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http://foreverwestham.com/2014/06/blog-topics/southamptons-mass-exodus-is-a-lesson-for-west-ham

 

Thought this was a well balanced and interesting read from a WHU fan.

 

Hard to take any article seriously when it contains lines like... "they are facing an almost certain relegation battle in the upcoming season".

 

It appears he (like a number of Saints fans on this forum) isn't going to wait and see which players Ronald Koeman brings in before writing Saints off for the season.

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Hard to take any article seriously when it contains lines like... "they are facing an almost certain relegation battle in the upcoming season".

 

It appears he (like a number of Saints fans on this forum) isn't going to wait and see which players Ronald Koeman brings in before writing Saints off for the season.

Until we reach 40 points I always consider us to be in a relegation battle.

 

Thought the article was pretty fair actually.

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Thought it was generally a well-considered article overall. I don't agree that Saints will automatically be in a relegation battle - it is a risk but then again it depends on who we bring in. However, you have to bear in mind that fans of other clubs only have the press to go on and if you believe the rubbish coming out of the Mirror we aren't signing any players and all of the replacements will come from the academy. We'll still have a good core of Boruc, Clyne, Chambers, Fonte, Cork, VW, S Davis, JWP and when fit, J Rod. Add a new GK, 1 CB if DL stays, 2 if he goes, a LB 2 x wide/players and 2 strikers and this core can be built on. Obvuiously the club wanted to use the original £35m to build on the existing squad but we are where we are and Koeman has a wonderful opportunity to build a quality squad plus graduated introductions from the academy such as McQueen, Stephens and Sims as and when ready.

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Hard to take any article seriously when it contains lines like... "they are facing an almost certain relegation battle in the upcoming season".

 

It appears he (like a number of Saints fans on this forum) isn't going to wait and see which players Ronald Koeman brings in before writing Saints off for the season.

I think its a few people like you who are rather naive to think that the coming season will be a bit of a rocky ride. It doesn't matter who Ronald brings in, it is the sheer quantity needed that will mean that it will be very difficult to get everyone firing together from the start of the season. We already had a paper thin squad in terms of numbers and backup and now with the departures so far (Lambert, Lallana, Shaw and Guly) and with JRod out till December in all probability, we barely have enough players for a match day squad. I don't believe we will be relegated in the end, but have serious concern that things may not look all that great come December/January. In some ways its a shame that we have a reasonably easy start to the season, because those are the games where we should be picking up hatfuls of points, but it coincides with us having to gell a large number of new players and probably using a completely new system as well. If you want to carry on with your head in the sand attitude thats fine, but your optimism seems misplaced, and that is how it seems to others as well. I hope you're right and I'm wrong.

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They should be building on their hard-earned success of the past few years and improving further; instead they are facing an almost certain relegation battle in the upcoming season.

 

I ceased to take this idiot seriously when he arrived at this conclusion, presumably based on his assumption that if we spent the mega wonga received for the departing players on replacements, they would obviously fall well sort of the players they replaced. Plus for some reason he doesn't factor into the equation the possibility that might well have replaced a good manager with an even better one. Add in the line that the best players we could possibly buy with that money were the ones we were selling and one can only conclude that he is a sandwich short of a picnic.

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Do you feel this is true for all PL teams?
It was a fairly flippant remark but maybe 80% or so will be looking for the safety zone. We seem to have arrived at a point where just a few teams can aspire to great things. The rest tend to be looking over their shoulders.
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I ceased to take this idiot seriously when he arrived at this conclusion, presumably based on his assumption that if we spent the mega wonga received for the departing players on replacements, they would obviously fall well sort of the players they replaced. Plus for some reason he doesn't factor into the equation the possibility that might well have replaced a good manager with an even better one. Add in the line that the best players we could possibly buy with that money were the ones we were selling and one can only conclude that he is a sandwich short of a picnic.

 

I dunno. In the space of just over 6 months we have lost our chairman, manager, almost the entire coaching staff, key attacking midfielder, talisman striker and England international fullback. Our best defender has handed in a request and best central midfielder looks like leaving as well.

