Sir Clive Woodward

[Professor]

Interesting report on SCW in The Times (12 Aug) about his role with the British Olympic Association. Rebecca Adlington has credited SCW with motivating her ahead of her swimming gold. Through his Elite Perfomance Service he is also working with a mixture of atheletes and competitors who are aiming at the 2012 Games. When he was at Southampton there was view that it was not possible that a background in Rugby could be relevant to soccer. The Times article says that SCW has always met resistance to his use of training methods drawn from across the sporting spectrum and from business. He seemed to meet that resistance here in the form of 'arry Redknapp.

People can cross sports, for example, Rebecca Romero, the olympic cyclist converted from being a silver medalist 4 years ago at rowing and is now world class at cycling.

SCW was on a loser at Southampton because his appointment was by Rupert Lowe and many people who were against Lowe, automatically took against SCW. We will never know what he could have done for Saints, but it does seems that his skills do work outside of rugby, which was not thought possible by some Saints fans at the time.

[Rattlehead]

Shouldn't this be in the Olympics forum?

[benjii]

Less relevant than the "which shareholder is at the match?" threads IMO.

[benjii]

SCW was on a loser becaus he was parachuted in above a manager who didn't want to work with him and was the sole brainchild of an unpopular and failed chairman.

 

I think we all know that.

[Legod Second Coming]

Can you find the direct quote from Adlington??

[Professor]

Can you find the direct quote from Adlington??

The quote from Adlington is:- "After hearing him speak, you felt like you could do anything." (After SCW addressed the swimming squad on the eve of the Games).

 

Its quite true that Lowe handled SCW's appointment at Saints very badly. It should have been made clear that he was not a threat to Redknapp, and as that wasn't done he was seen as a threat - and even may have been. The appointment needed Redknapp on board, and had that been done, maybe we would have benefited from the motivational aspects that seem to be behind some of his success.

[benjii]

The quote from Adlington is:- "After hearing him speak, you felt like you could do anything." (After SCW addressed the swimming squad on the eve of the Games).

 

Its quite true that Lowe handled SCW's appointment at Saints very badly. It should have been made clear that he was not a threat to Redknapp, and as that wasn't done he was seen as a threat - and even may have been. The appointment needed Redknapp on board, and had that been done, maybe we would have benefited from the motivational aspects that seem to be behind some of his success.

 

I agree with that largely.

[jam]

The quote from Adlington is:- "After hearing him speak, you felt like you could do anything." (After SCW addressed the swimming squad on the eve of the Games).

 

Its quite true that Lowe handled SCW's appointment at Saints very badly. It should have been made clear that he was not a threat to Redknapp, and as that wasn't done he was seen as a threat - and even may have been. The appointment needed Redknapp on board, and had that been done, maybe we would have benefited from the motivational aspects that seem to be behind some of his success.

 

I agree with that largely.

 

But if Redknapp didn't want to work with Woodward, why did he take the job in the first place? After all, the whole world knew that he was on his way here.

[Legod Second Coming]

The quote from Adlington is:- "After hearing him speak, you felt like you could do anything." (After SCW addressed the swimming squad on the eve of the Games).

 

Its quite true that Lowe handled SCW's appointment at Saints very badly. It should have been made clear that he was not a threat to Redknapp, and as that wasn't done he was seen as a threat - and even may have been. The appointment needed Redknapp on board, and had that been done, maybe we would have benefited from the motivational aspects that seem to be behind some of his success.

 

And that's her crediting him with her success...mmm...

[hypochondriac]

But if Redknapp didn't want to work with Woodward, why did he take the job in the first place? After all, the whole world knew that he was on his way here.

 

To **** off Milan.

[TopGun]

I'd take the thoughts of SCW over Harry Redknapp at any occasion tbh.

[St Landrew]

I have to say that SCW was an appointment at the wrong time for Saints. Football is such a conservative sport, and has until recently had that, you can't teach us anything new, attitude. The thing is, if you're not making the most of what you have, then it's time to try something else. Unfortunately, the only thing more conservative than football itself are the supporters who follow it. I was very much on unstable ground in my pro opinion of SCW when he was appointed, especially when he had Harry Redknapp as Team Manager. Redknapp is definitely one of the older school IMO. SCW never stood a chance, and anyway, it was too radical an appointment at the time.

