Malaysia Airlines plane missing

[pap]

This is a long, but well put together piece.

 

http://21stcenturywire.com/2014/07/25/mh17-verdict-real-evidence-points-to-us-kiev-cover-up-of-failed-false-flag-attack/

[Saint in Paradise]

Oh dear I wonder how much longer this Russian soldier will live ?

 

A Russian soldier's goofy selfies posted online may have proved that his country's military is operating in eastern Ukraine illicitly.

 

Alexander "Sanya" Sotkin, 24, has posted photographs on Instagram of himself wearing a military uniform pulling faces and

appearing to sit in an armoured personnel carrier.

 

Unknown to him, his iPad automatically geotagged him with GPS coordinates, with Buzzfeed revealing that he was actually

in Ukraine on July 5.

 

Buzzfeed reported Sotkin was in the village of Krasna Derkul on the same day Ukraine reported mortar strikes on border positions.

 

Five days ago Sotkin posted another image in which he claimed to be inside a Buk missile launcher, the same piece of weaponry

believed to be responsible for the MH17 plane crash.

 

"Sitting around, working on a Buk, listening to music, basically a good Sunday," he wrote alongside images of him posing and flashing

a gang sign.

 

Buzzfeed writes that Instagram's geolocating tool is highly accurate.

 

Link with pictures

 

http://www.news.com.au/technology/online/russian-soldier-alexander-sotkin-posts-instagram-selfies-that-may-link-russian-military-to-ukraine/story-fnjwmwrh-1227009899938

 

 

Of course it could be a very clever fraud by the West ???

[buctootim]

The search for MH270 will start in September when ocean floor survey work of the search area is completed.

http://www.ibtimes.com/malaysia-airlines-search-update-australia-says-deep-sea-search-mh370-track-september-1645582

[Saint in Paradise]

Well according to a book about MH 370to be released in the next few days:-

 

Through a process of elimination, we were left with the uncomfortable and very tragic likelihood that

Zaharie - because of some personality disorder, depression or emotional breakdown - killed himself

and everyone on the aircraft deliberately."

 

The authors believe Zaharie probably shut his co-pilot, Fariq Hamid, out of the cockpit, then closed

off all communication and turned the aircraft around. He depressurised the aircraft and, once the cabin

crew and passengers' oxygen had run out, they died from hypoxia.

 

The book cites the fact that pilot suicide has killed hundreds of people in recent decades, and the authors

call for tighter scrutiny of pilot stress levels and more openness about mental health issues in the cockpit.

 

They are also critical of some Muslim countries' reluctance to acknowledge pilots' role in murder/suicide.**

 

"Muslims don't commit suicide seems to be the common refrain,"** says Taylor, deputy editor of the Waikato Times.

 

"Well, they do, and surely the travelling public deserve better than that."

 

- Waikato Times

 

http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/asia/10340542/Disturbed-pilot-took-MH370-passengers-to-ocean-grave-authors-claim

 

 

** I thought that Muslims used suicide bombers to kill people ????

 

.

[pap]

Oh dear I wonder how much longer this Russian soldier will live ?

 

A Russian soldier's goofy selfies posted online may have proved that his country's military is operating in eastern Ukraine illicitly.

 

Alexander "Sanya" Sotkin, 24, has posted photographs on Instagram of himself wearing a military uniform pulling faces and

appearing to sit in an armoured personnel carrier.

 

Unknown to him, his iPad automatically geotagged him with GPS coordinates, with Buzzfeed revealing that he was actually

in Ukraine on July 5.

 

Buzzfeed reported Sotkin was in the village of Krasna Derkul on the same day Ukraine reported mortar strikes on border positions.

 

Five days ago Sotkin posted another image in which he claimed to be inside a Buk missile launcher, the same piece of weaponry

believed to be responsible for the MH17 plane crash.

 

"Sitting around, working on a Buk, listening to music, basically a good Sunday," he wrote alongside images of him posing and flashing

a gang sign.

