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Flag issue - New design needed!


JustMike

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It's not as simple as that though. I've just done a very quick 'n scruffy colour replace in Photoshop and you can see that it emphasises some of the wrong parts of his face:

 

markusred.png

 

Now if it was decided that this is definitely the way to go then I'm sure Scudamore wouldn't mind adjusting that ;)

 

One thing that I have noticed is that pretty much all of these have used fairly muted reds - slightly orange or pink in hue. The OS uses #d71921 (RGB - web designer remember :p) as its background colour and that's a stronger, slightly more Southampton-ish colour - to my eyes at least.

 

Par exemple:

 

markusdarker.png

 

markusreddarker.png

 

Just to give an idea of the colour difference you understand. Personally I like the design of him on the white but could understand if there were practicalities to consider if the flag was white.

 

As I said earlier, this could go round in an infinite number of circles. Might I suggest that we narrow this down to the current best design and 'perfect' just that one from there (in terms of font, copy and so on)?

 

What happens if you use the red background; but keep the white face from the original white background design (with white font)?

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can we not have the pic of Markus waving in this style...with "forever a saint" replacing their slogan

 

0EE9A93C-F614-9C8D-41BA7E48300BF0DB.jpg

 

Good shout, originally wanted to see what that idea looked like -post 49 has a decent image (captures the iconic wave without the rest of the detail e.g. the suit). Not bothered how the image is manipulated -could be given the che treatment a la scousers- but stick it in the middle with 'forever a saint' running along the top and it could work.

Edited by shurlock
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Good shout, originally wanted to see what that idea looked like -post 49 has a decent image (captures the iconic wave without the rest of the detail e.g. the suit). Not bothered how the image is manipulated -could be given the che treatment a la scousers- but stick it in the middle with 'forever a saint' running along the top and it could work.

 

yep, exactly.

Well as i said previously I have the high res pic of markus waving but dont know how to transform it into that style (liverpool one) so if anyone can do it, let me know

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What happens if you use the red background; but keep the white face from the original white background design (with white font)?

 

Erm, unless I've misunderstood what you've written, that's what I did :?

 

Can we get this narrowed down to a 2 or 3 bulletpoint brief? A designer's worst nightmare is working without explicit guidelines, then having their drafts criticised for missing the mark. I've been meaning to properly get to grips with Illustrator for a while now so I'm more than happy to give this a go if I clearly know what I'm aiming for.

 

Not to devalue anybody else's contribution of course. Probably just time I stopped talking and started scribbling :)

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Erm, unless I've misunderstood what you've written, that's what I did :?

 

Can we get this narrowed down to a 2 or 3 bulletpoint brief? A designer's worst nightmare is working without explicit guidelines, then having their drafts criticised for missing the mark. I've been meaning to properly get to grips with Illustrator for a while now so I'm more than happy to give this a go if I clearly know what I'm aiming for.

 

Not to devalue anybody else's contribution of course. Probably just time I stopped talking and started scribbling :)

 

Sorry I meant using the white face (filled in white) as it appears on the white background (the original example) but this time on the red background. Does that make sense?

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Sorry I meant using the white face (filled in white) as it appears on the white background (the original example) but this time on the red background. Does that make sense?

 

OK right, think I'm with you.

 

Literally all I did was take the white version of Markus' face from the red-on-white design and turn it red. No other alterations. The reason it looks like that is partly because of the way our eyes perceive colour/absense thereof, but also because there was a heavier emphasis on certain parts which worked against a white background but don't when placed on block colour.

 

As I said, it would take a few alterations to Scudamore's original vector image to make it sit correctly against a red BG.

 

If a concise brief is sorted before this evening I'll have a stab when I get home from work.

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This is for a flag, not a f*cking flyer. That one in the quote above will not look good as a big ass flag. Need to keep it simple and iconic.

 

This to me suggests a lack of understanding of marketing and promotions. The very essence of a flyer is that it is capable of grabbing attention immediately and it should also be visually attractive and pleasing.