 

Rupert often steps over the boundaries. Whiich is why he has made quite a few big errors. But I have a grudging respect for his lack of respect for the old ways, and can sometimes see what he tries to do, even if I suspect he's doing it just to make money for the least cash input. And if this latest experiment of Dutch coaches and Total Football gets Saints climbing the ladder of success, I'll put a hat on and then doff it in his direction. I might even save another for Michael Wilde, even if he would barely deserve it.

Edited 12 August, 2008 by St Landrew

[Professor]

SCW never stood a chance, and anyway, it was too radical an appointment at the time.

 

Rupert often steps over the boundaries. Whiich is why he has made quite a few big errors. But I have a grudging respect for his lack of respect for the old ways, and can sometimes see what he tries to do, even if I suspect he's doing it just to make money for the least cash input. And if this latest experiment of Dutch coaches and Total Football gets Saints climbing the ladder of success, I'll put a hat on and then doff it in his direction. I might even save another for Michael Wilde, even if he would barely deserve it.

Hadn't seen the link before but the anology of SCW's appointment with the new coaching set-up, is interesting. On the money thing, its true that the club should be run economically in order to get maximum output from the affordable input but when SCW was brought in, as I recall that was a cost, not a saving. The question is, would that cost have paid a worthwhile return in performance and, if better handled at the time, the evidence suggests it could have.

[Capel Saint]

Quite agree. It was fairly bad timing with SCW appointment as it seemed they were trying to implement these new changes to the whole team where maybe it would have been better to let him use his abilities on the younger players, who at the time, seemed more open to his ideas. This way it wouldn't have stepped on Redcrapps toes with the first team and the more senior players who seemed to pour scorn on these ideas.

 

I thought it was a bold step and I could see there being some advantages in trying to improve players in areas not thought of before such as a more winning attitude. eg How Ferguson has instilled that in his teams at Man Utd.

 

Still, unfortunately we shall now never know if it would have been a success.

[John B]

Quite agree. It was fairly bad timing with SCW appointment as it seemed they were trying to implement these new changes to the whole team where maybe it would have been better to let him use his abilities on the younger players, who at the time, seemed more open to his ideas. This way it wouldn't have stepped on Redcrapps toes with the first team and the more senior players who seemed to pour scorn on these ideas.

 

I thought it was a bold step and I could see there being some advantages in trying to improve players in areas not thought of before such as a more winning attitude. eg How Ferguson has instilled that in his teams at Man Utd.

 

Still, unfortunately we shall now never know if it would have been a success.

 

Sir Clive has been successful in all his activities so I am certain he would have succeeded here

[Legod Second Coming]

Sir Clive has been successful in all his activities so I am certain he would have succeeded here

 

You didn't watch the Lions Tour then...

 

Sir Clive has a lot to offer sport - but I was also personally incredibly impressed by Chris Boardman this morning and his explanation of the science involved in cycling, which he is championing. Which goes to show, we could learn a great deal from a great many people.

[John B]

You didn't watch the Lions Tour then...

 

Sir Clive has a lot to offer sport - but I was also personally incredibly impressed by Chris Boardman this morning and his explanation of the science involved in cycling, which he is championing. Which goes to show, we could learn a great deal from a great many people.

 

 

No I did not watch the Lions Tour - The First Time since 1968 I was uninterested as we had little chance of winning because of the demands of Professional Rugby in Europe.

 

 

However I will be going to SA next summer to watch the Lions as it has always been my ambition to see the Lions in action

[Legod Second Coming]

No I did not watch the Lions Tour - The First Time since 1968 I was uninterested as we had little chance of winning because of the demands of Professional Rugby in Europe.

 

 

However I will be going to SA next summer to watch the Lions as it has always been my ambition to see the Lions in action

 

 

Ah man, you jammy so and so!!! You'll have a great time! And we might sneak a win this time!!!

[Doctoroncall]

No I did not watch the Lions Tour - The First Time since 1968 I was uninterested as we had little chance of winning because of the demands of Professional Rugby in Europe.

 

 

However I will be going to SA next summer to watch the Lions as it has always been my ambition to see the Lions in action

 

I was lucky to go last time and thoroughly enjoyed it. It was extra sweet as I was staying with a SA friend who was a rugby fanatic and we won the series for the first time in ages playing some great rugby. I'm sure you'll have a fantastic time.

 

On the SCW issue, I thought it was a bad time with what was happening at Saints, however when is a good time to introduce change? IMO, it's better to focus on how to impliment the change for a successfully transistion to where you want to go than to just let it happen naturally as seems the case at Saints. Bringing in a character like Clifford though was a joke - bad personal skills and a maverick who's happen to hit on a good idea.