 

Buzzfeed writes that Instagram's geolocating tool is highly accurate.

 

Link with pictures

 

http://www.news.com.au/technology/online/russian-soldier-alexander-sotkin-posts-instagram-selfies-that-may-link-russian-military-to-ukraine/story-fnjwmwrh-1227009899938

 

 

Of course it could be a very clever fraud by the West ???

 

http://i100.independent.co.uk/article/no-this-instagram-photo-does-not-prove-the-russian-army-is-in-ukraine--lkcluiK4Mg

[JackFrost]

 

** I thought that Muslims used suicide bombers to kill people ????

 

.

 

Nope, that's extremists who twist whatever they believe to suit their own bloodthirsty agendas.

 

In Islam, suicide is considered one of the gravest sins because the belief is that the body should be treated as a temple.

 

Suicide bombers are thought to date back to the 11th century and were used in both WW2 and the Vietnam War. Islamic extremists didn't start using this tactic until the 1980s.

[buctootim]

Ukraine's security minister has claimed that the separatists intended to bring down a Russian airliner (with Russia's knowledge) to justify an invasion of Ukraine. Who knows what the truth is, but an interesting idea. I giuess its consistent with the allegations that the Moscow tower block bombs were an excuse to invade Chechnya.

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/nalyvaychenko-said-that-separatists-intended-to-shoot-down-russian-passenger-plane-359765.html

[pap]

Preliminary report on MH17 by the Dutch:-

 

http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2014/sep/09/mh17-dutch-investigators-verdict-on-crash-over-ukraine-live-updates

 

Video:-

 

 

Flight MH17 broke up in mid-air as a result of structural damage caused by “a large number of high-energy objects that penetrated the aircraft from outside “ according to the Dutch investigators preliminary report.

 

Sounds like "bullets" to my layman ears.

[so22saint]

 

Sounds like "bullets" to my layman ears.

 

Nah, missile warheads either contain shrapnel or are designed to fragment into high speed bits of metal so it could still be a SAM or an air to air missile.

 

or it could be bullets

 

or aliens

[pap]

Nah, missile warheads either contain shrapnel or are designed to fragment into high speed bits of metal so it could still be a SAM or an air to air missile.

 

or it could be bullets

 

or aliens

 

The choice of language and the mere fact that we're speculating about this speaks volumes. Shouldn't we have a more prescriptive explanation than "high energy objects" at this point?

[Picard]

Bullets = round holes

Shrapnel = irregular holes

(to my layman's mind)

[buctootim]

Bullets = round holes

Shrapnel = irregular holes

(to my layman's mind)

 

Quite. The idea of a fighter using bullets to shoot down a plane is quaint. It hasnt been 1942 for quite a while.

Edited 9 September, 2014 by buctootim

[pap]

Bullets = round holes

Shrapnel = irregular holes

(to my layman's mind)

 

You could have both.

 

http://www.anderweltonline.com/wissenschaft-und-technik/luftfahrt-2014/shocking-analysis-of-the-shooting-down-of-malaysian-mh17/

http://www.anderweltonline.com/fileadmin/user_upload/PDF/Cockpit-MH017.pdf

 

For that to be true though, a modern fighter jet would need to be equipped with air-to-air missiles and some kind of cannon.

 

Hasn't been true since 1942, apparently *

 

* Fun quiz for military fans: How many fighter jets in active service lack any kind of ballistic ordnance whatsoever? I have a "friend" that could benefit from the information.

[Saint in Paradise]

The head of a major international airlines has criticised the Australian-led mission to find Malaysia Airlines flight MH370,

saying he believes the aircraft was always under control and may not be in the southern Indian Ocean.

 

Emirates Airline head Tim Clark has thrown doubt on the official line that the aircraft, which had 239 people

on board when it disappeared in March, flew south on autopilot for five hours until it ran out of fuel and

plummeted into the water.

