benjii Posted 13 December, 2008 Share Posted 13 December, 2008 Simple question. We are getting progressively worse and have been doing so, bar one or two exceptions, since the third match of the season. We are one dimensional, incapable of varying our tactics, flacid and uninspiring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALWAYS_SFC Posted 13 December, 2008 Share Posted 13 December, 2008 Never have had from the start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy_Porter Posted 13 December, 2008 Share Posted 13 December, 2008 He should do the right thing and walk after this game, not his fault he's out of his depth but he should certainly know by now that he's not up to the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint lard Posted 13 December, 2008 Share Posted 13 December, 2008 I have given him time to prove himself,that time is now up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 13 December, 2008 Share Posted 13 December, 2008 This is just what I and many others expected. I cannot see this getting any better and who knows where the next goal is coming from? It's very sad but there's no pleasure in saying 'we told you so'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunrise Posted 13 December, 2008 Share Posted 13 December, 2008 No I don't, but he shouldn't have been brought here in the first place by Lowe. If JP does go(which I honestly think will not happen) then Lowe has to go too. Lowe and his board screwed us up with their crappy mangerial appointments and decisions(sacking Sturrock) that led to our relegation from the premier. This was followed by Wilde and board spunking our parachute payment on players with obscene wages(for the championship) that didn't really perform. Now it looks like another crappy Lowe and board managerial decision could send us to League 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 13 December, 2008 Share Posted 13 December, 2008 no ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chocco boxo Posted 13 December, 2008 Share Posted 13 December, 2008 wrong bloke at wrong time ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Wayman Posted 13 December, 2008 Share Posted 13 December, 2008 He was effing useless in The Netherlands and he is effing useless here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 13 December, 2008 Author Share Posted 13 December, 2008 http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/articles/article.php?page_id=11070 "For me it is very important that we are unbeaten for the rest of the month because then we will have done a good job". Good one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobM Posted 13 December, 2008 Share Posted 13 December, 2008 Yup. I can't think of many managers that would get more out of this terrible bunch of players. It's the players I've lost confidence in. I think JP is doing the right things and he obviously has a passion for the club, but the players are letting him down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mprobert Posted 13 December, 2008 Share Posted 13 December, 2008 Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALWAYS_SFC Posted 13 December, 2008 Share Posted 13 December, 2008 Yup. I can't think of many managers that would get more out of this terrible bunch of players. It's the players I've lost confidence in. I think JP is doing the right things and he obviously has a passion for the club, but the players are letting him down. He could actually have an alternative style/formation/plan but he persists with the one despite it not working over and over again. FFS Portvliet try something!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 13 December, 2008 Share Posted 13 December, 2008 Yes Why??????????? Even running a Tyro side you change formations if things are not working Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Marco Posted 13 December, 2008 Share Posted 13 December, 2008 No confidence at all. How can you score goals if you have nobody in the box? Their first two goals sounded like they had lots of people causing havoc in the box as we have no-one at all up there. Jan seems a nice guy but knows nothing at all about proffesional football especially in the modern era. Playing like that might get you somewhere in the Holland amateur division 4 but in the most competative league in the world your get no-where. Half of the season gone almost half are loses no more excuses time to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 13 December, 2008 Share Posted 13 December, 2008 No confidence at all. How can you score goals if you have nobody in the box? Their first two goals sounded like they had lots of people causing havoc in the box as we have no-one at all up there. Jan seems a nice guy but knows nothing at all about proffesional football especially in the modern era. Playing like that might get you somewhere in the Holland amateur division 4 but in the most competative league in the world your get no-where. Half of the season gone almost half are loses no more excuses time to go. agreed all Dutch sides play that way problem is no CCC sides do and we are a soft total football, passing side which will continue to get swamped as we pass ourselves into div one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 13 December, 2008 Share Posted 13 December, 2008 I don't anymore. Seems that he is stubornly sticking to plan A hoping it'll work. Good managers are able to work a system out that will suit his players, they don't continually try to hammer square pegs into round holes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mprobert Posted 13 December, 2008 Share Posted 13 December, 2008 Why??????????? Even running a Tyro side you change formations if things are not working Cos he's been brought in under very difficult circumstances, i.e no money and likely to lose any players that show any potential, to coach a bunch of young and very inexperienced players into a team that will, possibly next season, push onto the play-offs. How and why we got to that position is another story but we all have a view - mostly based on our passionate wish for