More UKIP bother

[pap]

So your proposing the removal of tax on alcohol and cigarettes for example?

 

Theoretically, I'm proposing that you put some meat on the bones of your ideas.

 

Practically, I can see that you're asking questions to which I've already given the answer to. Twice.

[TwoPints]

Well you either have a flat rate of income tax for all with the abolition of the many other taxes imposed on us, whereby the government loses the ability to affect behaviour through taxation, ie reducing smoking, alcohol consumption, saving for retirement etc, or you don't. You can't have it both ways. As soon as you start putting limits on how much someone can save on their pension without paying tax the 'flat rate' is skewed, and it would be skewed in favour of those at the top of the pile.

[pap]

Well you either have a flat rate of income tax for all with the abolition of the many other taxes imposed on us, whereby the government loses the ability to affect behaviour through taxation, ie reducing smoking, alcohol consumption, saving for retirement etc, or you don't. You can't have it both ways. As soon as you start putting limits on how much someone can save on their pension without paying tax the 'flat rate' is skewed, and it would be skewed in favour of those at the top of the pile.

 

So now you're arguing that the government should have power to affect an individual's behaviour?

 

I'd disagree. Governments are there to ensure the integrity of the realm, not to fleece money from people with addiction problems.

 

How many governments in your living memory would you say have the moral right to tell you how to live?

[TwoPints]

So now you're arguing that the government should have power to affect an individual's behaviour?

 

I'd disagree. Governments are there to ensure the integrity of the realm, not to fleece money from people with addiction problems.

 

How many governments in your living memory would you say have the moral right to tell you how to live?

 

That's odd, I thought you'd just suggested that your plan might need modifying to put more meat on the bones when I asked about tax on alcohol and cigarettes. Apart from raising awareness **** loads of money those taxes are designed to modify behaviour, as was the extra tax on leaded petrol, as is lower car tax for low polluting cars. The government is there to govern and you vote for the party that you hope will make things better and sometimes that is achieved through higher taxes on certain things and tax breaks on others. Addiction is only one area that needs help, long term savings is another, pollution reduction is another. There are plenty to choose from.

[pap]

That's odd, I thought you'd just suggested that your plan might need modifying to put more meat on the bones when I asked about tax on alcohol and cigarettes. Apart from raising awareness **** loads of money those taxes are designed to modify behaviour, as was the extra tax on leaded petrol, as is lower car tax for low polluting cars. The government is there to govern and you vote for the party that you hope will make things better and sometimes that is achieved through higher taxes on certain things and tax breaks on others. Addiction is only one area that needs help, long term savings is another, pollution reduction is another. There are plenty to choose from.

 

It'd be nice to get an answer to one of my points.

 

"How many governments in your living memory would you say have the moral right to tell you how to live?"

[TwoPints]

They all have and they all do so. They do so through legislation, taxation and education. It is naive to think that any government has allowed people behave as they like.

[pap]

They all have and they all do so. They do so through legislation, taxation and education. It is naive to think that any government has allowed people behave as they like.

 

This is where we differ then; I've seen nothing but banditry in Parliament and the slow transfer of power into non-democratic structures such as private industry. They've done little but sell the national legacy to private interests, Labour governments included.

 

They're collectively a f**king disgrace and have nothing to teach me about being a person.

[TwoPints]

This is where we differ then; I've seen nothing but banditry in Parliament and the slow transfer of power into non-democratic structures such as private industry. They've done little but sell the national legacy to private interests, Labour governments included.

 

They're collectively a f**king disgrace and have nothing to teach me about being a person.

 

Well I'm certainly not disagreeing with any of that.

[Window Cleaner]

UKIP is a party that attracts racists in droves.

 

 

Probably, it is also a party (like our FN) that attracts people who see their lives being diminished in some way by the EU in particular and mass immigration in general. The FN is running at 20%+ in France, several major towns are now controlled by their local branches after the last round of municipal elections. Unemployment is over 4 million, people haven't had pay rises for years, about a third of the population are on minimum wage and receive a meagre 7/9 ths of that due to savage social charges. They blame it, rightly or wrongly on the EEC because in their sometimes uneducated view the EEC has taken all major control from the government who just re-arrange the deckchairs on the resultant Titanic.

