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The Future of English Football - and are Saints playing their part?


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FA Chairman Greg Dyke plans to set up an FA Commission, comprising of the Premier League, Football League, Professional Footballers' Association and the League Managers' Association.

 

He has called upon clubs to field more English plays, and provided more youngsters with first-team opportunities.

 

He has also targeted a semi-final in Euro2020 and a final win in the 2022 World Cup.

 

He's also looking into changing the loan market, tightening Premier League work-permit restrictions and looking into a winter break.

 

 

Is it true that too many average foreign players are joining the Premier League, and are stunting the growth of English youngsters?

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23963416

 

Football Association chairman Greg Dyke says the England team should aim to reach the semi-final of Euro 2020 and win the World Cup in 2022.

 

But in a wide-ranging speech, Dyke warned that England may not be able to compete seriously on the world stage without changes.

 

"English football is a tanker that needs turning," he said.

 

Dyke will set up an FA commission to ask key questions on how England can change its long-term prospects.

 

The commission will ask why England are in this situation, what could be done and how any changes can be implemented.

 

The chairmen of the Premier League, Football League, Professional Footballers' Association and League Managers' Association have been invited to join the commission and Dyke has urged all in the game to come forward to give evidence.

 

Dyke's speech comes amid of backdrop of foreign influence in the top division, with many believing it is having an adverse effect on England teams.

 

Last season, the number of English under-21 players competing in the Premier League dropped to its lowest level. In the summer, the England Under-21 side crashed out of the European Championship in Israel without winning a point.

 

Dyke, 66, accepted that the FA "had not done as well as we should" in building a successful England team over the years.

 

He warned that the England set-up had been weakened rather than strengthened after 20 years of the Premier League but said his speech was "not designed to start a blame game".

 

During the summer transfer window, there were 137 Premier League signings but only 25 (or 18.2%) of those were English.

 

Financial analysts Deloitte said £60m of the gross £630m summer spending was on English players. This is just under 10%.

 

"We want to work hand in hand with the [Premier] League," added Dyke, who started in the FA role on 13 July.

 

He also highlighted the huge investment that Premier League clubs had made a huge investment in academies but so far the game had not seen "a huge return on that investment".

 

The FA chairman pointed out the difficulties in getting clubs to release players to join up with England squads at all levels.

 

He also spoke strongly about the limited playing opportunities that eligible English players receive at club level, saying there were issues getting players out of academies and into first-team line-ups.

 

"If the best of our emerging young players can't get a game here, then we have a serious problem," he said.

 

 

On a Southampton level, I feel we are doing our bit. In our matchday squads, you currently see Calum Chambers, Luke Shaw, James Ward-Prowse and Adam Lallana. I'd say that's pretty good going.

 

Cortese's policy of buying for the first team, e.g. bringing in Lovren, Wanyama, Osvaldo gives immediate strength, whilst himself and the committee then support and pad the squad with academy youngsters, with his well-known target of getting 50% of the academy into the first team. Others then observe the opportunities earned and given to the likes of Luke, James, Adam and Calum, and it therefore draws more talent towards the Saints academy.

 

 

So what are your thoughts?

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We are doing more than enough tbh. Compared to other teams in the league I.e. Newcastle, with their French intake, Chelsea, produce a good player in Nathaniel Chalobah who they haven't given a chance too, Man City, purchase top player s in la liga and serie A, don't see anything from thier academy regarding they are spending millions and millions on it??

 

I think us and Spurs ( Rose & Townsend) are the only clubs in the premier league which give our youngster a go and eventually pays off and benifits the national side in the long term. Overall, most teams just worry using players form their academy, we are going the right way about it and gives out a good image of this club!

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Too many shìt coaches and lack of direction from the FA and their fuddy-duddy ways I'm afraid.

 

They haven't driven football but let the big clubs do it, hence the PL receiving the most money.

 

They should have built St George's park 30 years ago, got a better deal for Wembley and invested more in grass roots football.

