 April, 2011 And as Lee Hoos (remember him) confirmed at the time he was talking Wilde up and Lowe down and had plenty of reason to stick the knife into Rupert - there was no way that Fulham (where he was at the time) would have sold the pair for that amount. Saha alone went for £12m when he left for Man Utd not much later. But when has this site ever looked at those things objectively? ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tac-tics Posted 18 April, 2011 Share Posted 18 April, 2011 I want to know these: Patrice Tano Darren Broxton Jamie Hatch Feli Condesso Jay Lucas Adriadn Caceres?? and the nipper named Totti who I thought was Feli Condesso but apparently isnt! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guan 2.0 Posted 18 April, 2011 Share Posted 18 April, 2011 Gareth Southgate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lumuah Posted 18 April, 2011 Share Posted 18 April, 2011 I thought Drogba was going to join us, but couldn't get a work permit? Then along comes another premier league club with a higher profile, and it suddenly wasn't a problem. Or am I thinking of someone else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 19 April, 2011 Author Share Posted 19 April, 2011 Matt Mills played a few times for the first team. Matt Mills and Martin Crainie were superb in the centre when they were in the Academy, but could bridge the experience gap when faced with fighting for a place in our struggling Premiership side. Mills was (apparantly) very indebted to Steve Wigley (great trainer - poor manager) for his upbringing and left to go to Man.City after SW had moved there. Crainie always looked "competent" but seemed to lack the desire to succeed in a bigger club. Not sure where he is now.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 19 April, 2011 Author Share Posted 19 April, 2011 I thought Drogba was going to join us, but couldn't get a work permit? Then along comes another premier league club with a higher profile, and it suddenly wasn't a problem. Or am I thinking of someone else? You maybe be thinking of "someone else " as well as Drogba..? but I think we've had the problem a few times before. Seems Man.Utd and Chelsea never had problems signing players from countries where they had dubious international records and phoney passports.! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 19 April, 2011 Share Posted 19 April, 2011 You maybe be thinking of "someone else " as well as Drogba..? but I think we've had the problem a few times before. Seems Man.Utd and Chelsea never had problems signing players from countries where they had dubious international records and phoney passports.! That was Drogba, but Cheese signed him the following year after he had scored a shed load for Marseille in the League and Champions League... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super_Uwe Posted 19 April, 2011 Share Posted 19 April, 2011 Nathan Dyer. Has really come on leaps and bounds playing for Swansea. Not a Premier League star yet but he has all the attributes to go a long way. Shame it all ended on a sour note at Saints really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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