[pap]

Bit of a bunfight going on up here. One of the local Labour councillors has allegedly conducted a homophobic campaign against an openly gay Liberal Democrat.

 

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/liverpool-liberal-councillor-steve-radford-7122909

 

I presume that this means the Labour Party are all homophobes now?

[Bearsy]

Bit of a bumfight going on up here.

 

[pap]

 

Bear; I have made you a badge in honour of you bringing this important matter to our attention.

 

Wear it with pride.

 

 

Everyone else; sorry for OT - Bear started it.

[Bearsy]

Sweet! Can you make it small for my avatar pls!

[Verbal]

Probably, it is also a party (like our FN) that attracts people who see their lives being diminished in some way by the EU in particular and mass immigration in general. The FN is running at 20%+ in France, several major towns are now controlled by their local branches after the last round of municipal elections. Unemployment is over 4 million, people haven't had pay rises for years, about a third of the population are on minimum wage and receive a meagre 7/9 ths of that due to savage social charges. They blame it, rightly or wrongly on the EEC because in their sometimes uneducated view the EEC has taken all major control from the government who just re-arrange the deckchairs on the resultant Titanic.

 

1. The EEC ceased to exist in 1993.

 

2. Claiming the FN is equivalent to UKIP underscores my point. FN are vicious, vile racists.

 

3. "Rightly or wrongly"? Why pander to this crap?

[ecuk268]

Another one comes out of the woodwork:

 

UKIP's small business spokesman and election candidate is prosecuted for employing 7 illegal immigrants in his restaurant.

 

The word "hypocrisy" comes to mind.

[pap]

Another one comes out of the woodwork:

 

UKIP's small business spokesman and election candidate is prosecuted for employing 7 illegal immigrants in his restaurant.

 

The word "hypocrisy" comes to mind.

 

Why?

 

He's not using EU citizens

[solentstars]

Not surprised the party's full of people on the make .

 

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

[buctootim]

Not surprised the party's full of people on the make .

 

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

 

No no. UKIP are breath of fresh air and honesty who tell it like it is......apparently

[Lord Duckhunter]

Not surprised the party's full of people on the make .

 

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

 

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/liberal-democrat-mps-expenses/8508349/David-Laws-suspended-over-pages-of-expenses-claims.html

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-25492017

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/conservative-mps-expenses/10817533/MP-claims-for-sympathy-cards-to-send-out-when-constituents-die.html

[buctootim]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/liberal-democrat-mps-expenses/8508349/David-Laws-suspended-over-pages-of-expenses-claims.html

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-25492017

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/conservative-mps-expenses/10817533/MP-claims-for-sympathy-cards-to-send-out-when-constituents-die.html

 

Absolutely. The point is UKIP are like them, not different and honest and trustworthy.

[KelvinsRightGlove]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/liberal-democrat-mps-expenses/8508349/David-Laws-suspended-over-pages-of-expenses-claims.html

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-25492017

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/conservative-mps-expenses/10817533/MP-claims-for-sympathy-cards-to-send-out-when-constituents-die.html

 

 

Christ Lord D, are you actually Farage?

 

 

Yes, other politicians are on the take.

 

The point being, UKIP are meant to be different, or so they tell us. All this anti-establishment nonsense, or as posters earlier in this thread said, a point against the "pigs in the trough" politician.

 

So with UKIP also on the take (Farage milking millions from the EU that he opposes so much), tell me how they are different from the others then?

[Lord Duckhunter]

I presume your going to be able to back up this claim of Nigel " milking millions from the EU". I look forward to the evidence of this prior to casting my vote.

[bridge too far]

I presume your going to be able to back up this claim of Nigel " milking millions from the EU". I look forward to the evidence of this prior to casting my vote.