 

"MH370 was, in my opinion, under control, probably until the very end," Mr Clark said in an interview

with with German magazine Der Spiegel.

 

"Our experience tells us that in water incidents, where the aircraft has gone down, there is always

something. We have not seen a single thing that suggests categorically that this aircraft is where

they say it is, apart from this so-called electronic satellite "handshake," which I question as well."

 

 

http://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/world/mh370-emirates-airlines-head-tim-clark-says-missing-plane-was-under-control-probably-until-the-very-end/ar-BB8CVDD

 

.

[JackFrost]

[Lighthouse]

I will almost guarantee that is a fake. At that range it would blatantly obvious you are looking at a commercial airliner, the two of them are barely half a mile apart.

[Lorne Malvo]

 

Logo in wrong place?

[buctootim]

Logo in wrong place?

 

The whole image looks tampered with. Im no aeronautics engineer but Im pretty sure the left and right halves of a plane are supposed to be symmetrical and the left engine should be pointing forward.

[Verbal]

Bellingcat, the open-source 'citizen investigative journalists' who recently triangulated the exact location of James Foley's murder, have carried out this succinct and persuasive dismissal of the supposed shoot-down image as fakery.

 

https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2014/11/14/russian-state-television-shares-fake-images-of-mh17-being-attacked/

 

The claim on Russian state TV that it was sourced from Wikileaks is (unsurprisingly) false.

[Lighthouse]

The entire left wing is wonky, as if it has been bent backwards a few degrees. Which is weird because if you were going to make a fake photo, why alter the shape of the plane.

[saintbletch]

I will almost guarantee that is a fake. At that range it would blatantly obvious you are looking at a commercial airliner, the two of them are barely half a mile apart.

 

I think the Russian / pro-Russian rebel contention would be that it was deliberately targeted for propaganda purposes.

[Lighthouse]

I think the Russian / pro-Russian rebel contention would be that it was deliberately targeted for propaganda purposes.

 

You would think so but I don't see what the Ukrainians would gain from a deliberate shoot down. I know it would rouse some anti-Russian feelings but with nothing proven, all we've got is speculation and mud slinging by the respective governments. Nothing worth murdering a couple of hundred innocent civilians over.

 

I'm sure you and most people outside of Russia already know that.

[swannymere]

Flying to Oz next month with Malaysia on an A380, that's 551 in economy when it goes down.

[saintbletch]

You would think so but I don't see what the Ukrainians would gain from a deliberate shoot down. I know it would rouse some anti-Russian feelings but with nothing proven, all we've got is speculation and mud slinging by the respective governments. Nothing worth murdering a couple of hundred innocent civilians over.

 

I'm sure you and most people outside of Russia already know that.

 

I'd agree with your general point, but IF mother-Russia was behind this (and to be honest it does appear a little amateurish for a state-led conspiracy - pap to The Lounge please!), then all they need is enough muddying of the waters, so that back home it appears as a credible possibility.

 

As to your point that the Ukrainians would gain nothing from deliberately shooting down the plane. I'm not so sure. Firstly, I should say that I don't believe they did. Secondly, if memory serves the West weighed-in more heavily with sanctions against Russia following the downing of the plane, and Russia's involvement in the conflict has been given greater attention since.

 

So I'd say that Ukraine 'benefited' from the downing of the plane, if you'll forgive the suggestion.

 

What I find amazing is that if, as we believe, Russia had some hand in the flight being shot down - albeit maybe 'only' perhaps supplying the hardware, then I'm surprised this didn't escalate further than it did.

 

Western citizens were killed in the incident, and yet Russia apparently still maintains its stance.

 

It just shows how impotent diplomacy is, when the object of your diplomatic ire doesn't give a ****.

[badgerx16]

 

* Fun quiz for military fans: How many fighter jets in active service lack any kind of ballistic ordnance whatsoever? I have a "friend" that could benefit from the information.

