The Dell=supporters----ST.Mary's=spectators

[AwaySaint1]

From a disgruntled Liverpool fan:

 

 

Anfield is our home. It always has been and always will be.

 

No matter what this new ground is going to be called, it'll still be built in Anfield, in the shadow of our shrine, but it'll never be Anfield. It could have the best facilities in world football, the greatest comfort available for football fans anywhere, with great sight-lines and superb facilities for hospitality. But it won't be a football ground. You only have to visit The Emirates to realise that.

 

Maybe I'm stuck in the dark ages and scared of moving on, but give me an Anfield, a Goodison Park or an Elland Road over an Emirates, a Wembley or a Riverside Stadium any day of the week. Proper football grounds with character. Stadiums that induce an atmosphere and allow passion and raw support to roll down from the stands. Homes designed to accommodate supporters, and not just spectators. The new grounds popping up around the country these days may have no obstructed views, lots of leg room and plenty of refreshment bars; but are they geared towards the traditional football supporter? The man that likes to stand with his friends, sing and support his side like decades gone by? Creating the atmosphere's that made English football the envy of the world? Not even close.

 

For me, things have gone way too far, with everything now geared towards those looking to sit and sample the atmosphere, rather than contribute to it. So what happens when the fans that used to create that atmosphere can no longer do so? How much of the attraction for the spectator then disappears? The English game and support is already a mere shadow of its former self. How much longer can the regression go on before the spectators replacing the supporters also start to turn their backs on the game?

 

Another striking point from the past decade or so; how many clubs that have moved into new stadiums have actually progressed as a club? How many clubs have been taken to the next level through building a new stadium? I'm struggling. The likes of Southampton and Coventry are now playing lower league football in half empty stadiums with not even half the atmosphere of The Dell or Highfield Road.

 

Ayesome Park and Roker Park used to have a brilliant atmosphere. They were proper football grounds. Just like the Victoria Ground at Stoke, and Maine Road in the middle of Moss Side. They all had character and were unique to the area and the club. They were home to each of those clubs and that in itself encouraged a different atmosphere from the sanitised version within all of their replacement bowls.

 

It's as if one company has the monopoly on new stadium design and construction. Each club come to them with an order, they update the previous design with different colour seats and sell it again. They must be making a fortune. Indentikit stadia popping up all over the country, with different colour seats the only way to tell them apart. I can't stand them, and it frightens the life out of me to imagine Liverpool having to play in a red version. Maybe a large version of The Riverside or Stadium of Light? Shudder.

 

Cardiff beat Leeds in the FA Cup a number of years ago, when Leeds were top of The Premiership and one of the best sides in Europe. They were intimidated by an electric atmosphere and beaten by a side of relative mediocrity. The intimidation factor did go beyond what some would deem as acceptable at the end of the game, but during those 90 minutes, it frightened the life out of those Leeds players. Could you imagine a repeat when Cardiff move to their new soulless bowl next year? Me neither.

 

I went to The Emirates for our first game at the new ground a few years ago, biting my lip and paying the £46. I had to go there at least the once didn't I? Never again.

 

Walking up to the ground it looks like a spaceship planted in the middle of north London. I felt like I was going to an NFL game, it just didn't have that football ground feel to it. On going up to my seat in the away end, I found a seat twice the size of one I'd seen in any other ground, and padded with leather. Leather seats in the away end; what's that all about? We stand all game anyway and never once use the seat provided, but since when have away enclosures had leather seats? I still can't get my head around that one. It's just not right. It's not football. Once again, everything geared towards fans turning up, sitting in comfort with a good view of the pitch, and going home afterwards after enjoying a pleasant game of "soccer". It's spectator heaven. A supporters nightmare.

 

The Arsenal home support has completely changed since their move from Highbury. Whereas they used to have a good few thousand in the Clock End next to the away fans that stood and sang, as well as pockets of others around the 38,000 capacity stadium, they're now all but diluted amongst a swarm of "new fans" at their new home. It's absolutely killed their support, who are now an army of fans that chant "who are ya" after every goal. Identikit fans. I feel sorry for the traditional support they have left that have been completely overwhelmed with the move. But as long as the club are making more money hey? The Emirates reminds me of our Anfield Road End. A sea of this new brigade that just attach themselves to one club, but all behave in exactly the same way. They dress the same, decked out in whatever garbage the club is selling that year and do exactly as they're told.

 

Look at last night; the place was half empty with a few minutes to go, when 4-2 up against their biggest rivals. Why would you leave early when winning in your derby? Surely anyone with an ounce of feeling for the club would be in there celebrating?

