I notice a distinct lack of anti Lowe threads

[Mole]

A lull before the storm perhaps?

[Amesbury Saint]

is there much more we can say about our visionary leader who has brought us total football, an exciting management team, motivated the fans to attend in record numbers, made us the envoy of the football league without doing a Leeds.

[The Farmer]

A lull before the storm perhaps?

 

The fight has been sucked out of us. With someone like Lowe you realise the fruitlessness of your toil to make a noise. We are the 'lunatic fringe' after all, to give in to people he sees beneath him would go against his inherent morals.

 

I gave up a long, long time ago, but I did my best. I feel aggrieved so many have just sat idle for so long and let it end up like it has.

 

Very sad for all Sotonians.

[Wopper]

Just wish he would say a few words and give us a laugh.

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

Saints are 15-2 with PaddyPower to win tommorrow...says it all really doesn't it?

[eurosaint]

Just wish he would say a few words and give us a laugh.

 

Two little words would be enough.

" I'm off "

[Topcat]

A lull before the storm perhaps?

 

I hope that you are right, however it maybe far far worse than that. To set this in context, with internal surveys of employees there is an end phase in employee morale which comes after the anger phase. It is the point where participation dramatically falls and the people are in a state of immobile catalepsy. They just do not care anymore. Death for that company is usually the next step.

 

The bad sign for us is the dramatic fall of about 50% in the non-ST Saints supporters since last season. When most people cease to care the organisation dies.

 

Lowe and Wilde may not understand this. Their business experience is not founded on the need to nurture and bring large groups of people (staff and customers) with them to win in the market place.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

I hope that you are right, however it maybe far far worse than that. To set this in context, with internal surveys of employees there is an end phase in employee morale which comes after the anger phase. It is the point where participation dramatically falls and the people are in a state of immobile catalepsy. They just do not care anymore. Death for that company is usually the next step.

 

The bad sign for us is the dramatic fall of about 50% in the non-ST Saints supporters since last season. When most people cease to care the organisation dies.

 

Lowe and Wilde may not understand this. Their business experience is not founded on the need to nurture and bring large groups of people (staff and customers) with them to win in the market place.

 

An insightful contribution Topcat , you should spend/waste more time on here .

[Wade Garrett]

I hope that you are right, however it maybe far far worse than that. To set this in context, with internal surveys of employees there is an end phase in employee morale which comes after the anger phase. It is the point where participation dramatically falls and the people are in a state of immobile catalepsy. They just do not care anymore. Death for that company is usually the next step.

 

100% how I feel now.

[saint1977]

I hope that you are right, however it maybe far far worse than that. To set this in context, with internal surveys of employees there is an end phase in employee morale which comes after the anger phase. It is the point where participation dramatically falls and the people are in a state of immobile catalepsy. They just do not care anymore. Death for that company is usually the next step.

 

The bad sign for us is the dramatic fall of about 50% in the non-ST Saints supporters since last season. When most people cease to care the organisation dies.

 

Lowe and Wilde may not understand this. Their business experience is not founded on the need to nurture and bring large groups of people (staff and customers) with them to win in the market place.

 

Spot on, I still go but just tend to watch the games quietly now and not really sing etc which is different for me as I've usually sat/stood in singing areas. I'd compare watching the side to visiting a sick relative that you once were close to but you don't really have anything in common with now.

[Snowballs2]

Because many of us feel that with Lowe / Wilde running things now, there is no hope, no future no clarity, we have become Apathetic and many of us have given up.

[Oz]

lowe out!

[um pahars]

I hope that you are right, however it maybe far far worse than that. To set this in context, with internal surveys of employees there is an end phase in employee morale which comes after the anger phase. It is the point where participation dramatically falls and the people are in a state of immobile catalepsy. They just do not care anymore. Death for that company is usually the next step.

 

The bad sign for us is the dramatic fall of about 50% in the non-ST Saints supporters since last season. When most people cease to care the organisation dies.

 

Lowe and Wilde may not understand this. Their business experience is not founded on the need to nurture and bring large groups of people (staff and customers) with them to win in the market place.

 

Their sole strategy for bringing people back throught the turnstiles is to get some wins under our belts.

 

They have no other means of convincing those who stay away to return, as they lack the ability to galvanise the supporters in any other way. They do not have the support, the belief or even thesympathy of the vast majority of the fans.

 

However, I doubt that all those who have been lost will return just because of a few wins, as like you I fear that for many the link between the team has been crudely broken in recent months.

 

Additionally, I'm not convinced that this team can string a couple of wins together on a regular basis, and that the situation on the pitch will get worse come January.

 

The current regime are not the future.

[saintstr1]

You can only beat your head against a brick wall for so long , After that the pain is worse than the original pain so you walk away and say END OFF !!

[Topcat]

CHAPEL END CHARLIE, thanks.

 

As to others views, it sadly look like we are entering the dangerous stage before our collapse. I hope that someone at Barclays with half a business brain cell makes a business decision that recovery is impossible under Rupert Lowe.

 

Spot on, I still go but just tend to watch the games quietly now and not really sing etc which is different for me as I've usually sat/stood in singing areas. I'd compare watching the side to visiting a sick relative that you once were close to but you don't really have anything in common with now.

Watching a sick relative dying IMHO.

 

Because many of us feel that with Lowe / Wilde running things now, there is no hope, no future no clarity, we have become Apathetic and many of us have given up.

Correct.

