Brexit - Post Match Reaction

[JackanorySFC]

totally agree there are no wimners in this silly move and only losers..i,ve just booked a holiday to mallorcia for 4 and its got me £300 more now ...lets face it anyone who voted out based on nothing has there was never a plan ,says a lot about them because it was not based on ecnomics. i,ve got my doubts article 50 will be triggered anytime soon.. has those in government know it will be a economic nightmare for the country.

 

Your holiday costs the same as it did in 2013 (last time the exchange rate was as it is now). Who's fault was it then? Did you thank the tories for making your holidays cheaper in the years since?

 

BTW I've just got back from 2 weeks in Pollensa, Mallorca, beautiful and cheap as **** out there for local food/ drink/ services.

 

I'm loving the exchange rate, I export services to the US and my business's turnover has increased 15% just off the back of the currency fluctuation. I have used this windfall (appreciate that is all it is) to employ a University graduate full time (started 2 weeks ago) and invest in technology.

[Wes Tender]

Your holiday costs the same as it did in 2013 (last time the exchange rate was as it is now). Who's fault was it then? Did you thank the tories for making your holidays cheaper in the years since?

 

BTW I've just got back from 2 weeks in Pollensa, Mallorca, beautiful and cheap as **** out there for local food/ drink/ services.

 

I'm loving the exchange rate, I export services to the US and my business's turnover has increased 15% just off the back of the currency fluctuation. I have used this windfall (appreciate that is all it is) to employ a University graduate full time (started 2 weeks ago) and invest in technology.

 

It was a ridiculous thing for solentstars to say, that there were no winners, only losers, and typical of his usual grammatically indecipherable bluster. Our own tourism industry has received quite a boost from the weaker pound, so there are some winners to begin with, but even in places like Spain and the Balearics where the British are major customers, significantly reduced numbers of British tourists would soon work through to result in downward adjustments to the prices of accommodation, restaurants, attractions and excursions.

[Sour Mash]

totally agree there are no wimners in this silly move and only losers..i,ve just booked a holiday to mallorcia for 4 and its got me £300 more now ...lets face it anyone who voted out based on nothing has there was never a plan ,says a lot about them because it was not based on ecnomics. i,ve got my doubts article 50 will be triggered anytime soon.. has those in government know it will be a economic nightmare for the country.

No way are your posts genuine, got to be one of the better wind-ups on here.

[moonraker]

If you need proof of the EU's success just look at the Olympics medal table, 76 Gold, 81 Silver, 83 Bronze medals, 240 in Total so much for the US of A!

[Whitey Grandad]

*yawn* That's very rude of you.

 

So your arguments are partly on articles from the LSE one and half years ago, when there was an impetus to scare us out of leaving by citing doom and gloom scenarios. The article is full of could be, might be, worst case/best case what ifs, and in any event some of the factors considered in the article had already changed in 2015/16. I could equally produce articles for the positive benefits and you would dismiss them in the same way because of their sources.

 

It describes the options available to us and the pros and cons. I know that you're not too interested in any of these but I provided the link in an attempt to inform, not convince.

 

We have had this debate before and during the referendum, so we move on to the ongoing situation now that we have voted to leave. Although it has still only been just under two months since the referendum, there have been very encouraging reactions from numerous countries around the World expressing their desire to enter trade deals with us now that we are not part of the EU and can negotiate unhampered by them, and you still have zero evidence of what trade deals we will subsequently forge with the EU.

 

This is the crux ofthe matter. Nobody, but nobody, who voted to leave knew what they were voting for. In France earlier this week my French associates thought it was totally "bizarre" that we could vote to leave without knowing what we wanted or were going to get.

 

And then it seems that we have a lovely contradiction from the two Times articles you quoted. I don't have access to the full articles, but from what I can gather, on the one hand there is not the infrastructure of expertise in the new Government Departments and on the other hand, they are employing too many bureaucrats to deal with it. Which one to believe?