 

It frightens the life out of me when I imagine the new Anfield going the same way as The Emirates, or an expansion of the current Anfield Road End. The invasion of new fans taking over from the great unwashed that can no longer afford it has already diluted the current Anfield. Another 25,000 of these turning up over night gives me the shakes. When I hear the new ground being referred to has having superb sight-lines and allowing supporters to watch the game in the greatest comfort anywhere in world football I feel like throwing myself off a bridge. That's ok for the posh seats down the side where you can charge a premium to those that want them; but do the people running our clubs and designing these stadia really believe that's what supporters want behind the goal? If so, then welcome to the next step in the sanitisation of our once great game.

 

Look around Europe each week, and you will see fanatics behind each goal supporting their teams. A show of colour and noise from a group of fans that mirror what our grounds used to be like 20 years ago. They used to envy the support seen in grounds around England, whereas now they are laughing at us. Our game has become sanitised with the all-seater ruling, no standing, no swearing, and I'm half expecting a no singing rule to follow. The authorities in charge of our game want us to turn up, watch the game and go home, even designing the new stadia to suit their agenda. Playing music over the PA for fans to sing along to. Handing out scarves and flags for fans to wave. It's all so false, it's embarrassing, and it's also a telltale sign that things have already gone to far; that clubs have to go to these lengths to try and manufacture some sort of atmosphere. When will the penny finally drop and the real reasons for the decline in our atmosphere be addressed?

 

Expecting fans to pay an average of £40 a ticket week in week out, especially in the current financial climate, just cannot be sustained. More and more people are being priced out of the game, with the vast majority of those people being the ones that will contribute to the atmosphere. All of whom are being replaced by fans turning up expecting to be entertained. Only there's soon going to be nobody left to entertain them. Something has to give eventually.

 

The 45,000 that Anfield currently holds is more than enough. Do we really want to build a 70,000 seater stadium that will kill of our support, as well as kill of the club itself when it's half empty and not paying for itself? So much for the extra revenue it was supposed to deliver. There'll be no corporates wanting to be entertained if there's nothing left to entertain them.

 

Maybe I am stuck in the dark ages and trying to cling to something that's not actually there anymore? But I'll bet there's a good few thousand like me at every club around the country thinking the same way.

 

Well done in ruining our game.

[dubai_phil]

Thanks for posting that. Nothing else needs to be said by anyone, just as they say, read it and weep for what became of the Beautiful Game

[EastleighSoulBoy]

Thanks for posting that. Nothing else needs to be said by anyone, just as they say, read it and weep for what became of the Beautiful Game

 

Seconded, and we know he's absolutely spot on with his synopsis.

 

Prawn sandwich anyone?

[alehouseboys]

Well he's more or less said what most 40-plus-fans (maybe even 30s) have been saying/thinking for a long time, unfortunately the younger generations really aint gotta clue what we're on about. The only hope of saving the game in this country is to bring back safe standing areas, allow fans be a little more animated in those areas...oh, and charge a reasonable price for the privilege.

[obelisk]

How very, very true.

[lordswoodsaints]

im afraid proper football has had its day,it has now been taken over by the greedy corporations.the only thing missing from st marys is a full body disinfectant spray as you walk through the turnstiles.

football is dead,it has become boring watching it and i feel mugged.my only enjoyment is visiting the old style stadiums for a cup game or pre season friendly occasionally where you can stand,have a laugh and smell the atmosphere.

i did put my 'football depression' down to my age but im not so sure anymore.

football should be 3pm on a saturday afternoon,standing should be the majority option and fans should be allowed to safely interact with the visiting fans,anything else is just not football imo.

 

frankly,i miss being treated like sh1t.

Edited 1 November, 2008 by lordswoodsaints

[ivangolac]

Watching football at the old Dell holds many great memories but lets not kid ourselves ,the facilities were poor at best. The view from many seats was dreadful (back of the old east stand anyone) , huge queues to a tiny kiosk selling bovril and huge queues for disgusting toilets.

 

The atmosphere was great , particularly at night , but was it really any better than a full St Marys ?

 

The four victories against the Skates , Norwich 2005 , Derby play off game , and even last day last season compares favourably with any of the great atmospheres i witnessed at the Dell.

 

Stadiums have had to move forward it's just a shame the team haven't......

[OldNick]

I yearn for the game I used ot watch in the late 60's-70's when players were highly paid but within decency and they still had a connection.

Football didnt have the guts to stand up to the big 4 and I was all for cutting them adrift. They would have s### themselves as the European league is more froth rather than the blood and guts of the home league. So they called the leagues bluff and football gave in to them so they could have the milk and honey.(take all the home gate receipts)

Since that day they have become the untouchables. So the league would not have been so exciting without the big 4 but it soon would have and they would have come back caps in hand asking to be accepted and their claws would have been cut forever.