[buctootim]

There appears to be a new section on the OS about the sports science and medical backroom team. I'm not sure if we've always had these people (apart from doctor and physio obviously) or whether its a new development.

 

http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/team/?page_id=9934

[SaintRobbie]

SCW was on a loser at Southampton because his appointment was by Rupert Lowe and many people who were against Lowe, automatically took against SCW. We will never know what he could have done for Saints, but it does seems that his skills do work outside of rugby, which was not thought possible by some Saints fans at the time.

 

I think that is spot on. Lowe simply does not breed confidence.

[Scummer]

There appears to be a new section on the OS about the sports science and medical backroom team. I'm not sure if we've always had these people (apart from doctor and physio obviously) or whether its a new development.

 

http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/team/?page_id=9934

 

It says for each of them how long they've been at the club. Most recent one joined last year, most of them have been at the club for a while.

[Wes Tender]

You didn't watch the Lions Tour then...

 

Sir Clive has a lot to offer sport - but I was also personally incredibly impressed by Chris Boardman this morning and his explanation of the science involved in cycling, which he is championing. Which goes to show, we could learn a great deal from a great many people.

 

Exactly. It didn't have to be SCW on a rumoured £300,000 a year. Where the point has been made that SCW is capable of crossing over disciplines, so the principle holds good across the board. The ability to motivate a football player ought to theoretically apply to any group of workers, be they sales people or management in industry or commerce or a car assembly plant team.

 

Therefore we could probably have employed a specialist consultant to do that job as and when required, without all the ructions that SCW caused. Mind you, I suspect that there was an element of Lowe's ego involved and he enjoyed having such a high profile name linked with the club for media purposes.

[Highfield Saint]

The SCW football experiment was never going to work when applied at a club level lower than the top tier of the premiership and most certainly not in the championship mainly due to the incredibly high turnover of playing staff.

 

It's different in international sport where you are guaranteed to have the long term opportunity to mould and shape impressionable athletes. At Saints anyone who he may have worked with was, on showing any real promise, destined to be sold.

 

If we had stayed in the prem or been promoted then who knows??

[Legod Second Coming]

Exactly. It didn't have to be SCW on a rumoured £300,000 a year. Where the point has been made that SCW is capable of crossing over disciplines, so the principle holds good across the board. The ability to motivate a football player ought to theoretically apply to any group of workers, be they sales people or management in industry or commerce or a car assembly plant team.

 

Therefore we could probably have employed a specialist consultant to do that job as and when required, without all the ructions that SCW caused. Mind you, I suspect that there was an element of Lowe's ego involved and he enjoyed having such a high profile name linked with the club for media purposes.

 

I like the fact that Adlington has been quoted as saying that when he spoke to them she believed she could do anything.

 

And this is then him 'being credited with her success'.

 

Well then, get him down here to tell me that I can win Olympic cycling gold on Friday of this week and let's see how I get on!!!

 

She had been training for 15-20 years before SCW got anywhere fecking near her.

 

He may well have given her some inspiration and if, at the turn, she recalled his words, then he undoubtedly added value but to credit him with her success is a bit rich.

[scooby]

When he was at Southampton there was view that it was not possible that a background in Rugby could be relevant to soccer.

 

Actually, old bean, that is incorrect. Those with vision, those who believe in football developing from the kick and rush days of the '70s and '80s, saw immediately that Lord Lowe's move to bring SCW to our club was startling in its brilliance.

 

Alas, it was the Northam, the flat caps, those regressives who through a haze of class conscious fear and hatred, lashed out at someone daring to come in and change things. A man who did not come through the boot room ranks and who didn't grow up on a council estate?! A man like that coming into our club?! No! Never.

 

Those 'fans' cost us, and we are still feeling the ramifications to this day.

[Wes Tender]

I like the fact that Adlington has been quoted as saying that when he spoke to them she believed she could do anything.

 

And this is then him 'being credited with her success'.

 

Well then, get him down here to tell me that I can win Olympic cycling gold on Friday of this week and let's see how I get on!!!

 

She had been training for 15-20 years before SCW got anywhere fecking near her.

 

He may well have given her some inspiration and if, at the turn, she recalled his words, then he undoubtedly added value but to credit him with her success is a bit rich.

 

Agreed again. The ability has to be there to begin with. In team disciplines there is also an element where the sum of the parts can be greater than the whole if the players all have a collective belief and will to win against opposition individually more illustrious, but collectively not attuned as a unit. But that team must have a belief that their aim is achievable to start with. If not, they are defeated before they begin.