 

We could spend the money wisely and improve but I would bite your hand off for a 17th place finish right now.

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I think its a few people like you who are rather naive to think that the coming season will be a bit of a rocky ride. It doesn't matter who Ronald brings in, it is the sheer quantity needed that will mean that it will be very difficult to get everyone firing together from the start of the season. We already had a paper thin squad in terms of numbers and backup and now with the departures so far (Lambert, Lallana, Shaw and Guly) and with JRod out till December in all probability, we barely have enough players for a match day squad. I don't believe we will be relegated in the end, but have serious concern that things may not look all that great come December/January. In some ways its a shame that we have a reasonably easy start to the season, because those are the games where we should be picking up hatfuls of points, but it coincides with us having to gell a large number of new players and probably using a completely new system as well. If you want to carry on with your head in the sand attitude thats fine, but your optimism seems misplaced, and that is how it seems to others as well. I hope you're right and I'm wrong.

It doesn't matter who Koeman brings in? So if we bought Messi, Ronaldo and Bite 'em Suarez, we would still be in for a rocky ride?

 

The sale of these players will give the club sufficient funds to buy good cover in more depth for the paper thin squad you talk about us having last season, so it is a problem that can be resolved by selling them. And the number of players we might have to blood is not as many as Liverpool or Manchester United will be adding to their squads, but presumably they won't be flirting with relegation because of it? Some players take a while to gel with their team mates and others fit in almost right away. We have a new manager, but that isn't a rare problem for teams these days, more the norm. Again, some produce instant results and others take some time to make an impact. Spurs are in a similar position to us with a new manager and having signed several players to replace Bale last year and wishing to add more of ours this season. Do we have dire forecasts of their relegation prospects?

 

And it is great to see that anybody who shows a little optimism is labelled as having their head in the sand. This rather smacks to me of the parallel where the so-called liberal intelligentsia state that anybody who doesn't agree with them must be a bit thick.

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I ceased to take this idiot seriously when he arrived at this conclusion, presumably based on his assumption that if we spent the mega wonga received for the departing players on replacements, they would obviously fall well sort of the players they replaced. Plus for some reason he doesn't factor into the equation the possibility that might well have replaced a good manager with an even better one. Add in the line that the best players we could possibly buy with that money were the ones we were selling and one can only conclude that he is a sandwich short of a picnic.

 

I think you're blind optimism is misplaced.. we potentially need to replace our best 5 players and hope that a Dutch manager can rebuild with quality and introduce his own ideas.

I think we will struggle to score goals and that is a recipe for a relegation battle.

Hope I'm wrong but am expecting a struggle this season.

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we potentially need to replace our best 5 players and hope that a Dutch manager can rebuild with quality and introduce his own ideas.

I think we will struggle to score goals and that is a recipe for a relegation battle.

 

We struggled for goals in many games last season, lacked options upfront, relied too much on Lallana for creativity and tended to fade in the second half - and didnt do too badly.

 

Its a shame about some of the departures, but Im excited to see how the new team will look and perform

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Don't think it is idiotic

 

If another club lost its entire strike force, manager and coaching staff, top full back, best centre back and midfielder

 

We would predict a very tough season for them

 

Taken in isolation, yes, we might. But the circumstances here are hardly the run of the mill situation that pertain to most clubs, are they? Our talismanic striker came from the third division for £1 million, our key midfielder and our top full back came though our academy, the manager and coaching staff all came in together as a unit, as will their replacements. What is this entire strike force you talk about? Rodriguez is still here, isn't he? Guly? Osvaldo? Sharp?

 

In view of the exceptional circumstances that we sold those players for vastly inflated prices and have wealthy ownership who have pledged to give our well-regarded new manager all of the money to re-invest in their replacements, there might be cause for the more pessimistic worriers to be concerned, but there is no reason at this juncture to believe that there is no upside to the situation, and that things could actually turn out for the better.

