ART Posted 29 May, 2012 Share Posted 29 May, 2012 (edited) "Robin Hood "Hollande, France's new President announced today the salaries of top management in the Public sector (EDF, SNCF etc..) were to be slashed. Salaries are not to exceed 20 % of a basic workers salary. Effective immediately This has sent shock waves through management and can only lead to resignations, moving overseas for many top managers. EDF's boss will see his salary cut by 70%. At the same time the minimum salaries of the lowest paid in France are to be increased as from July A smart move or financial suicide??? Can we expect an arrival of France's top managers into the UK job marketr Edited 29 May, 2012 by ART Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 29 May, 2012 Share Posted 29 May, 2012 I think it's a good idea for the public sector. If they don't like it they could always try working in the real world. We should do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedg Posted 29 May, 2012 Share Posted 29 May, 2012 Salaries are not to exceed 20 % of a basic workers salary. That is some cut!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Tone Posted 29 May, 2012 Share Posted 29 May, 2012 I think it's a good idea for the public sector. If they don't like it they could always try working in the real world. We should do the same. Quite right Dune . I tthink you should try working in the real world too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ART Posted 29 May, 2012 Author Share Posted 29 May, 2012 I am not a supporter of Hollande but have to hand it to him, he's leading. not only France by the whole of Europe by example. First move was to cut not only his own, but all his ministers salary by 30%. Now these latest measures and he's only been in power 2 weeks. Some while ago, someone posted on Twitter on how to resolve the European debt crisis by cutting salaries of top politicians. Does anyone have a link to that article> Be interested to see again the figures and suggestions. Wonder if the rest of Europe would follow this move and would it resolve some of the problem? In a way it's a modern day version of revaluing/devaluing the currency. Anyone agree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatch Posted 29 May, 2012 Share Posted 29 May, 2012 you would end up with only idiots working in the public sector. ..oh hang on..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 29 May, 2012 Share Posted 29 May, 2012 you would end up with only idiots working in the public sector. ..oh hang on..... Naughty... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 29 May, 2012 Share Posted 29 May, 2012 I think its a good bold move. The idea that you have to pay excessive wages to salaried staff otherwise they will move overseas was never true and has been thoroughly discredited now. Reducing the pay differential between 'workers ' and top management wont increase a companies overall wage bill but it will, besides making people believe in the 'system' more, will lift a lot of people out of benefits and into tax paying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamster Posted 29 May, 2012 Share Posted 29 May, 2012 What job market? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 29 May, 2012 Share Posted 29 May, 2012 A very bold move, one that can surely only work if other nations/employment chances for these individuals follow suit. There is no point cutting the money if the experienced people will simply clear off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 29 May, 2012 Share Posted 29 May, 2012 you would end up with only idiots working in the public sector. ..oh hang on..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 29 May, 2012 Share Posted 29 May, 2012 well, this i will be interesting to see the fall out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 29 May, 2012 Share Posted 29 May, 2012 Also, I don't for a second believe that the economics of cutting the top salaries will be able to balance the rise in basic pay.... I do however understand the message it gives to the nation as a whole... The fuzzy feeling isn't a substitute for economic tallying though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 29 May, 2012 Share Posted 29 May, 2012 you would end up with only idiots working in the public sector. ..oh hang on..... Quite right Dune . I think you should try working in the real world too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 29 May, 2012 Share Posted 29 May, 2012 (edited) Also, I don't for a second believe that the economics of cutting the top salaries will be able to balance the rise in basic pay.... I do however understand the message it gives to the nation as a whole... The fuzzy feeling isn't a substitute for economic tallying though. ??? you dont know how much will be cut from managers pay nor how much the national minimum wage will rise by. There is absolutely no basis for an informed judgment atm. Edited 29 May, 2012 by buctootim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 29 May, 2012 Share Posted 29 May, 2012 "Robin Hood "Hollande, France's new President announced today the salaries of top management in the Public sector (EDF, SNCF etc..) were to be slashed. Salaries are not to exceed 20 % of a basic workers salary. Effective immediately This has sent shock waves through management and can only lead to resignations, moving overseas for many top managers. EDF's boss will see his salary cut by 70%. At the same time the minimum salaries of the lowest paid in France are to be increased as from July A smart move or financial suicide??? Can we expect an arrival of France's top managers into the UK job marketr Great move, should be applied to the private sector too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clapham Saint Posted 29 May, 2012 Share Posted 29 May, 2012 When do the cuts take effect? How long have those taking an (up to) 70% cut got to sell their houses and pay back thier mortgages? Pay freezes or moderate cuts are one thing but upto 70%?!