As for the stadia, no doubt a lot of people would like to go back to back to back terrace housing wioth a loo at the end of the garden.

[eelpie]

The choice of design for the St Mary's stadium was fallible from the outset. The distance of seating from the pitch (such a feature of Saints successes at The Dell) is too far from the action. The shallow raking of the stands has not helped acoustics nor atmosphere - all have distanced supporters from the game. From the very first matches this was evident, even with capacity crowds, yet these were the very same fans that filled The Dell.

 

 

For atmosphere St Mary's compares very badly with Reading's tumultous steeply raked stadium and also, I hate to admit it, the fortress caravan at Fratton.

 

So who was responsible for the choice of design? Surely someone must have pointed out the atmospheric deficiencies compared to The Dell, before the plans were accepted.

[lordswoodsaints]

I yearn for the game I used ot watch in the late 60's-70's when players were highly paid but within decency and they still had a connection.

Football didnt have the guts to stand up to the big 4 and I was all for cutting them adrift. They would have s### themselves as the European league is more froth rather than the blood and guts of the home league. So they called the leagues bluff and football gave in to them so they could have the milk and honey.(take all the home gate receipts)

Since that day they have become the untouchables. So the league would not have been so exciting without the big 4 but it soon would have and they would have come back caps in hand asking to be accepted and their claws would have been cut forever.

As for the stadia, no doubt a lot of people would like to go back to back to back terrace housing wioth a loo at the end of the garden.

 

i agree that the 'big 4' should have been allowed to cut loose,it would have been a big loss at the time but it would have been beneficial in the long run.perhaps they could have been replaced by celtic,rangers and a couple of others.i would have liked to have seen us compete with the supposed best teams in scotland.

greed has consumed the game.....greedy clubs,greedy players,greedy agents,greedy television.it is no longer a working mans game,the working man put the game where it is today and now he finds himself locked out.

[OldNick]

The choice of design for the St Mary's stadium was fallible from the outset. The distance of seating from the pitch (such a feature of Saints successes at The Dell) is too far from the action. The shallow raking of the stands has not helped acoustics nor atmosphere - all have distanced supporters from the game. From the very first matches this was evident, even with capacity crowds, yet these were the very same fans that filled The Dell.

 

 

For atmosphere St Mary's compares very badly with Reading's tumultous steeply raked stadium and also, I hate to admit it, the fortress caravan at Fratton.

 

So who was responsible for the choice of design? Surely someone must have pointed out the atmospheric deficiencies compared to The Dell, before the plans were accepted.

Eelpie, the stadium has by law to have the gap between the stands and pitch to allow emergency services through. For me SMS matched the Dell on a few occasions. Norwich home $-3 was electric and probably one of the most memeorable of my life, Pompey of course on 3 occasions. The newcastle game under Sturrock 3-3. I think it is down to the crucial games they were to get the fans up. I think we are forgetting the many dire games and atmospheres at the Dell at times. If every games atmosphere was fantastic none of the 'classoics' would stand out and so it is a case of time making it seem better.

[West End Saint]

Good post I to long for the days of the terrace when a goal was scored and the whole end surged forward and you would find your self a good few rows further forward going mental with people you didnt know Happy Happy days.

 

Whilst it wasnt all good in the late seventies and early eighties when I started going to Football I do miss proper grounds with proper fans.

 

UTS!

[OldNick]

i agree that the 'big 4' should have been allowed to cut loose,it would have been a big loss at the time but it would have been beneficial in the long run.perhaps they could have been replaced by celtic,rangers and a couple of others.i would have liked to have seen us compete with the supposed best teams in scotland.

greed has consumed the game.....greedy clubs,greedy players,greedy agents,greedy television.it is no longer a working mans game,the working man put the game where it is today and now he finds himself locked out.

I dont want to categorise it into class, it is the beautiful game for anyone who can admire it. The greed is all consuming I agree and I believe football is our heritage and it being taken from us by the money men and Sky. I am being hypocritical of course as I pay for Sky.

Anyone else remember the excitement of cup final day when you got up on the morning and switchedon the BBC in expectantcy as they were going to show the build up to 'a Live game'(before blanket live games on tv)

I didnt miss a final for decades, but in the last 20 years i dont think I ve watched more than 5

[benjii]

There is nothing inherently bad about these new grounds.

 

As someone above said, the atmosphere against Sheff U last season or during a Premiership sell-out easily compares with anything the Dell could rustle up. Twice as many people = twice as much noise (roughly, sort of!).

 

Character often comes from age. In 100 years time today's modern stadia will probably be viewed as quaint and haggard.

