hypochondriac Posted 7 April, 2017 Share Posted 7 April, 2017 Another truck of peace making its way peacefully through Stockholm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 8 April, 2017 Share Posted 8 April, 2017 How many Islamic terror attacks across Europe would have to happen before you admitted there was a problem? according to soggy, there never has been a problem with Islam. These are just unfortunate people with mental issues who are driving these trucks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 8 April, 2017 Share Posted 8 April, 2017 Another truck of peace making its way peacefully through Stockholm. Did you hit your wife? It seems to be her fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 8 April, 2017 Author Share Posted 8 April, 2017 according to soggy, there never has been a problem with Islam. These are just unfortunate people with mental issues who are driving these trucks Hello Batman, feel free to find a quote from me where I say there isn't a problem with extremists. The difference is that you and your other buddies want to blame the whole of Islam for these actions rather than the extremists themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 8 April, 2017 Share Posted 8 April, 2017 Hello Batman, feel free to find a quote from me where I say there isn't a problem with extremists. The difference is that you and your other buddies want to blame the whole of Islam for these actions rather than the extremists themselves. where have I blamed the whole of islam? as you say, feel free to quote.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 9 April, 2017 Share Posted 9 April, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 9 April, 2017 Share Posted 9 April, 2017 I'm sure all the families of those terrorists will find comfort in that graph. I assume our Irish friends are part of the earlier deaths Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 9 April, 2017 Share Posted 9 April, 2017 I'm sure all the families of those terrorists will find comfort in that graph. I assume our Irish friends are part of the earlier deaths Merely pointing out a bit of perspective is needed. The numbers of Europeans dying from war and terrorism are a record low. You're 20 times more likely to die falling down the stairs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted 9 April, 2017 Share Posted 9 April, 2017 Merely pointing out a bit of perspective is needed. The numbers of Europeans dying from war and Oh terrorism are a record low. You're 20 times more likely to die falling down the stairs I'm still more inclined to take my chances with my stairs than an Islamist nutter behind the wheel of a truck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 9 April, 2017 Share Posted 9 April, 2017 Merely pointing out a bit of perspective is needed. The numbers of Europeans dying from war and terrorism are a record low. You're 20 times more likely to die falling down the stairs Just because the 70s and 80s were violent (thanks to NI and ETA) doesn't mean Islamic Terror is not a problem. According to http://www.thereligionofpeace.com there were 143 Islamic attacks in 22 countries, in which 1064 people were killed and 1214 injured - in the last 30 days. And 99% of all attacks carried out in the name of religion are Islamic. I obviously cannot verify the stats from this site but even if only half are true it paints a very grim picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 9 April, 2017 Share Posted 9 April, 2017 The women of Yorkshire had more chance of falling down the stairs than of being raped & murdered by Peter Sutcliffe. I can't understand why they were so scared to go out at night, as staying in was much more dangerous. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 9 April, 2017 Share Posted 9 April, 2017 The women of Yorkshire had more chance of falling down the stairs than of being raped & murdered by Peter Sutcliffe. I can't understand why they were so scared to go out at night, as staying in was much more dangerous. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk And I daresay a much larger number over those years were raped, beaten or murdered at home by husbands and boyfriends. They would have been better off out and about down the bingo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 9 April, 2017 Share Posted 9 April, 2017 (edited) Just because the 70s and 80s were violent (thanks to NI and ETA) doesn't mean Islamic Terror is not a problem. According to http://www.thereligionofpeace.com there were 143 Islamic attacks in 22 countries, in which 1064 people were killed and 1214 injured - in the last 30 days. And 99% of all attacks carried out in the name of religion are Islamic. I obviously cannot verify the stats from this site but even if only half are true it paints a very grim picture. The 1960s and 70s weren't violent, not compared with previous decades anyway. There were 57,400 British casualties on a single day in the Battle of the Somme. WW2 killed 60million people, Korea another 1.5 million, Pol Pot 30% of the population. My point isnt really about Islamic terrorism (average c25 deaths per year in Europe), more to do with the fact we seem to have lost sight of what is a real danger and what isnt. Edited 10 April, 2017 by buctootim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 10 April, 2017 Share Posted 10 April, 2017 My point isnt really about Islamic terrorism, more to do with the fact we seem to have lost sight of what is a real danger and what isnt. Isn't that the point of terrorism, if people start getting jumpy every time they see a