Although not 'current', the F4 Phantom went into service without guns, it only used missiles. The US found out the hard way that this severely limited it's capabilities in dogfights with North Vietnamese MIGs.

Edited 17 November, 2014 by badgerx16

[melmacian_saint]

The logo in that image is in the wrong place because they used a top view of a Boeing 767 as the Malaysian plane in there rather than the ill-fated Boeing 777. Which is why the distance between the front and the logo is smaller.

 

Obviously fake.

[Lorne Malvo]

Flying to Oz next month with Malaysia on an A380, that's 551 in economy when it goes down.

 

I have flown with them four times since this happened. Nothing wrong with them, and due to the public not wanting to go on them, plenty of space to get a row to sleep on as I haven't been on one which isn't close to being full.

 

Its not like these planes have fallen out of the sky due to mechanical troubles, in fact I bet their planes get checked over a bit more thoroughly now.

 

And they have a huge sale..might see what I can pick up.

[pap]

I'd agree with your general point, but IF mother-Russia was behind this (and to be honest it does appear a little amateurish for a state-led conspiracy - pap to The Lounge please!), then all they need is enough muddying of the waters, so that back home it appears as a credible possibility.

 

As to your point that the Ukrainians would gain nothing from deliberately shooting down the plane. I'm not so sure. Firstly, I should say that I don't believe they did. Secondly, if memory serves the West weighed-in more heavily with sanctions against Russia following the downing of the plane, and Russia's involvement in the conflict has been given greater attention since.

 

So I'd say that Ukraine 'benefited' from the downing of the plane, if you'll forgive the suggestion.

 

What I find amazing is that if, as we believe, Russia had some hand in the flight being shot down - albeit maybe 'only' perhaps supplying the hardware, then I'm surprised this didn't escalate further than it did.

 

Western citizens were killed in the incident, and yet Russia apparently still maintains its stance.

 

It just shows how impotent diplomacy is, when the object of your diplomatic ire doesn't give a ****.

 

On the point about what does Ukraine have to gain:-

 

Russia effectively rolled into Crimea, and after much international furore, the international public slowly stopped giving a fúck.

 

Think I've said similar before, but if you ever wanted a tangible example of international concern, I can't really think of a more relevant one for the public than a commercial airliner. Duly, the world renewed its interest in Ukraine, Putin (and by extension) was made to look like at worst, a belligerent - and at best, an incompetent with no control over the pro-Russian rebels. Additional actions like sanctions, etc, were both justified and taken, all based on nowt more than social media, despite the US saying they had hard evidence proving that pro-Russian rebels were responsible.

 

This video has been posted before. If the US have the evidence they claim to have, they can sink this Russian evidence in a single shot.

 

 

Over to you, colonial cousins.

[ART]

Flight MH370 was 'hacked and shot down by US Air Force' claims former airline boss

 

Not far from what the majority on here felt what happened. Australia was obviously the red herring to ensure nothing was found.

 

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/flight-mh370-hacked-shot-down-4851909

[Lighthouse]

Flight MH370 was 'hacked and shot down by US Air Force' claims former airline boss

 

Not far from what the majority on here felt what happened. Australia was obviously the red herring to ensure nothing was found.

 

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/flight-mh370-hacked-shot-down-4851909

 

Have you been on those mushrooms again ART?

 

'Remotely hijacked' what a load of horse sh*t, you can't remotely control a commercial airliner nor did anyone think that was the case. That article is nonsense. For a start most fire extinguishers on aircraft are halon, which may well float if an extinguisher was dropped in water. Also the toilet extinguisher is the only one I can think of which would automatically discharge.

 

Also, why would the US military shoot down a plan over the Indian Ocean (then deny all knowledge)? It wouldn't have enough fuel to get within 5,000 miles of the US main land. If it were possible to 'remotely hijack' an airliner you would do it near the US mainland and target a big city, not some remote military airbase with minimal staff and media exposure.

Edited 22 December, 2014 by Lighthouse

[Window Cleaner]

Have you been on those mushrooms again ART?