 

Sadly I don't think you'll be able to examine the evidence as Mr Farage has 'reverse ferretted' on his promise to have his expenses audited. Contained in his interview with LBC. All the papers are running with this but I've chosen the Guardian clip as it excludes all the adverts fronting the other versions

 

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/may/16/nigel-farage-ukip-car-crash-radio-interview-lbc

[KelvinsRightGlove]

I presume your going to be able to back up this claim of Nigel " milking millions from the EU". I look forward to the evidence of this prior to casting my vote.

 

It's pretty obvious isn't it?

 

He is an MEP, that has the amongst the worst attendance rates in the parliament. Does he not take his wages for when he doesn't show up?

 

Why does he employ his wife, despite saying he nor his party would employ family members (you know, to differentiate them from other parties, which you've already proved they aren't any different from).

 

And why has he gone back on his statement that he would submit to a full audit, or even rejected undergoing one similar to which Labour MEP's are subject to?

 

Show me some other parties that have done it though, 'cause that will prove UKIPs USP, how different they are from the establishment/political class etc etc.

[KelvinsRightGlove]

Sadly I don't think you'll be able to examine the evidence as Mr Farage has 'reverse ferretted' on his promise to have his expenses audited. Contained in his interview with LBC. All the papers are running with this but I've chosen the Guardian clip as it excludes all the adverts fronting the other versions

 

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/may/16/nigel-farage-ukip-car-crash-radio-interview-lbc

 

This interview is utterly hilarious.

 

"I'm uncomfortable with people speaking other languages on the train" "Don't your wife and children speak German?".

 

"too many kids in schools speak English as a second language" "english is your kids second language"

 

"All parties have idiots" "Aren't you meant to be different from other parties?"

 

"I'm not racist, look at the time I had all the black people on stage with me"

 

 

It's so funny watching him squirm

 

*Obviously, this is paraphrasing, not direct quotes.

[solentstars]

Sadly I don't think you'll be able to examine the evidence as Mr Farage has 'reverse ferretted' on his promise to have his expenses audited. Contained in his interview with LBC. All the papers are running with this but I've chosen the Guardian clip as it excludes all the adverts fronting the other versions

 

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/may/16/nigel-farage-ukip-car-crash-radio-interview-lbc

ah but the fruit loops of ukip are full of s hit when it comes to the new messiah who will take them to the promised land lol. in reality its just a party full of reactionarty former consertives who want us to return to a dream land world of the 1950s who hate the modern liberal consertive party.a party where the loopy deputy ukip leader nuttall...you could not make that name up wants us to pay for nhs care ( ANYONE GOT £30.OOO spare for a hip operation ) while i expect he would get a pay off by being on one of these private companys...some moral;s that.

[Lord Duckhunter]

It's pretty obvious isn't it?

 

He is an MEP, that has the amongst the worst attendance rates in the parliament. Does he not take his wages for when he doesn't show up?

 

.

 

His voting record in the EU is better then Clegg's in Westminster, should Clegg take his wages?

 

Do you know the difference between expenses and an allowance?

 

Can you break down the "millions" that he's "milked"? You posted that he "milked millions", please clarify how he "milked" the money .

[TwoPints]

Do you know the difference between expenses and an allowance?

 

I do ... Expenses are where (in theory) you have to have spent something whilst doing your job for which you can claim expenses. An allowance is where you're given s hit loads of cash but you don't actually have to do anything for it!

[pap]

Can we change the thread title to "More (and more) UKIP bashing" please, mods?

 

Entirely justified on the content.

[Lord Duckhunter]

I do ... Expenses are where (in theory) you have to have spent something whilst doing your job for which you can claim expenses. An allowance is where you're given s hit loads of cash but you don't actually have to do anything for it!

 

Correct, people should bare this in mind when throwing around comments like "milking the system".

 

Hopefully,we'll soon get a breakdown on the "millions" Nigel has "milked", and we can discuss further.

[TwoPints]

Correct, people should bare this in mind when throwing around comments like "milking the system".