 

True, there is presently a lack of individuality in new grounds but that is partly because they are all new. The Dell didn't arrive with its character overnight. It developed organically. The Archers changed several times. The Milton changed (to hilarious effect). So too will the new stadia develop idiosyncracies and nuances over the years.

 

Even now, there are stadia being built which make SMS, Riverside etc. look like relics (Munich, Valencia...).

 

Every time I've been to Anfield it's been like a library anyway.

[John B]

Good post I to long for the days of the terrace when a goal was scored and the whole end surged forward and you would find your self a good few rows further forward going mental with people you didnt know Happy Happy days.

 

Whilst it wasnt all good in the late seventies and early eighties when I started going to Football I do miss proper grounds with proper fans.

 

UTS!

 

Yes totally agree

 

I am currently reading

 

Match of the Millennium: The Saints' 100 Most Memorable Matches

by Bob Brunskell

 

Brings back all the atmosphere of lots of matches I saw at the Dell and elsewhere lots of bad games I watched too but the good ones I will remember for ever.

 

Football is not what is was all money and moaning fans demanding success.

[John B]

i agree that the 'big 4' should have been allowed to cut loose,it would have been a big loss at the time but it would have been beneficial in the long run.perhaps they could have been replaced by celtic,rangers and a couple of others.i would have liked to have seen us compete with the supposed best teams in scotland.

greed has consumed the game.....greedy clubs,greedy players,greedy agents,greedy television.it is no longer a working mans game,the working man put the game where it is today and now he finds himself locked out.

 

Cricket I fear is going that way too

[Roman]

And yet they still queue up to get into the Emirates in a way that we can only dream of. My son, an Arsenal fan, was told that more than ten years of cadging as many tickets as he can to see about fifteen games a season, he's now officially on the ST waiting list.

 

His position in the queue is 33,425th. And his expected acceptance date is 2054.

 

The Emirates may be dull, quieter even than the Highbury library, but it'll never be empty.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

im afraid proper football has had its day,it has now been taken over by the greedy corporations.the only thing missing from st marys is a full body disinfectant spray as you walk through the turnstiles.

football is dead,it has become boring watching it and i feel mugged.my only enjoyment is visiting the old style stadiums for a cup game or pre season friendly occasionally where you can stand,have a laugh and smell the atmosphere.

i did put my 'football depression' down to my age but im not so sure anymore.

football should be 3pm on a saturday afternoon,standing should be the majority option and fans should be allowed to safely interact with the visiting fans,anything else is just not football imo.

 

frankly,i miss being treated like sh1t.

 

I like what you're saying, as to the last sentence?

 

We're still being treated like sh!t, it's just being done by a 'better class of person' (and my tongue is firmly planted in my cheek when I say that!)

[EastleighSoulBoy]

I dont want to categorise it into class, it is the beautiful game for anyone who can admire it. The greed is all consuming I agree and I believe football is our heritage and it being taken from us by the money men and Sky. I am being hypocritical of course as I pay for Sky.

Anyone else remember the excitement of cup final day when you got up on the morning and switchedon the BBC in expectantcy as they were going to show the build up to 'a Live game'(before blanket live games on tv)

I didnt miss a final for decades, but in the last 20 years i dont think I ve watched more than 5

 

Same here! Of those 5 I might have tuned into? At least 3 I was alseep well before half time!

[VectisSaint]

There is nothing inherently bad about these new grounds.

 

As someone above said, the atmosphere against Sheff U last season or during a Premiership sell-out easily compares with anything the Dell could rustle up. Twice as many people = twice as much noise (roughly, sort of!).

 

Every time I've been to Anfield it's been like a library anyway.

Sadly, as others have pointed out there are inherent problems with some of the new stadia. Twice as many people sadly does not mean twice as much noise, even roughly. Acoustics are so different and those at SMS are very poor. True there were some games at The Dell where the atmosphere was not great, I recall standing in the Archers when we were in Div 2 and enjoying the space to wander around when we were playing some non-descript team, but in general, and certainly in Div 1 (sorry kiddies that was the forerunner of the Prem, despite what the nice people from Sky would like you to think) the atmosphere was far superior to anything I have witnessed at SMS.

 

One of the inherent problems at SMS is only having half of one end for the main singing supporters (and now no Itchen corner either). Most clubs ensure that their most vocal supporters have one end to themselves, with the away supporters tucked away in the worst part of the stadium, but because of the design of ours the police insisted on the away supporters being in the Northam.