Saints to be somewhere better rather than any knowledge of the background facts. The fact that many people who know the game think he's got the side playing really good football, and that until last week only Wolves have won more games away from home, are positives that might even go beyond what might be expected. One of the beauties of footy is that we all know better don't we - for example I should be playing for England (cricket as well) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeBenali Posted 13 December, 2008 Share Posted 13 December, 2008 He should do the right thing and walk after this game, not his fault he's out of his depth but he should certainly know by now that he's not up to the job. Thing is though, if he does walk, then Lowe will just place Wotte in charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 13 December, 2008 Share Posted 13 December, 2008 Cos he's been brought in under very difficult circumstances, i.e no money and likely to lose any players that show any potential, to coach a bunch of young and very inexperienced players into a team that will, possibly next season, push onto the play-offs. How and why we got to that position is another story but we all have a view - mostly based on our passionate wish for Saints to be somewhere better rather than any knowledge of the background facts. The fact that many people who know the game think he's got the side playing really good football, and that until last week only Wolves have won more games away from home, are positives that might even go beyond what might be expected. One of the beauties of footy is that we all know better don't we - for example I should be playing for England (cricket as well) And he has won one home game!!!!! look i feel sorry for the bloke because of the circumstances he has to work in BUT any decent coach/manager changes his tactics when things are not working Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bourno Posted 13 December, 2008 Share Posted 13 December, 2008 no, but I blame Lowe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowballs2 Posted 13 December, 2008 Share Posted 13 December, 2008 God the pro Lowes make me so sick...some idiot will come on here and try to justify whats happening, you cannot even justify it in financial terms, since, we will probably lose yet another 2000 "customers" at the next home game. Impossible to defend the indefencible. Lowe is killing this club, its a slow death by suffocation. To continue with this rediculous policy of youth and "total football " is suicide. Come on Wilde get him out now, then quit yourself. The ruination of the club is down to you and Lowe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobM Posted 13 December, 2008 Share Posted 13 December, 2008 He could actually have an alternative style/formation/plan but he persists with the one despite it not working over and over again. FFS Portvliet try something!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111 I think that can be proven untrue by the fact that in todays game, at half time, the changes he made and the talk he gave created a massive change in attitude and performance and so far has created 2 goals. And as I type this, we're battering their defence. I'd say that was a perfect example of JP trying something and making a positive change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALWAYS_SFC Posted 13 December, 2008 Share Posted 13 December, 2008 I think that can be proven untrue by the fact that in todays game, at half time, the changes he made and the talk he gave created a massive change in attitude and performance and so far has created 2 goals. And as I type this, we're battering their defence. I'd say that was a perfect example of JP trying something and making a positive change. What has he changed? Nothing really. They are just playing like the should of from the start so why did he not get them doing that in the first half? The attitude should be right from the start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobM Posted 13 December, 2008 Share Posted 13 December, 2008 What has he changed? Nothing really. They are just playing like the should of from the start so why did he not get them doing that in the first half? The attitude should be right from the start. You've just contradicted yourself. You said the way they are playing and attitude now should have been the way we played from the start, indicating a change in play and attitude. Who changed this? JP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALWAYS_SFC Posted 13 December, 2008 Share Posted 13 December, 2008 You've just contradicted yourself. You said the way they are playing and attitude now should have been the way we played from the start, indicating a change in play and attitude. Who changed this? JP. The players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Fan CaM Posted 13 December, 2008 Share Posted 13 December, 2008 No - the guy is way over his head and sinking further. Failed experiment once again by Lowe is a complete joke. Ask yourself whether on this seasons display would JP get another job in the league (any division) - I really don't think so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exit2 Posted 13 December, 2008 Share Posted 13 December, 2008 No tactics No Knowledge No Bottle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobM Posted 13 December, 2008 Share Posted 13 December, 2008 The players. Then you've just proven my original point right, it's not JP that is responsible it's the players. If they are able to change their attitude like this at half time, then they are responsible for their attitude at the start of the game. You can't have it both ways. JP can't be to blame for their attitude at the start but not at half time. If you say it's the players who are responsible for their attitude and the way they play, then they are responsible when they play badly as well as when they play well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALWAYS_SFC Posted 13 December, 2008 Share Posted 13 December, 2008 (edited) Then you've just proven my original point right, it's not JP