 

Hopefully,we'll soon get a breakdown on the "millions" Nigel has "milked", and we can discuss further.

 

Well they are milking the system aren't they as they openly admit that they don't attend and/or vote against everything in an attempt to disrupt the European parliament yet they continue to claim their 'allowance'.

[Verbal]

Can we change the thread title to "More (and more) UKIP bashing" please, mods?

 

Entirely justified on the content.

 

You'd only want the thread title changed if you were lamentably gullible enough to believe UKIP's party line when defending the indefensible - that they're being ganged up on by those horrid, nasty, conspiring media people.

 

UKIP's spinners don't believe it themselves. In the face of the sheer volume of UKIP clowns being exposed, it's all that pathetic lot have by way of a defence. Which isn't much, to put it mildly. But all they can hope is that someone - anyone - is dumb enough to buy it. In that at least, they're right - there'll always be someone.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Well they are milking the system aren't they as they openly admit that they don't attend and/or vote against everything in an attempt to disrupt the European parliament yet they continue to claim their 'allowance'.

 

lets stick to the facts shall we. UKIP Mep's voting record is 66.17%, with Stuart Agnew having a 90.9% voting record. To put that into context, cleggys voting record at Westminster is 22%.

 

So, I repeat. The claim made was that Nigel was "milking millions". How are these "millions" broken down, and in what way is he " milking " the system?

 

 

Are you seriously trying to say that having a voting record twice as high as Cleggys, that Nigel is not entittled to legitimate allowences from the EU? , and also that these allowances add up to "millions" ?

 

It appears to me that your definition of "milking the system" is having the audacity to have different political views then you. Is Cleggy "milking" the Westminster system?

[bridge too far]

Whilst in no way supporting Clegg, I think it's fair to say that Ministers of State (and that would include the Deputy PM) never do have good voting records because they're invariably involved in matters of state / overseas trips / high level meetings.

[moonraker]

Voting records, milking the system et al is not the issue, the issue is that UKIP is nothing more than a protest party, it will do well in these Euro elections but as its profile and representation increases its shallowness and foundations of sand will be its undoing. The one good outcome is that the mainstream political parties might, just might, wake up and realise that they are representatives of the people not our leaders!

[pap]

You'd only want the thread title changed if you were lamentably gullible enough to believe UKIP's party line when defending the indefensible - that they're being ganged up on by those horrid, nasty, conspiring media people.

 

UKIP's spinners don't believe it themselves. In the face of the sheer volume of UKIP clowns being exposed, it's all that pathetic lot have by way of a defence. Which isn't much, to put it mildly. But all they can hope is that someone - anyone - is dumb enough to buy it. In that at least, they're right - there'll always be someone.

 

You are of course, to be commended for your latest round of junior arithmetic. On this occasion, like so many others, both the answer and working out are incorrect.

 

Even if you didn't read or hear anything UKIP have to say, the level of coverage this party is receiving is staggering, only matched by the hypocrisy on the other side.

 

"Wah! Nige isn't spending his allowance on EU matters!"

"Wah! Some bloke who said Muslims should undergo some kind of loyalty test back in 2006 says the same things now (when we specifically target and cajole him".

"Wah! This one party member is racist/homophobic/something-else-I-don't like. This means all of them are"

 

I must confess, I haven't gotten around to looking at the "UKIP is being targeted by media" theory, largely due to all the practical examples I've seen lately.

 

John Denham had the right of it; this kind of negative campaigning, the wholesale labelling of "racist", etc, is going to spectacularly backfire. A lot of people are thinking of voting UKIP. Calling UKIP racist is like calling the prospective voter racist. In a handful of cases, that'll undoubtedly be true. In most others, it'll almost certainly be wrong and the surest way you can deliver them to Farage and co.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Whilst in no way supporting Clegg, I think it's fair to say that Ministers of State (and that would include the Deputy PM) never do have good voting records because they're invariably involved in matters of state / overseas trips / high level meetings.