 

By the way are you sure you have been to Anfield and found it library-like? Were matches being played on the days you visited? One ground that in my opinion could never ever be described in those terms is Anfield. Highbury for sure, even Old Trafford when things are not going too well for the home team (i.e. when a homer ref has not been appointed), but Anfield, in the words of John McEnroe, you cannot be serious

 

I think as other posters have alluded to, younger supporters today have known little else and so think what they are experiencing is great atmosphere, I agree its difficult for them to do otherwise as they have no benchmark. But there is no doubt that modern stadia are atmosphere averse. Wembley is another very good case in point, modern expensive stadium with smaller capacity than old Wembley and atmosphere ruined by corporate boxes, empty seats and so on.

 

All that said, SMS is still light years ahead of the Dell in every other way, and at least when it first opened I was proud to be a Saints supporter, and take friends to games. Sadly with the dross now being served up that pride has evaporated, and I sneak down to SMS in disguise as Billy No Mates.

[voteforpedro]

Well he's more or less said what most 40-plus-fans (maybe even 30s) have been saying/thinking for a long time, unfortunately the younger generations really aint gotta clue what we're on about. The only hope of saving the game in this country is to bring back safe standing areas, allow fans be a little more animated in those areas...oh, and charge a reasonable price for the privilege.

 

I'm a good few years under 30 but I still know what you mean. The best atmospheres I've experienced at away games were at QPR and Cardiff, proper grounds and Bristol City wasn't too bad. The worst I've experienced were at Leicester, Coventry and the home support from Charlton was pretty bad.

The main reason I choose to go to an away game is for the atmosphere. It's shame there will be no Ninian Park next season.

[eelpie]

Eelpie, the stadium has by law to have the gap between the stands and pitch to allow emergency services through. For me SMS matched the Dell on a few occasions. Norwich home $-3 was electric and probably one of the most memeorable of my life, Pompey of course on 3 occasions. The newcastle game under Sturrock 3-3. I think it is down to the crucial games they were to get the fans up. I think we are forgetting the many dire games and atmospheres at the Dell at times. If every games atmosphere was fantastic none of the 'classoics' would stand out and so it is a case of time making it seem better.

 

I understand the point about the law, however notice that other grounds do not follow this. You surely cannot disagree the points made by me and others about poor acoustics and shallow raking of the seats. They are facts.

[benjii]

Sadly, as others have pointed out there are inherent problems with some of the new stadia. Twice as many people sadly does not mean twice as much noise, even roughly. Acoustics are so different and those at SMS are very poor. True there were some games at The Dell where the atmosphere was not great, I recall standing in the Archers when we were in Div 2 and enjoying the space to wander around when we were playing some non-descript team, but in general, and certainly in Div 1 (sorry kiddies that was the forerunner of the Prem, despite what the nice people from Sky would like you to think) the atmosphere was far superior to anything I have witnessed at SMS.

 

One of the inherent problems at SMS is only having half of one end for the main singing supporters (and now no Itchen corner either). Most clubs ensure that their most vocal supporters have one end to themselves, with the away supporters tucked away in the worst part of the stadium, but because of the design of ours the police insisted on the away supporters being in the Northam.

 

By the way are you sure you have been to Anfield and found it library-like? Were matches being played on the days you visited? One ground that in my opinion could never ever be described in those terms is Anfield. Highbury for sure, even Old Trafford when things are not going too well for the home team (i.e. when a homer ref has not been appointed), but Anfield, in the words of John McEnroe, you cannot be serious

 

I think as other posters have alluded to, younger supporters today have known little else and so think what they are experiencing is great atmosphere, I agree its difficult for them to do otherwise as they have no benchmark. But there is no doubt that modern stadia are atmosphere averse. Wembley is another very good case in point, modern expensive stadium with smaller capacity than old Wembley and atmosphere ruined by corporate boxes, empty seats and so on.

 

All that said, SMS is still light years ahead of the Dell in every other way, and at least when it first opened I was proud to be a Saints supporter, and take friends to games. Sadly with the dross now being served up that pride has evaporated, and I sneak down to SMS in disguise as Billy No Mates.

 

I actually agree with a fair amount of that. I was just trying to stir up some debate really! I do think there's a certain amount of rose-tinted nostalgia though. I remember matches at the Dell where a limp, flacid song would float impotently out of the bottom tier of the Milton to be lost forever on the thermal of forlorn hope, while the rest of the ground hunkered down in spectatorly order.

 

If we had continued in the same vein as under WGS I expect the atmosphere at SMS would be lauded.

 

(By the way, yes Anfield! No noise from anywhere - I've been there three times.)

[teamsaint]

well I was very sad to leave the Dell.

But the atmosphere, especially in the days before it was all covered and all seater was not always brilliant.....anyone recall the home game against Ipswich with 7000 attending?

Also , when even 2/3 full in the days of terraces, the views were terrible.I onlysaw half of the goals scored in countless games.

Also, there were in days gone past a lot of very dangerous terraces, certainly places where because of overcrowding etc I was concerned for my safety.