 

Their sole strategy for bringing people back through the turnstiles is to get some wins under our belts. They have no other means of convincing those who stay away to return, as they lack the ability to galvanise the supporters in any other way. They do not have the support, the belief or even the sympathy of the vast majority of the fans. However, I doubt that all those who have been lost will return just because of a few wins, as like you I fear that for many the link between the team has been crudely broken in recent months.... The current regime are not the future.

If only Barclays realised it.

I gave up a long, long time ago, but I did my best. I feel aggrieved so many have just sat idle for so long and let it end up like it has.

Yes you have from previous sites. Do not blame yourself, this was created by Lowe and his supporters.

[saintjay77]

Their sole strategy for bringing people back throught the turnstiles is to get some wins under our belts.

 

They have no other means of convincing those who stay away to return, as they lack the ability to galvanise the supporters in any other way. They do not have the support, the belief or even thesympathy of the vast majority of the fans.

 

However, I doubt that all those who have been lost will return just because of a few wins, as like you I fear that for many the link between the team has been crudely broken in recent months.

 

Additionally, I'm not convinced that this team can string a couple of wins together on a regular basis, and that the situation on the pitch will get worse come January.

 

The current regime are not the future.

 

Like UP says the only way for the current lot to get some support back will be if the team are doing well. Sell our best assetts in Jan and we are well and truly stuffed.

 

If by some miracle we were near the top and in with a shout of promotion come the end of the season the corners would be open and the stadium nearly full. But the loyalty is not there with the fans anymore so 1 slip up that may put us out of contention and the gates would half over night. Thats not a dig at the fans for being unloyal, the only way to get that loyalty back would be if someone else was in charge.

 

I cant help think that if we had someone other than the 3 pillocks but still had no money, this direction is still the right way to go. more money would mean a better blend but I think it would get enough support to keep the banks away without selling off the silver.

[John Smith]

I have a question(s). Seeing as Lowe demanded his return in order to protect his 'investment', what now? Or, is this how Lowe expected it to go? If it isn't, has he not failed? Again?

 

The following question may then be raised - when Lowe admits that this 'comeback' to save his 'investment' has failed, will he do the honorable thins a step down, without taking a golden handshake? Or will he remain ignorant all the way through to the point of administration, and then bail out, jump ship, run away, so that his name is not the one on the door, as a Chairman that took his Business into administration?

 

Sad, sad days being a Saints fan, my only solace is that Lowe is likely to die before I do.

[Sundance Beast]

What a depressing bunch of posts and despite someone erstwhile commentators and visionaries on here not one positive suggestion to suggest how the club may turn it's fortunes around. Just the usual synopsis of 'it won't change until Lowe leaves'. Really? And then what?

 

Stop wollowing in a morass of self-despair and actually put forwrad some practical solutions that you would do if it was you today sitting in Lowe's chair and faced with his predicament. Suicide is not an option!

 

Topcat is right about apathetic employees but what he doesn't mention is that the administrators will look to retain the services of the bright and enthusiastic employees and not those who simply sit back and accept their lot. Likewise they will also look at the clientbase and assess their enthusiasm for the companies product and if there is no market deemed big enough to support it.. well you can work it out for yourselves. No good flogging a dead horse.

 

United we stand divided we fall and positive action is required and by that I mean positively support the club not campaign for another unsatisfactory round of musical chairs in the boardroom from the known alternatives. Someone else comes to the fore then lets discuss their merits but until then support or shut up, it is your negativity that is bringing the rest down and making the situation worse.

[Sundance Beast]

I have a question(s). Seeing as Lowe demanded his return in order to protect his 'investment', what now? Or, is this how Lowe expected it to go? If it isn't, has he not failed? Again?

 

The following question may then be raised - when Lowe admits that this 'comeback' to save his 'investment' has failed, will he do the honorable thins a step down, without taking a golden handshake? Or will he remain ignorant all the way through to the point of administration, and then bail out, jump ship, run away, so that his name is not the one on the door, as a Chairman that took his Business into administration?

 

Sad, sad days being a Saints fan, my only solace is that Lowe is likely to die before I do.

 

John by your standards that comment is unacceptable and you can only hope of course you are right. Surely you don't believe old age isn't the only killer the depressing stories in the news this week about social services and changes to driving laws should tell you that you are silly to say things like this even if you were under 10 years old.

[aintforever]

The lack of any Lowe out movement is purely down to there not being an alternative, should one raise his head then the "anyone but Lowe" opinion will surely be the most popular again.

 

Of course "anyone but Lowe" could mean out of the frying pan into the fire but when your ass is being fried like a piece of bacon you might as well jump and try to miss the fire.

 

It's just one sad sad state of affairs, IMO admin is inevitable. There is not even a hint of a take over and our only hope is for Jan and co to do the business. A change of manager now could work but would be very risky.

 

We had one chance, and that was to get a good manager in during the summer and build a team who could punch above their weight and grind out enough points to stay in this league. We chose a crazy dutch total football experiment and just have to hope it works.

[um pahars]

What a depressing bunch of posts.

 

Because, sadly, we are in a rather depressing position. Some rather stupid decisions have been made once again, and the chickens are coming home to roost.

 

At SMS, those who do come are very upbeat, optimistic and very supportive of the team, but away from the ground, just like those who no longer go, the mood is more honest, realistic and ultimately rather drepressing.

 

We can of course always pretend everything is rosey, but you can't keep up a brave face indefinitely. It's tiring.

 

United we stand divided we fall .

 

And rather than blame the fans, maybe we should be looking more towards those who have created such a divide.

