eddie Posted 22 July, 2015 Share Posted 22 July, 2015 I think you make a very fair point here. The as-yet-unanswered question remains, in my mind, whether he can cut the mustard doing the physical defensive side when a game requires it. The YouTube clips suggest that he is strong in the tackle and in the face of the opposition, but the jury is out - in my mind - on whether he has the fitness to be on the pace of the game and therefore in the right place at the right time. Koeman obviously things that, given time, he can develop into a star prem player. Whether that happens quickly enough for him to be a starter in August/Sept I'm not sure. I suspect that he will start. It is just uncertainty - that's all. We know what we're getting with Harry. Right place, right time. Will Claise be at that level? What use are the silky through-balls if we are shipping goals at the other end due to a lack of sufficient defensive cover? Hm. Fair, although I really don't think the jury is undecided. He's a proven quality defensive midfielder in one of the top 2/3 teams in the eredivisie, and he's been rated to play at national level as the key defensive midfielder (bear in mind last year in WC the games he played he was playing alongside wijnaldum (who for those games definitely played more an attacking midfielder) and guzman......who is 5' 8, and blind, who showed for Man U that while he can break up play and distribute, he's not a key shield for back line. So van gaal rated him to be the prime DM for netherlands team. I'm not saying he's a god on the pitch, but he's very very highly rated. In a way I don't know what you would say of schneiderlin if we signed him now from some other league. He is a quality, proven DM who is good at distributing and excellent at breaking up play. But, just like clasie, I feel a lot more confident having someone play alongside him like Wanyama (I know I sound like I'm down on morgan, not at all, I think he's world class.). Sure, Clasie has not played in england. But is the question over him 'completely unanswered?' Not really..... If its a fitness question though, like you say, he's not been out through injury much (the most games he has consecutively missed due to injury in the last four years is.....two), and he regularly plays all 90 at feyenoord - in fact he played the most minutes out of any player in the squad for feyenoord last season - 2778. I think he's not just about silky through balls, but I'd be interested to hear your reply. you seem like a level headed guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 22 July, 2015 Share Posted 22 July, 2015 Yep, agree. Probable starting line-up tomorrow...? Stekelenburg Cédric - Fonte - Yoshida - Targett Wanyama - Clasie Mane - Long - Tadic Pelle The back 7 picks itself currently in my eyes and Pelle will be leading the line in attack. The big question is how the "three" will be set up. Mane plays best centrally just off the centre forward, so I could see Tadic and Juanmi as the two out wide. But that leaves us with a very attacking front 4, where for some games I get the feeling Koeman would want Davis or Ward-Prowse to be involved. Be interesting to see how we work that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 22 July, 2015 Share Posted 22 July, 2015 Koeman will be having an al fresco press conference today... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 22 July, 2015 Share Posted 22 July, 2015 Koeman will be having an al fresco press conference today... Is that the new centre back we're signing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 22 July, 2015 Share Posted 22 July, 2015 The back 7 picks itself currently in my eyes and Pelle will be leading the line in attack. The big question is how the "three" will be set up. Mane plays best centrally just off the centre forward, so I could see Tadic and Juanmi as the two out wide. But that leaves us with a very attacking front 4, where for some games I get the feeling Koeman would want Davis or Ward-Prowse to be involved. Be interesting to see how we work that. And no Jrod who is arguably our best player... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 22 July, 2015 Share Posted 22 July, 2015 And no Jrod who is arguably our best player... I reckon they'll want to slowly intergrate him into competitive games due to the length of time he's had out, which is fair enough in my eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 22 July, 2015 Share Posted 22 July, 2015 And no Jrod who is arguably our best player... I reckon its unlikely JRod will start tomorrow, having come through his first 90 minutes yesterday, but agree that he will be in our 'best' starting 11 once the season is underway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcjwills Posted 22 July, 2015 Share Posted 22 July, 2015 I reckon its unlikely JRod will start tomorrow, having come through his first 90 minutes yesterday, but agree that he will be in our 'best' starting 11 once the season is underway. Think he will be rested and come on for the last 20 minutes for a run out just to get all his preferred starters on the pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 22 July, 2015 Share Posted 22 July, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcbendy Posted 22 July, 2015 Share Posted 22 July, 2015 Not sure if it's common knowledge (I hadn't realised) - if you want to watch the full 90 minutes of the KVV Quick