Japan urges UK to stay in the EU

[TopGun]

Japan says the UK is the gateway to Europe and to leave the EU would be detrimental to Japanese investment in the UK which would cost jobs in this country. I bet that's beyond the understanding of UKIP.

 

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23393856

[Batman]

ok.

[Jonnyboy]

ok.

 

Fantastic contribution, you'll have more posts than that idiot dell days soon.

[solentstars]

Japan says the UK is the gateway to Europe and to leave the EU would be detrimental to Japanese investment in the UK which would cost jobs in this country. I bet that's beyond the understanding of UKIP.

 

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23393856

 

No surprise that's the real world and we can kiss goodbye to all our car manufacturers if that ever happened.

 

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

[Saintandy666]

If we want to stay competitive in the modern world, alongside the US and China and so on, we have to stay in the EU. This is just one more piece of evidence showing how vital it is to our economy.

[Hockey_saint]

In the end, no matter what Japan says, it's a democratic right of the people of the UK to have a say as to such massive changes to their country such as mass migration, binding laws created by un elected foreigners and they've been treated like mugs for so long by both parties, no matter if it is a yes or no, as a democratic country we need the right to choose and if we vote either way it should have nothing to do with other countries.

 

Besides which, even if it was a no, the EU would either disregard it or make us take it again until we come up with the "correct" answer like they've done before.

[Lord Duckhunter]

We should always listen to Japan , particularly the car industry.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/nissan-urges-britain-to-join-the-euro-1115176.html

[Barry Sanchez]

Says the Nation that has the harshest immigration policy on the planet.......................

[Tokyo-Saint]

That's simply not true Barry. After all, they let me in.

[Wes Tender]

If we want to stay competitive in the modern world, alongside the US and China and so on, we have to stay in the EU. This is just one more piece of evidence showing how vital it is to our economy.

The US and China aren't in the EU. Ought they to join too, for fear of becoming uncompetitive?

 

Will the Japanese all of a sudden not want to sell their Cars and electronic goods to us if we left?

 

Why would we become uncompetitive anyway if we left? The Japanese expressing an opinion does not constitute evidence, as that would infer that they had to irrefutably correct, which they aren't.

[TopGun]

The US and China aren't in the EU. Ought they to join too, for fear of becoming uncompetitive?

 

Will the Japanese all of a sudden not want to sell their Cars and electronic goods to us if we left?

 

Why would we become uncompetitive anyway if we left? The Japanese expressing an opinion does not constitute evidence, as that would infer that they had to irrefutably correct, which they aren't.

 

I assume that they believe that trade barriers could be put in place if the UK left the EU.

[doubleonothing]

At the end of the day we signed up to the common market on the basis of it being a "trade deal". No-one in this country voted for everything else the EU now does.

 

By pulling out of the EU and reverting to a trade arrangement we won't penalise ourselves on the basis that the EU trades more with us than we do with them. They therefore won't shoot themselves in the foot.

 

The problem comes when politicians realise that by pulling out they won't be able to get their nice retirement job as a MEP.

[Wes Tender]

I assume that they believe that trade barriers could be put in place if the UK left the EU.

 

Doubleonothing has saved me responding, as that is the point I would have made. The EU placing trade barriers on our goods would be totally counter productive and their manufacturers simply wouldn't allow it.

[Whitey Grandad]

At the end of the day we signed up to the common market on the basis of it being a "trade deal". No-one in this country voted for everything else the EU now does.

 

By pulling out of the EU and reverting to a trade arrangement we won't penalise ourselves on the basis that the EU trades more with us than we do with them. They therefore won't shoot themselves in the foot.

 

The problem comes when politicians realise that by pulling out they won't be able to get their nice retirement job as a MEP.

 

Sending goods outside the EU is a right pain in the bottom.