There are a LOT of downsides to modern football and stadia-- cost not least among them.

But if we had stayed at the Dell tickets would still be £25, and in the current situation, the atmosphere would still have been a bit ordinary.

A lot of things are wrong with modern football, but safe modern stadia are not the basic problem.

[1976_Child]

A very good article by the OP. Does Anfield really only hold 40,000? That shocks me! They make enough bloody noise for two Emirates.

 

As my forum name suggests, I was born in 1976 - just 8 days before we won the Cup in fact. I grew up between Germany and Southampton/New Milton/Isle of Wight. I was an army child. Amongst all the moving - I lived in 28 different houses in my first 18 years - one thing was always constant. Through out the 80s listening to 'final score' every Saturday afternoon at the end of Grandstand, while munching on hot toast and marmite, was one of the most romantic and happy moments of the week. Yes, I do mean romantic. For a young lad, as I was, to hear the results come in, spoken with that perfectly enunciated voice, was romantic. Where exactly was Leeds? Leyton Orient - that sounds far away! Liverpool - that meant Ian Rush (I, and millions of others idolised Rush). All these wonderful, mystical places have been forever etched in my mind and associated with football. I even (briefly, very briefly) lent my 10 year old support to Luton Town because it was from Luton airport that we army families were flown out to Germany every six months and therefore, to a ten year old, Luton was THE most exotic place in the whole wide world!

 

There was something about the 80s and football which I guess will never be recaptured. Frankly, the rioting can stay in the past – but even the rioting can be put in its historical context. Maggie versus the miners, loads-a-money city Essex-boys and football riots. All very much part of the 80s historical landscape. The original poster suggests that football has become sanitised. I would argue that the whole country – indeed our whole way of life – has become sanitised. Where is the massive upheaval in the country at the moment? The sort of football supporters passion of the 80s to which the OP refers was really born from the underlying events of the country as a whole. Maybe I am not articulating myself very well. Put it like this: for the last 16 years, until the other day, the country had been experiencing the most prolonged economic expansion ever. The standard of living of even the poorest in the country went up dramatically. With rising living standards the politicians don’t need to compete so hard for our votes. There is really nothing between the Tories, Labour and Libdems and there hasn’t been for the last 16 years. They are all the same. Politics has been sanitised. Society has been sanitised. There is no anger anymore. We are all just plodding along. And football has been sanitised as well. The soul-less stadia are more a result of complacent lives, easy credit and null-and-void politics than the architecture of the building itself.

 

Perhaps it will now all change. I believe that the country is in for some hard times. I think there will come an abrupt end to our cosy, complacent lives. I am an amateur historian; I read history books like they are going out of fashion and the one big constant throughout history is that the good times always come to a messy end. The country is on the brink. Real politics will re-emerge. People will be shocked out of their cosy credit-card existences and then we will see people congregate once more on football terraces up and down the land with passion and comradeship once more in their veins and in the voices.

 

Football is not just a sport. It is an expression of the national mood. And the mood is changing…

[krissyboy31]

Eelpie, the stadium has by law to have the gap between the stands and pitch to allow emergency services through.

 

 

We were fobbed off with this explanation when St Mary's was being built but it's patently not true. Many of the new stadia (Wigan, Hull, Reading, Donacter etc.) and practically all of the redeveloped stadia have nowhere near the gap between stands and pitch that we have. Stamford Bridge has hardly any more than the Dell used to.

[teamsaint]

A very good article by the OP. Does Anfield really only hold 40,000? That shocks me! They make enough bloody noise for two Emirates.

 

As my forum name suggests, I was born in 1976 - just 8 days before we won the Cup in fact. I grew up between Germany and Southampton/New Milton/Isle of Wight. I was an army child. Amongst all the moving - I lived in 28 different houses in my first 18 years - one thing was always constant. Through out the 80s listening to 'final score' every Saturday afternoon at the end of Grandstand, while munching on hot toast and marmite, was one of the most romantic and happy moments of the week. Yes, I do mean romantic. For a young lad, as I was, to hear the results come in, spoken with that perfectly enunciated voice, was romantic. Where exactly was Leeds? Leyton Orient - that sounds far away! Liverpool - that meant Ian Rush (I, and millions of others idolised Rush). All these wonderful, mystical places have been forever etched in my mind and associated with football. I even (briefly, very briefly) lent my 10 year old support to Luton Town because it was from Luton airport that we army families were flown out to Germany every six months and therefore, to a ten year old, Luton was THE most exotic place in the whole wide world!