 

Some achieve this motivational ability as managers of a sporting team, whereas others study it at university and become proficient in it as a science and the better proponents make a career of it acting as consultants. We have had our share of motivational managers historically and McMenemy and WGS were in that vein. The problem arises where you have somebody of the old school like Harry Redcrap, who was bound to feel that bringing in somebody as a motivator was a sideways swipe at his inability to do that aspect of the job himself.

[buctootim]

 

She had been training for 15-20 years before SCW got anywhere fecking near her.

 

He may well have given her some inspiration and if, at the turn, she recalled his words, then he undoubtedly added value but to credit him with her success is a bit rich.

 

I read once (I guess its true) that there are 10 people in the world who can run the 100m in less than 10seconds, 10,000 who can run it 10.2 and 1,000,000 who can do it in 10.5.

 

The point with sports scientists is not that they can turn anyone into athletes, but simply make the tiny difference between winner and also-ran.

[70's Mike]

Simple question if it was such a good idea to employ SCW , why has no top side around the world paid top dollar to get him on board

[buctootim]

Simple question if it was such a good idea to employ SCW ' date=' why has no top side around the world paid top dollar to get him on board[/quote']

 

Olympic team? England Rugby?

[70's Mike]

Olympic team? England Rugby?

 

top football club ? England Rugby ended in defeat

[Wes Tender]

Actually, old bean, that is incorrect. Those with vision, those who believe in football developing from the kick and rush days of the '70s and '80s, saw immediately that Lord Lowe's move to bring SCW to our club was startling in its brilliance.

 

Alas, it was the Northam, the flat caps, those regressives who through a haze of class conscious fear and hatred, lashed out at someone daring to come in and change things. A man who did not come through the boot room ranks and who didn't grow up on a council estate?! A man like that coming into our club?! No! Never.

 

Those 'fans' cost us, and we are still feeling the ramifications to this day.

 

Hello Scabby. I just knew that we could rely on you to brown nose Lowe whilst at the same time deriding anybody who dares to suggest that anything he ever did was anything short of genius.

 

And just to illustrate the lack of intelligence that your class rants contain, here is an excerpt from an article about flat caps. You see, every time you use this stupid analogy to illustrate your point that the flat cap is so working class, an image pops into my head of Prince Charles out on his estate.

 

"The labeling of the flat cap as purely 'working class' is problematic. Many landed gentry wore flat caps due to their practicality as they sufficiently keep rain and sun out of the eyes when shooting, it doubles as a handy rag and keeps the head warm from frequent chilly winds. Mather states, "A cloth cap is assumed in folk mythology to represent working class, but it also denotes upper class affecting casualness. So it is undoubtedly classless, and there lies its strength. A toff can be a bit of a chap as well without, as it were, losing face."

 

So stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

[aintforever]

The problem arises where you have somebody of the old school like Harry Redcrap, who was bound to feel that bringing in somebody as a motivator was a sideways swipe at his inability to do that aspect of the job himself.

 

But Redknapp has no problems motivating his pompey team, he also has no problems using sports science at pompey.

 

The problem with Redknapp at Saints was that HE was not motivated. Woodward was involved in the club when we hired Redknapp (according to Lundekvam) and it was Woodward who pursuaded Lowe to give him a new contract after relegation (according to Clifford). If Woodward is such a genius at motivation why couldn't he spot what many of us on here spotted with ease - Redknapp just didn't want to be here.

[sadoldgit]

Simple question if it was such a good idea to employ SCW ' date=' why has no top side around the world paid top dollar to get him on board[/quote']

 

He hasn't exactly been on the dole queue since has he? Perhaps he just got fed up with the reactionaires around in the football world? Who knows?

[dubai_phil]

So again, the unasked question.

 

Lowe returned with a PLAN, which he put into effect from his first day.

 

Did he dream it up himself or was it something that had been sown in his days with SCW? They spent a lot of time talking together before he came here, and as I have posted before, SCW's ORIGINAL brief was to work to help the Academy players make the final step up from U17 to first team level - a gap that exists at virtually every club.

 

SCW may be long gone but how much of the original concept and ideas has Lowe kept in his mind until the day he returned?

 

IMHO quite a lot

[Professor]

Agreed again. The ability has to be there to begin with. In team disciplines there is also an element where the sum of the parts can be greater than the whole if the players all have a collective belief and will to win against opposition individually more illustrious, but collectively not attuned as a unit. But that team must have a belief that their aim is achievable to start with. If not, they are defeated before they begin.