[Viking Warrior]

based on the japanese comments. should we not tell the Japanese government we are not going to import or sell any more of your cars and goods etc unless you stop whale and dolphin fishing

 

After all they used a large amount of the money the US gave them after the earthquake and tsunami to help maintain their whaling industry

In December 2011, The Japanese government confirmed that US$29 million out of their supplementary post-earthquake and tsunami reconstruction budget was spent to provide extra security to ensure the "stable operation" of the Japanese whaling fleet

[CB Saint]

If we want to stay competitive in the modern world, alongside the US and China and so on, we have to stay in the EU. This is just one more piece of evidence showing how vital it is to our economy.

 

No, it is evidence that is is in the Japanese National interest that we remain in the EU. That doesn't neccessarily mean it is in ours.

 

This issue is a bit like the austerity issue, ie both sides argue furiously about an assumed outcome that they have no idea will come to pass.

[TopGun]

I expect that Japan is saying: "Why should we take a risk on the UK remaining as our trade gateway to Europe if the UK might pull out? We may as well relocate our investment and transitional businesses to another port country such as the Netherlands."

[Wes Tender]

I expect that Japan is saying: "Why should we take a risk on the UK remaining as our trade gateway to Europe if the UK might pull out? We may as well relocate our investment and transitional businesses to another port country such as the Netherlands."

 

I suspect that a lot of the sales of Japanese cars into the European market are to the UK, based on them being made here. If they wish to risk losing a large percentage of that market, then that's up to them. Perhaps the UK government would take the opportunity if the Japanese manufacturers pulled out to re-establish a British volume car maker once more in one of their plants.

[Tokyo-Saint]

The Rover's return Wes?

[Saintandy666]

The US and China aren't in the EU. Ought they to join too, for fear of becoming uncompetitive?

 

Will the Japanese all of a sudden not want to sell their Cars and electronic goods to us if we left?

 

Why would we become uncompetitive anyway if we left? The Japanese expressing an opinion does not constitute evidence, as that would infer that they had to irrefutably correct, which they aren't.

 

China and the US are in different spheres of the world economy.

[Verbal]

I suspect that a lot of the sales of Japanese cars into the European market are to the UK, based on them being made here. If they wish to risk losing a large percentage of that market, then that's up to them. Perhaps the UK government would take the opportunity if the Japanese manufacturers pulled out to re-establish a British volume car maker once more in one of their plants.

 

You've got the wrong end of the stick. The Japanese aren't talking about their concern about selling cars here - they'll sell cars to anyone (and to anyone in he UK with a higher price tag). They're talking about their investments here in motor and other manufacturing. The reason they invested here was driven (so to speak) by the UK's position within the EU. Nissan doesn't want to make cars here and then find they suddenly have to leap over trade barriers to sell their UK-manufactured cars in Europe. They will simply move production to Europe. End of story.

 

And for a supposedly arch-capitalist your proposal for British Leyland Mk 2, with a "government-established" volume car company, is quite bizarre. Never going to to happen.

 

The Japanese intervention is not even the first of its kind. The Americans did the same a couple of months ago when they said that they would not consider including Britain in the proposed bilateral trade convention with the EU if it voted to leave.

 

Let's get real here. For all the wishful thinking of the little englanders, the way this is going to go down is as follows: at the beginning of the referendum campaign, polls will show a substantial majority in favour of pulling out. As the campaign progresses, more and more alarming (and some alarmist) stories will be spooled out, so that the pros - which include Cameron - ensure a comfortable victory.

 

In the meantime, large foreign investors, nervous of the outcome, will withhold major investment decisions until there is some degree of certainty. This is will damage the British economy.

 

The anti-campaign is focused on the wrong thing. What we should be doing is democratising European institutions not raising the drawbridge on the real world.

[TopGun]

You've got the wrong end of the stick. The Japanese aren't talking about their concern about selling cars here - they'll sell cars to anyone (and to anyone in he UK with a higher price tag). They're talking about their investments here in motor and other manufacturing. The reason they invested here was driven (so to speak) by the UK's position within the EU. Nissan doesn't want to make cars here and then find they suddenly have to leap over trade barriers to sell their UK-manufactured cars in Europe. They will simply move production to Europe. End of story.

 

And for a supposedly arch-capitalist your proposal for British Leyland Mk 2, with a "government-established" volume car company, is quite bizarre. Never going to to happen.