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We struggled for goals in many games last season, lacked options upfront, relied too much on Lallana for creativity and tended to fade in the second half - and didnt do too badly.

 

Its a shame about some of the departures, but Im excited to see how the new team will look and perform[/quote

 

Yes, never a dull moment at St Marys and it could well be a positive outcome. Just don't think we should write off opinions to the contrary as idiotic.

I hope Koeman can bring more than one way of playing to the table next season as we need to vary tactics within a match which I did not see last season.

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I think you're blind optimism is misplaced.. we potentially need to replace our best 5 players and hope that a Dutch manager can rebuild with quality and introduce his own ideas.

I think we will struggle to score goals and that is a recipe for a relegation battle.

Hope I'm wrong but am expecting a struggle this season.

 

Head in the sand, blind, misplaced optimism? Or ability to see the wider picture within the boundaries of greater perspectives, beyond the more limited imagination of those who only see doom and gloom?

 

What is the significance of our new manager being Dutch? He speaks better English than the last one who had never managed in the PL before. Man Utd's manager is Dutch too. Anybody questioning his credentials, ideas or ability?

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Head in the sand, blind, misplaced optimism? Or ability to see the wider picture within the boundaries of greater perspectives, beyond the more limited imagination of those who only see doom and gloom?

 

What is the significance of our new manager being Dutch? He speaks better English than the last one who had never managed in the PL before. Man Utd's manager is Dutch too. Anybody questioning his credentials, ideas or ability?

 

Nothing meant by it at all, but if we lose Lovren/Schneiderlin in the next couple of weeks, any new manager is going to struggle. Remember we had a thin squad last season so adding 6/7 new players and integrating them into the Koeman way will be a major challenge.

I can understand neutral fans thinking we will struggle.

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Don't think it is idiotic

 

If another club lost its entire strike force, manager and coaching staff, top full back, best centre back and midfielder

 

We would predict a very tough season for them

 

I'd still wait and see who the replacements were before saying...

 

"they are facing an almost certain relegation battle in the upcoming season"

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Don't think it is idiotic

 

If another club lost its entire strike force, manager and coaching staff, top full back, best centre back and midfielder

 

We would predict a very tough season for them

 

St Charlie and his other pessimistic bed-wetting fans would. The reasonable ones would wait and see who came in before they made such knee jerk reaction.

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It was a fairly flippant remark but maybe 80% or so will be looking for the safety zone. We seem to have arrived at a point where just a few teams can aspire to great things. The rest tend to be looking over their shoulders.

 

Frustratingly, I can see your point! Looking at someone like West Brom, who I believe the year before last had a high finish and then we all saw where they ended up last year and who we appointed now.

 

I do however feel that our owners and the people running the club are a bit savvier than those running the teams like West Brom and Swansea and hope that we can at least hold our position and potentially do what teams like Everton and up until recently, of course) Fulham did and occasionally break into Europe!

Edited by Beckenham Saint
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St Charlie and his other pessimistic bed-wetting fans would. The reasonable ones would wait and see who came in before they made such knee jerk reaction.

 

I haven't predicted where we come in the league, although think there is very little chance of bettering last season (would have been hard enough anyway).

 

I think its fair enough to say it will be a tough season though, but that doesnt mean we won't do well.

 

Sometimes on here realism comes across as overly pessimistic. The thread I did saying we would lose 5 first team stars looks like it will be proven right, so surely that is realistic rather than pessimistic?

 

Are those saying players will leave any worse than the ones that kid themselves they were all going to stay?

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St Charlie and his other pessimistic bed-wetting fans would. The reasonable ones would wait and see who came in before they made such knee jerk reaction.

 

Just saying what many would suggest if this was happening to say, west ham

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http://foreverwestham.com/2014/06/blog-topics/southamptons-mass-exodus-is-a-lesson-for-west-ham

 

Thought this was a well balanced and interesting read from a WHU fan.