 

Some achieve this motivational ability as managers of a sporting team, whereas others study it at university and become proficient in it as a science and the better proponents make a career of it acting as consultants. We have had our share of motivational managers historically and McMenemy and WGS were in that vein. The problem arises where you have somebody of the old school like Harry Redcrap, who was bound to feel that bringing in somebody as a motivator was a sideways swipe at his inability to do that aspect of the job himself.

 

In one sense, Adlington did not actually beat the American, in fact when she saw the replay she said that she didn't think she had won. But the underwater picture showed she just touched the wall first by a fingertip. It was Adlington who credited SCW with giving her the belief she could do it, and that may be the point, that in any sport, football included, there are lots of good atheletes and good players, but sports science can just get that important little bit more out of them. Ultimately SFC, under Wilde, decided not to use SCW and given the impasse with Redknapp that was probably the right decision, but it could also have been a missed opportunity.

Just one other thought, whatever people think about SCW's involvement with Saints, at least it gave us some national attention. This week, most of the national press didn't even bother to report our result against Exeter.

[AndyNorthernSaints]

Actually, old bean, that is incorrect. Those with vision, those who believe in football developing from the kick and rush days of the '70s and '80s, saw immediately that Lord Lowe's move to bring SCW to our club was startling in its brilliance.

 

Alas, it was the Northam, the flat caps, those regressives who through a haze of class conscious fear and hatred, lashed out at someone daring to come in and change things. A man who did not come through the boot room ranks and who didn't grow up on a council estate?! A man like that coming into our club?! No! Never.

 

Those 'fans' cost us, and we are still feeling the ramifications to this day.

Some us remember the 70's and 80's watching some great football by Saints. I'd hardly call Paine, Channon, Ball, Williams, Armstrong, Holmes, Dennis, Golac, McCalliog, Osgood, Worthington, Wallaces, Case, Moran etc kick and rush football. Saints played one touch football which was beautifull to watch and made us one of the most exciting teams to watch.

[Wes Tender]

Just one other thought, whatever people think about SCW's involvement with Saints, at least it gave us some national attention. This week, most of the national press didn't even bother to report our result against Exeter.

 

Well, if we had lost, I'm sure that they would have jumped on it and told the World that SCW's influence on us had not managed to give us the self-belief to overcome a team well below us. They're much more motivated to give headlines to bad news rather than good.

 

Frankly, in our current parlous state, I'm much happier that we only get as much media attention as any other team in this division and that expectations of everybody outside the club are lower than they would be if he was still here. But looking at the backroom staff, we might not have SCW, but we still do have qualified sports scientists working with us.

[Totton Red]

Interesting report on SCW in The Times (12 Aug) about his role with the British Olympic Association. Rebecca Adlington has credited SCW with motivating her ahead of her swimming gold. Through his Elite Perfomance Service he is also working with a mixture of atheletes and competitors who are aiming at the 2012 Games. When he was at Southampton there was view that it was not possible that a background in Rugby could be relevant to soccer. The Times article says that SCW has always met resistance to his use of training methods drawn from across the sporting spectrum and from business. He seemed to meet that resistance here in the form of 'arry Redknapp.

People can cross sports, for example, Rebecca Romero, the olympic cyclist converted from being a silver medalist 4 years ago at rowing and is now world class at cycling.

SCW was on a loser at Southampton because his appointment was by Rupert Lowe and many people who were against Lowe, automatically took against SCW. We will never know what he could have done for Saints, but it does seems that his skills do work outside of rugby, which was not thought possible by some Saints fans at the time.

 

Like the fantasy!...RL could not man-manage the conflict of interest between SCW and Harry. To state that the power of the fans changed the focus is a little derogative to both RL and the supporters.

[Wes Tender]

Like the fantasy!...RL could not man-manage the conflict of interest between SCW and Harry. To state that the power of the fans changed the focus is a little derogative to both RL and the supporters.

 

Could this be the same argument trotted out that the fans changed the board's mind about employing Hoddle the second time around? Either we have more power to our elbow than we thought, or the board are weaker than they ought to be. I wonder which it is?

[Saint Bri]

Exactly. It didn't have to be SCW on a rumoured £300,000 a year. Where the point has been made that SCW is capable of crossing over disciplines, so the principle holds good across the board. The ability to motivate a football player ought to theoretically apply to any group of workers, be they sales people or management in industry or commerce or a car assembly plant team.