Edited by Doctoroncall
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Been too much of a rot for a long time at every level, the influx of foreigners to the prem, although making it a very much more exciting place has made life difficult for the average youngster coming through the ranks.

 

A lack of proper directive or decent technical guidance from coaches, especially at youth levels is now finally getting the attention it needs but had been neglected for too long.

 

Also there is the problem of obesity and kids these days shunning exercise etc

 

Its gonna take a while

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Too many shìt coaches and lack of direction from the FA and their fuddy-duddy ways I'm afraid. They haven't driven football but let the big clubs do it.

 

Actually, the PL control it more than the 'big clubs'. I was apart of the youth review in grassroots and EPPP, Saints are VERY highly regarded.

 

Hence Matt Crockers new role at the FA.

 

Until PL place in regulations regarding home players, I do not think it'll work.

 

Also, it will not happen over night.

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The FA has no right to tell any of the clubs who to pick. The money currently on offer in the BPL is such that clubs will not put the nations side ahead of their own need for success / Premier League status.

 

The sooner the FA stop battling the clubs and focus on teaching the youngsters properly, the sooner we will see more youngsters being good enough to compete in the BPL. It really is as simple as that.

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the fa has no right to tell any of the clubs who to pick. The money currently on offer in the bpl is such that clubs will not put the nations side ahead of their own need for success / premier league status.

 

The sooner the fa stop battling the clubs and focus on teaching the youngsters properly, the sooner we will see more youngsters being good enough to compete in the bpl. it really is as simple as that.

 

lol

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Actually, the PL control it more than the 'big clubs'. I was apart of the youth review in grassroots and EPPP, Saints are VERY highly regarded.

 

Hence Matt Crockers new role at the FA.

 

Until PL place in regulations regarding home players, I do not think it'll work.

 

Also, it will not happen over night.

 

Sorry, didn't complete my post. Not blaming the PL and I think EPPP is a good thing.

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The FA has no right to tell any of the clubs who to pick. The money currently on offer in the BPL is such that clubs will not put the nations side ahead of their own need for success / Premier League status.

 

The sooner the FA stop battling the clubs and focus on teaching the youngsters properly, the sooner we will see more youngsters being good enough to compete in the BPL. It really is as simple as that.

 

Not exactly, it took a bottoming out of cash in both the german and spanish leagues to essentially kick start their revival, most of them decided that proper coaching of youngsters was the way forward as it enables you, as a club, to develop new 1st team talent or at the very leadt cash in on them.

 

No club is ever going to put the England squad first, ever, so we either change the rules or develop a way to encourage the decelopment of youngsters which is why the new academy set up has been set up. (EPPP)

 

Unfortunately it will always be a better risk to purchase a cheaper exp player from abroad then to blood an unknown youngster, of course you still get some coming through but they tend to be the elite youngsters, we need to give time to the level below that aswell. Part of it could possibly be to somehow stop top youngster being hoovered up and sitting on benches at top clubs ?

 

The changes at grassroots and in academy structures will improve coaching, but its going to take years.

 

FWIW part of the reason I got out of coaching was because the majority (at the time) would not embrace chsnge or new techniques, Saints did and have for a long time but coaching needs to be stronger at all levels, not just the top.

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The FA has no right to tell any of the clubs who to pick. The money currently on offer in the BPL is such that clubs will not put the nations side ahead of their own need for success / Premier League status.

 

The sooner the FA stop battling the clubs and focus on teaching the youngsters properly, the sooner we will see more youngsters being good enough to compete in the BPL. It really is as simple as that.

really...

 

So it's all the FA's fault...

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There is more money in the BPL than La Liga but that does not explain why there is such a stark difference between the percentage of players available to play for the country of the league. I think it approximately 35% of the players in the BPL are able to play for England, where as in La Liga it is 65% (give or take a couple of points). Further to this the respective national sides are miles apart in quality too.

 

Spain and England are relatively similar in sporting opportunities available to youngsters, the youngsters (climate aside) have similar upbringings. So why such a difference in quality produced?