 

Maybe the solution would be to remove the reasons for the divisions, rather than trying to bridge a gaping canyon with some nice words.

 

it is your negativity that is bringing the rest down and making the situation worse.

 

The negativity is a response, a reaction, a sympton of the malaise that has engulfed the Club.

 

We need to understand that the apathy, reduced attendances and negativity are symptons of the mismanagement of thic Club, and certainly not the cause of it. Until we recognise this we will continue to look in the wrong place for a solution.

[Saint 76er]

Anyone reading through this thread would be under no illusion whatsoever as to the near terminal damage Rupert Lowe has wrought on SFC, this once much loved asset of a great city.

 

It really is like watching the last days of the Roman empire as a mighty institution falls despairingly into it's death throes. Nero stayed to the bitter end, but Lowe simply must not be allowed to if SFC is to survive against the odds.

 

Lowe has no business right to remain as his stewardship has seen a decline in the company's fortunes to rival Lehmann Bros in it's swift descent. Furthermore Lowe has no moral authority to continue to control an organisation that is an essential part of the local community fabric and wherein the overwhelming majority of that local community have rejected utterly both Lowe the business man and Lowe the person.

 

Now I realise Lowe may see football as a business, but even in this day and age I believe football club owners have a responsibility to the community their club serves and must make an effort to intergrate with that society. Any sane owner would want to do this anyway as they need the financial support of fans to maintain the business.

 

All of the above is IMHO, as is the fact that Lowe appears to be totally out of his depth as a football cub owner (well the 6% of it that he actually owns), his decision making has been a litany of disasters over several years until we find ourselves standing on the precipice we are today.

 

The Luvvies coming on this forum and blaming the fans will simply no longer do. Read this thread again to see the anguish and despair that Lowe has wrought on this club and it's community. The message has to get through that this man has to go once and for all and it does seem that the tide may at last be turning as this week MLT has spoken out and in today's echo well known Saints fan Chris Newman has opened his heart on the crisis engulfing his club.

 

Perhaps the winds of change really are blowing if the Echo are prepared to publish such heresy! However, I believe pressure must continue to be applied by whomever is able to do so, in order to create a tidal wave even Lowe cannot ignore, before it really is too late.

 

As to a replacement I can only go on rumours, but it does seem that Leon Crouch is keen to take it on again, only this time with help from well regarded business men and enough funds to avoid the threat of administration and the selling of our best players in January.

 

Quite frankly that seems like nirvana (not the rock band) compared to our current circumstances and would at least give us a fighting go at staying in this league. However, if any other groups with appropriate means are monitoring the situation then now would be a very good time to act....

 

Once again all IMHO

[saint1977]

Because, sadly, we are in a rather depressing position. Some rather stupid decisions have been made once again, and the chickens are coming home to roost.

 

At SMS, those who do come are very upbeat, optimistic and very supportive of the team, but away from the ground, just like those who no longer go, the mood is more honest, realistic and ultimately rather drepressing.

 

We can of course always pretend everything is rosey, but you can't keep up a brave face indefinitely. It's tiring.

 

 

 

And rather than blame the fans, maybe we should be looking more towards those who have created such a divide.

 

Maybe the solution would be to remove the reasons for the divisions, rather than trying to bridge a gaping canyon with some nice words.

 

 

 

The negativity is a response, a reaction, a sympton of the malaise that has engulfed the Club.

 

We need to understand that the apathy, reduced attendances and negativity are symptons of the mismanagement of thic Club, and certainly not the cause of it. Until we recognise this we will continue to look in the wrong place for a solution.

 

Spot on Um, Lowe's boys are now trying to blame the fans for running a business badly and making poor decisions on managers and coaching staff for the umpteenth time. The financial figures are going to make grim reading and may put a severe cloud under our ability to be a going concern. No amount of bluster will alter that.

[Gordon Mockles]

A lull before the storm perhaps?

 

I think we're all bored of reading them to be fair (re: anti-Lowe threads - they've been done to death). It’s almost unanimous, Lowe is disliked and has led us to the gates of oblivion but some objectivity seems to have now superseded the puerile animosity. It’s good to read.

 

Furthermore, I glanced through some of the more interesting threads this week (not so many on TSW after the mass exodus) and some people actually posted some astute, well reasoned & thoughtful (all be it lengthy - I can’t criticise in that respect! LOL), ripostes. Even Sundance passed a few reasonable, carefully considered comments (rather than persisting with his usual scornful, provocative tactics). Yes, “Reasonable" and "Sundance" in the same sentence. Who’d have thought?!

 

Without meaning to sound antagonistic, maybe the mantra has changed due to the harsh realisation that Lowe’s tenure, or our very club’s future, is at risk and the current strategy (both on the pitch & on the forum) is failing drastically. It must make you think, don’t antagonise, post some well reasoned comments and look at how well you can be received.

 

Who knows if it will be the lull before the storm, but we certainly need change. Let’s just hope we can have a change in management/ownership and/or tactics before it’s too late. That much must be realised. Even Matt Le Tiss feels obliged to comment on team affairs, which is unusual and adds another key name to the plethora of fans worried about our overtly risky reliance on kids. What makes a man is realising you’ve got it wrong, holding your hands up and admitting your mistakes, and caring/doing enough to rectify the failure.

Edited 21 November, 2008 by Gordon Mockles
Typo

[Saints67]

.... and the selling of our best players in January.

This has always interested me as to how a club stops a player from going? If an offer comes in they can reject it but only if they don't tell the player or he's got the worst agent in history. I believe no club has ever held on to a player against his wishes? My head is thick with cold so this may well indeed be clouding my thought process!

