Winning games but playing badly

[Baj]

I think this could possibly be the first football related thread I've started...

 

Anyway, the few that have been moaning recently about winning games but playing badly. No I'm not going with the cliché of "that's what good teams do" or "it doesn't matter", but I do think some people on here need a wake up call as to what division we are currently in.

 

Yes, we are capable sometimes of putting in some very good performances (1st half v man united), but over the season there will be far more of our "normal" ability.

 

We're lucky that we have 1 or 2 players in the squad who could comfortably play a league or two higher, but of the rest of the squad, we are just a pretty good League One side... don't be surprised when we play League One football.

[View From The Top]

No, no, no. We must, must, play like Barca. Anything else is unacceptable. I know this because I have a coaching badge and know a CCC midfielder.

[Appy]

I hope this doesn't refer to yesterday, we did not play badly at all.

 

We played very well.

[Baj]

I hope this doesn't refer to yesterday, we did not play badly at all.

 

We played very well.

 

No it's not in reference to yesterday at all, it's just a theme I've noticed as a "lurker" of the main board recently

[Liquidshokk]

Are we expecting us to change most of our players if we go up then? If most of our players are only league one material then theres likely to be even more moaning about playing badly (yet hopefully still winning) if we go up.

[Barry the Badger]

I think part of the issue with this is Cortese and Adkins talking about "The Southampton Way" and short sharp passing football and suddenly people expect Arsenal-esque football rather than as close to that as you're likely to get in League One.

[hypochondriac]

I think this could possibly be the first football related thread I've started...

 

Anyway, the few that have been moaning recently about winning games but playing badly. No I'm not going with the cliché of "that's what good teams do" or "it doesn't matter", but I do think some people on here need a wake up call as to what division we are currently in.

 

Yes, we are capable sometimes of putting in some very good performances (1st half v man united), but over the season there will be far more of our "normal" ability.

 

We're lucky that we have 1 or 2 players in the squad who could comfortably play a league or two higher, but of the rest of the squad, we are just a pretty good League One side... don't be surprised when we play League One football.

 

So in your opinion will we need a load of new signings in the summer?

[shurlock]

Poyet contradicted himself yesterday-saying that individually, head-to-head we had the better players, as evidenced by the 5 players in the pfa team and then saying we were the daggers with lambert.

 

I agree with the larger point though- our central midfield is not good enough and we lack decent pace. Our attempts to strengthen those areas have largely been last minute fixes -loans etc- which will be exposed next year if we get promoted. Conceivably lambert and barnard may also struggle - and we probably need another CB. In all, maybe four players but that's no different from the transfer activity you see from other newly promoted teams.

 

At the same time, it's easy to overstate the difference in quality between L1 and CCC - just look at Norwich this year or Leicester the year before or Bristol and Hull before that. I think our current squad could easily finish mid-table in the CCC; but is way off a bunch of teams that has premiership experience oozing through them.

Edited 24 April, 2011 by shurlock

[S-Clarke]

I think we just have a knack of winning, we're not playing particularly badly at all. Our normal ability is above this level and the majority of this squad would compete in the level above without any issues. (We've loaned our reserve LB to the championship ffs!)

 

Over the last couple of months we've just been very professional and have often dominated the games we've been involved in. Alot of it is down to how people define a poor performance. Is it because we didn't score more than 5 against Rovers? Is it because we let in goals against Carlisle? etc.

[dubai_phil]

Poyet contradicted himself yesterday-saying that individually, head-to-head we had the better players, as evidenced by the 5 players in the pfa team and then saying we were the daggers with lambert.

 

I agree with the larger point though- our central midfield is not good enough and we lack decent pace. Our attempts to strengthen those areas have largely been last minute fixes -loans etc- which will be exposed next year if we get promoted. Conceivably lambert and barnard may also struggle - and we probably need another CB. In all, maybe four players but that's no different from the transfer activity you see from other newly promoted teams.

 

At the same time, it's easy to overstate the difference in quality between L1 and CCC - just look at Norwich this year or Leicester the year before or Bristol and Hull before that. I think our current squad could easily finish mid-table in the CCC; but is way off a bunch of teams that has premiership experience oozing through them.

 

We had a team that oozed PL expereince. Didn't help.

 

Our "pace" optins were strengthened with loans - because no pacey quality experienced footballers would want to join a L1 team, but in the NPC we are more likely to get PL loanees with those attributes so the loans are a GOOD thing

 

CM on it's day IS good enough. Schneiderlin has improved during the season. Chaplow showed what a break could do yesterday. We have 2 CB's coming through for next year.

 

We need strengthening but the core of the team is good enough for a top half finish PROVIDING we do not screw up pre season yet again

[paulwantsapint]

can we be more like man utd effective & winners than arsenal pretty but not no end product

[70's Mike]

everyone just needs to stay patient tomorrow, something which does not always happen when we have big crowds at SMS, the regulars need to remind the impatient ones we only need to win 1 nil

[dune]

I've made the point Boj is making a few times. It's horses for courses.

[Saint Garrett]

I think we just have a knack of winning, we're not playing particularly badly at all. Our normal ability is above this level and the majority of this squad would compete in the level above without any issues. (We've loaned our reserve LB to the championship ffs!)

 

Over the last couple of months we've just been very professional and have often dominated the games we've been involved in. Alot of it is down to how people define a poor performance. Is it because we didn't score more than 5 against Rovers? Is it because we let in goals against Carlisle? etc.