 

Gordon brown 14%

 

Charles Kennedy 31.2%

 

Claire short 12.6%

 

George Galloway 10.09%

 

Are all these people " milking " the system.

 

Posters on here have claimed that Nigel is " milking millions" yet when asked to explain don't seem able or capable of doing so. Just throwing accusations around doesn't make it true.

[ecuk268]

The latest UKIP looney is Mr Gordon Ferguson who is standing for election in Southport.

 

According to Mr F:

 

"The Lib-Lab-Cons have conspired with a foreign power, the EU, and are all thereby guilty of treason. They have sold Britain, which is the fifth largest economy, illegally into increasing slavery inside the EU dictatorship. Those responsible should be hung by the neck until dead"

 

But, he says this is unlikely to happen because;

 

“As likely as not, however, they will never be brought to account because our senior police, Crown Prosecution Service and judges are almost all exclusively freemasons, and Britain’s courts have been utterly corrupt for many years. They are almost all in the pocket of the EU."

 

Asked whether he thought his rivals’ voters should also hang, Mr Ferguson said: “If that is the law of the land, that should apply.” The decision is for judges, not him he added.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/10839448/My-rivals-should-be-hanged-for-treason-says-Ukip-candidate.html

[badgerx16]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27492711

 

"Arguments followed between the demonstrators and Mr McKenzie, a candidate in Thursday's council elections in Croydon."

 

"He added: "Croydon is unsafe and a dump.""

 

At least he's honest !

[pap]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27492711

 

"Arguments followed between the demonstrators and Mr McKenzie, a candidate in Thursday's council elections in Croydon."

 

"He added: "Croydon is unsafe and a dump.""

 

At least he's honest !

 

I'm not sure if this post is vitriolic and sensationalist enough for the UKIP bashing thread

 

Have you got a picture of him wearing a Nazi uniform, or something?

[trousers]

http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/nigel-farage-and-the-fury-of-the-elites/15045#.U3x9LvldUrU

 

Try as I might, I cannot remember a time when Britain’s various elites were as united in fury as they are now over UKIP leader Nigel Farage. In the run-up to this week’s Euro-elections, in which the Eurosceptic UKIP is expected to do well, leaders of every hue, from the true blue to the deep red, and hacks of every persuasion, from the right to the right-on, are as one on the issue of Farage. FromNick Clegg to the Twitterati that normally gets off on mocking Nick Clegg, from David Cameron to radical student leaders who normally hate David Cameron, fury with Farage has united all. It has brought together usually scrapping sections of the political and media classes into a centre-ground mush of contempt for UKIP. Not even Nick Griffin – who is a far nastier character than Farage – attracted such unstinting universal ire. What’s up with this Farage fury?

It’s everywhere. You can’t switch on the internet or open a newspaper without being greeted by news reports or op-eds on what a contemptible character Farage is. From the Guardian to the Sun, a paper you might once have expected to be sympathetic to a Eurosceptic politician yet which now brands some of Farage’s comments as ‘racism, pure and simple’, Farage-bashing is thriving. Even right-leaning broadsheet papers, including the supposed newspaper of record, The Times, have of late devoted themselves myopically to exposing the idiocies of Farage and his minions. Many of The Times’ stories about UKIP’s foot-in-mouth incidents are leaked to it by a devoted team of UKIP-watchers at Conservative Party HQ. Which means, yes, we now have politicians too cowardly to state their opposition to UKIP openly and a media so compliant, and also so politically influential, that they are more than happy to do one party’s bidding against another – especially if the other is the apparently terrifying UKIP.

Where Govephobia (an allergy to every comment uttered by Conservative education secretary Michael Gove) only unites the old public-sector left andGuardianistas, and anti-Jeremy Clarkson sentiment largely only brings together the time-rich Twitterati and members of the commentariat with 800 words to file pronto, anti-Farage fury is a great deal more far-reaching. It touches all politicians; it invades every dinner party in the land; it freaks out Tory snot and radical leftist alike; it is de rigueur everywhere from the horsey shires to the leftish Twitterverse.