game you can - it's here: The footage seems to start at 6 mins and 19 seconds into the video. I'll see if I can embed it: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeyenoordFan Posted 22 July, 2015 Share Posted 22 July, 2015 Really can't wait till tomorrow! Really looking forward to the clash. Especially to say goodbye to Pelle and Clasie. But Clasie his girlfriend will almost give a birth to their second child. So it's not sure that Clasie will be there tomorrow.. Sven van Beek is injured so he will not play, Kongolo will. Hope you'll enjoy our new star, eventhough Pelle will win every airgame from Kongolo because he's just too strong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Balls Posted 22 July, 2015 Share Posted 22 July, 2015 Really can't wait till tomorrow! Really looking forward to the clash. Especially to say goodbye to Pelle and Clasie. But Clasie his girlfriend will almost give a birth to their second child. So it's not sure that Clasie will be there tomorrow.. Sven van Beek is injured so he will not play, Kongolo will. Hope you'll enjoy our new star, eventhough Pelle will win every airgame from Kongolo because he's just too strong. Enjoy tomorrow. If it wasn't for the Europa League, there'd be a lot more Saints fans there. Including me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcbendy Posted 22 July, 2015 Share Posted 22 July, 2015 Hm. Fair, although I really don't think the jury is undecided. He's a proven quality defensive midfielder in one of the top 2/3 teams in the eredivisie, and he's been rated to play at national level as the key defensive midfielder (bear in mind last year in WC the games he played he was playing alongside wijnaldum (who for those games definitely played more an attacking midfielder) and guzman......who is 5' 8, and blind, who showed for Man U that while he can break up play and distribute, he's not a key shield for back line. So van gaal rated him to be the prime DM for netherlands team. I'm not saying he's a god on the pitch, but he's very very highly rated. In a way I don't know what you would say of schneiderlin if we signed him now from some other league. He is a quality, proven DM who is good at distributing and excellent at breaking up play. But, just like clasie, I feel a lot more confident having someone play alongside him like Wanyama (I know I sound like I'm down on morgan, not at all, I think he's world class.). Sure, Clasie has not played in england. But is the question over him 'completely unanswered?' Not really..... If its a fitness question though, like you say, he's not been out through injury much (the most games he has consecutively missed due to injury in the last four years is.....two), and he regularly plays all 90 at feyenoord - in fact he played the most minutes out of any player in the squad for feyenoord last season - 2778. I think he's not just about silky through balls, but I'd be interested to hear your reply. you seem like a level headed guy My 'concern' for want of a better word isn't about his ability going forward or in defence - I don't doubt his quality - it's about his fitness, basically. People often talk about adjusting to the 'tempo'/'pace' of the Prem, which I take to mean the rapid transitions from attack to defence. End-to-end, call it what you will. If you watch continental teams play there are often slower transitions, periods of leisurely possession. In fact - pretty much exactly what Blind says here: http://www.90min.com/posts/1899209-daley-blind-premier-league-pace-wore-me-out If Clasie is off the pace then he won't be in the right place at the right time to show his attacking or defensive qualities. If you compare his performance to Reed in the KVV Quick game, for example, Clasie was jogging around with occasional short sprints. Harry was all-action for much more of the time. As you say, they may have been asked to play different roles. But, in a game which requires two predominantly defensive midfielders - both at the pace rather than waiting nearby to play an elegant through ball - will Clasie be able to do it? The full 90 that I watched against Sevilla (http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2b...720p-eng_sport) was a game which was quite frantic and broken (like it often is in the prem) and Clasie hardly featured. He jogged around, wasn't where the action was happening much, and didn't contribute much in either direction. Feel free to watch that and imagine how e.g. Schneiderlin would have been in that game. Constantly shifting his position to form a line of defense in between a developing attack and the back four. Breaking up play, then solid distribution into an attacking phase. Hopefully we will quickly see Clasie stretched a bit more and see more of his defensive qualities. It is only pre-season and early days. To be clear I'm not saying that he can't or won't, just that I'm not on the bandwagon which says that he will find it easy to perform the 'Morgan' role. With the quality of our attacking line-up, I would rather see someone in the DM position beside Victor who I was confident was up to the mark from a defensive point of view. So personally I would start Reed against Vitesse. Particularly given that we play a system with two very attacking full-backs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcbendy Posted 22 July, 2015 Share Posted 22 July, 2015 This just now from the club: Southampton FC @SouthamptonFC @_Firebirding There was a non-broadcast press conference with local Dutch media earlier today. #saintsfc I wonder if we will get any info from this filtering through? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamilton Saint Posted 22 July, 2015 Share Posted 22 July, 2015 Koeman will be having an al fresco press conference today... Great photo - thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintmike5 Posted 22 July, 2015 Share Posted 22 July, 2015 Hopefully we will quickly see Clasie stretched a bit more .... I know he's a bit on the short side but surely that's not the answer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 22 July, 2015 Author Share Posted 22 July, 2015 Should we risk both Fonte and Yoshida tomorrow given the start of our season is about a week away and they are the only fit senior centre backs? Maybe just play one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint-Armstrong Posted 22 July, 2015 Share Posted 22 July, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 22 July, 2015 Share Posted 22 July, 2015 Should we risk both Fonte and Yoshida tomorrow given the start of our season is about a week away and they are the only fit senior centre backs? Maybe just play one of them. Maybe make sure they don't eat any seafood or cross any busy roads either. Is there a radiator we can chain them both to for a week or so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcbendy Posted 22 July, 2015 Share Posted 22 July, 2015 aw - his feet don't touch the floor! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 22 July, 2015 Author Share Posted 22 July, 2015 Maybe make sure they don't eat any seafood or cross any busy roads either. Is there a radiator we can chain them both to for a week or so? Should be warm enough for them to stay healthy, but agree re seafood. No bike rides in the Dutch countryside either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 22 July, 2015 Share Posted 22 July, 2015 Should we risk both Fonte and Yoshida tomorrow given the start of our season is about a week away and they are the only fit senior centre backs? Maybe just play one of them. Do we know for sure that Gardos is injured? Haven't seen anything. We also have Stephens and Turnbull as backup, surely they should be enough for the Europa League, even if not for the PL. Seems no point to me not playing our full team in the final pre-season friendly before the competitive games kick-off (yes, I know there is the home friendly as well AFTER our first competitive match). That's what pre-season games are for. Unless they play they really aren't match fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 22 July, 2015 Share Posted 22 July, 2015 (edited) Do you not think our starting XI in the first competitive game needs to get used to playing together beforehand? Stekelenburg, Cedric, Targett, Clasie will all likely be playing vs Vitesse and weren't regulars for us last season. Edited 22 July, 2015 by Matthew Le God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint-Armstrong Posted 22 July, 2015 Share Posted 22 July, 2015 Do you not think our starting XI in the first competitive game needs to get used to playing together beforehand? Stekelenburg, Cedric, Targett, Clasie will all likely be playing vs Vitesse and weren't regulars for us last season. Oh, MLG. If only you'd read what VectisSaints had posted before getting yourself into a tizzy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 22 July, 2015 Share Posted 22 July, 2015 Oh, MLG. If only you'd read what VectisSaints had posted before getting yourself into a tizzy. Usual issue with MLG, thinks he knows everything and is a pedant when others post but seems to have an inability to read/comprehend simple English and proceeds to make himself look more of a t** than he probably is. I'm sure he is a sensible bloke really (after all he supports Saints). Still it was useful to have it highlighted for those who didn't know who our first choice players might be, would never have worked that out on our own I'm sure. I guess there will now be a typical reply from said MLG, something insulting or other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 22 July, 2015 Share Posted 22 July, 2015 My post was meant to be in reply to Saint Charlie, not VectisSaint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 22 July, 2015 Author Share Posted 22 July, 2015 My post was meant to be in reply to Saint Charlie, not VectisSaint. Ok. Thanks for clarifying. What did you say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcbendy Posted 22 July, 2015 Share Posted 22 July, 2015 I think you make a very fair point here. The as-yet-unanswered question remains, in my mind, whether he can cut the mustard doing the physical defensive side when a game requires it. The YouTube clips suggest that he is strong in the tackle and in the face of the opposition, but the jury is out - in my mind - on whether he has the fitness to be on the pace of the game and therefore in the right place at the right time. Koeman obviously things that, given time, he can develop into a star prem player. Whether that happens quickly enough for him to be a starter in August/Sept I'm not sure. I suspect that he will start. It is just uncertainty - that's all. We know what we're getting with Harry. Right place, right time. Will Claise be at that level? What use are the silky through-balls if we are