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There is more money in the BPL than La Liga but that does not explain why there is such a stark difference between the percentage of players available to play for the country of the league. I think it approximately 35% of the players in the BPL are able to play for England, where as in La Liga it is 65% (give or take a couple of points). Further to this the respective national sides are miles apart in quality too.

 

Spain and England are relatively similar in sporting opportunities available to youngsters, the youngsters (climate aside) have similar upbringings. So why such a difference in quality produced?

 

You wrote the answer in your first sentance

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As I posted previously, I had to agree with Patrick Barclay in the Standard, the Monday after the first weekend. He hailed the performances of Sturridge, Barkely (Everton), and Luke Shaw for us, and then concluded: "Now would someone please take me, just one more time, through the argument about young English players being stifled by the polygot Premier League?"

 

If they are good enough at the age of 17-20, they will play, even if they have to move clubs occasionally, as Sturridge did. The issue is with the standard of kids coaching, the continuing obsession with physique/ fitness, over ability and ball skills (hence young kids playing on full size pitches) and the lack of investment by the FA

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Not exactly, it took a bottoming out of cash in both the german and spanish leagues to essentially kick start their revival, most of them decided that proper coaching of youngsters was the way forward as it enables you, as a club, to develop new 1st team talent or at the very leadt cash in on them.

 

 

Not sure I entirely agree with this. The German national side has been successful for decades now, the Spanish were the perennial under achievers but that wasn't down to lack of opportunity or quality. Technically both nations have long been ahead of England, these technical skills are not inherited, they are taught.

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The key thing is, English teams don't look to there academies all that much I mean Chelsea and Man city plow money in and get the best kids from around the world and then.... Goes and buys a 30+ million player all the time. And in there academies it's not just English youth that are apprently not good enough, but everywhere else's youth too.

 

What I'm essentially getting at is with clubs that have money they tend to but the ready made instant star players, rather than nurture and blood youth (regardless of nationality) I believe.

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Until PL place in regulations regarding home players, I do not think it'll work.

 

Monk, I don't know the extent of your involvement in coaching and I'm sure you have your reasons for believing the above but it struck me as quite sad that this is your viewpoint.

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We discussed this literally less than a week ago.

 

I think Ive commented at length on this about 12 times this month......

 

FWIW from an FA point of view he has said basically what I wanted then to do, within reason, I agree with Monk, unless you force the clubs to change (which is essentially what EPPP achieved) they will not as the money that follows success in the PL is too great.

 

But as I said before, they need to set up their decelopment squads to the same system as the senior side, ensure that clubs will release youth players to the development squads and make sure that players respect an England call up at all levels

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Harry Redknapp was spouting off on talksport again this morning, but he did make a couple of salient points. You never see kids playing football in the street or on bits of waste land over here like they used to, in South America and central Europe where all the best players seems to come from these days they do. There the ball bounces of walls, uneven ground and bits of metal and its there you learn how to control, pass and dribble the ball properly from a young age when it comes to you at unpredicatable angles and bounces. No one taught George Best how to dribble or Bobby Charlton how to shoot. He also questioned the desire of a lot of younger players, saying alot of them arent really interested in the national team and more interested in the club.I agreed entirely with what he was saying.

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Just been chatting to Monk and he's asked me to put this on here as he needs to renew his sub but is busy at the moment. Take a read - it all makes a lot of sense to me IMO.

 

-------------------------

 

The English culture restricts us. Children are not out playing footing in cul-de-sacs, climbing tree’s or fences. Even the finer details have an effect. We will never play like the Spanish as it’s a completely different culture, siesta’s, diets, climate and more. British children are now either wrapped up in cotton wool or stuck in playing xbox’s or playstations. Our children need to be introduced to different sports at an early age. Enhance their motor skills and psychological awareness of what they can and cannot do with their bodies.

Redknapps claim may be ludicrous to a few but it is so true.