 

Blimey mate you must have an awful lot of spare time on your hands. Not happy with starting your own doom and gloom posts anymore you have to Google the internet to find doom and gllom from other fans. As yet it is not a mass exodus although I accpet some more players could leave. I dont know where he got JRod going with England if he had been fit because he clearly wasnt (who would he have gone instead of?). Nit picking aside, no one player or manager is bigger than the club and replacements wil come in. No one knows at this moment how they will fare but it isnt out of the realsm of possibility that we could do better than last year. Koeman could more up his sleeve than the high pressing game and he could bring in players who will score the goals that seem to dry up for us the longer the season went on. We arent the first club to lose players to bigger clubs and we wont be the last. We were lucky to have the quality in the squad to take us from Div 1 to the Premieship but now, not surprisingly, a number of these players want to take advantage of the fact that they are now sought after by bigger clubs. We have a new manager and will have new players to look forward too. It is going to be a very very long summer if you and your chums paw over every last nuance of players leaving to better their careers. Longer still if you drag up every utterance from people who support other clubs.

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I haven't predicted where we come in the league, although think there is very little chance of bettering last season (would have been hard enough anyway).

 

I think its fair enough to say it will be a tough season though, but that doesnt mean we won't do well.

 

Sometimes on here realism comes across as overly pessimistic. The thread I did saying we would lose 5 first team stars looks like it will be proven right, so surely that is realistic rather than pessimistic?

 

Are those saying players will leave any worse than the ones that kid themselves they were all going to stay?

 

It was always going to be a tough season to follow if Pochettino, Shaw, Lallana and Lambert had stayed. More and more managers were working out how to play against Pochettinos style. We needed to sign new players but given the Osvaldo debacle there is no guarantee that any new players would improve the squad.

 

There is realism and their is pessimism. You seem to dwell in the oh dear category rather than looking at the positives. We could actually end up with a better manager than Pochettino and a better squad you know.

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Blimey mate you must have an awful lot of spare time on your hands. Not happy with starting your own doom and gloom posts anymore you have to Google the internet to find doom and gllom from other fans. As yet it is not a mass exodus although I accpet some more players could leave. I dont know where he got JRod going with England if he had been fit because he clearly wasnt (who would he have gone instead of?). Nit picking aside, no one player or manager is bigger than the club and replacements wil come in. No one knows at this moment how they will fare but it isnt out of the realsm of possibility that we could do better than last year. Koeman could more up his sleeve than the high pressing game and he could bring in players who will score the goals that seem to dry up for us the longer the season went on. We arent the first club to lose players to bigger clubs and we wont be the last. We were lucky to have the quality in the squad to take us from Div 1 to the Premieship but now, not surprisingly, a number of these players want to take advantage of the fact that they are now sought after by bigger clubs. We have a new manager and will have new players to look forward too. It is going to be a very very long summer if you and your chums paw over every last nuance of players leaving to better their careers. Longer still if you drag up every utterance from people who support other clubs.

 

It came up on Newsnow Southampton.

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What is this entire strike force you talk about? Rodriguez is still here, isn't he? Guly? Osvaldo? Sharp?.

 

Whilst I agree with you, the bit above is a bit ropey. JRod is out until December, Guy HAS left, Osvaldo won't play for us again and Sharp won't play for us again in the League.

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Whilst I agree with you, the bit above is a bit ropey. JRod is out until December, Guy HAS left, Osvaldo won't play for us again and Sharp won't play for us again in the League.

 

Precisely. Apart from Lambert, this was a problem that needed addressing anyway, regardless of any sales of other players. Lambert was rumoured to be off under Pochettino, but got a stay of execution because Pochettino cocked-up royally by bringing in the temperamental Osvaldo. Rodrigues may well be back before December, possibly as early as September, but would have needed back-up regardless of the sales of these other players too. Guly was never good enough at this level, so that many potential strikers brought in with monies received from Shaw and Lallana would offer a probable improvement.

 

The point is that effectively we only realistically had the ageing Lambert and the injured Rodriguez as a decent strike force Rodriguez will recover fully with luck, and we will probably improve on Lambert with Pelle or such like. Beyond that, we will have enough cash to buy in a further striker or two, plus Gallagher to give us much better quality and depth than we had with Guly and Sharp.