 

The Japanese intervention is not even the first of its kind. The Americans did the same a couple of months ago when they said that they would not consider including Britain in the proposed bilateral trade convention with the EU if it voted to leave.

 

Let's get real here. For all the wishful thinking of the little englanders, the way this is going to go down is as follows: at the beginning of the referendum campaign, polls will show a substantial majority in favour of pulling out. As the campaign progresses, more and more alarming (and some alarmist) stories will be spooled out, so that the pros - which include Cameron - ensure a comfortable victory.

 

In the meantime, large foreign investors, nervous of the outcome, will withhold major investment decisions until there is some degree of certainty. This is will damage the British economy.

 

The anti-campaign is focused on the wrong thing. What we should be doing is democratising European institutions not raising the drawbridge on the real world.

 

Excellent summing up.

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

Very well put Verbal.

[View From The Top]

You've got the wrong end of the stick. The Japanese aren't talking about their concern about selling cars here - they'll sell cars to anyone (and to anyone in he UK with a higher price tag). They're talking about their investments here in motor and other manufacturing. The reason they invested here was driven (so to speak) by the UK's position within the EU. Nissan doesn't want to make cars here and then find they suddenly have to leap over trade barriers to sell their UK-manufactured cars in Europe. They will simply move production to Europe. End of story.

 

And for a supposedly arch-capitalist your proposal for British Leyland Mk 2, with a "government-established" volume car company, is quite bizarre. Never going to to happen.

 

The Japanese intervention is not even the first of its kind. The Americans did the same a couple of months ago when they said that they would not consider including Britain in the proposed bilateral trade convention with the EU if it voted to leave.

 

Let's get real here. For all the wishful thinking of the little englanders, the way this is going to go down is as follows: at the beginning of the referendum campaign, polls will show a substantial majority in favour of pulling out. As the campaign progresses, more and more alarming (and some alarmist) stories will be spooled out, so that the pros - which include Cameron - ensure a comfortable victory.

 

In the meantime, large foreign investors, nervous of the outcome, will withhold major investment decisions until there is some degree of certainty. This is will damage the British economy.

 

The anti-campaign is focused on the wrong thing. What we should be doing is democratising European institutions not raising the drawbridge on the real world.

 

*Like*

[Whitey Grandad]

Yes Verbal, I'm with you.

[Wes Tender]

You've got the wrong end of the stick. The Japanese aren't talking about their concern about selling cars here - they'll sell cars to anyone (and to anyone in he UK with a higher price tag). They're talking about their investments here in motor and other manufacturing. The reason they invested here was driven (so to speak) by the UK's position within the EU. Nissan doesn't want to make cars here and then find they suddenly have to leap over trade barriers to sell their UK-manufactured cars in Europe. They will simply move production to Europe. End of story.

 

And for a supposedly arch-capitalist your proposal for British Leyland Mk 2, with a "government-established" volume car company, is quite bizarre. Never going to to happen.

 

The Japanese intervention is not even the first of its kind. The Americans did the same a couple of months ago when they said that they would not consider including Britain in the proposed bilateral trade convention with the EU if it voted to leave.

 

Let's get real here. For all the wishful thinking of the little englanders, the way this is going to go down is as follows: at the beginning of the referendum campaign, polls will show a substantial majority in favour of pulling out. As the campaign progresses, more and more alarming (and some alarmist) stories will be spooled out, so that the pros - which include Cameron - ensure a comfortable victory.

 

In the meantime, large foreign investors, nervous of the outcome, will withhold major investment decisions until there is some degree of certainty. This is will damage the British economy.

 

The anti-campaign is focused on the wrong thing. What we should be doing is democratising European institutions not raising the drawbridge on the real world.

 

When all's said and done, there are a lot of assumptions made about what the Japanese and Americans and indeed what Europe would do if we voted to leave the EU in a referendum, but that is all they are, assumptions and conjecture. There is a lot of posturing going on, but when push comes to shove, everybody realises that trading tariffs are not going to be in anybodys' interests. And then equally of course it could be argued that if our trading ties were loosened with those partners, we would then form trading agreements with others.