What’s it all about? It can’t simply be down to the arguments Farage espouses. Take immigration. Loads of political and media types are illiberal on immigration, favouring strict border controls. Indeed, it was Labour, whose supporters in the media choke on their macchiatos whenever Farage mentions the word ‘Romanian’, which took the unusual step of keeping certain Romanians and Bulgarians out of Britain when those two nations joined the EU in January 2007. This instantly turned Romanians and Bulgarians into the second-class citizens of Europe, who did not enjoy the same freedom of movement as Poles and others who had joined the EU in the 2000s. It takes politics to a new low for Labour leaders and Labour-leaning commentators to gasp in horror when Farage says something dumb about Romanians moving in next door, considering it was their party which for seven years physically and legally prevented Romanians from moving in next door. Or consider Farage’s Brussels-bashing, his angst with the EU oligarchy. Lots of people share this view, or a variant of it. spiked is anti-EU, but thoroughly pro-Europe, on the basis that the EU is an anti-democratic behemoth which treats European voters with contempt. Others think similarly. So it can’t be Farage’s Euroscepticism that makes him such a figure of hate for pretty much every politician and observer in the land. What is it, then?

The real motor to the anti-Farage outlook, the fuel to this unprecedented fury of the elites, is a powerful feeling that he has connected with the public, or a significant section of it, in a way that mainstream politicians and observers have utterly failed to. The elites see in Farage their own inability to understand the populace or to speak to it in a language it understands. They see in his popularity – his oh-so-stubborn popularity, so notably undented by the daily furious outpourings of the anti-Farage elites – their own failure to swing public attitudes in what they consider to be the ‘right’ direction. That Farage’s popularity in the polls has remained pretty high even as our elites have been attacking him on a daily basis fills them not only with fury but with fear: their arguments seem not to have much traction outside the Westminster bubble, outside of medialand, where despite their best efforts the awkward, annoying little people still remain fairly favourable towards a loudmouth politician who isn’t PC and drinks beer. The fury behind the attacks on Farage is really a fury with the throng, with the masses, whose brains have clearly been made so mushy by UKIP propaganda that even the supposedly enlightened arguments and policies of their betters can now make no impact. It isn’t Farage they hate – it’s ordinary people, and more importantly their own palpable inability to make inroads into those people’s hearts or minds.

[trousers]

[video=youtube_share;9xLbcIianBg]http://youtu.be/9xLbcIianBg

[KelvinsRightGlove]

A white man putting on a Jamaican accent to support a party that want to stop the nasty foreigners coming over here and sending this country to the dogs.

 

What could possibly go wrong.

 

[pap]

A white man putting on a Jamaican accent to support a party that want to stop the nasty foreigners coming over here and sending this country to the dogs.

 

What could possibly go wrong.

 

 

If nothing else, it proves that you can have life after Radio 1.

 

Not much of a life, but there you go.

[trousers]

[video=youtube_share;lep6XIVPevk]

[moonraker]

UKIPs latest Party Political Broadcast is brilliant

 

[Clapham Saint]

Are there any UKIP spokespeople, other than Farage himself, who don't come across as idiots?

[CB Saint]

Are there any UKIP spokespeople, other than Farage himself, who don't come across as idiots?

 

We have been crying out for a party which isnt jammed packed with careerist PPE grads. Now we have one.

[Saintandy666]

We have been crying out for a party which isnt jammed packed with careerist PPE grads. Now we have one.

 

Farage is exactly of the same background. He went to public school. He is not some man of the people.

[moonraker]

There nothing different about Farage he's a f**cking banker. While I am thoroughly fed up with career politicians they are preferable to most of the representatives of UKIP I have seen, they are mostly little Englanders, narrow minded bigots, thick middle class wanabees or barly disguised racists. They often fall at the first fence and quote ridiculous and unverifiable statistics from the Daily Fail book of facts. We need new politicians who are competent and educated, don't look to UKIP for them.