 

As for whether we would get better strikers through Pochettino's contacts or Koeman's, my vote goes to Koeman's.

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Lambert, rodriguez and lallana, even Ossie scored 44 goals last season out of our 60(ish)

 

 

NONE of them will be playing at the start of next season.

 

that is a MASSIVE hole to fill

 

Can't say that on here without being called a bed wetter or whatever. We all have to wait until the first day of the season to see if we have signed brilliant players and have an amazing squad, ready to go again next year.

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Lambert, rodriguez and lallana, even Ossie scored 44 goals last season out of our 60(ish)

 

 

NONE of them will be playing at the start of next season.

 

that is a MASSIVE hole to fill

 

Who is this Ossie who scored 44 of our goals? I must have missed that.

 

So if we signed Pelle and AN Other striker, perhaps even Ings, had Gallagher as back-up, replaced Lallana with Dusan Tadic, wouldn't we be potentially upgraded on Lambert, Osvaldo, Lallana, Guly and Sharp?

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And you posted it here. If it had contained a postive spin on the situation I wonder if you would have bothered?

 

Of course he would have, you're embarrassing yourself getting all shirty about someones take on our current situation.

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Who is this Ossie who scored 44 of our goals? I must have missed that.

 

So if we signed Pelle and AN Other striker, perhaps even Ings, had Gallagher as back-up, replaced Lallana with Dusan Tadic, wouldn't we be potentially upgraded on Lambert, Osvaldo, Lallana, Guly and Sharp?

its quite clear what I said. WHy are you struggling to understand the point

 

we had the players who scored the goals, we all thought ossie was going to come in and rip it up and put lambert on the bench every week, look how that went

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its quite clear what I said. WHy are you struggling to understand the point

 

we had the players who scored the goals, we all thought ossie was going to come in and rip it up and put lambert on the bench every week, look how that went

 

Osvaldo contributed the grand sum of 3 goals. Lallana, it depends on whether you class him as a striker or a midfielder, but a creditable score of 9 goals plus 6 assists for a midfielder. J Rod's 15 was pretty good, but as I said, he might be back anytime from September. Lambert not so spectacular with 13 and might well have faded next season anyway, but his assists were invaluable.

 

But care to respond as to whether the line-up I have suggested as a possibility would be an improvement on what we had last season?

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Osvaldo contributed the grand sum of 3 goals. Lallana, it depends on whether you class him as a striker or a midfielder, but a creditable score of 9 goals plus 6 assists for a midfielder. J Rod's 15 was pretty good, but as I said, he might be back anytime from September. Lambert not so spectacular with 13 and might well have faded next season anyway, but his assists were invaluable.

 

But care to respond as to whether the line-up I have suggested as a possibility would be an improvement on what we had last season?

either way, the forwards who scored 44 out of our 60-odd goals last season will not be here come the first game

 

its all well and good suggesting a line up, as said, ossie was supposed to come in and tear it up. that went well

 

as for pelle, we could get another Bony or van wolfs-winkle for all we know

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Osvaldo contributed the grand sum of 3 goals. Lallana, it depends on whether you class him as a striker or a midfielder, but a creditable score of 9 goals plus 6 assists for a midfielder. J Rod's 15 was pretty good, but as I said, he might be back anytime from September. Lambert not so spectacular with 13 and might well have faded next season anyway, but his assists were invaluable.

 

But care to respond as to whether the line-up I have suggested as a possibility would be an improvement on what we had last season?

 

I think even if we buy well there is a fair chance we will struggle. We don't know how the players will react to Poch leaving, Koeman might not be up to the job, players take time to settle and gel as a team.

 

For a club like Saints in the Premier League it is a very fine line between mid-table 'success' and a relegation battle.

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Of course he would have, you're embarrassing yourself getting all shirty about someones take on our current situation.

