The three main reasons we are not scoring enough goals.

[derry]

1) We are not getting to the byeline. We don't break quickly enough and drive for the byeline getting behind the defence and crossing back into the box.

 

2) None of the forwards not actually on the ball are making runs into the box on the offchance of a ball dropping, they are taking the easy option and waiting for a pass or a cross to them. Our players have to drive into the goal area on the chance of a breaking ball.

 

3)Adam Lallana is playing everywhere except where he has to play. Energetic, tries hard, skilful, but entirely wasted. He is selected as our important wide right player to give us width.

 

He plays very narrow and hardly ever wide on the line, it is ruining our shape and allows the defence to mass in the centre and block us off. It means he will hardly ever be in a position to take on the wide defender and drive for the byeline.

 

Our passing game is less effective and slows down as the full back, Lallana or another Saints player has to spend time moving wide, giving the opposition time to track back and get goalside in numbers.

 

He allows himself to be sucked in and ends up when the play is down our left, more near post, than hanging back on the back right edge of the penalty area, which would allow him to attack the far post. We have nobody there and have seen a proportion of crosses from the left wasted.

 

Lallana has to be more perceptive and discerning, he is wasting a lot of his energy and whilst he could be a very dangerous player, is playing in areas where he can be blocked by numbers and is not helping the teamplay.

Edited 7 December, 2008 by derry

[St Landrew]

Someone has actually been watching Saints play.

[Weston Saint]

Agree with all Derry says. We both discussed that during the game.

[Junction 9]

I'll add one more reason, David McGoldrick.

[70's Mike]

agree with most of that but would add that the team set up with 2 wide players means that it is difficult for full backs to overlap and get to the byline because the space is occupied by the wide playing forwards, when we do get there we, because of the set up. only have one in the box.

[Weston Super Saint]

That's revolutionary set ups for you

[Saint_clark]

Agree completely. We sometimes need to be more direct. There was a point yesterday where it was 4 on two and Lallana ran sideways, giving Wednesday time to get back and mark up. Ridiculous.

[paulwantsapint]

All above are spot on

plus most importantly nobody ever shoots on sight seems everyone wants a score the perfect goal where all 11 players get a least a touch before ball is walked over the goal line

[OldNick]

1) We are not getting to the byeline. We don't break quickly enough and drive for the byeline getting behind the defence and crossing back into the box.

 

2) None of the forwards not actually on the ball are making runs into the box on the offchance of a ball dropping, they are taking the easy option and waiting for a pass or a cross to them. Our players have to drive into the goal area on the chance of a breaking ball.

 

3)Adam Lallana is playing everywhere except where he has to play. Energetic, tries hard, skilful, but entirely wasted. He is selected as our important wide right player to give us width.

 

He plays very narrow and hardly ever wide on the line, it is ruining our shape and allows the defence to mass in the centre and block us off. It means he will hardly ever be in a position to take on the wide defender and drive for the byeline.

 

Our passing game is less effective and slows down as the full back, Lallana or another Saints player has to spend time moving wide, giving the opposition time to track back and get goalside in numbers.

 

He allows himself to be sucked in and ends up when the play is down our left, more near post, than hanging back on the back right edge of the penalty area, which would allow him to attack the far post. We have nobody there and have seen a proportion of crosses from the left wasted.

 

Lallana has to be more perceptive and discerning, he is wasting a lot of his energy and whilst he could be a very dangerous player, is playing in areas where he can be blocked by numbers and is not helping the teamplay.

it may be time to rest him for a few games.People knok DMG but he has scored quite a few goals but Lallana is short in that department.I want him to progress and he needs to learn to be more pro active where it matters

[benjii]

So who played in the "hole" (cough) yesterday?

[um pahars]

People knok DMG but he has scored quite a few goals but Lallana is short in that department.

 

He's got 5 goals this season, one of which was probably Lallana's and another a penalty.

 

As an almost ever present, that's not a particularly good return.

[Papa Shango]

4) McGoldrick is ****

[ottery st mary]

So who played in the "hole" (cough) yesterday?