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 29 May, 2012 Share Posted 29 May, 2012 When do the cuts take effect? How long have those taking an (up to) 70% cut got to sell their houses and pay back thier mortgages? Pay freezes or moderate cuts are one thing but upto 70%?!?! Hopefully about 4 weeks, same as when a worker is told he isnt needed anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 29 May, 2012 Share Posted 29 May, 2012 ??? you dont know how much will be cut from managers pay nor how much the national minimum wage will rise by. There is absolutely no basis on which to base a judgment atm. Of course we don't know the exact figure. But taking the following example: 1 Managing director on £200,000 with 150 subordinates, average wage £20,000. Give the managing director a 50% wage cut and you save £100,000. Give the entire work force 5% wage wise and you incur a £150,000 cost.... You are £50,000... or two people, worse off per year. The equation would have to be very delicately handled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyo-Saint Posted 29 May, 2012 Share Posted 29 May, 2012 I believe Ben and Jerry's have a very similar policy in the private sector or at Least used to. They seem to be running a profitable international business that keeps growing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ART Posted 29 May, 2012 Author Share Posted 29 May, 2012 Just read that managers who refuse to accept the cut in salary are entitled to a redundancy package, which in turn could be quite high. Yet the government have just refused tonight a 400,000 euros package due to the ex President of Air France. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Saint Posted 30 May, 2012 Share Posted 30 May, 2012 I believe Ben and Jerry's have a very similar policy in the private sector or at Least used to. They seem to be running a profitable international business that keeps growing. That's because Ben and jerry, or who ever owes the company, have billions in stock. Don't worry about them, they won't lose out. There is going to be serious disruption to the management of these organisations as they find alternative work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsland Codger Posted 30 May, 2012 Share Posted 30 May, 2012 Should anyone from France decide to come to London, they will be moving to France's sixth biggest city http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18234930 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyo-Saint Posted 30 May, 2012 Share Posted 30 May, 2012 That's because Ben and jerry, or who ever owes the company, have billions in stock. Don't worry about them, they won't lose out. There is going to be serious disruption to the management of these organisations as they find alternative work I'm not disputing that, change is always pain, big change more so. What I am saying is that Ben and Jerry's have had this policy since day 1, they obviously have a talented staff from the ground up. Therefore the argument that talented people will work there (in this case the French) is flawed, at least on a mico example anyway. I personally think some people will leave to start with but after a few years, people will still want management positions, talented or not and French people will want to live in France. So the overall 'brain drain' effect will be short lived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ART Posted 30 May, 2012 Author Share Posted 30 May, 2012 Every year here in France, parents receive a Return to class Benefit in September. The government has just announced a 25% increase. Where are they going to find the funds for all this. Who's next for them to rob to fund such an increase. Can foresee an almighty financial crisis on the immediate horizon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 30 May, 2012 Share Posted 30 May, 2012 (edited) So does that now mean the french president can't earn more than 20% of what cleaning lady at his residence earns? How do you decide what a basic worker is? Were I work we have loads of different jobs earning different salaries with mangers over seeing people with lots of different skill sets god knows how you decide who was the basic worker. Edited 30 May, 2012 by doddisalegend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 30 May, 2012 Share Posted 30 May, 2012 Just read that managers who refuse to accept the cut in salary are entitled to a redundancy package, which in turn could be quite high. Yet the government have just refused tonight a 400,000 euros package due to the ex President of Air France. Hey Art, hope you are well (And got my message) I cant find anything about this online, Reuters have an article on Hollande from yesterday, but only mentions raising the minimum wage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ART Posted 30 May, 2012 Author Share Posted 30 May, 2012 Hey Art, hope you are well (And got my message) I cant find anything about this online, Reuters have an article on Hollande from yesterday, but only mentions raising the minimum wage. Doing okay despite being in the thick of my late May allergy season. How's about yourself? If you google the Air France's Pierre-Henri Gourgeon in English you'll get articles. A lot of what