 

You know that as a fact do you given that every post I have read from him has a negative slant? I am not embarrassing myself. I am fed up with certain people assuming (or maybe even hoping) that the word has come to an end justbecause a few people have left. If it all goes t*ts up then he can crow away all he likes. At the moment we dont know how things are going to pan out so why not just wait and see who comes in and how we do before we start burying the club.

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You know that as a fact do you given that every post I have read from him has a negative slant? I am not embarrassing myself. I am fed up with certain people assuming (or maybe even hoping) that the word has come to an end justbecause a few people have left. If it all goes t*ts up then he can crow away all he likes. At the moment we dont know how things are going to pan out so why not just wait and see who comes in and how we do before we start burying the club.

its not unreasonable for other fans, and even some of our own to see the best 5 players leave with the manager....from a team that had little depth outside of central midfield to think that we might well struggle next season....

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someone posted a rumour bout Mario Mandzukic on the transfers thread, I don't know how ITK they are but it would certainly cause a stir if this turns out to be truth! Dumb clubs like West Ham will be v.jealous if this comes to fruition!

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either way, the forwards who scored 44 out of our 60-odd goals last season will not be here come the first game

 

its all well and good suggesting a line up, as said, ossie was supposed to come in and tear it up. that went well

 

as for pelle, we could get another Bony or van wolfs-winkle for all we know

 

I agree. But Osvaldo can be blamed on the last manager's poor judgement and he isn't here either. Whether Koeman gets his own temperamental Italian and whether he works out better than Pochettino's remains to be seen. Wolf's-Winkie was held up by Bazzer Sanchez as the sort of young dynamic player we should have been signing a year ago and as you say, look what happened to him. Michu was great one season and mediocre the next.

 

But we aren't short of funds to buy pretty decent players and on paper at least we can upgrade even on that strike force from last year. We will have to wait and see how they pan out, but there really is not any reason at this stage to believe that it will end in disaster as predicted by the Hammer fan or some on here. It could equally be argued now that those players from last year would have done worse than they did this year had they stayed, but that isn't something that crosses peoples' minds; they only usually comment on whether changes are better or worse.

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its not unreasonable for other fans, and even some of our own to see the best 5 players leave with the manager....from a team that had little depth outside of central midfield to think that we might well struggle next season....

 

Only 3 players have left so far. It is not unreasonable to think we might struggle after we know who the replacements are. Beforehand seems to be a little previous wouldnt you say? To continually talk about the negatives and then track down some other clubs fan who shares the same view and post that as well is getting a little wearing when the new manager has barely warmed his seat and we still dont know who is coming in to the club.

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someone posted a rumour bout Mario Mandzukic on the transfers thread, I don't know how ITK they are but it would certainly cause a stir if this turns out to be truth! Dumb clubs like West Ham will be v.jealous if this comes to fruition!

 

I heard W.Ham are after actual Sean Bean.

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Only 3 players have left so far. It is not unreasonable to think we might struggle after we know who the replacements are. Beforehand seems to be a little previous wouldnt you say? To continually talk about the negatives and then track down some other clubs fan who shares the same view and post that as well is getting a little wearing when the new manager has barely warmed his seat and we still dont know who is coming in to the club.

 

It was an interesting article that came up on a Saints newsfeed, is about Saints and I posted it here, on a Saints Forum where Saints fans have read it and enough have commented for it to have been worthwhile posting.

 

FWIW I think (as do others) that its quite a balanced article, and is actually quite positive about Saints as a club, it just bemoans the influence of the bigger clubs.

 

Apologies if you didnt like it but:

 

1. I didnt write it. Play the post not the Poster

 

2. You could see I posted it so if you hate my posts and threads then feel free to block me or not read my threads.

 

3. I will look forward to your contributions to the forum, where you can give your opinion which I may not agree with but will respect.

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someone posted a rumour bout Mario Mandzukic on the transfers thread, I don't know how ITK they are but it would certainly cause a stir if this turns out to be truth! Dumb clubs like West Ham will be v.jealous if this comes to fruition!

 

Perhaps Lovren's been tapping him up :)

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