 

'Remotely hijacked' what a load of horse sh*t, you can't remotely control a commercial airliner nor did anyone think that was the case. That article is nonsense. For a start most fire extinguishers on aircraft are halon, which may well float if an extinguisher was dropped in water. Also the toilet extinguisher is the only one I can think of which would automatically discharge.

 

Ahh who knows, who knows. Perhaps the Yanks were testing their new laser canon and farked up, impressive piece of weaponry by all accounts. Extremely effective and at about a dollar a shot (not counting the billions on R+D of course) a handy piece of hardware.

 

Edited 22 December, 2014 by Window Cleaner

[ART]

Maybe folk are forgetting part of the cargo the plane was carrying which the Americans didn't want to get into the hands of the Chinese. The mere fact there were sightings and that search of that part of the Indian Ocean has been forbidden gives this theory credible foundation.

[Lighthouse]

So the Malaysians (world famous for their state of the art military hardware) have developed something so important that the Americans would murder a couple of hundred innocent civilians to prevent it from going to China. Yet at the same time it is so unimportant that the Chinese stuck it in the cargo hold of a passenger plane, rather than a top secret military flight of their own. Yeah, that makes perfect sense.

 

I completely missed the part where searching for the wreckage somewhere has been forbidden. Got a link? I don't get why anyone would spend tens of millions looking for the plane elsewhere if they knew full well it was in some forbidden area.

[Saint in Paradise]

The story goes that the Taliban stole some secret equipment and sold it to the Chinese who were

trying to hide it in plain site by using a commercial airliner.They also thought the U.S. wouldn't think

that they ( Chinese ) would try that option.

 

Yes it is very possible to remote control a suitably modified aircraft especially IF the pilots are "indisposed".

 

Remember also that aircraft have and extensively use the "autopilot" ( basically remote control ) in fact

some airlines insist on its use as much as possible hence the concern that pilots are not getting enough

actual "hands on" flying experience.

 

As for believing this whole MH370 story ? Well the more I read the more I am now unsure about what really

happened but I do think that us plebs will perhaps never end up knowing the full truth.

[hutch]

Sometimes when you haven't got the faintest idea what you're talking about, it's best just not to post anything.

[Marsdinho]

So the Malaysians (world famous for their state of the art military hardware) have developed something so important that the Americans would murder a couple of hundred innocent civilians to prevent it from going to China. Yet at the same time it is so unimportant that the Chinese stuck it in the cargo hold of a passenger plane, rather than a top secret military flight of their own. Yeah, that makes perfect sense.

 

I completely missed the part where searching for the wreckage somewhere has been forbidden. Got a link? I don't get why anyone would spend tens of millions looking for the plane elsewhere if they knew full well it was in some forbidden area.

 

Maybe it wasn't hardware at all, maybe it was information / knowledge.

 

Think back to the end of WW2, if the Russians wanted to hamper The West's efforts to create an atomic bomb, all they had to do was down a plane / sink a boat that was taking the rocket and aeronautic scientists to America.

 

Also, I'm no expert on remote controlling a passenger plane, so all my info is gleamed from the internet (could be good, could be bad) but this is Boeing Patent for the Boeing Honeywell Uninterruptible Autopilot, filed in 2003. 11 years ago.

 

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=7142971.PN.&OS=PN/7142971&RS=PN/7142971

[aintforever]

I'm not one for conspiracy theories but the lack of wreckage is getting increasingly odd. It's obviously a large area where it could have come down but surely something would have shown up by now?

 

I don't see any reason to doubt the INMARSAT information though, the science seems to hold up and they seem transparent enough about how they got the info and worked it out.

[Saint_Abroad]

 

Think back to the end of WW2, if the Russians wanted to hamper The West's efforts to create an atomic bomb, all they had to do was down a plane / sink a boat that was taking the rocket and aeronautic scientists to America.

 

There were thousands of scientists working on the Manhattan project.