[Snowballs2]

I think we're all bored of reading them to be fair. It’s almost unanimous, Lowe is disliked and has led us to the gates of oblivion but some objectivity seems to have now superseded the puerile animosity. It’s good to read.

 

Furthermore, I glanced through some of the more interesting threads this week (not so many on TSW after the mass exodus) and some people actually posted some astute, well reasoned & thoughtful (all be it lengthy - I can’t criticise in that respect! LOL), ripostes. Even Sundance passed a few reasonable, carefully considered comments (rather than persisting with his usual scornful, provocative tactics). Yes, “Reasonable" and "Sundance" in the same sentence. Who’s have thought?!

 

Without meaning to sound antagonistic, maybe the mantra has changed due to the harsh realisation that Lowe’s tenure, or our very club’s future, is at risk and the current strategy (both on the pitch & on the forum) is failing drastically. It must make you think, don’t antagonise, post some well reasoned comments and look at how well you can be received.

 

Who knows if it will be the lull before the storm, but we certainly need change. Let’s just hope we can have a change in management/ownership and/or tactics before it’s too late. That much must be realised. Even Matt Le Tiss feels obliged to comment on team affairs, which is unusual and adds another key name to the plethora of fans worried about our overtly risky reliance on kids. What makes a man is realising you’ve got it wrong, holding your hands up and admitting your mistakes, and caring/doing enough to rectify the failure.

 

 

No the realisation is that we can do nothing, we will have to stand by and watch Lowe / Wilde annihilate our club because there is nothing that we can do to stop them.

Lowe will totally dismantle a club that took 100 years to build , in months

[saint1977]

This has always interested me as to how a club stops a player from going? If an offer comes in they can reject it but only if they don't tell the player or he's got the worst agent in history. I believe no club has ever held on to a player against his wishes? My head is thick with cold so this may well indeed be clouding my thought process!

 

If player wants to go, in essence, yes you are right. It's a question of the price you can haggle for, something Lowe used to be good at - example Dean Richards.

 

However, Lallana is a local (ish) lad and I've heard nowt about him or another local lad, Drew Surman wanting to go.

[saintjay77]

the fact that Lowe appears to be totally out of his depth as a football cub owner (well the 6% of it that he actually owns), his decision making has been a litany of disasters over several years until we find ourselves standing on the precipice we are today. I can see where your coming from on the above and what was before it but the decissions that have been made in the past have been made by the board. Lowe is the head figure and as such takes the flack but he didnt exactly put him self in that position. the shares are split accross enough people that could decide they want someone else and he can do bugger all about it. The club as a whole have made some bad decissions and we like to blame lowe. Lowe got ousted and the club continued to make bad decissions and somehow that turns out to be all Lowes fault too.

 

The Luvvies coming on this forum and blaming the fans will simply no longer do. Read this thread again to see the anguish and despair that Lowe has wrought on this club and it's community. The message has to get through that this man has to go once and for all and it does seem that the tide may at last be turning as this week MLT has spoken out and in today's echo well known Saints fan Chris Newman has opened his heart on the crisis engulfing his club. Im really getting fed up with this luvvie's blaming the fans BS. The people that you are claiming to be Luvvies are mearly stating the obvious in that the fans can do something about our financial state. All we have to do is turn up each week and fill the stadium and the banks will be happier and there will be less need to sell off our prized assets. It is something that we could do as fans but we are not for many reasons. Some of those reasons are Lowe and his bunch of merry men but there are many other reasons. Now with us not turning up the club will be under more pressure from the bank to come up with the readies and as such more player sales will probably happen to cover the money the bank want back. now thats not blaming the fans. thats just stating the obvious.

 

Perhaps the winds of change really are blowing if the Echo are prepared to publish such heresy! However, I believe pressure must continue to be applied by whomever is able to do so, in order to create a tidal wave even Lowe cannot ignore, before it really is too late. I think the Echo will publish a story if they can back it up. Its got nothing to do with saying pretty things to keep the club happy. Its about selling papers. If they could find a picture with Lowe and Wilde with there trousers down recieving pleasure from a club sandwidch then they would bloody print it. kthe problem is, the club and Lowe are actually trying to keep there heads down and are hoping that what team they have left can get some results that draw some of the crouds back in. if they cant show increased numbers by January then they may as well whistle for support from the banks and accept administration.

 

As to a replacement I can only go on rumours, but it does seem that Leon Crouch is keen to take it on again, only this time with help from well regarded business men and enough funds to avoid the threat of administration and the selling of our best players in January. Leon Crouch has been "keen" to be in charge for a long time and there have been rumours of financial backing from all sorts of poeple for just as long. But where is it? Why was it not there when Crouch was in charge? We have been days away from an official offer for weeks. If he does get back in them him or anyone that is supposed to be backing him wont put any money anywhere near the club unless the other shareholders will do the same. you wouldnt pay for home improvments to my house just for me to sell it at a better profit and walk away would you?

 

Quite frankly that seems like nirvana (not the rock band) compared to our current circumstances and would at least give us a fighting go at staying in this league. However, if any other groups with appropriate means are monitoring the situation then now would be a very good time to act.... if there is anyone watching at all then they will wait for us to go into complete administration and try to get us for next to nothing. who ever does this wont be anyone of note though as they will be the type of group that thinks owning a club with no players in league 1 is a step up from anything else they own.