Also, I do not see why, if the design looks good on the screen, why it shouldn't also look good as a flag viewed across the stadium. I agree that the message should be kept simple, but if the actual pictorial element is too simple, it begins to look both dull and Mouse Mouse. Which I'm afraid to say is how some of these images look, almost cartoon caricatures in their monochrome monotony. As I understand it, there is no additional cost for extra colours in the manufacture, so why not utilise the additional colours to make it look more pleasing on the eye, at the same time giving the impression that it not a cheapo flag. The image of Markus on Gecko's design is far and away the best one, the image iconic in the eyes of all Saints fans. It is only the design around it that needs tweaking a little IMO.

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OK right, think I'm with you.

 

Literally all I did was take the white version of Markus' face from the red-on-white design and turn it red. No other alterations. The reason it looks like that is partly because of the way our eyes perceive colour/absense thereof, but also because there was a heavier emphasis on certain parts which worked against a white background but don't when placed on block colour.

 

As I said, it would take a few alterations to Scudamore's original vector image to make it sit correctly against a red BG.

 

If a concise brief is sorted before this evening I'll have a stab when I get home from work.

 

you have a PM

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This to me suggests a lack of understanding of marketing and promotions. The very essence of a flyer is that it is capable of grabbing attention immediately and it should also be visually attractive and pleasing.

Also, I do not see why, if the design looks good on the screen, why it shouldn't also look good as a flag viewed across the stadium. I agree that the message should be kept simple, but if the actual pictorial element is too simple, it begins to look both dull and Mouse Mouse. Which I'm afraid to say is how some of these images look, almost cartoon caricatures in their monochrome monotony. As I understand it, there is no additional cost for extra colours in the manufacture, so why not utilise the additional colours to make it look more pleasing on the eye, at the same time giving the impression that it not a cheapo flag. The image of Markus on Gecko's design is far and away the best one, the image iconic in the eyes of all Saints fans. It is only the design around it that needs tweaking a little IMO.

 

So you start of by saying that you don't want the image to look cartoon like, then you go on to say that your prefered choice is the most cartoon like image?

 

No offence to gecko, it's a great bit of work, but I don't want us to have that sort of image on our tribute to him.

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Compare Gecko's design to the style used in the Liverpool examples and surely we can agree that it's getting closer now?

 

I second putting the text on one line. Although it'll lose some prominence, isn't it a sideline in terms of importance to the actual image anyway? Plus it'll allow 'Markus' to be bigger.

 

Mike has delivered a clear brief now in terms of what needs to be on the flag and where; we'd do well to stick with it or this'll never be sorted in time. Adjusting the typeface etc. (IF necessary) is a two second job once a clear winner is decided upon.

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Gekko's is definitely the best image so far. I'm not sure the size or style of font works exactly right, but it's nearly there. In any case, the image is all important and this is definitely the way it should be IMO.

 

yep, agree

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I know this is not a competition but am determined to get this right :)

 

markusnew.jpg

 

Best image by far. I'm not even sure it needs any words at all. Just that image alone is iconic enough to Saints fans. That image with a halo above to emphasise what a Saint and saviour he was to us.

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I don't like a halo - it's a bit OTT and the slogan covers it, I prefer the face (non-cartoony) to the waving pose which I think is a little bit cheesy, and I think a black image on the central area of a red-white-red flag with the "Forever A Saint" text in whichever colour means it can be read on each background is where I'd go with this.

 

The waving pic flag with slogan above is pretty good though. Surely the two-colour one is cheaper than a three-colour as well ?

 

PS Stick to conventional, solid lettering (the one above is perfect), that "distressed" effect looks gash and cheapens it as well.

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I know this is not a competition but am determined to get this right :)

 

markusnew.jpg

 

Game, set and match!

 

Well done everyone. We got there in the end. I can't wait to see it in the ground. I think the Liebherr family will be overwhelmed

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So you start of by saying that you don't want the image to look cartoon like, then you go on to say that your prefered choice is the most cartoon like image?