 

They all may think their good in the hole, but I am told, none are good in the box..Is there any evidence of this.

Edited 7 December, 2008 by ottery st mary
spelling..copy other posters

[OldNick]

He's got 5 goals this season, one of which was probably Lallana's and another a penalty.

 

As an almost ever present, that's not a particularly good return.

I cant recall the goal that was Lallanas but Im just trying to be even handed.If DMG had the same stats as AL then we would be in deeper sh##. I dont want to erode any of the young players confidence and so wish for fans to see that both add to the team.

[ottery st mary]

Mighty Mac at Exeter in Carling Cup was definitely in by Lallana...

[1976_Child]

The reason, in my book, we aren't scoring is the usual lack of killer confidence whne getting near the box. The old saying "you miss 100% of the goals you don't go for" comes to mind. Got to have someone who is prepared to have a crack at the ball. Not every goal needs to be elegant and well formed. At least not in this league. Just have a frickin' crack at it!

[OldNick]

The reason, in my book, we aren't scoring is the usual lack of killer confidence whne getting near the box. The old saying "you miss 100% of the goals you don't go for" comes to mind. Got to have someone who is prepared to have a crack at the ball. Not every goal needs to be elegant and well formed. At least not in this league. Just have a frickin' crack at it!

exactly.

[um pahars]

The reason, in my book, we aren't scoring is the usual lack of killer confidence whne getting near the box. The old saying "you miss 100% of the goals you don't go for" comes to mind. Got to have someone who is prepared to have a crack at the ball. Not every goal needs to be elegant and well formed. At least not in this league. Just have a frickin' crack at it!

 

But didn't those stats released the other day show we have the highest number of shots in the division????

 

If so, then shooting isn't the problem, it's more to do with the accuracy and potency!!!!!

[Window Cleaner]

But didn't those stats released the other day show we have the highest number of shots in the division????

 

If so, then shooting isn't the problem, it's more to do with the accuracy and potency!!!!!

 

We do seem to have a lot of goal attempts, most of them high,wide and not so handsome.Time for me to get slagged off again but I will tell you again how we should win matches-GET RID OF LALLANA, he's nothing but a tricky dicky winger who contributes singularly little to our goal potential.Too small and too weak a shot to be a menace. It means whoever is up front gets double teamed.

[Windmill Arm 2]

1) We are not getting to the byeline. We don't break quickly enough and drive for the byeline getting behind the defence and crossing back into the box.

 

2) None of the forwards not actually on the ball are making runs into the box on the offchance of a ball dropping, they are taking the easy option and waiting for a pass or a cross to them. Our players have to drive into the goal area on the chance of a breaking ball.

 

3)Adam Lallana is playing everywhere except where he has to play. Energetic, tries hard, skilful, but entirely wasted. He is selected as our important wide right player to give us width.

 

He plays very narrow and hardly ever wide on the line, it is ruining our shape and allows the defence to mass in the centre and block us off. It means he will hardly ever be in a position to take on the wide defender and drive for the byeline.

 

Our passing game is less effective and slows down as the full back, Lallana or another Saints player has to spend time moving wide, giving the opposition time to track back and get goalside in numbers.

 

He allows himself to be sucked in and ends up when the play is down our left, more near post, than hanging back on the back right edge of the penalty area, which would allow him to attack the far post. We have nobody there and have seen a proportion of crosses from the left wasted.

 

Lallana has to be more perceptive and discerning, he is wasting a lot of his energy and whilst he could be a very dangerous player, is playing in areas where he can be blocked by numbers and is not helping the teamplay.

 

 

And there was me thinking we just dont have a strong enough striker

[1965onwards]

We don't have ANY strikers,just fannyabouters who don't get into the right places at the right time,and on the odd occasion that they do can't shoot with any power or accuracy.

 

That makes it difficult to win matches.

[um pahars]

We do seem to have a lot of goal attempts, most of them high,wide and not so handsome.Time for me to get slagged off again but I will tell you again how we should win matches-GET RID OF LALLANA, he's nothing but a tricky dicky winger who contributes singularly little to our goal potential.Too small and too weak a shot to be a menace. It means whoever is up front gets double teamed.