 

Chances next year that Mills will be our 1st choice LB ?

[Thedelldays]

Chances next year that Mills will be our 1st choice LB ?

 

none

[Saint_clark]

everyone just needs to stay patient tomorrow' date=' something which does not always happen when we have big crowds at SMS, the regulars need to remind the impatient ones we only need to win 1 nil[/quote']

 

I think the fanbase as a whole has been much better at staying patient this season than i've ever known them.

[dune]

I think the fanbase as a whole has been much better at staying patient this season than i've ever known them.

 

What do you think our away support now though?

 

In terms of numbers it's been brilliant, but in terms of vocal support i've never known it to be so poor.

[S-Clarke]

Chances next year that Mills will be our 1st choice LB ?

 

No chance, wouldn't have him in our team at the mo either.

[um pahars]

We're lucky that we have 1 or 2 players in the squad who could comfortably play a league or two higher, but of the rest of the squad, we are just a pretty good League One side... don't be surprised when we play League One football.

 

I think we have more than a couple of players who could play a League higher, we have 5 who their peers rate as the best in the division and as a team we are looking at being the second best team in this division (even allowing for some upheaval earlier in the season). I'd say that makes us a decent League One side, who hopefully in a couple of weeks will be a Championship side.

 

I think people are realistic in their expectations and have finally come round to the idea of being in a lower division, with that bringing a lower standard of play and player. We know we're not going to get Champagne football week in, week out. However, given the calibre of players, the general set up, the huge wage bill and having seen us at our best I don't see anything wrong with expecting the team to be, shall we say, more consistent.

 

For whatever reason (and injuries have played a large part), we have underperformed in a number of recent games. As you say, I accept that lower league teams may not be as consistent and graceful as those in the leagues above, but I go back to my starting point which is that we have the calibre of players that makes us slightly different to your average run of the mill third tier club.

[PokingFun]

I still find it a little surprising that people suggest we are winning yet not playing well. If that is the case then we have had a minor miracle since Feb where we have played 17 games, won 12, drawn 3 and lost two, scoring 32 and conceding 14. That is exceptionally good form and can only be achieved by playing well the majority of the time.

 

At times, all teams need to dig in to win a game (Man U v Everton is a good example recently and Man U do it all the time). My summary is that when we say we "did not play well" we actually mean that we didn't hammer our respective opponents and I think this attitude is borne out of us being the big spenders in the division.

 

Its interesting that Man U are widely considered as the best team in the country and have scored around two goals a game and conceded just under 1 goal per game this season so if you looks at Saints, the suggestion is that we are on the whole playing well in our respective division with our recent record (and had the added disadvantage of a lot of games in a short space of time plus injuries to key men to overcome).

 

Defensively we are very well set up (vital for success otherwise you end up like P'boro), we are strong in midfield, hence being able to overcome injuries, and up front we can score goals from many sources as has been evidenced recently. I suggest the reason we sometimes perceive that we are not playing well is down to the primary objective of being tough to beat first of all and then using superior ability and fitness to overcome other teams.

 

Winning games but playing badly is not correct, we are winning games consistently while oaccasionally playing badly and having flat spots in odd games. Very different indeed.

[david in sweden]

I think this could possibly be the first football related thread I've started...

Anyway, the few that have been moaning recently about winning games but playing badly. No I'm not going with the cliché of "that's what good teams do" or "it doesn't matter", but I do think some people on here need a wake up call as to what division we are currently in.

Yes, we are capable sometimes of putting in some very good performances (1st half v man united), but over the season there will be far more of our "normal" ability.

We're lucky that we have 1 or 2 players in the squad who could comfortably play a league or two higher, but of the rest of the squad, we are just a pretty good League One side... don't be surprised when we play League One football.

 

 

well nice to read you Baj (instead of you wrapping us on the knuckles for infringments of " the code of behaviour" )

----for what it's worth - I agree. The idea of playing " mediochre" football and yet still winning the points isn't unusual.. is it?,

but some fans seem to think we should play like Barca every week, even when Alex and Adam are out. But two things come to mind.

 

1) AP said last season that we needed good L1 players to get out of this divison..I think we've got those and hopefully - we will.

 

2) It has been recognised that many sides come to SMS intent on "battling it out..with 10 men back and not getting beat". The idea of playing "attractive football " goes to the bottom of the list. We have actually lost more home points that we should have (due to a number of reasons ) compared to other top teams in L1. The fact that we have won 10 away games - by hook or by crook - suggests that we have successfully adapted ourselves to varying styles of play, (as illustrated on saturday). I thought Gus Poyet was pathetic in saying we played the long ball..

(- Hey Gus ..get a life ! . Thats the way we beat your " unbeatable side " Is it our fault that your best side couldn't adapt to it ?)

 

3) though I agree that some of our squad wouldn't be regulars in CCC, I think they are fewer than some think, and some have made remarkable progress and are worthy of a higher level, though I can see two or three absolute requirements when we go up.

Edited 25 April, 2011 by david in sweden

[Fan The Flames]

Just what we need another thread telling fans how it is. Where are all these fans demanding Barca style play I haven't seen any on here or spoken to any. All I see is supportive fans giving an honest appraisal of the situation and some games this season we have played below the standard we can play and that happens to 99% of teams what ever division they are in. So it's not a characteristic of fans who can not come to terms with our lowly position but a characteristic of all fans the world over. At end of day it seems the vast majority of Saints fans are right behind the team and enjoying the season.