that is responsible it's the players. If they are able to change their attitude like this at half time, then they are responsible for their attitude at the start of the game. You can't have it both ways. JP can't be to blame for their attitude at the start but not at half time. If you say it's the players who are responsible for their attitude and the way they play, then they are responsible when they play badly as well as when they play well. The system is the failure. We only play one way every time,we never change it IMO we get lucky sometimes and it works but not enough. I will not give any credit to a coach who sets up a team to be so easy. too fragile and easy to beat. Edited 13 December, 2008 by ALWAYS_SFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mack rill Posted 13 December, 2008 Share Posted 13 December, 2008 Yes he would of been IF! Lowe had of left him with a few wise heads to keep your promising youngsters fully focused and not panicking when under pressure. Todays match showed that when thy lost it in the fist 12 Min's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALWAYS_SFC Posted 13 December, 2008 Share Posted 13 December, 2008 Yes he would of been IF! Lowe had of left him with a few wise heads to keep your promising youngsters fully focused and not panicking when under pressure. Todays match showed that when thy lost it in the fist 12 Min's Please mind your own business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 13 December, 2008 Share Posted 13 December, 2008 You've just contradicted yourself. You said the way they are playing and attitude now should have been the way we played from the start, indicating a change in play and attitude. Who changed this? JP. why could he not get it right from the start. imo the come back is more to do with Burnley taking their foot of the gas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Marco Posted 13 December, 2008 Share Posted 13 December, 2008 Half the season gone half of those loses. 1 win at home. 1 win in 8 games. 22 points from a possible 69. Relying on other teams results already. Performances the worst i have ever seen. Tactics the worst i have ever seen, players the worst i have seen, manager the most clueless i have seen. To much of the season gone too many loses, doesn't learn his lessons, heading for relegation for sure with the system. Too many excuses time to go JAN OUT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Benali Posted 13 December, 2008 Share Posted 13 December, 2008 Half the season gone half of those loses. 1 win at home. 1 win in 8 games. 22 points from a possible 69. Relying on other teams results already. Performances the worst i have ever seen. Tactics the worst i have ever seen, players the worst i have seen, manager the most clueless i have seen. To much of the season gone too many loses, doesn't learn his lessons, heading for relegation for sure with the system. Too many excuses time to go JAN OUT Sums it up perfectly. Football is about winning games. He has had 6 months in charge and the results are the worst in our clubs history. How people can defend it is beyond me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted 13 December, 2008 Share Posted 13 December, 2008 Do you have any confidence in Lowe? Simple question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legod Third Coming Posted 13 December, 2008 Share Posted 13 December, 2008 Do you have any confidence in Lowe? Simple question. Ah, finally someone who can identify the difference between a cause and a symptom... And the answer is no. But what alternative do we have as fans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobM Posted 13 December, 2008 Share Posted 13 December, 2008 why could he not get it right from the start. imo the come back is more to do with Burnley taking their foot of the gas Since neither you or I were at the game, I'd say that's not a judgement we can make. From the sound of the commentary, they were still attacking hard in the 2nd half but we were performing better and were matching, if not bettering them. It's sad that fans cannot give any credit at all. I'm far from happy with the way this season is going, but I can give credit where it's due. JP and the players are responsible for the way we play. Today it sounded like the players were just not interested and let's all be honest, we know that JP wouldn't have told them to go out and play in a half-hearted manor or to play at 50% effort. If the players were putting in 100% effort but the system they were told to play was failing, then I'd blame JP. Even if they were playing at 100% but were being out muscled or out run due to bad player choices, then I'd blame JP. But if the players go out onto the pitch and not put 100% effort in, regardless of the system employed, then it's the players fault and the players who should be held responsible. They should be following orders with 100% effort. At half time whatever was said, whatever was changed, it made a positive impact and we came out and bettered them, scoring 2 goals. That should be given credit. Yes, the performance should have been better from the start, but at least it was changed at half time to improve things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 13 December, 2008 Share Posted 13 December, 2008 At half time whatever was said, whatever was changed, it made a positive impact and we came out and bettered them, scoring 2 goals. That should be given credit. Yes, the performance should have been better from the start, but at least it was changed at half time to improve things. 'Apart from that, Mrs Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play?' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 13 December, 2008 Share Posted 13 December, 2008 so he can give a half time talk but not a pre match talk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobM Posted 13 December, 2008 Share Posted 13 December, 2008 so he can give a half time talk but not a pre match talk Perhaps it's an attitude problem then? Perhaps the players sit up, take notice and buck their ideas and effort up once things start going wrong. As said, I don't believe JP tells them to go out and put less than 100% effort in at the start of the game and I don't believe he does much different at half time. Whether his words are taken to the pitch is another matter though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Jason Posted 13 December, 2008 Share Posted 13 December, 2008 Yup. I can't think of many managers that would get more out of this terrible bunch of players. It's the players I've lost confidence in. I think JP is doing the right things and he obviously has a passion for the club, but the players are letting him down. What do you mean "he obviously has passion for the club" why? He's been here 6 months, its passion for the club, its passion for his job. I'm not saying passion for his job is a bad thing just saying i don't believe its passion for the club! Back to the post, NO, i have no confidence in Jan, or Wotte, or Lowe, or Gore. IMO we (Lowe) made a huge mistake letting Pearson go. Again, only in my opinion, i do not believe that Pearson would be on more money than the Dutch trio, more like Lowe had a meeting with Pearson when Lowe realised that there was no way Pearson would take his medling!!! AIMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHAPEL END CHARLIE Posted 13 December, 2008 Share Posted 13 December, 2008 I see Nigel Pearson's Leicester City has another win today and they're sitting pretty in the lead of League One - despite no end of experts on here telling us how poor/average a manager he is and how we were lucky to see the back of him . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobM Posted 13 December, 2008 Share Posted 13 December, 2008 What do you mean "he obviously has passion for the club" why? The way he talks in interviews, body language and the fact he gives up his own time to sit in various pubs around the city and talk honestly with the fans are all good signs. Did you think Redknapp had a passion for Southampton? You can tell fairly easily if people truly care and to me, it was clear Redknapp didn't and it's clear JP does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Jason Posted 13 December, 2008 Share Posted 13 December, 2008 Yup. I can't think of many managers that would get more out of this terrible bunch of players. It's the players I've lost confidence in. I think JP is doing the right things and he obviously has a passion for the club, but the players are letting him down. Sorry topick on you again mate, but just something else about your post, you've "lost confidence in the players" these lads are as young as 17, they should of never been asked to take sole responsebility for the future of our club, THEY ARE NOT READY Any one with a pinch of footy knowledge would surely agree, yes play some kids, but you must have the balance between youth and old heads in the team otherwise you get............................................................................................Saints 2008-09 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mprobert Posted 13 December, 2008 Share Posted 13 December, 2008 I expect they're having the same playful banter on the Doncaster, Forest and Charlton forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobM Posted 13 December, 2008 Share Posted 13 December, 2008 Sorry topick on you again mate, but just something else about your post, you've "lost confidence in the players" these lads are as young as 17, they should of never been asked to take sole responsebility for the future of our club, THEY ARE NOT READY Any one with a pinch of footy knowledge would surely agree, yes play some kids, but you must have the balance between youth and old heads in the team otherwise you get............................................................................................Saints 2008-09 I agree entirely, absolutely no doubt at all! There is another thread about it not being JP's fault but Lowes and my thoughts on this sort of thing are in there. I agree 100% that we should not rely totally on teenagers and inexperience. My thoughts on who's fault this is and why are in the other thread But the end result is I do not believe they are up to it, the confidence I had at the start of the season is gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
team-saint Posted 13 December, 2008 Share Posted 13 December, 2008 I see Nigel Pearson's Leicester City has another win today and they're sitting pretty in the lead of League One - despite no end of experts on here telling us how poor/average a manager he is and how we were lucky to see the back of him . i dont think thats quite true. in fact only 3% of us wanted him to go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Jason Posted 13 December, 2008 Share Posted 13 December, 2008 Then you've just proven my original point right, it's not JP that is responsible it's the players. If they are able to change their attitude like this at half time, then they are responsible for their attitude at the start of the game. You can't have it both ways. JP can't be to blame for their attitude at the start but not at half time. If you say it's the players who are responsible for their attitude and the way they play, then they are responsible when they play badly as well as when they play well. me again, starting to look personal, it isn't, honestly! You could also use your exact argument against JP! JP must be to blame for the first half display aswell as the second half! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glkdcdes Posted 13 December, 2008 Share Posted 13 December, 2008 Simple question. We are getting progressively worse and have been doing so, bar one or two exceptions, since the third match of the season. We are one dimensional, incapable of varying our tactics, flacid and uninspiring. oh come on, hes not the problem. wrong question! its not to do with our coach, its only to do with a certain Mr Lowe. Focus............. leave our poor Poortvleit alone hes trying his best. Hows Pearson doing at Leicester by the way Lowe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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