 

What happen to thinking aliens did this stuff? Conspiracy theorists have become boring. I miss the days when you could blame aliens!

[Lighthouse]

The story goes that the Taliban stole some secret equipment and sold it to the Chinese who were

trying to hide it in plain site by using a commercial airliner.They also thought the U.S. wouldn't think

that they ( Chinese ) would try that option.

 

Yes it is very possible to remote control a suitably modified aircraft especially IF the pilots are "indisposed".

 

Remember also that aircraft have and extensively use the "autopilot" ( basically remote control ) in fact

some airlines insist on its use as much as possible hence the concern that pilots are not getting enough

actual "hands on" flying experience.

 

As for believing this whole MH370 story ? Well the more I read the more I am now unsure about what really

happened but I do think that us plebs will perhaps never end up knowing the full truth.

 

I fly Boeings for a living, there is no technology on board any of their planes which could be used as a remote control. All the autopilot does if follow the pilots commands, whether it be headings, altitudes, speeds or a pre determined route in the flight management computer.

 

There is no way Al Qa'ida have developed the technology to over ride and manually fly a 777 from it's existing route into an American military building hundreds of miles away. Even less likely that they then managed to get it through security at a major international airport, spend several days installing it into a 777 without anyone noticing then expect it to all work perfectly without anyone noticing.

 

To also incapacitate the pilot would require hijacking a plane and getting through security at a major international airport. Even if you are successful in all of that, you have hijacked a plane... so why would you then need to pilot it remotely.

 

All of this just sounds massively implausible to me. I know people love to think governments are all run by evil masterminds who think of cunning and ingenious ways to murder innocent people and make it look like the enemy but this is too far fetched.

[Lighthouse]

Double post

Edited 23 December, 2014 by Lighthouse

[Marsdinho]

There were thousands of scientists working on the Manhattan project.

 

What happen to thinking aliens did this stuff? Conspiracy theorists have become boring. I miss the days when you could blame aliens!

 

There were thousands eventually.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-33707445

[ART]

Definitely from a Boeing 777. The wreckage has now arrived in France for verification, whilst a suitcase and other remains washed ashore have been sent for DNA testing.

 

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/08/01/uk-malaysia-airlines-crash-idUKKCN0Q62WR20150801

[Saint in Paradise]

I

 

 

I know people love to think governments are all run by evil masterminds who think of cunning and ingenious ways to murder innocent people and make it look like the enemy but this is too far fetched.

 

I have to say that whatever really happened it has resulted in a great loss of life which is very sad and upsetting for the relatives.:(

 

 

However a conspiracy theory is much more exciting and fun than the real truth which can be very boring for those without any personal connections

[JackFrost]

Confirmed the debris is part of the missing plane

[Lighthouse]

Given that it's the only 777 ever to have crashed into the ocean I don't think that was ever really in doubt.

 

Will be interesting to see what, if anything, they can learn from this. Possibly the attitude at which the plane hit the water if there is structural damage to it but probably not a lot else.

[buctootim]

Given that it's the only 777 ever to have crashed into the ocean I don't think that was ever really in doubt.

 

Will be interesting to see what, if anything, they can learn from this. Possibly the attitude at which the plane hit the water if there is structural damage to it but probably not a lot else.

 

I saw one report that reckoned they would probably be able to tell whether it was a controlled ditching or a falling out of the sky. Presumably because the flaperons would be down in a ditching and exposed to the full force of the water.

[Whitey Grandad]

I saw one report that reckoned they would probably be able to tell whether it was a controlled ditching or a falling out of the sky. Presumably because the flaperons would be down in a ditching and exposed to the full force of the water.

 

To do with extreme flutter under certain situations, apparently.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

It looks like this mysterious incident is set to become one of those legendary 'Mary Celeste' like events that may never be satisfactorily exlained:

 

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/mh370-search-likely-to-wrap-up-in-december-428756/

 

The sea sometimes keeps its secrets ....