 

There was something about the 80s and football which I guess will never be recaptured. Frankly, the rioting can stay in the past – but even the rioting can be put in its historical context. Maggie versus the miners, loads-a-money city Essex-boys and football riots. All very much part of the 80s historical landscape. The original poster suggests that football has become sanitised. I would argue that the whole country – indeed our whole way of life – has become sanitised. Where is the massive upheaval in the country at the moment? The sort of football supporters passion of the 80s to which the OP refers was really born from the underlying events of the country as a whole. Maybe I am not articulating myself very well. Put it like this: for the last 16 years, until the other day, the country had been experiencing the most prolonged economic expansion ever. The standard of living of even the poorest in the country went up dramatically. With rising living standards the politicians don’t need to compete so hard for our votes. There is really nothing between the Tories, Labour and Libdems and there hasn’t been for the last 16 years. They are all the same. Politics has been sanitised. Society has been sanitised. There is no anger anymore. We are all just plodding along. And football has been sanitised as well. The soul-less stadia are more a result of complacent lives, easy credit and null-and-void politics than the architecture of the building itself.

 

Perhaps it will now all change. I believe that the country is in for some hard times. I think there will come an abrupt end to our cosy, complacent lives. I am an amateur historian; I read history books like they are going out of fashion and the one big constant throughout history is that the good times always come to a messy end. The country is on the brink. Real politics will re-emerge. People will be shocked out of their cosy credit-card existences and then we will see people congregate once more on football terraces up and down the land with passion and comradeship once more in their veins and in the voices.

 

Football is not just a sport. It is an expression of the national mood. And the mood is changing…

 

 

all very interesting. However, if really bad times are ahead, and they may well be, I don't think that the expressions of discontent will come in the main from crowds gathered in football stands........its just too expensive, and you are too exposed to easy arrest.

The protests will come, if they do, on the streets fuelled by supermarket booze, I suspect.

 

Oh and another point, a lot of people live on credit cards because that is the only way they can afford a "lifestyle",(one pushed hard by the media and government), not because it is cosy.

 

Bu anyway, good post.

[mack rill]

Its not the grounds Its the type of supporter who now enter them,

Late 60s early 70s No DVD, No video, No satellite, No cheep outlets for booze,

only 3 channels to choose from on the new fangled colored TV, One game live a year FA cup, All that the working class,(we had) in the way of luxury was Fags and booze and it only cost half a dollar to get into the ground, our Place of worship where you let all your frustrations of the week go! There was no restrictions on Booze fags jumping up and down hurling abuse at the opposition fans and players, The atmosphere was tingling with the anticipation of hand bags with the away support, or Old Bill, How many on hear can remember when the whole ground Home and away supporters use to whistle the Laural and Hardy chooone When old Bill marched around the edge at half and full time. With the coming of fist all seater, movement restrictions no booze smoke free and by far the worst ridiculous fecking price The soul of the football ground has had its throat cut,

[West End Saint]

A very good article by the OP. Does Anfield really only hold 40,000? That shocks me! They make enough bloody noise for two Emirates.

 

As my forum name suggests, I was born in 1976 - just 8 days before we won the Cup in fact. I grew up between Germany and Southampton/New Milton/Isle of Wight. I was an army child. Amongst all the moving - I lived in 28 different houses in my first 18 years - one thing was always constant. Through out the 80s listening to 'final score' every Saturday afternoon at the end of Grandstand, while munching on hot toast and marmite, was one of the most romantic and happy moments of the week. Yes, I do mean romantic. For a young lad, as I was, to hear the results come in, spoken with that perfectly enunciated voice, was romantic. Where exactly was Leeds? Leyton Orient - that sounds far away! Liverpool - that meant Ian Rush (I, and millions of others idolised Rush). All these wonderful, mystical places have been forever etched in my mind and associated with football. I even (briefly, very briefly) lent my 10 year old support to Luton Town because it was from Luton airport that we army families were flown out to Germany every six months and therefore, to a ten year old, Luton was THE most exotic place in the whole wide world!

 

There was something about the 80s and football which I guess will never be recaptured. Frankly, the rioting can stay in the past – but even the rioting can be put in its historical context. Maggie versus the miners, loads-a-money city Essex-boys and football riots. All very much part of the 80s historical landscape. The original poster suggests that football has become sanitised. I would argue that the whole country – indeed our whole way of life – has become sanitised. Where is the massive upheaval in the country at the moment? The sort of football supporters passion of the 80s to which the OP refers was really born from the underlying events of the country as a whole. Maybe I am not articulating myself very well. Put it like this: for the last 16 years, until the other day, the country had been experiencing the most prolonged economic expansion ever. The standard of living of even the poorest in the country went up dramatically. With rising living standards the politicians don’t need to compete so hard for our votes. There is really nothing between the Tories, Labour and Libdems and there hasn’t been for the last 16 years. They are all the same. Politics has been sanitised. Society has been sanitised. There is no anger anymore. We are all just plodding along. And football has been sanitised as well. The soul-less stadia are more a result of complacent lives, easy credit and null-and-void politics than the architecture of the building itself.