 

English coaching has been poor for the last twenty years, I have found when a coach gets to a certain level or receives recognition at being remotely useful they cut themselves off from other coaches believing because they are elite, and they should only be working at that level. It riles me so much, if you are a good coach; get out at grassroots level and share it, engage with others. Strikes me as an Island mentality, coaches don’t like being told they are ‘wrong’ or ‘their way isn’t the only way’.

I have seen a slight change in coaches’ mentality and twitter has been excellent for linking our coaches and resources. However I am conscious that coaches will just start using resources just for the sake of a session, not with any relevance or engaging the creativity of a coach.

 

Grassroots need to move away from results but just allow kids to play. We do not encourage creativity, we stifle it, and it scares coaches as it usual is a sign of an individual. Coaches are more comfortable with a team of ten robots “yes sir, no sir”. We need to have a team of ten individuals. Let them experiment, be creative, disruptive at times. Personalities should never be concealed, it’s usual a daring individual that will try something out of the ‘norm’ and becomes a match winner. That’s how a number ‘10’ can be created, not by a drill sergeant.

 

Coaches and parents don’t need to shout at match days “pass it”, “Shoot”. Let the child make their own decisions, ask them “can we dribble or pass?”, “What might you do differently next time?”

Have winter breaks through out the country. During these breaks, get the children playing in Futsal based leagues.

 

The stats do not lie either, Spain, Germany, Italy, Holland, Brazil. All of their leagues are biased towards their own players. Even the top leagues in countries like Croatia, Sweden, France, and Ukraine are full of over 50% players from their respective countries. I can tell you know from experience, I took a squad from a satellite centre to play a ‘trialist’ team at Cobham. The trialist team only had five English players and 4 foreign; this was under 13’s for crying out loud.

 

The BPL has been superb but it is a separate entity to the FA, most clubs are too scared to blood youth at the top level because of the financial repercussions. I personally think that clubs should have a quota of English players or academy products. Let them experience match days, let them make mistakes or excel.

 

The FA are doing the right things now with their skills programme and working with the EPPP but it will not happen overnight and when the player is ready, that club needs to have faith in its own product (not just the player but their work with that individual).

Edited by itchen_dan
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i like how monk has got a personal secretary now! I could use a personal secretary, I would just be like oh yeah, tokyos, tell them dumb idiots on saintsweb that Jose Fonte should get dropped or whatever. Also make a joke about bj or something.

 

apply by pm + photos pls. Salary negotiable.

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They just need to restrict the amount of foreigners a team can field. Unless they do that, the money in the game over here will always mean people will come from far and wide to play here.

 

Obviously kids should be coached the right way but I would be surprised if the standard of coaching in the Prem is worse than throughout Europe.

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Problem is the FA trying to come up with all encompassing policies to improve standards.

The issue for me is that Grassroots football are being asked to improve the level of ability of young players and bear that cost, the players who are good enough are already at Academys and there future is in the hands of the so called Professional clubs, problem is that the Professional clubs are solely motivated by money and so the players do not get a chance.

Young english players are going to academys from 8 orr younger and are meant to be taught by the best in the game so why are they not good enough?

 

The number of Level1 coaches in this country is going up but it is a very basic qualification, it is not until you get to level 2 that you start getting taught how to play and coach the actual game rather than just training, and until the FA starts offering cheaper courses at Level 2 the actual standard of play in games will not improve. The current move to 9 v 9 at Under 11 will help but unless parents are banned from going to games little Jonny will still hoof it it Dad mouths off enough.

 

It is getting more and more difficult at grassroots level to find volunteers to coach, manage and help run clubs, partly because of the FA rules which assume that ALL CLUBS are run by full time employees rather than volunteers.

 

Until the FA tackle the Premier League nothing will happen

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Harry Redknapp was spouting off on talksport again this morning, but he did make a couple of salient points. You never see kids playing football in the street or on bits of waste land over here like they used to, in South America and central Europe where all the best players seems to come from these days they do. There the ball bounces of walls, uneven ground and bits of metal and its there you learn how to control, pass and dribble the ball properly from a young age when it comes to you at unpredicatable angles and bounces. No one taught George Best how to dribble or Bobby Charlton how to shoot. He also questioned the desire of a lot of younger players, saying alot of them arent really interested in the national team and more interested in the club.I agreed entirely with what he was saying.