burqa, or a truck being driven round a shopping area, the bad guys don't actually have to do anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 10 April, 2017 Share Posted 10 April, 2017 Isn't that the point of terrorism, if people start getting jumpy every time they see a burqa, or a truck being driven round a shopping area, the bad guys don't actually have to do anything. they kind of do, they kind of have to kill thousands of innocent people to get to that point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 10 April, 2017 Author Share Posted 10 April, 2017 where have I blamed the whole of islam? as you say, feel free to quote.... Come on Batman, we all know that you have a problem with Johnny Foreigners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 10 April, 2017 Share Posted 10 April, 2017 Come on Batman, we all know that you have a problem with Johnny Foreigners. do we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 10 April, 2017 Share Posted 10 April, 2017 do we? We do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 10 April, 2017 Share Posted 10 April, 2017 We do pretty disgusting remark. please, show the evidence..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 10 April, 2017 Share Posted 10 April, 2017 pretty disgusting remark. please, show the evidence..... Your Saintsweb posts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 10 April, 2017 Share Posted 10 April, 2017 Your Saintsweb posts OK, cheers for trying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 10 April, 2017 Share Posted 10 April, 2017 where have I blamed the whole of islam? as you say, feel free to quote.... So which bits of Islam do you blame. And which bits are ok with you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 11 April, 2017 Share Posted 11 April, 2017 Seems the Dortmund team bus has been attacked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 12 April, 2017 Share Posted 12 April, 2017 Seems the Dortmund team bus has been attacked. do NOT jump to any conclusions!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 12 April, 2017 Share Posted 12 April, 2017 (edited) So which bits of Islam do you blame. And which bits are ok with you? This article provides a good answer to that. It's probably a bit wordy for soggy but you'd probably find it mildly interesting. http://quillette.com/2017/03/31/ayaan-hirsi-ali-explains-how-to-combat-political-islam2/ This bit in particular: Before delving into Hirsi Ali’s advice, it’s worth establishing the premises framing her argument. Islam, while possessing the supernatural characteristics of its Abrahamic predecessors, propounds an ideology of temporal control and submission. “Islam,” after all, means “submission” – by mankind, to the will of God, here on Earth. The very name of the faith manifests its essence, implying confrontation between a deity who commands and mortals who must obey – or else. Nowhere in Islam’s foundational texts does there reside a declaration equivalent to Jesus’s “Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s.” Islam’s foundational texts do not preach separation between mosque and state. Everything belongs to God. Islam’s command to submit pertains not just to Muslims, but to humanity as a whole. (“People of the Book” – i.e, Jews and Christians – are granted some leniency in this life, but the Quran, regarded by Muslims as the perfect, inalterable Word of God, leaves no doubt that hellfire awaits nonbelievers.) Make no mistake about it: a future in which an unreformed Islam prevailed would be grim indeed, inimical to every Enlightenment value and every liberal principle, and thus to our Constitutional order and the protections it affords minority rights (women’s rights, LBGT rights, and so on) of all sorts. That such a future is improbable is irrelevant; the threat comes from those willing to kill to bring it about. They – and not Hirsi Ali – are the ones obliging us to have this conversation. Hirsi Ali is concerned with the menacing political ideology that permeates dawa. As practiced by Islamists, dawa, she says, aims both to convert non-Muslims to Islam and to “instil Islamist views in existing Muslims.” Dawa is the “subversive, indoctrinating precursor to jihad.” It, thus, constitutes a threat, but since it is “an ostensibly religious missionary activity, proponents of dawa enjoy a much greater protection by the law in free societies than Marxists or Fascists did in the past.” Government agencies have been “duped into regarding” Islamist groups “as representatives of moderate Muslims simply because they do not engage in violence.” Edited 12 April, 2017 by hypochondriac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 12 April, 2017 Share Posted 12 April, 2017 This article provides a good answer to that. It's probably a bit wordy for soggy but you'd probably find it mildly interesting. http://quillette.com/2017/03/31/ayaan-hirsi-ali-explains-how-to-combat-political-islam2/ This bit in particular: Before delving into Hirsi Ali’s advice, it’s worth establishing the premises framing her argument. Islam, while possessing the supernatural characteristics of its Abrahamic predecessors, propounds an ideology of temporal control and submission. “Islam,” after all, means “submission” – by mankind, to the will of God, here on Earth. The very name of the faith manifests its essence, implying confrontation between a deity who commands and mortals who must obey – or else. Nowhere in Islam’s foundational texts does there reside a declaration equivalent to Jesus’s “Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s.” Islam’s