 

Once again all IMHO

 

I appreicate that the above is your opinion and believe me I would very quickly jump into the anyone but Lowe camp should that anyone show enough interest. My point is that no-body has shown any interest and until someone does we as a club need to do what we can to at least keep our club alive and kicking. I hope the team can do well enough to attract some fans back in the door and that is also enough to convince the bank to hold off on taking what they want. if we can keep most of this team past January then I really do think the 2nd half of the season will be very interesting.

[saintjay77]

I think we're all bored of reading them to be fair. It’s almost unanimous, Lowe is disliked and has led us to the gates of oblivion but some objectivity seems to have now superseded the puerile animosity. It’s good to read.

 

Furthermore, I glanced through some of the more interesting threads this week (not so many on TSW after the mass exodus) and some people actually posted some astute, well reasoned & thoughtful (all be it lengthy - I can’t criticise in that respect! LOL), ripostes. Even Sundance passed a few reasonable, carefully considered comments (rather than persisting with his usual scornful, provocative tactics). Yes, “Reasonable" and "Sundance" in the same sentence. Who’s have thought?!

 

Without meaning to sound antagonistic, maybe the mantra has changed due to the harsh realisation that Lowe’s tenure, or our very club’s future, is at risk and the current strategy (both on the pitch & on the forum) is failing drastically. It must make you think, don’t antagonise, post some well reasoned comments and look at how well you can be received.

 

Who knows if it will be the lull before the storm, but we certainly need change. Let’s just hope we can have a change in management/ownership and/or tactics before it’s too late. That much must be realised. Even Matt Le Tiss feels obliged to comment on team affairs, which is unusual and adds another key name to the plethora of fans worried about our overtly risky reliance on kids. What makes a man is realising you’ve got it wrong, holding your hands up and admitting your mistakes, and caring/doing enough to rectify the failure.

 

Matt Le Tiss thought Pearson was a bad choice when he got appointed but his views were changed like the rest of us. Not saying that relying on the kids is a good thing but just trying to point out that Matt is a fan like us and is not emune to getting things wrong from time to time. Im sure if Matt were to dip into his pocket and pay for 1 or 2 more experienced players to help out the kids then the club would be very grateful. Silly statement I know but again im just pointing out that as a fan money is the only way we could acutually help out.

 

As for your last point, its probably the one thing that brings Lowe so much hate. We all know he has made some howlers in the past and we all know he is always in the middle of the conflict at our club. But he is the one person that acts like he is oblivious to it all as if he has done no wrong. Its too late i think for him to come out and own up as we all think he is a knob and want him gone no matter what.

[70's Mike]

Anyone reading through this thread would be under no illusion whatsoever as to the near terminal damage Rupert Lowe has wrought on SFC, this once much loved asset of a great city.

 

It really is like watching the last days of the Roman empire as a mighty institution falls despairingly into it's death throes. Nero stayed to the bitter end, but Lowe simply must not be allowed to if SFC is to survive against the odds.

 

Lowe has no business right to remain as his stewardship has seen a decline in the company's fortunes to rival Lehmann Bros in it's swift descent. Furthermore Lowe has no moral authority to continue to control an organisation that is an essential part of the local community fabric and wherein the overwhelming majority of that local community have rejected utterly both Lowe the business man and Lowe the person.

 

Now I realise Lowe may see football as a business, but even in this day and age I believe football club owners have a responsibility to the community their club serves and must make an effort to intergrate with that society. Any sane owner would want to do this anyway as they need the financial support of fans to maintain the business.

 

All of the above is IMHO, as is the fact that Lowe appears to be totally out of his depth as a football cub owner (well the 6% of it that he actually owns), his decision making has been a litany of disasters over several years until we find ourselves standing on the precipice we are today.

 

The Luvvies coming on this forum and blaming the fans will simply no longer do. Read this thread again to see the anguish and despair that Lowe has wrought on this club and it's community. The message has to get through that this man has to go once and for all and it does seem that the tide may at last be turning as this week MLT has spoken out and in today's echo well known Saints fan Chris Newman has opened his heart on the crisis engulfing his club.

 

Perhaps the winds of change really are blowing if the Echo are prepared to publish such heresy! However, I believe pressure must continue to be applied by whomever is able to do so, in order to create a tidal wave even Lowe cannot ignore, before it really is too late.

 

As to a replacement I can only go on rumours, but it does seem that Leon Crouch is keen to take it on again, only this time with help from well regarded business men and enough funds to avoid the threat of administration and the selling of our best players in January.

 

Quite frankly that seems like nirvana (not the rock band) compared to our current circumstances and would at least give us a fighting go at staying in this league. However, if any other groups with appropriate means are monitoring the situation then now would be a very good time to act....

 

Once again all IMHO

 

Went to school with Chris Newman, he was a year older than me , remember we were the only 2 kids who went to Leyton in 67.

 

Chris stopped going to games when Lowe returned, the hate runs deep and many try to play it down, without the likes of Chris SMS would never have happened.

[Sundance Beast]

3 posts a day I can't respond to every post but acknowledge everyone's thoughts nonetheless. Can we though ask ourselves if anyone could have halted the slide or done anything differently over the past 6 months with the banks literally tieing both hands behind the backs of every member of the board?

 

We talk about missed opportunities but we weren't in a position to gamble at the start of the season. There are not many bookies who will let you have a bet on the proviso you pay them after you know the result. Even if you bet on credit you only have 2-4 weeks to pay, not long for a new and experienced manager to prove himself.