 

When you say let's get real about how it will go, I don't agree with your summary of what will transpire. What will happen in my opinion, is that polls will show a clear majority wishing to leave. There will be the scare-mongering from those alarmists, but instead of that swinging the vote for us to stay in, there will be a groundswell adopting the position that we should retain our trading links with Europe but ditch everything else that has been adopted to turn Europe into the EU instead of the Common Market. Thus we will not be raising the drawbridge on the real world (whatever you perceive that to be) and would have no need to democratise Europe, as we would not be subservient to their laws and quite content with our own democracy.

 

I suspect that regardless of how the yes/no vote divides on here, there would be a clear majority for us to be part of the original Common Market that we joined following the only referendum that we had on the subject without all the other rubbish forced upon us in an attempt to form a Federal Europe. I for one voted for the Common Market and would be entirely happy to return to that unencumbered by everything else. I don't see why there has to be a simple yes/no vote. If UKIP gain a substantial vote during the European Elections, there is time for discussions about a strategy to adopt a fall-back position of retaining the trade agreements but renegotiating everything else that our past governments have signed up to without asking for the approval of the electorate.

 

I expect that the response to that will be that Europe will never agree to it. But then that is what they would say until it becomes clear that we are serious about leaving unless we can renegotiate. That is when the large insustrial concerns within the member states will bring pressure onto their respective governements to reach some compromise with us, because they fear the loss of business with us that would be caused by them placing tariffs on our exports and us retaliating with tariffs on their products.

 

As for your conclusion that if Japan withdrew their car manufacturing presence from the UK, that we would get a government-established British Leyland MK2 here, it seems to have escaped your notice that Red Robbo isn't around any longer and that the TU workers that killed off British Leyland were repaced by robots. We actually have a very hard-working and skilled British workforce in the car industry now and the Sunderland Nissan plant ranks high among their World operations in terms of productivity and innovation. We have some of the best designers here too. Apart from the jobs involved directly in the manufacture of the cars at the plants, there are thousands of jobs tied up in the engineering sector supplying parts. If a number of plants closed in the UK because manufacturing was moved elsewhere, (like Ford Transit, which had nothing to do with the EU debate) then there is no reason why some arch-capitalist entrepreneurs shouldn't set up the manufacture of cars (or vans) over here, especially given the sort of government grants that helped Nissan establish a plant in Sunderland.

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

There seems to be a notion amonst the "No" camp that we would be able pick a preferred position and relationship with the EU after exit. Now it may be the case that we will get such a relationship e.g. Common Market only but in reality we'd have to take exactly what the EU chose to give us. If they wanted to screw us over (not out of the realms of possibility) we'd have to lump because once you're out you lose influence. You can be sure that France will see a UK exit as good news because they think it will weaken us and strengthen them.

[Lord Duckhunter]

The same arguments for staying in the EU were used by the Pro Euro people and "big business" (including the Japanese).

[Wes Tender]

There seems to be a notion amonst the "No" camp that we would be able pick a preferred position and relationship with the EU after exit. Now it may be the case that we will get such a relationship e.g. Common Market only but in reality we'd have to take exactly what the EU chose to give us. If they wanted to screw us over (not out of the realms of possibility) we'd have to lump because once you're out you lose influence. You can be sure that France will see a UK exit as good news because they think it will weaken us and strengthen them.

 

A substantial no vote would leave us in a strong negotiating position. We would not accept what they wanted to give us, but what suited us too. You speak as if we haven't ever been screwed already by Europe since we joined. I'm happy for France to slog it out with Germany as to which is the top dog. Perhaps the Frogs will pursuade them that French should then be the main language of Europe. That will be fun

[View From The Top]

Personally I think anyone who wants to be out of the EU as decidedly odd. However, the EU does need a serious overhaul and if that's not possible then perhaps a re-negotiation and a move towards a looser membership is the next best option.

[Batman]

are better or worse of without the Euro? serious question?

[View From The Top]

are better or worse of without the Euro? serious question?

 

The Euro? As in the currency? Now that something that even an ardent pro-European like me would have voted against.