 

No offence to gecko, it's a great bit of work, but I don't want us to have that sort of image on our tribute to him.

 

No I didn't. If you read my comments again, I clearly stated that "Which I'm afraid to say is how some of these images look, almost cartoon caricatures in their monochrome monotony".

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I don't like a halo - it's a bit OTT and the slogan covers it, I prefer the face (non-cartoony) to the waving pose which I think is a little bit cheesy, and I think a black image on the central area of a red-white-red flag with the "Forever A Saint" text in whichever colour means it can be read on each background is where I'd go with this.

 

The waving pic flag with slogan above is pretty good though. Surely the two-colour one is cheaper than a three-colour as well ?

 

PS Stick to conventional, solid lettering (the one above is perfect), that "distressed" effect looks gash and cheapens it as well.

 

Some valid points but yet again we see the problem of taking everyone's opinion into account! You can't endlessly compromise or amend, amend, amend. Not to mention that what some think looks smart others will judge an abomination.

 

Personally I think it's best to stick to the precedent of clubs that have got it right. As has been said rather less diplomatically there's a fair few less accomplished efforts in this thread. If we're not going to pay a studio to design it (highly unlikely), we should at least make use of the pro designers here who are willing to work on this for nothing.

 

Quick, ask GeckoSaint for the vector of the top of those 3 options and close the thread ;)

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Options, options options!

 

markusnew6.png

 

 

markusnew5.png

 

 

markusnew7.png

 

Like the top one. Would have been great if some of the outline of the badge/crest showed up on the scarf - give it a bit more detail. And there was a bit of black like Crab Lungs original - would also protect it agaist the KFC jokes.

 

Whatever happens, drop the halo - its a red rag for ******takers and WUMs. think its better to keep 'forever a saint' on one line; otherwise it clogs the picture and the star of the show. WHat are the choices for fonts. Lots of people liked the slightly distressed look.

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Like the top one. Would have been great if some of the outline of the badge/crest showed up on the scarf - give it a bit more detail. And there was a bit of black like Crab Lungs original - would also protect it agaist the KFC jokes.

 

Whatever happens, drop the halo - its a red rag for ******takers and WUMs. think its better to keep 'forever a saint' on one line; otherwise it clogs the picture and the star of the show. WHat are the choices for fonts. Lots of people liked the slightly distressed look.

 

What he said. Of the plain red with words options, I like 1 best as well - shouldn't be a problem to have all the text on one line, but it might be better to use larger letters as with the two-liner.

 

At least the general colours, image and words are agreed, and well done to JustMike for going through all of this, hopefully it will look excellent.

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I give up.

 

Sorry, but undiplomatic or not....it looks crap/cheesey/KFCish & sorry Gecko if it's your profession, but none of them cut the mustard. We had it in post #123 IMO. But there you go.

 

I'm tempted to go on but it looks like a decision has already been made but I would ask each of you to show the 'winner' to one non Saints supporting football fan (ie impartial) and see what they have to say. Preferably one with an ounce of creative nouse upstairs.

 

I know I must seem like a right jumped up t wat to the majority but working in the field I do is all about making it look right and often means amendment after amendment until it's right, so forgive me if I'm a bit blunt as the delivery date looms.

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I give up.

 

Sorry, but undiplomatic or not....it looks crap/cheesey/KFCish & sorry Gecko if it's your profession, but none of them cut the mustard. We had it in post #123 IMO. But there you go.

 

I'm tempted to go on but it looks like a decision has already been made but I would ask each of you to show the 'winner' to one non Saints supporting football fan (ie impartial) and see what they have to say. Preferably one with an ounce of creative nouse upstairs.

 

I know I must seem like a right jumped up t wat to the majority but working in the field I do is all about making it look right and often means amendment after amendment until it's right, so forgive me if I'm a bit blunt as the delivery date looms.

 

it has been said that the image in #123 is KFC ish also.

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