 

The problem is we missed the opportunity when Lowe was removed from office 3 years ago and that is when the damage was done. He left and what really changed? We became a staging post for players looking for their swansong. If we have to have a target for abuse I honestly believe Lowe is not the one who should be in the line of fire and certainly not for his efforts in the past 6 months. No money, crushing debts and a disaster of a failed new dawn policy, what else could he have done?

 

Bottom line like last season its not over until the final whistle of the final game and I firmly believe if we all try and get behind the team improve our support we could go into the final game of the season safe and what a result that would be. Lets face it, Charlton and Watford are seriously in the dirty stuff and Forest and Doncaster apart from some good results last week still have a look of the S****horpe and Colchester's about them from last season so its once again a fight to avoid 22nd. Same situation as much of the past 30 odd years, just a different league don't you think?

 

United we stand, divided we fall. They are not empty words and in any event I genuinely believe that where there is hope and all that. Hope and a positive attitude married with an appropriate level of expection i.e. survival and avoid administration then some of those unlucky results already this season we can turn around in our favour going forward.

 

This air of negativity is sucking the life out of all of us and for what purpose. Did your coach never yell at you when you were 4 down playing in the freezing driving rain on some dogsh1t strewn council pitch, 'Comm'n Lads it's not OVER UNTIL it's OVER!' Lets have some hope and unity instead of dropping our heads like some disappointed and bedraggled schoolboys, COYRS!!!!!!

[TopGun]

Best post I've ever seen SB write!

[Saint 76er]

Went to school with Chris Newman, he was a year older than me , remember we were the only 2 kids who went to Leyton in 67.

 

Chris stopped going to games when Lowe returned, the hate runs deep and many try to play it down, without the likes of Chris SMS would never have happened.

 

Hi Mike,

 

Yes it's sad when people who have loved their involvement with Saints for so many years are so utterly appalled by those who have got their grubby hands on what IMO is really and truly a community asset, that they feel compelled to turn their back on such a big part of their life and simply walk away. This must tell anyone all they need to know about the standing of the current regime amongst even the most dedicated of fan. As a matter of interest did Chris have any active involvement in SMS coming about?

 

Now on to football matters... I presume you are referring to the promotion game at Leyton Orient, but I think that would have been 1965? I was only a young bloke then and couldn't get to the game that night, but can still remember a nerve wracking night by the radio in the attic of our home in East Cowes waiting for news of the game.

 

When the result came through and I knew we were up, well I knew then I would be a Saints fan forever. It was exciting times knowing that my (relatively) small club would be mixing it with the big boys!

 

I guess that's why I'm so upset about the ruination that Lowe has inflicted on my club as truly good people worked so hard for many years after that promotion to turn us from a small club into a stable and respected top flight outfit the envy of many... then along came Lowe.

 

You know 4 or 5 years ago I spoke to MLT at a function and actually thanked him to his face for keeping us in the Premier league, off his own boot so to speak. Matt was modest and insisted he had little to do with it (he's such a nice guy), but when I look back on that conversation now I could cry at what's happened to us since. Poor Matty must wonder if it was ever worth pulling on that boot in the first place...

[charliemiller]

Went to school with Chris Newman, he was a year older than me , remember we were the only 2 kids who went to Leyton in 67.

 

Chris stopped going to games when Lowe returned, the hate runs deep and many try to play it down, without the likes of Chris SMS would never have happened.

 

 

The Echo articule Chris Newman has written is exactly the type of thing that is making my blood boil currently.

 

How can any true saints fan say he would rather spend his money watching another team tham saints !!!!!!!

 

I am resentful in the same way he is for him pushing his negative doom and gloom down our throats and discouraging fans to attend.

 

Everyone has a right to choice , I totally totally accept that . But the consequences tied to the choices we make should be totally weighed up before we make them surely !!!!

 

Lowe is NOT the man for a future at Saints Neither is Crouch or Wilde , But to stay away because you dislike any of them more than you love your team is ridiculous in my opinion.

 

And

 

Dont tell me Eastleigh play better football than Saints .....******

 

And

 

Chris will be the first one moaning if Saints go bust. But every single NON attender hold a partial responsibility for that if it happens . And NON attenders that are verbal about it like Chris hold extra blame.

 

And yes Lowe ,Wilde ,Crouch ,Trant etc ...... are responsible as well .

 

There is no excuse not to attend home matches if you can afford it , if you cant then dont damage the club by passing negative stay away messages around .

 

Go and support pompey because you not really red and white anyway.

[Wopper]

Three cheers for Rupert.

[Fan The Flames]

A lull before the storm perhaps?

 

Because the intellectual battle has been won. Most 'anti-Lowe' stuff, for want of a better name is generally people myth busting, responding to the pro Lowe myths and pointing out the factual errors.

 

This is the best way to win this battle, support the team (don't give the prolowers any ammunition) and let everyone come round to the right way of thinking whilst tackling any myths and untruths as they appear.

 

I hope we are in the end game soon.

[Fan The Flames]

What a depressing bunch of posts and despite someone erstwhile commentators and visionaries on here not one positive suggestion to suggest how the club may turn it's fortunes around. Just the usual synopsis of 'it won't change until Lowe leaves'. Really? And then what?

 

Stop wollowing in a morass of self-despair and actually put forwrad some practical solutions that you would do if it was you today sitting in Lowe's chair and faced with his predicament. Suicide is not an option!

 

Topcat is right about apathetic employees but what he doesn't mention is that the administrators will look to retain the services of the bright and enthusiastic employees and not those who simply sit back and accept their lot. Likewise they will also look at the clientbase and assess their enthusiasm for the companies product and if there is no market deemed big enough to support it.. well you can work it out for yourselves. No good flogging a dead horse.