[CB Saint]

I don't want the Europe we have today with increasing powers and money being wielded by the unelected and the unaacountable.

 

I also don't want to pull up the draw bridge, block the tunnel and turn our back on Europe completely.

 

What I would like to see is the reversal of a huge amount of the powers that have been appropriated by the EU and a return to a trading block. Lets collaborate to negociate with the US, Japan and China, but let us govern ourselves.

[derry]

As somebody who voted for continuing in the common market, who remembers what it was like before entry, all I can say is that the EU is the biggest, most corrupt scam ever vested on this planet by a political minority. It has turned this country into mess with it's laws and restrictions.

[angelman]

So the Japanese want us to stay in EU so that their investments are protected! Great. And what about what might be best for us in this country.

 

As for trade, maybe people should look at where our balance of payments deficit lies. Say, rounding off, it is £40bn a year. With EU it is running at about (give or take a billion or two) £40bn and with the rest of the world it is about neutral. I can't find figures at this time save for 2010, where the EU deficit was £46.3bn and rest of the world was in surplus to the tune of £10.3bn

 

Do you really envisage the EU kissing good bye to £40bn net worth of trade?

[hypochondriac]

I don't want the Europe we have today with increasing powers and money being wielded by the unelected and the unaacountable.

 

I also don't want to pull up the draw bridge, block the tunnel and turn our back on Europe completely.

 

What I would like to see is the reversal of a huge amount of the powers that have been appropriated by the EU and a return to a trading block. Lets collaborate to negociate with the US, Japan and China, but let us govern ourselves.

 

Thats pretty much what I want. All the advantages of trade, being able to move freely etc. Without the rest of the rubbish.

[SOTONS EAST SIDE]

When all's said and done, there are a lot of assumptions made about what the Japanese and Americans and indeed what Europe would do if we voted to leave the EU in a referendum, but that is all they are, assumptions and conjecture. There is a lot of posturing going on, but when push comes to shove, everybody realises that trading tariffs are not going to be in anybodys' interests. And then equally of course it could be argued that if our trading ties were loosened with those partners, we would then form trading agreements with others.

 

When you say let's get real about how it will go, I don't agree with your summary of what will transpire. What will happen in my opinion, is that polls will show a clear majority wishing to leave. There will be the scare-mongering from those alarmists, but instead of that swinging the vote for us to stay in, there will be a groundswell adopting the position that we should retain our trading links with Europe but ditch everything else that has been adopted to turn Europe into the EU instead of the Common Market. Thus we will not be raising the drawbridge on the real world (whatever you perceive that to be) and would have no need to democratise Europe, as we would not be subservient to their laws and quite content with our own democracy.

 

I suspect that regardless of how the yes/no vote divides on here, there would be a clear majority for us to be part of the original Common Market that we joined following the only referendum that we had on the subject without all the other rubbish forced upon us in an attempt to form a Federal Europe. I for one voted for the Common Market and would be entirely happy to return to that unencumbered by everything else. I don't see why there has to be a simple yes/no vote. If UKIP gain a substantial vote during the European Elections, there is time for discussions about a strategy to adopt a fall-back position of retaining the trade agreements but renegotiating everything else that our past governments have signed up to without asking for the approval of the electorate.

 

I expect that the response to that will be that Europe will never agree to it. But then that is what they would say until it becomes clear that we are serious about leaving unless we can renegotiate. That is when the large insustrial concerns within the member states will bring pressure onto their respective governements to reach some compromise with us, because they fear the loss of business with us that would be caused by them placing tariffs on our exports and us retaliating with tariffs on their products.

 

As for your conclusion that if Japan withdrew their car manufacturing presence from the UK, that we would get a government-established British Leyland MK2 here, it seems to have escaped your notice that Red Robbo isn't around any longer and that the TU workers that killed off British Leyland were repaced by robots. We actually have a very hard-working and skilled British workforce in the car industry now and the Sunderland Nissan plant ranks high among their World operations in terms of productivity and innovation. We have some of the best designers here too. Apart from the jobs involved directly in the manufacture of the cars at the plants, there are thousands of jobs tied up in the engineering sector supplying parts. If a number of plants closed in the UK because manufacturing was moved elsewhere, (like Ford Transit, which had nothing to do with the EU debate) then there is no reason why some arch-capitalist entrepreneurs shouldn't set up the manufacture of cars (or vans) over here, especially given the sort of government grants that helped Nissan establish a plant in Sunderland.