 

Perhaps it will now all change. I believe that the country is in for some hard times. I think there will come an abrupt end to our cosy, complacent lives. I am an amateur historian; I read history books like they are going out of fashion and the one big constant throughout history is that the good times always come to a messy end. The country is on the brink. Real politics will re-emerge. People will be shocked out of their cosy credit-card existences and then we will see people congregate once more on football terraces up and down the land with passion and comradeship once more in their veins and in the voices.

 

Football is not just a sport. It is an expression of the national mood. And the mood is changing…

 

Have to agree the whole country has become a bit gray corporate and sanatised

 

Whilst you cant condone wide spread Football violence its not quite so tribal

anymore and things have gone far to PC and nicey nicey

 

Bring back some terraces and proper atmospher

[Thedelldays]

it has nothing to do with the stadium but the people in it...no one had a problem with SMS when we only lost two at home in one season (man u and liverpool)...not an uttering then?

[FloridaMarlin]

i agree that the 'big 4' should have been allowed to cut loose,it would have been a big loss at the time but it would have been beneficial in the long run.perhaps they could have been replaced by celtic,rangers and a couple of others.i would have liked to have seen us compete with the supposed best teams in scotland.

greed has consumed the game.....greedy clubs,greedy players,greedy agents,greedy television.it is no longer a working mans game,the working man put the game where it is today and now he finds himself locked out.

 

If the Big Four had been allowed to go that WOULD sealed the death of domestic football as we know it, or at least changed it beyond all recognition (even more so than now).

 

If they had gone, TV would have followed them, and with it ALL the money, so therefore no Prem.

 

Some might argue that might have left a better, more even playing field, but it would be a hollow competition. Imagine F1 without Lewis Hamilton and Massa and the Ferrari and Williams teams.

 

The prime strategy of 16 Prem clubs for the past five years has been to do everything they can to stop the Big Four leaving, and it might still happen.

 

I've rambled on here before about the spectre of a world league, funded by big tv money.

 

When the big Tv money first came in from Sky, all the old Division One clubs welcomed it as a means of pushing on, and the new generation of stadiums has largely been created on the back of big TV income.

 

But all it has done is create a monster. Like it or not, the Big Four are the only real attraction for TV, all the rest is just window dressing and filling for the main event.

 

Unfortunately, there is no way back to how it was, no matter how much we all hanker for the past.

 

Whatever happens, football is changed permanently.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

it has nothing to do with the stadium but the people in it...no one had a problem with SMS when we only lost two at home in one season (man u and liverpool)...not an uttering then?

 

A good point which reveals it's all a matter of perception. It reminds me of an old saying.

 

"Life is like a sh!t sandwich, the more money you got the less sh!t in the sandwich"

 

So when you have little or no money, and times are hard (like here at Southampton) then there ain't much difference between the bread and the sh!t. Which make the grass at the Dell that much greener!

[Griffo]

Pfft. We make a bloody good atmosphere at St Mary's. Easily in the top 3 in the league and one of the best in England, same with our away support, singing wise that is.

 

Itchen North was quality, and when attendances come back Itchen will be opened, and we will have an even better atmosphere back. I love the away days to places like Cardiff etc, But you can still make a lot of noise at places like Bristol City, Charlton, Palace.

[Fan The Flames]

We were fobbed off with this explanation when St Mary's was being built but it's patently not true. Many of the new stadia (Wigan, Hull, Reading, Donacter etc.) and practically all of the redeveloped stadia have nowhere near the gap between stands and pitch that we have. Stamford Bridge has hardly any more than the Dell used to.

 

I think its bull**** as well, what emergency vehicles are going to be driving inside a stadium. There are building regs about space approaching the stadium for fire engines, if and its a big if, a fire engine was allowed to enter the stadium it would drive over the pitch it wouldn't navigate itself around the pitch.

I suspect we bought an off the shelf design from Barr, (to keep costs down, which is not a bad thing) but as I have said elsewhere we should have tried to transfer the essence of The Dell to the new ground, closeness of seats and steeper stands.

Football clubs have always provided cheapish solutions to grounds that were more akin to warehouses than places of entertainment. This has continued today with bowl like stadiums, but clubs shouldn't be blamed for trying to progress in an efficient way. It seems like clubs can not win, the emirates is certainly not an identikit stadium but doesn't escape the criticism of the writer.

However new grounds are not the devil of football, it’s the money structure and the lack of standing. If new grounds had terracing and the ticket prices were not so sky high there would not be a problem.