 

United we stand divided we fall and positive action is required and by that I mean positively support the club not campaign for another unsatisfactory round of musical chairs in the boardroom from the known alternatives.

 

Reading Sundance's post I get the impression that even he/she is now admitting that Lowe's tactics are wrong. Gone is the rabid fan baiting and fan blaming, the name calling and disproportionate Lowe loving. Replaced by a more sympathetic understanding of the situation, you could go as far as saying its a conciliatory uniting rally call.

 

But then comes the last sentence, never one to fail his audience or is it the last spasm of a tired and dying beast.

 

Someone else comes to the fore then lets discuss their merits but until then support or shut up, it is your negativity that is bringing the rest down and making the situation worse.

[ottery st mary]

I hope that you are right, however it maybe far far worse than that. To set this in context, with internal surveys of employees there is an end phase in employee morale which comes after the anger phase. It is the point where participation dramatically falls and the people are in a state of immobile catalepsy. They just do not care anymore. Death for that company is usually the next step.

 

The bad sign for us is the dramatic fall of about 50% in the non-ST Saints supporters since last season. When most people cease to care the organisation dies.

 

Lowe and Wilde may not understand this. Their business experience is not founded on the need to nurture and bring large groups of people (staff and customers) with them to win in the market place.

 

Words of wisdom.

You are a scholar.

They do not listen but bury their heads in the sand.

[Weston Super Saint]

What a depressing bunch of posts and despite someone erstwhile commentators and visionaries on here not one positive suggestion to suggest how the club may turn it's fortunes around. Just the usual synopsis of 'it won't change until Lowe leaves'. Really? And then what?

 

Stop wollowing in a morass of self-despair and actually put forwrad some practical solutions that you would do if it was you today sitting in Lowe's chair and faced with his predicament. Suicide is not an option!

 

Topcat is right about apathetic employees but what he doesn't mention is that the administrators will look to retain the services of the bright and enthusiastic employees and not those who simply sit back and accept their lot. Likewise they will also look at the clientbase and assess their enthusiasm for the companies product and if there is no market deemed big enough to support it.. well you can work it out for yourselves. No good flogging a dead horse.

 

United we stand divided we fall and positive action is required and by that I mean positively support the club not campaign for another unsatisfactory round of musical chairs in the boardroom from the known alternatives. Someone else comes to the fore then lets discuss their merits but until then support or shut up, it is your negativity that is bringing the rest down and making the situation worse.

 

By Jove I think he's got it!

 

The whole problem was caused by the fans after all : roll :

[70's Mike]

Hi Mike,

 

Yes it's sad when people who have loved their involvement with Saints for so many years are so utterly appalled by those who have got their grubby hands on what IMO is really and truly a community asset, that they feel compelled to turn their back on such a big part of their life and simply walk away. This must tell anyone all they need to know about the standing of the current regime amongst even the most dedicated of fan. As a matter of interest did Chris have any active involvement in SMS coming about?

 

Now on to football matters... I presume you are referring to the promotion game at Leyton Orient, but I think that would have been 1965? I was only a young bloke then and couldn't get to the game that night, but can still remember a nerve wracking night by the radio in the attic of our home in East Cowes waiting for news of the game.

 

When the result came through and I knew we were up, well I knew then I would be a Saints fan forever. It was exciting times knowing that my (relatively) small club would be mixing it with the big boys!

 

I guess that's why I'm so upset about the ruination that Lowe has inflicted on my club as truly good people worked so hard for many years after that promotion to turn us from a small club into a stable and respected top flight outfit the envy of many... then along came Lowe.

 

You know 4 or 5 years ago I spoke to MLT at a function and actually thanked him to his face for keeping us in the Premier league, off his own boot so to speak. Matt was modest and insisted he had little to do with it (he's such a nice guy), but when I look back on that conversation now I could cry at what's happened to us since. Poor Matty must wonder if it was ever worth pulling on that boot in the first place...

 

Age befuddles the brain

[saint1977]

The Echo articule Chris Newman has written is exactly the type of thing that is making my blood boil currently.

 

How can any true saints fan say he would rather spend his money watching another team tham saints !!!!!!!

 

I am resentful in the same way he is for him pushing his negative doom and gloom down our throats and discouraging fans to attend.

 

Everyone has a right to choice , I totally totally accept that . But the consequences tied to the choices we make should be totally weighed up before we make them surely !!!!

 

Lowe is NOT the man for a future at Saints Neither is Crouch or Wilde , But to stay away because you dislike any of them more than you love your team is ridiculous in my opinion.

 

And

 

Dont tell me Eastleigh play better football than Saints .....******

 

And

 

Chris will be the first one moaning if Saints go bust. But every single NON attender hold a partial responsibility for that if it happens . And NON attenders that are verbal about it like Chris hold extra blame.

 

And yes Lowe ,Wilde ,Crouch ,Trant etc ...... are responsible as well .

 

There is no excuse not to attend home matches if you can afford it , if you cant then dont damage the club by passing negative stay away messages around .

 

Go and support pompey because you not really red and white anyway.

 

I agree with some of the points in the top half of your e-mail but some of the points made lower down I'm not really sure about and you did let yourself down a bit with the Skate reference. If people are going to boycott, they will boycott as a clear vote of no confidence in Askham (he is still pulling far too many strings for my liking), Lowe and Wilde. I go to games still but I can't say with the exception of Brum home, Ipswich home and Norwich home that I've enjoyed them much. Even in the Norwich game we should have been 2-0 or 3-0 down before Robertson's gem. Besides which, I don't think that makes me a better fan than the stay-aways, in fact I'm probably encouraging Wilde and Lowe to hang on.