 

But Lallana has been playing wide right in recent games!!!

 

The reason whoever is up front is getting double teamed is because this "exciting and attacking" style of play under this "revolutionary coaching set up" insists on playing one up front, no matter what.

 

We obviously have no Plan B with regards our style (particularly at home)and it's not producing the goods. The only thing we do is swap like for like with Robertson & Paterson.

[explorer saint]

I agree we dont score because we are too slow and do not break quickly the opposition always has time to get men back. I blame the total football too many passes go backwards or sidewards when there is no need.. attack quickly for .... sake!

[exit2]

I agree with what has been said but I also think one major factor is the loss of Lee Holmes.

No for me personally there was a lad who could get down the by line and put in a decent cross!

[OldNick]

I agree with what has been said but I also think one major factor is the loss of Lee Holmes.

No for me personally there was a lad who could get down the by line and put in a decent cross!

that is correct and I hope he gets back soon

[ulstersaint]

that is correct and I hope he gets back soon

 

The loss of Holmes (and Dyer on loan?) a key reason for the lack of width and getting to the byeline to get crosses into the area.

[AndyNorthernSaints]

The loss of Holmes (and Dyer on loan?) a key reason for the lack of width and getting to the byeline to get crosses into the area.

Agree plus the lack of a proper old fashioned centre forward who can head and shoot.

[luke8588]

Stern John, Rasiak, Saganowski

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

1) We are not getting to the byeline. We don't break quickly enough and drive for the byeline getting behind the defence and crossing back into the box. Hardly surprising as we don't have any proper wingers in the team with Holmes injured and Dyer loaned out / fundamentally rubbish anyway .

 

2) None of the forwards not actually on the ball are making runs into the box on the offchance of a ball dropping, they are taking the easy option and waiting for a pass or a cross to them. Our players have to drive into the goal area on the chance of a breaking ball. You don't find very many strikers in this division with that natural (Micheal Owen) instinct to be in the right place at the right time - BWP & DMG certainly lack this ability or the pace needed to exploit it even if they did .

 

3)Adam Lallana is playing everywhere except where he has to play. Energetic, tries hard, skilful, but entirely wasted. He is selected as our important wide right player to give us width. I couldn't agree more , Adam should play up front alongside a 'big man' such as Rasiak or Stern John ideally - if we could afford them that is .

 

 

Good post Derry , you talk sense

[Thedelldays]

Good post Derry , you talk sense

if we dont have the players at the mo..why oh why do we persist with the same old formation then..?

[um pahars]

if we dont have the players at the mo..why oh why do we persist with the same old formation then..?

 

One of my main concerns with this manager.

 

Firstly he only appears to know one way of playing and proves incapable of changing formation to match or outwit opponents. Generally, if Plan A doesn't work, then that's that.

 

Secondly, I think rather than look at his resources and work out how he can get the best from them, he has a set way of how he wants to play and is then shoe horning players in to a system that some of them are not cut out for.

[Legod Third Coming]

There is a real misconception that the manager/coach has tried to explain that we do not play 1 up front. We play 3 up front - two wide men and a centre forward, and another forward just behind the 'spearhead'.

 

For me the initial observations are really sound but ignore that the spearhead striker needs to be able to hold the ball up and play in his colleagues. And that the striker in the hole, has to play close to the spearhead striker.

 

Watching our team, it would be pointless getting to the bye-line because theres is no-one on the penalty spot or at the far post waiting for the ball.

 

They just don't gamble on getting into the box.

 

What we need is an Alan Shearer. No-one complained when he used to play with another striker just off him.. who was that again...

[Legod Third Coming]

One of my main concerns with this manager.

 

Firstly he only appears to know one way of playing and proves incapable of changing formation to match or outwit opponents. Generally, if Plan A doesn't work, then that's that.

 

Secondly, I think rather than look at his resources and work out how he can get the best from them, he has a set way of how he wants to play and is then shoe horning players in to a system that some of them are not cut out for.

 

You didn't come to Charlton then?

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

if we dont have the players at the mo..why oh why do we persist with the same old formation then..?