 

Until we relocate our centre of excellence from Burton to Sellafield then youth in this country won't stand a chance.

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As ever an excellent post by Monk.

 

Oh right, Ive been saying this for about the last 3 months and now its gospel...

 

Stupid agenda ridden saintsweb nazi's

 

 

 

 

 

Its like when I tell my wife something, she ignores me and a week later she comes back and says she should be doing exactly what I told her as she has been advises it by someone else.

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They just need to restrict the amount of foreigners a team can field. Unless they do that, the money in the game over here will always mean people will come from far and wide to play here.

 

Obviously kids should be coached the right way but I would be surprised if the standard of coaching in the Prem is worse than throughout Europe.

 

am i wrong, but don't the german /spanish/italian leagues have, or did have a policy whereby you had to play a certain amount of home-grown players? if that is the case, why can't we?

 

also, i think there is too much pressure on small kids to be taught how to play football. the best teams in the world (new zealand- rugby, brazil- football, kerry- gaelic football) all have one thing in common. they don't have competitive leagues until the kids reach under 10 or 11. they let them enjoy playing and learning through fun before having someone teach them how they should play, depending on that individuals coaching technique.

 

how many times is it said of good foreign players, he wouldn't have made it if he were english, he's too small/thin/light etc, etc, etc.

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am i wrong, but don't the german /spanish/italian leagues have, or did have a policy whereby you had to play a certain amount of home-grown players? if that is the case, why can't we?

 

also, i think there is too much pressure on small kids to be taught how to play football. the best teams in the world (new zealand- rugby, brazil- football, kerry- gaelic football) all have one thing in common. they don't have competitive leagues until the kids reach under 10 or 11. they let them enjoy playing and learning through fun before having someone teach them how they should play, depending on that individuals coaching technique.

 

how many times is it said of good foreign players, he wouldn't have made it if he were english, he's too small/thin/light etc, etc, etc.

 

You're probably right about being too competitive too young. The team I played for as a kid won the league by launching it down the line then getting it in the mixer. It was very effective and we didn't care because we were winning.

 

I suppose it could be argued that we play the way we do because we have little talent not the other way round though. In general English people have always been sh!t at football. The only time we ever won anything was with home advantage, light years ago. We keep looking for reasons but there might not be any, we may just need to face the fact that we are not very good.

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If you want an assessment of what's wrong with English football, you only have to look at the way the press have fawned over Lambert's inclusion in the England team. Don't get me wrong. Rickie deserves all the plaudits he has coming his way and again, the Southampton experience has been key to getting him there. In reality, Lambert should have made his ascent and been developed much earlier, but the focus on foreign talent has prevented him and perhaps many others like him from being identified and developed.

 

Rules for home-grown players should help, but don't go far enough as they apply to the squad, not the team. Plus if the player is under 21, all bets are off.

 

http://www.premierleague.com/en-gb/fans/faqs/home-grown-player-rule/

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Oh right, Ive been saying this for about the last 3 months and now its gospel...

 

Stupid agenda ridden saintsweb nazi's

 

 

 

 

 

Its like when I tell my wife something, she ignores me and a week later she comes back and says she should be doing exactly what I told her as she has been advises it by someone else.

 

No offence Bessie but its the mongboard pecking order.

 

People you take things as gospel from are as follows

 

Me

Monk

Glasgow

Dig dig

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Nice words from Greg

 

Brilliant post from Monk via his Secretary.

 

But and here is the rub.

 

Until the England MANAGER picks ENGLISH Players who are getting games EVERY WEEK, what is the point?

 

English players see money and join the big clubs get huge salaries but never play. How the hell can it benefit an England Team when you pick half the squad who aren't playing football?