I'm posting is being taken from statements issued from the French PM's discussions with the Syndicats and Medef (Reps of Management) which will be applied immediately together with Hollande's appearance last night on the main news of France 2 TV. http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/05/29/uk-airfrance-ceo-idUKBRE84S1F720120529 Latest actions reveal that Hollande will remove all old cronies of Sarkozy, such as Police chiefs, judges, TV bosses right away. I believe it's not going to be long before we see Sarkozy arrested and up in court for a whole list of affairs. I'm astonished how fast Hollande is acting based on the state of affairs in France and Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ART Posted 30 May, 2012 Author Share Posted 30 May, 2012 Here we have an article in today's Guardian giving full information about the pay cuts of top managers Hollande to clamp down on fat cat pay France's president has vowed that the highest state salary must not be 20 times more than the pay of the lowliest worker Angelique Chrisafis in Paris guardian.co.uk, Wednesday 30 May 2012 19.05 BST Comments (50) French President Francois Hollande television interview, Paris, France - 29 May 2012 French president François Hollande has announced an immediate clampdown of executive pay at state-owned companies. Photograph: Rex Features France's new socialist government has announced an immediate, dramatic clampdown on fat-cat pay, promising to cap the salaries of chief executives at state-owned companies which could see top pay-packages slashed or halved. The president François Hollande vowed during the election campaign that in majority state-owned companies, the highest salary must not be 20 times more than the pay of the lowliest worker. The squeeze on state fat cats, expected to be enacted by decree next month, is part of the new government's quest for France to set a moral example in a crisis-hit Europe where top earners' stratospheric pay packages and benefits has exasperated workers and voters. The measure will sit alongside Hollande's promised new top tax rate of 75% on income over 1 million euros, which is extremely popular among the French public, and which he has described as an act of "patriotism" and "morality". Socialists brushed aside criticisms from the right that state pay-caps could make it difficult to recruit from private sector. The prime minister Jean-Marc Ayrault, aware of the unease at fat-cat excesses weeks before the parliament elections, took a hard line, announcing in an interview with the weekly L'Express that the executive pay-cuts would apply to those already in their posts rather than only new contracts. "I believe in the patriotism of company leaders. They can understand the crisis requires the political and financial elite to set an example". The president and cabinet have cut their own pay by 30%. The French state owns stakes in 52 companies, although only 23 are 100% state-owned, including the railway SNCF, the post office La Poste and various ports and airports. Companies where the state is a majority stake-holder, and which will be affected, include the energy giant EDF and nuclear power plant builder Areva, both currently expanding internationally including in Britain. Only companies controlled at more than 50% by the state will have to abide by pay changes. The state could also seek to pressure those where it has a minority stake, such as France Telecom, Air France and Renault, although there is no guarantee they must abide by government demands. One of the biggest hits could be taken by Henri Proglio, the chief executive of EDF, who currently earns around 1.55m euros, 64 times the lowest paid electrician. Proglio might have to take a 68% pay cut and see his package dip below 500,000 euros. According to the daily Liberation, the chief executive of the French post office could also lose 41% of his package. On over 600,000 euros, he currently earns 34 times the wage of the lowliest postal worker. Guillaume Pepy, head of the railways, SNCF, earns an estimated 250,000, around 15 times the lowest-paid rail workers, so would not face a cut. The finance minister Pierre Moscovici said a decree would be issued by cabinet within two weeks over the pay caps. But the state sought to send a clear message by announcing it would oppose a 400,000 euro indemnity payout to the former chief executive of the loss-making Air France, in which the state holds a 15.9% stake. "It's called decency in pay," said Arnaud Montebourg, the minister for Industrial Recovery. Louis Gallois, outgoing chief executive of the European defence group EADS, in which the French government has a minority stake, said there shouldn't be "tears" on the part of executives, but told Europe 1 radio, "I do recognise it's steep for some." He added: "For me, it's a crisis measure, like the 75% tax on remuneration over one million euros … These are measures that should be provisional, an expression of a crisis situation and necessarily solidarity." He said in general, companies should be given more flexibility on setting pay. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/may/30/hollande-france-clamp-down-fat-cat-pay?newsfeed=true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Saint Posted 31 May, 2012 Share Posted 31 May, 2012 Now having read the article, it's not that far reaching. 20x lowest paid employee would still mean £280k to £300k pa based upon the minimum wage in th Uk. Much different to th OP that said 20 % greater than lowest employee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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