 

The answer to that question DD lies deep in the recesses of Jan Poortvliet mind . This is how he wants us to play and we're sticking with it despite it's repeated failure at St Marys - the players just have to fit into his system rather than the other way round .

[Legod Third Coming]

The answer to that question DD lies deep in the recesses of Jan Poortvliet mind . This is how he wants us to play and we're sticking with it despite it's repeated failure at St Marys - the players just have to fit into his system rather than the other way round .

 

If you bother to listen to JP and the players, the vast majority of them have trained the way he plays from their Academy days. Maybe, just maybe that's why he is here and why he might need to be given a bit more time and opportunity to develop a team and build a successful future. Er, like Wenger has at Arsenal maybe? Or we could try throwing money at the problem. You got some?

[Thedelldays]

If you bother to listen to JP and the players, the vast majority of them have trained the way he plays from their Academy days. Maybe, just maybe that's why he is here and why he might need to be given a bit more time and opportunity to develop a team and build a successful future. Er, like Wenger has at Arsenal maybe? Or we could try throwing money at the problem. You got some?

 

 

you could not make this up.............

[Legod Third Coming]

you could not make this up.............

 

It's a perfectly valid example and one we can follow as a model. Or would you rather we adopted the Argyle model?

[Whitey Grandad]

I agree we dont score because we are too slow and do not break quickly the opposition always has time to get men back. I blame the total football too many passes go backwards or sidewards when there is no need.. attack quickly for .... sake!

This is my view too. There was a moment late in the second half when we had about 4 players bundling upfield and Llalana got the ball on the right wing at the half-way line. It was crying out for a ball upfield but a couple of passes and shimmies later the ball was passed back to James and then Davis. Sometimes it seems as if we are concentrating on making pretty, short passes instead of getting the ball forward quickly.

[Legod Third Coming]

This is my view too. There was a moment late in the second half when we had about 4 players bundling upfield and Llalana got the ball on the right wing at the half-way line. It was crying out for a ball upfield but a couple of passes and shimmies later the ball was passed back to James and then Davis. Sometimes it seems as if we are concentrating on making pretty, short passes instead of getting the ball forward quickly.

 

This is where we really miss Morgan and Holmes, both understand the value of a well hit long ball - and are bloody accurate.

[Whitey Grandad]

This is where we really miss Morgan and Holmes, both understand the value of a well hit long ball - and are bloody accurate.

And somebody in the middle with a killer instinct! And what was Paterson thinking when he was sent clear on the left? Three players busted a gut to get into the box and all he did was wait for their full-back to get back and block. As a result, they were so knackered that they weren't able to be effective in midfield and indirectly it led to Wednesday's equaliser.

[Legod Third Coming]

And somebody in the middle with a killer instinct! And what was Paterson thinking when he was sent clear on the left? Three players busted a gut to get into the box and all he did was wait for their full-back to get back and block. As a result, they were so knackered that they weren't able to be effective in midfield and indirectly it led to Wednesday's equaliser.

 

I know exactly what Paterson was thinking:

 

"I'm 20 years of age, never found myself in this position before, look at all those passionate faces, mustn't let them down, must make sure I...oh ******... I let myself, my team and my fans down..."

 

Hard being an apprentice sometimes.

[miserableoldgit]

I'll add one more reason, David McGoldrick.

Although I am not a great fan of McG, I am going to stand up for him a little bit. The one thing that he has is good close control, in a similar way to Peter Crouch. He is not, however, the natural goal scorer that Rupes and Co think he is. I am not sure where he ought to play, although, in the hole behind the stikers seems the likely position. The main reason that we are not scoring goals is that we don`t have a "poacher". A player with a natural gift for being in the right place at the right time. It`s a cutting edge that we need. We are creating chances but do not have a clinical finisher to put them in the back of the net.

[Legod Third Coming]

Although I am not a great fan of McG, I am going to stand up for him a little bit. The one thing that he has is good close control, in a similar way to Peter Crouch. He is not, however, the natural goal scorer that Rupes and Co think he is. I am not sure where he ought to play, although, in the hole behind the stikers seems the likely position. The main reason that we are not scoring goals is that we don`t have a "poacher". A player with a natural gift for being in the right place at the right time. It`s a cutting edge that we need. We are creating chances but do not have a clinical finisher to put them in the back of the net.