 

The FA could make an instant difference by telling Woy to pick players who actually are getting PL game time.

 

Sure for the next year or so it will harm England's chances, but after that, those who REALLY want to play for England will not settle for 100k a week to sit on the bench at Citeh etc.

 

Two sides to the coin, and yes, Saints ARE trying to make a difference, but nobody will notice until Jrod/Al/LS/JC get called up

 

Oh JC isn't eligible any more......

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Until kids are taught a completely different game from the earliest age possible and I don't mean academy's, I mean Sunday league teams, we'll get nowhere. Until then, I'll continue, along with many others, with not giving two hoots about the national team.

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Another issue seems to be that there is no consistency with our U21, 20, 19 set up. Too many young players (especially those at the big teams) get put straight into the senior side after a few hand fulls of appearances in the Premier League because we think it shows a committment to developing youg players.

 

Spain and Germany use their U21 side very effectively and allow groups of young players to play tournament football together before moving groups up to the senior side at the same time. Here, being an U21 for a period of time probably means that you're unlikely to progress to the senior squad if you haven't been plucked out after a few caps.

 

Ross Barkley, Wilfred Zaha and Rahim Sterling are all recent examples of players who have done nowhere near enough for get full England caps and should be learning through the U21's.

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Another issue seems to be that there is no consistency with our U21, 20, 19 set up. Too many young players (especially those at the big teams) get put straight into the senior side after a few hand fulls of appearances in the Premier League because we think it shows a committment to developing youg players.

 

Spain and Germany use their U21 side very effectively and allow groups of young players to play tournament football together before moving groups up to the senior side at the same time. Here, being an U21 for a period of time probably means that you're unlikely to progress to the senior squad if you haven't been plucked out after a few caps.

 

Ross Barkley, Wilfred Zaha and Rahim Sterling are all recent examples of players who have done nowhere near enough for get full England caps and should be learning through the U21's.

 

Exactly right, also to compound matters, players can openly say they do not want to attend U21 tournaments and seemingly there is no punishment. They will end uo earning a cheap senior cap anyway.

 

(i wrote that before too)

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Monk's advocate touched on an important point about parents and kids' coaches. Friends of mine have a couple of football-mad kids and they go along and support them at the games. However a lot of the parents' attitudes and behaviour is totally inappropriate, bullying and often bordering on violence. It knocks the kids' confidence and enjoyment to the extent that one of them (9 years old) is reluctant to go along now and the coach (who was no great shakes, to be fair) has been forced out.

 

So often it's not the kids' attitude or enthusiasm at fault, it's the parents who need to look to their own behaviour.

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Imposing quotas of home grown talent on premier league clubs would only dilute the quality of the premier league, that ain't going to happen. That being the case the FA need to get real and find a way to improve things and not hide behind the charade of the nasty boys at the BPL stopping the national side from realising trophies.

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Wrote this just after U21 tourney

 

------------

 

 

 

We have had entirely the wrong idea for tournament preparation and getting an international side to the level required to perform under those conditions.

 

Too much emphasis is put on how the England marketing machine is there to make money in the way that we play too many prestiege friendlies and concentrate on our more marketable players making appearances. It all has to be changed from the top down, they need a director of football and the respective managers of the England teams (U19s, U21's, senior) all singing from the same hymn sheet and understanding how to build an international side.

 

This includes keeping the best possible teams together for the underage tournaments, not whisking them away for pointless friendlies. Making more use of our technical training centre. And not picking players in a side that are too old for the next WC, whether its a euro season or not. The team needs to bed and gel and the fact you get little time to coach internationals mean that its vital to get them to gel.

 

The prem and the FA need to stop banging their heads together aswell, and personally if a player refuses to play in an under 21 tourney I would refuse to pick then for the full side.

 

Itll be a long road, so will need to ignore the media and fans clamour for overage players that just show some short term form in order to bring younger blood through. Even at international levels a team can go through transition. Hermany did, spain did, italy did.

 

Sadly England and the FA are more concerned with money than success.

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