foundational texts do not preach separation between mosque and state. Everything belongs to God. Islam’s command to submit pertains not just to Muslims, but to humanity as a whole. (“People of the Book” – i.e, Jews and Christians – are granted some leniency in this life, but the Quran, regarded by Muslims as the perfect, inalterable Word of God, leaves no doubt that hellfire awaits nonbelievers.) Make no mistake about it: a future in which an unreformed Islam prevailed would be grim indeed, inimical to every Enlightenment value and every liberal principle, and thus to our Constitutional order and the protections it affords minority rights (women’s rights, LBGT rights, and so on) of all sorts. That such a future is improbable is irrelevant; the threat comes from those willing to kill to bring it about. They – and not Hirsi Ali – are the ones obliging us to have this conversation. Hirsi Ali is concerned with the menacing political ideology that permeates dawa. As practiced by Islamists, dawa, she says, aims both to convert non-Muslims to Islam and to “instil Islamist views in existing Muslims.” Dawa is the “subversive, indoctrinating precursor to jihad.” It, thus, constitutes a threat, but since it is “an ostensibly religious missionary activity, proponents of dawa enjoy a much greater protection by the law in free societies than Marxists or Fascists did in the past.” Government agencies have been “duped into regarding” Islamist groups “as representatives of moderate Muslims simply because they do not engage in violence.” Well I'm not sure there's a cigarette paper's difference between Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Batman - possibly she's a disciple of his? Anyway, they both make the same category error of believing that foundational texts are of the essence of religious actions, when in fact religions are basically (a) what people who call themselves devotees say they are, and (b) what people (see Batman, Ali, passim) who oppose them say they are. Ali-Batman is also wrong to suggest that what distinguishes Christianity from Islam is a separation of religion and state because the majority of very many different strains of Islam do just that. So if Ali-Batman wishes to revise their (note: gender-non-specific) essentialist errors, I'd be...amazed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 13 April, 2017 Share Posted 13 April, 2017 do NOT jump to any conclusions!!! and it was a Muslim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHAPEL END CHARLIE Posted 13 April, 2017 Share Posted 13 April, 2017 and it was a Muslim Why don't you tell us all what you want done about terrorism - beyond that which is already happening that is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 13 April, 2017 Share Posted 13 April, 2017 and it was a Muslim Just part and parcel of opening the doors of Europe to Islam. And some people want more of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 13 April, 2017 Share Posted 13 April, 2017 Why don't you tell us all what you want done about terrorism - beyond that which is already happening that is? Hasn't that conversation taken place on this thread... Many many pages ago? Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHAPEL END CHARLIE Posted 13 April, 2017 Share Posted 13 April, 2017 Hasn't that conversation taken place on this thread... Many many pages ago? Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk Remind us then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 13 April, 2017 Share Posted 13 April, 2017 Remind us then. Use the search facility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHAPEL END CHARLIE Posted 13 April, 2017 Share Posted 13 April, 2017 Use the search facility. You seem uncharacteristically shy - what is it you want done to address this issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 13 April, 2017 Share Posted 13 April, 2017 You seem uncharacteristically shy - what is it you want done to address this issue? Brilliant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHAPEL END CHARLIE Posted 13 April, 2017 Share Posted 13 April, 2017 Brilliant Not really, just a simple question that I would have thought you should be able to answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 13 April, 2017 Share Posted 13 April, 2017 Not really, just a simple question that I would have thought you should be able to answer. Just have a look on the thread search options. It's all there for you to see. If you can't be bothered, that is your issue Now, line up your set piece else where Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHAPEL END CHARLIE Posted 13 April, 2017 Share Posted 13 April, 2017 Just have a look on the thread search options. It's all there for you to see. If you can't be bothered, that is your issue Okay then, what search terms do you recommend are most likely to bring me closer to the answer in a 4,600 post thread? I must say it is starting to look like you don't really have much to offer here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 13 April, 2017 Share Posted 13 April, 2017 27 men in court this week in Huddersfield. Charged with horrific sexual crimes against children. I bet the names of the accused don't surprise anyone. Not too many Bob Smith's or Pete Brown's. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-39580591 Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 13 April, 2017 Share Posted 13 April, 2017 Okay then, what search terms do you recommend are most likely to bring me closer to the answer in a 4,600 post thread? I must say it is starting to look like you don't really have much to offer here. Why does he need to provide a solution? Why are you so desperately trying to deflect from the problem of Islamic terrorism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackanorySFC Posted 13 April, 2017 Share Posted 13 April, 2017 27 men in court this week in Huddersfield. Charged with horrific sexual crimes against children. I bet the names of the accused don't surprise anyone. Not too many Bob Smith's or Pete Brown's. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-39580591 Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Absolute ****ing scum! What role do the women in their community play in this? In "traditional" British communities like the one I live in to be involved with something this sick would see your own Mum turn on you. Seems as long as the victim is white these Asian/ British Asian lads have carte blanche to crack on without fear of reprisals from their own community, or even worse (going by the numbers involved in these cases) get more of their mates/ cousins/ male family members to join in. Fair play to The Times for exposing the Rotherham cover up, seems to be the thin end of the wedge. Dirty nonces deserve every year the judge sentences them to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHAPEL END CHARLIE Posted 13 April, 2017 Share Posted 13 April, 2017 Why does he need to provide a solution? Why are you so desperately trying to deflect from the problem of Islamic terrorism? Well if the likes of you and Batman have anything more to offer than mere condemnation - and we all condemn violence I hope - then it seems perfectly reasonable to request that these ideas should be put forward for consideration. But as he seems to have been struck dumb all of a sudden I will extend the invitation to you - what actual policies do you want to see implemented to help counter the terrorism problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 13 April, 2017 Share Posted 13 April, 2017 Well if the likes of you and Batman have anything more to offer than mere condemnation - and we all condemn violence I hope - then it seems perfectly reasonable to request that these ideas should be put forward for consideration. But as he seems to have been struck dumb all of a sudden I will extend the invitation to you - what actual policies do you want to see implemented to help counter the terrorism problem? search tool. jesus christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 13 April, 2017 Share Posted 13 April, 2017 Well if the likes of you and Batman have anything more to offer than mere condemnation - and we all condemn violence I hope - then it seems perfectly reasonable to request that these ideas should be put forward for consideration. But as he seems to have been struck dumb all of a sudden I will extend the invitation to you - what actual policies do you want to see implemented to help counter the terrorism problem? Do you condemn the impact of Islam in western Europe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHAPEL END CHARLIE Posted 13 April, 2017 Share Posted 13 April, 2017 search tool. jesus christ You misunderstand - I'm not requesting some mammoth 50,000 word thesis on the subject of International Terrorism and its history. Just a brief summery (or précis) of you thoughts on the subject is not much too ask is it? 'Bullet points' would be quite acceptable old boy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 13 April, 2017 Share Posted 13 April, 2017 You misunderstand - I'm not requesting some mammoth 50,000 word thesis on the subject of International Terrorism and its history. Just a brief summery (or précis) of you thoughts on the subject is not much too ask is it? 'Bullet points' would be quite acceptable old boy. you could just look at the search feature as I cannot be bothered to repeat what I (and others) have said over numerous posts. This will be my last post in response to you on this matter (and waste of time). if you see that as some sort of little win, then fantastic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHAPEL END CHARLIE Posted 13 April, 2017 Share Posted 13 April, 2017 I think better now throw this open to the rest of the forum, as it would appear that my interlocutor seems to have forgotten his own opinion. Does anyone else know what Batman's proposed measures to reduce the threat of terrorism are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 13 April, 2017 Share Posted 13 April, 2017 Do you condemn the impact of Islam in western Europe? Presumably you are happy to accept the historical contributions of Islamic society to Mathematics, medicine, science, etc ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHAPEL END CHARLIE Posted 13 April, 2017 Share Posted 13 April, 2017 Do you condemn the impact of Islam in western Europe? Which specific "impact" are you referring to? And please note that you haven't answered the simple question put to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 13 April, 2017 Share Posted 13 April, 2017 Which specific "impact" are you referring to? And please note that you haven't answered the simple question put to you. Impact; a marked effect or influence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 13 April, 2017 Share Posted 13 April, 2017 Presumably you are happy to accept the historical contributions of Islamic society to Mathematics, medicine, science, etc ? Talk us through the mathematics, medicine and science that have been undertaken in the name of Islam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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