 

Therefore we could probably have employed a specialist consultant to do that job as and when required, without all the ructions that SCW caused. Mind you, I suspect that there was an element of Lowe's ego involved and he enjoyed having such a high profile name linked with the club for media purposes.

 

 

However, we were in the Premiership at the time and he is the best in his field in this country.

 

It really was an appointment that we as supporters should have been proud of and not sucked in by tabloid sensationalism and bluster

[Wes Tender]

However, we were in the Premiership at the time and he is the best in his field in this country.

 

It really was an appointment that we as supporters should have been proud of and not sucked in by tabloid sensationalism and bluster

 

He was the best in his field in the country? Not necessariy so at all. He might have been the one with the highest profile after the Rugby World Cup, but to say that he was the best in his field is stretching it. As I said, there are plenty of others who are probably better qualified who just quietly go about their business as paid consultants that most have never heard about and frankly I would have preferred one of those with the lowered profile in the media.

[Legod Second Coming]

I read once (I guess its true) that there are 10 people in the world who can run the 100m in less than 10seconds, 10,000 who can run it 10.2 and 1,000,000 who can do it in 10.5.

 

The point with sports scientists is not that they can turn anyone into athletes, but simply make the tiny difference between winner and also-ran.

 

 

I agree 100% but Woodward oversaw at best a few months of the girl's training - and probably none of it, since (according to recent radio interview) he has not yet spent any time with the Elite Performance Directors who already look after the squads (athletes, swimmers, rowers, etc).

 

Once again, however, the 'mythical' status surrounding him envelopes a winner who happens to have spent time in his company listening to him. Well, that is a skill - motivational speaking is a fantastic skill, no doubt.

 

But personally, I would like people on here to credit the swimming coaches and swimmers who have devoted the past 15-20 years of their lives to achieve this success, not a man who only arrived when all the work was done.

 

But hey, that's why you employ a publicist right...

[Scummer]

However, we were in the Premiership at the time and he is the best in his field in this country.

 

He joined in July 2005, we'd been relegated by then.

[Wes Tender]

I agree 100% but Woodward oversaw at best a few months of the girl's training - and probably none of it, since (according to recent radio interview) he has not yet spent any time with the Elite Performance Directors who already look after the squads (athletes, swimmers, rowers, etc).

 

Once again, however, the 'mythical' status surrounding him envelopes a winner who happens to have spent time in his company listening to him. Well, that is a skill - motivational speaking is a fantastic skill, no doubt.

 

But personally, I would like people on here to credit the swimming coaches and swimmers who have devoted the past 15-20 years of their lives to achieve this success, not a man who only arrived when all the work was done.

 

But hey, that's why you employ a publicist right...

 

Again, it shows that people on here are prepared to credit SCW with amazing powers of motivation doesn't it, just because he had some fleeting connection with us.

 

As you rightly point out, the vast majority of the credit goes to the girl for maintaining her focus for many years and the coaches who taught her. I am presuming that as well as being instructors, that they also have some powers of motivation. If not, then I have a simple solution.

 

Let SCW coach the coaches in motivational powers if they are lacking in them.

[rooney]

He joined in July 2005, we'd been relegated by then.

 

We were in the Premiership when SCW joined. I distinctly remember Rupert inviting him to Aston Villa on the first day of the season as his guest and he was appointed shortly after. I welcomed the appointment as I felt he had a lot to bring to the Table. Unfortunately it did not bring one iota of advantage and as you say, we were relegated.

[Scummer]

We were in the Premiership when SCW joined. I distinctly remember Rupert inviting him to Aston Villa on the first day of the season as his guest and he was appointed shortly after. I welcomed the appointment as I felt he had a lot to bring to the Table. Unfortunately it did not bring one iota of advantage and as you say, we were relegated.

 

He joined after the Lions tour, which didn't finish until July 9th 2005.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/s/southampton/4121186.stm

 

Our last game in the Premiership was on May 15th 2005. There was plenty of talk of him coming before then, but he didn't start working for us until after we were relegated.

[Guest Hacienda]

A good ideal that was badly timed and doomed to failure with HR at the helm.

[buctootim]

A good ideal that was badly timed and doomed to failure with HR at the helm.

Agree with that.

[rooney]

He joined after the Lions tour, which didn't finish until July 9th 2005.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/s/southampton/4121186.stm

 

Our last game in the Premiership was on May 15th 2005. There was plenty of talk of him coming before then, but he didn't start working for us until after we were relegated.

 

I cannot argue with that so thank you for the clarification. I must have had a senior moment when I posted!