 

We do, but they are both on loan!!!!!

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

If you bother to listen to JP and the players, the vast majority of them have trained the way he plays from their Academy days. Maybe, just maybe that's why he is here and why he might need to be given a bit more time and opportunity to develop a team and build a successful future. Er, like Wenger has at Arsenal maybe? Or we could try throwing money at the problem. You got some?

 

Oh I do bother to listen to JP and it's perfectly true our academy players have utilised variations on the 4-3-3 system (and more conventional formations) during their training under Georges Prost . But playing at reserve team level and playing in the CCC are totally different beasts , IMO the system we are employing demands players of the very highest physical and mental ability , ideally seasoned professionals - to ask youngsters still learning their trade to fit into this system is a 'bridge to far' IMO .

 

You ask for more time for the team to develop - that's perfectly reasonable except for the fact that we are most definitely in a relegation fight now and with the season nearly half over we may not have the time - tempus fugit .

 

As for my personal financial contribution to the cause the club will just have to get by on my season ticket income and SLH share holding , naturally I would sell my house and its entire contents to support Southampton Football Club but 'She who must be obeyed' might object .

[miserableoldgit]

We do, but they are both on loan!!!!!

Yeah, well that is a fair point, but we can`t afford them apparently.

[Legod Third Coming]

Oh I do bother to listen to JP and it's perfectly true our academy players have utilised variations on the 4-3-3 system (and more conventional formations) during their training under Georges Prost . But playing at reserve team level and playing in the CCC are totally different beasts , IMO the system we are employing demands players of the very highest physical and mental ability , ideally seasoned professionals - to ask youngsters still learning their trade to fit into this system is a 'bridge to far' IMO .

 

You ask for more time for the team to develop - that's perfectly reasonable except for the fact that we are most definitely in a relegation fight now and with the season nearly half over we may not have the time - tempus fugit .

 

As for my personal financial contribution to the cause the club will just have to get by on my season ticket income and SLH share holding , naturally I would sell my house and its entire contents to support Southampton Football Club but 'She who must be obeyed' might object .

 

Why do you assume that we will get worse and others better?

It is just as reasonable to suppose that we are all as good as we are.

In which case, we will finish the season safe. We might even get better - don't you think the defence has got better? The midfield too? Yes, we're not scoring goals and no we don't have the world's best players. We have some good ones though and more to come back - Morgan and Holmes to name two key ones we appear to miss badly.

 

In any system, the best players are most likely to win - that's obvious, look at the Premiership and there is no debate as to who is top and why.

 

What we have is players who want to learn, want to improve, want to play and want to win. They and their coach will need support and time to get things right. That much we surely know about football?

 

In time he and they might not be up to it. But at the moment they're both proving just good enough. And for now, that's all we need.

[Chez]

spent most of the season sho9uting "get to the byeline". Th likes of James would rather cross from deep than dribble, even if there was space ahead of him.

 

When BWP got the byeline twice down the left hand side against Plymouth we looked lethal. Why doesn't he do that all the time. His left foot crossing is actually really good.

[um pahars]

You didn't come to Charlton then?

 

Aha, I did put a general in there.

 

However, in line with the title of this thread, I was thinking more of the way we attack going forward with the insistence of playing one up to, as opposed to shuffling the defence around (as important as that is).

[Legod Third Coming]

Aha, I did put a general in there.

 

However, in line with the title of this thread, I was thinking more of the way we attack going forward with the insistence of playing one up to, as opposed to shuffling the defence around (as important as that is).

 

 

He does say he plays with three up. That's his view so anyone calling for 4-4-2 is asking for a cut in our striking power... believe it or not!!!

[um pahars]

If you bother to listen to JP and the players, the vast majority of them have trained the way he plays from their Academy days.

 

So you're saying we've been playing this attacking style of Dutch Total Football in the Academy for years then???