shipping goals at the other end due to a lack of sufficient defensive cover? I'm not the kind of guy to believe my own opinions without question. I just watched the first 45 again on YouTube, watching every last Clasie touch. On a second viewing, he did far more than I had realised live. Lots of tackles, interceptions and also two assists (there was nowt wrong with the JRod goal - wrongly given offside). He was often in the right place at the right time to pick up loose balls. He only failed to complete two passes, and of these, he won the ball back almost immediately on one occasion. He seemed to read the game very well and be efficient in terms of how he invested his energy. I feel a lot more positive now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 22 July, 2015 Share Posted 22 July, 2015 I'm not the kind of guy to believe my own opinions without question. I just watched the first 45 again on YouTube, watching every last Clasie touch. On a second viewing, he did far more than I had realised live. Lots of tackles, interceptions and also two assists (there was nowt wrong with the JRod goal - wrongly given offside). He was often in the right place at the right time to pick up loose balls. He only failed to complete two passes, and of these, he won the ball back almost immediately on one occasion. He seemed to read the game very well and be efficient in terms of how he invested his energy. I feel a lot more positive now. Ultimately ridiculous making any kind of judgement based on 45mins of such a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 22 July, 2015 Share Posted 22 July, 2015 Will be a strange one to watch tomorrow night. Relatively serious as pre season goes, our last game before competitive action, but it seems it's almost going to be a celebration and thank you to Pellè, Clasie, Koeman. Something a bit different anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcbendy Posted 22 July, 2015 Share Posted 22 July, 2015 Ultimately ridiculous making any kind of judgement based on 45mins of such a game. The word 'judgement' can imply final and immovable or ongoing, fluid. It would be ridiculous to be at either extreme. It is entirely natural to judge the performance of a new player, but I agree that we should reserve judgement until much further down the line... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
van Hanegem Posted 22 July, 2015 Share Posted 22 July, 2015 I'm not the kind of guy to believe my own opinions without question. I just watched the first 45 again on YouTube, watching every last Clasie touch. On a second viewing, he did far more than I had realised live. Lots of tackles, interceptions and also two assists (there was nowt wrong with the JRod goal - wrongly given offside). He was often in the right place at the right time to pick up loose balls. He only failed to complete two passes, and of these, he won the ball back almost immediately on one occasion. He seemed to read the game very well and be efficient in terms of how he invested his energy. I feel a lot more positive now. But you were right in your post above expressing your concerns about his fitness. Clasie will need some time to adept to the pace in the PL, in fact, he told Dutch media he was very impressed with the fitness and power/strength of his new teammates and he said that he had to go to the gym much more. As a Feyenoord fan I know the qualities of Clasie but I don't understand that he didn't work more on his fitness while he played for Feyenoord. I guess it's all a bit too easy in the Eredivisie as there are many more players who look like small boys (you will see it tonight in the game against Feyenoord too). There's one exception at Feyenoord: Colin Kazeem Richards. Yup, an Englishman... Too bad he's not much of a footballer though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldridge Posted 22 July, 2015 Share Posted 22 July, 2015 Nice little video here of Koeman's press conference malfunction earlier today. :lol: http://www.offside.nl/nieuws/406703/ronald-koeman-aangevallen-tijdens-persconferentie-.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 23 July, 2015 Share Posted 23 July, 2015 ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericofarabia Posted 23 July, 2015 Share Posted 23 July, 2015 ... ... --- ... ? A cry for help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 23 July, 2015 Share Posted 23 July, 2015 Koeman - "Florin Gardoș has a very bad knee injury and had an operation on 21st July" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 23 July, 2015 Share Posted 23 July, 2015 Wasnt Gardos recovering from a knee or thigh injury or something when he joined us last year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 23 July, 2015 Share Posted 23 July, 2015 Luddite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over land and sea Posted 23 July, 2015 Share Posted 23 July, 2015 (edited) That's quite an injury list, particularly defensively, given we've yet to start the season (4 first team squad plus 3 U21s): Forster Gardos Bertrand Ramirez (minor) Mugabi Seager Flannigan Edited 24 July, 2015 by Over land and sea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 23 July, 2015 Share Posted 23 July, 2015 Koeman - "Florin Gardoș has a very bad knee injury and had an operation on 21st July" What is a 'very bad knee injury'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 23 July, 2015 Share Posted 23 July, 2015 What is a 'very bad knee injury'? Finding fragments of it spread around the car park. Is it that? PS Also "in before MLG says "you'll have to ask Ronald Koeman that". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dangermouth Posted 23 July, 2015 Share Posted 23 July, 2015 Wasnt Gardos recovering from a knee or thigh injury or something when he joined us last year? Yes. It's why he didn't train properly for a while when he joined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint97 Posted 24 July, 2015 Share Posted 24 July, 2015 Saints reserves beat Feyenoord reserves today, 2-1. Long and Rodriguez scored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Dick Last Posted 26 July, 2015 Share Posted 26 July, 2015 Back yesterday from a great pre-season tour. Saw some great football, met some brilliant people and drunk far too much beer !!! I like the look of how our team is preparing for the coming season. We were comfortable against Gronigen. Seeing as both our seasons start on the same weekend we were so much fitter than them. KVV Quick was just a Turkey shoot. Great fun for the 30 or so that were there. According to the locals Quick are one of the better amateur sides. God knows what the score could have been against the worst ! Feyenoords stadium was superb. Great atmosphere and non stop singing from the Saints fans. I thought the team put in another composed performance. People on here are doubting Clasie but for me he is a class act. A player who reads the game very well and he is always in space available for a pass. His pass completion rate was superb. As long as he can cope with the intensity of the premier league we have a new star on our hands. Every Dutch fan you talk to really rates him. We spent Wednesday in Arnhem. Walked to the ground from the centre. Not advisable as it is over 30 minutes walk ! Much easier to catch the number 7 bus that drops you right outside. I collected the tickets I had ordered and bought 5 more. The woman in the ticket office was happy to sell me as many as I wanted. You can even buy them from the Primera shops that are throughout Holland without any restrictions. When to watch Vitesse in a pre season game in the evening. Although no way of knowing how many 1st team players were playing they looked pretty poor. A couple of lively lads in the middle of the park but a couple of old centre halves who will struggle with the pace of some of ours. I am confident we will win this game after what I have seen of both teams last week. Bring on Arnhem next Thursday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsarum Posted 26 July, 2015 Share Posted 26 July, 2015 Back yesterday from a great pre-season tour. Saw some great football, met some brilliant people and drunk far too much beer !!! I like the look of how our team is preparing for the coming season. We were comfortable against Gronigen. Seeing as both our seasons start on the same weekend we were so much fitter than them. KVV Quick was just a Turkey shoot. Great fun for the 30 or so that were there. According to the locals Quick are one of the better amateur sides. God knows what the score could have been against the worst ! Feyenoords stadium was superb. Great atmosphere and non stop singing from the Saints fans. I thought the team put in another composed performance. People on here are doubting Clasie but for me he is a class act. A player who reads the game very well and he is always in space available for a pass. His pass completion rate was superb. As long as he can cope with the intensity of the premier league we have a new star on our hands. Every Dutch fan you talk to really rates him. We spent Wednesday in Arnhem. Walked to the ground from the centre. Not advisable as it is over 30 minutes walk ! Much easier to catch the number 7 bus that drops you right outside. I collected the tickets I had ordered and bought 5 more. The woman in the ticket office was happy to sell me as many as I wanted. You can even buy them from the Primera shops that are throughout Holland without any restrictions. When to watch Vitesse in a pre season game in the evening. Although no way of knowing how many 1st team players were playing they looked pretty poor. A couple of lively lads in the middle of the park but a couple of old centre halves who will struggle with the pace of some of ours. I am confident we will win this game after what I have seen of both teams last week. Bring on Arnhem next Thursday How easy was it picking up tickets from Vitesse, did just you show them confirmation of purchase or wuss more involved ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Dick Last Posted 27 July, 2015 Share Posted 27 July, 2015 How easy was it picking up tickets from Vitesse, did just you show them confirmation of purchase or wuss more involved ? Just gave them my order number and they printed off the tickets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsarum Posted 27 July, 2015 Share Posted 27 July, 2015 Just gave them my order number and they printed off the tickets Cheers, where abouts at the ground is the ticket office ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Dick Last Posted 28 July, 2015 Share Posted 28 July, 2015 Cheers, where abouts at the ground is the ticket office ? On the same side as the McDonalds, next to the bus parking. Block 122 is on the opposite side Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now