 

I say this as a fan of 25 years as well that has followed Saints around the UK but I just don't see a viable future even to January, let alone beyond the season end for this board and it's just a matter of time before Wilde and Lowe are put out of their misery and fingers crossed, potential buyers, the big-if being if there are any, will see a better last minute deal as SISU got with Coventry who were on their knees and minutes from administration. We could be picky at the time as SISU according to some fairly ITK posters on here offered us a less tasty deal and the 3 Amigos made their only joint stand. Now we are in the same situation and actually a bit worse. After all, you don't want to pay much for an insolvent business, regardless of the potential you see.

 

I just find it so sad that 90% of the posters and that includes you Charlie (not Lowe's PR plants) were probably united 10 years ago as we struggled to get a new ground built and got by on 15k gates. Saints fans were really united but only a total change at the top IMO could bring that back, the existing options are too discredited. Now, we are split into 2 factions and at each other's throats on this board. What a sad state of affairs.

[John D]

I was disappointed by the comments made by Chris (who I have never met although probably bought his book) especially as they were given such a wide airing.

 

Fair enough, he has chosen not to support Saints anymore that is his right as a fan and I do not criticise him for that.

 

What I struggle to understand is his conflicting comments on loyalty to a club.

 

Firstly he claims that fans still supporting Saints are zealots showing misguided loyalty.

 

But he then goes on to praise the support of Newport County and Wolves fans for the loyalty they show to their team - the very loyalty he criticises earlier in Saints fans.

 

Both these teams have suffered from mismanagement over the years although perhaps not directly comparable to our position

 

Bizarre or have i misunderstood his message

[WATERSIDEIFASAINT]

If I was Lowe I'd realise my time was up,the majority of fans were against me,my experiment had failed and spend night and day finding a buyer to get myself out the cra**er before I lost all my money!!

 

Of course Rupert and Michael are far too pig ignorant to admit this.This is why Saints are currently doomed and most fans are totally fed up and no longer attending.With Lowe,Wilde or Crouch at the helm Saints have no realistic decent future.We have more chance of being in the conference than returning to the premiership whilst they are still here !!Football clubs need hope and at present there is little of that at Saints

[Charlie Wayman]

I don't think anybody cares enough any more.

[Weston Super Saint]

I don't think anybody cares enough any more.

 

About what?

[Roman]

About what?

 

Time for 'ennui' to make its debut on Saintsweb.

 

And 'discombobulated'. That's a good sort of anti-Lowe word.

[St Marco]

I was disappointed by the comments made by Chris (who I have never met although probably bought his book) especially as they were given such a wide airing.

 

Fair enough, he has chosen not to support Saints anymore that is his right as a fan and I do not criticise him for that.

 

What I struggle to understand is his conflicting comments on loyalty to a club.

 

Firstly he claims that fans still supporting Saints are zealots showing misguided loyalty.

 

But he then goes on to praise the support of Newport County and Wolves fans for the loyalty they show to their team - the very loyalty he criticises earlier in Saints fans.

 

Both these teams have suffered from mismanagement over the years although perhaps not directly comparable to our position

 

Bizarre or have i misunderstood his message

 

I think his point is you are not supporting the name of the club you are supporting its beliefs. We have gone through a very recent change of having teams with great players with real quality to what we have now. I might be wrong but i think he is saying the identity of Southampton FC is now gone. Personally i agree with him, it is hard to look at the club and see the same club i have supported for so long. Some days i watch the games and think to myself "if only we had a Le Tissier, a Shearer, a Keegan etc.. someone who can produce a bit of magic". We have nobody like that anymore. We have nobody even near that level anymore. So i agree with what he says, the club has changed so much and has fallen so far that the people who are responsible are still here and still doing it. The club needs a breath of fresh air. A reason to fall in love with it again.

[Weston Super Saint]

Time for 'ennui' to make its debut on Saintsweb.

 

And 'discombobulated'. That's a good sort of anti-Lowe word.

 

Very much under utilised.

[Fowllyd]

How many times, and in how many ways, can one say the words "Lowe out" or "Rupert is a tw*t"? However many it is, I can't see enough material there for one thread, let alone lots of them. If there's something new to be said, fair enough; if not, what's the point?

 

Of course, it would be possible to fill the forum with thread after thread all about how nasty Lowe is, and all saying the same thing. But then I think that's been tried before, on another forum - can anyone remind me how that turned out?

[Wes Tender]

Charlie Miller:

Chris will be the first one moaning if Saints go bust. But every single NON attender hold a partial responsibility for that if it happens . And NON attenders that are verbal about it like Chris hold extra blame.....

 

Go and support pompey because you not really red and white anyway.

 

Don't you realise the ironic contradiction here, on two levels actually?

 

Firstly by telling him that he and people like him should be attending or else they will force the club into administration and in the next breath telling him to go and support the skates.

 

Secondly by stating that he would be the first to moan if we went bust, which would be a nonsense if he were a Skate fan, as then he would surely be rejoicing at our demise.

 

I know Chris and he is Saints through and through. When the club causes people like him to give up seeing Saints play, it is indicative that the troubles are extremely serious. I'm getting pretty close to that position too. Almost time for somebody to tell me to go and watch the Skates too because I'm obviously not a Saints fan either.