+1 Wes. Back too the Common Market, FU to a federal Europe!! Edited 22 July, 2013 by SOTONS EAST SIDE

[TopGun]

Thats pretty much what I want. All the advantages of trade, being able to move freely etc. Without the rest of the rubbish.

 

Isn't the being "able to move freely" exactly the sticking point with UKIP and their supporters? "Bloody foreigners taking our jobs" etc...

[Batman]

Isn't the being "able to move freely" exactly the sticking point with UKIP and their supporters? "Bloody foreigners taking our jobs" etc...

 

its not that at all, is it.

Personally, I feel we should have stronger links with many of the commonwealth nations rather than the very strong ties with some of these european nations

[View From The Top]

its not that at all, is it.

Personally, I feel we should have stronger links with many of the commonwealth nations rather than the very strong ties with some of these european nations

 

You mean the white ones?

[Batman]

You mean the white ones?

 

bit racist?

[View From The Top]

Thats pretty much what I want. All the advantages of trade, being able to move freely etc. Without the rest of the rubbish.

 

Most would but it's stupid to suppose that we'd be allowed to pick and chose which appears to the the "out" argument.

[View From The Top]

bit racist?

 

Why closer ties with only some and not all?

[Batman]

Why closer ties with only some and not all?

 

because some commonwealth nations may not be in our best interests. Take Pakistan, a not very stable state that sponsor terrorism and have been kick out numerous times may not be in our best interests to have free trade/movements with

 

india, may be a different story. `i dont know the ins and outs but many of the commonwealth nations have strong historical links with us, have very similar cultures and likes. many even have the same head of state etc.

 

just an opinion, no hidden racist agenda

[Smirking_Saint]

Thats pretty much what I want. All the advantages of trade, being able to move freely etc. Without the rest of the rubbish.

 

Pretty much this sums up what I would want, Im not sure that it is or ever will be an option until such a time that the Euro crumbles and the more affluent members realise that proping up every other member will not always work out rosey.

 

I am all for free movement within the union aswell, however I think stronger and stricter rules are required, I have worked with plenty of 'johnny Foreigners' that provide a service we as a country cannot provide ourselves however I also know there are many more of whoms trade we just dont need. Why not be more selective like Oz etc ? Only allowing entry if you have a skillbase req and a certain monetary value behind you UNLESS there is a warranted reason to which people are escaping prejudice etc ?

 

I am all for helping my fellow man etc but a country should be free to govern its citizens who voted for it as its democratic leaders and in turn its OWN citizens should be placed first.

[Wes Tender]

It seems from several posts here, that there is a reasonable consensus that favours leaving the EU, but continuing the original trading agreement we entered when we joined the Common Market.

 

So how about those whose position when offered the stark choice of in or out, choose to remain in? Would they in fact prefer the option of diminishing the encroachment of the EU into our affairs if we were able to bring that about? Or are they indeed perfectly happy with the current situation and content that eventually this path will lead inexorably towards a federal Europe?

[hypochondriac]

The problem is they will have a black and white yes or no vote and then when it is people want to stay in they will use that to say that people want an ever closer union.

[Wes Tender]

The problem is they will have a black and white yes or no vote and then when it is people want to stay in they will use that to say that people want an ever closer union.

 

Well, if our lords and masters had the common decency to offer us the choice with each successive treaty that got us further into bed with the Eurocrats, we wouldn't be in this mess.

[Lord Duckhunter]

The Times reporting today that the Governments help to buy scheme will have to be open to EU migrants because of EU laws.

[Wes Tender]

The Times reporting today that the Governments help to buy scheme will have to be open to EU migrants because of EU laws.

 

European bureaucrats really don't encourage the British electorate to appreciate being members of the EU, do they? And then they wonder why there is all this dissent over here.