 

Both are true. There is no infrastructure, not even a phone line and no expertise. Those employed so far are data gatherers and have neither knowledge nor experience of trade negotiations. The main concern seems to be where their offices are going to be.

 

One article suggests that the electorate will be furious that we replace one load of bureaucrats with another, the author appearing incapable of differentiating between the two types of bureaucrat and that it was the unaccountable power that was wielded by the EU lot which was resented. They really don't have much of a clue when it comes to reading voters' minds when it comes down to issues like this, which will hardly register with most of them at all.

 

Bureaucrats are bureaucrats whereever they are located.

 

Nobody knows what was in the minds of the voters. You yourself are not able to tell us what you personally want to see as the outcome despite repeated requests.

[Wes Tender]

Nobody knows what was in the minds of the voters. You yourself are not able to tell us what you personally want to see as the outcome despite repeated requests.

 

As stated, you are as likely to dismiss pro-Brexit arguments as I am to dismiss pro-Remain ones. However, I did read all the arguments either way and drew my own conclusions which have also been coloured by the historical way that the EU has evolved from the Common Market. Move on past the pre-referendum debate. Please.

 

I am happy for you that you have your little anecdote from your French associate. I also have business customers who are very happy that we have voted to leave the EU and they eagerly anticipate a brighter future freed from the constraints that it placed on the businesses.

 

Your assertion that EU bureaucrats such as the Commissioners are the same as ours in the corridors of Whitehall has caused me some mirth. As I said, the vast majority of the electorate were angry at the power that the unelected and unaccountable likes of Junker wielded, but the number of faceless Civil Servants employed to action our Brexit won't register with most of them.

 

I have stated several times what my reasons for voting to leave were, and our post Brexit trade with the EU was just one of them. However, if it is unacceptable for us to remain a member of the single market because as a condition we would have to accept free movement of people, then there is little reason why we couldn't continue trading with it from outside like most other countries. Like me, I'm content to believe that most of the Brexit voters weighed up the other factors that they considered to be beneficial following our leaving and balanced them against the potential parameters of our trading situation post Brexit. Most I suspect were content that those other factors weighed heavily enough in their minds to justify the possible decline in trade, but even that could be mitigated by two arguments. One was that it was not in the interests of the most influential large manufacturers of the major player countries in the EU to make it expensive or difficult to buy their products. The other was that in any event there was a massive potential to increase our trade with the emerging most successful developing economies in the World to supplement or replace the recent decline in our trade with the EU.

 

I'm pretty sure that I've expressed those views before, but maybe they didn't register with you.

 

I don't recall your vision for our future had we voted to remain in the EU. Are you one of those who thought that it would just be a continuation of the status quo? Despite the ratcheted advance of ever deeper integration into a Federal Europe, were you happy to get in even deeper, or did you think enough was enough? Were you happy to go on expanding the number of member states and the resultant increase of immigration that would entail? Were you hopeful that despite being only one member among 28, that we would be able to have enough influence to bring about reforms?

 

Actually, what you wished for had we remained in is a bit pointless now.

[shurlock]

As stated, you are as likely to dismiss pro-Brexit arguments as I am to dismiss pro-Remain ones. However, I did read all the arguments either way and drew my own conclusions which have also been coloured by the historical way that the EU has evolved from the Common Market. Move on past the pre-referendum debate. Please.

 

I am happy for you that you have your little anecdote from your French associate. I also have business customers who are very happy that we have voted to leave the EU and they eagerly anticipate a brighter future freed from the constraints that it placed on the businesses.

 

Your assertion that EU bureaucrats such as the Commissioners are the same as ours in the corridors of Whitehall has caused me some mirth. As I said, the vast majority of the electorate were angry at the power that the unelected and unaccountable likes of Junker wielded, but the number of faceless Civil Servants employed to action our Brexit won't register with most of them.

 

I have stated several times what my reasons for voting to leave were, and our post Brexit trade with the EU was just one of them. However, if it is unacceptable for us to remain a member of the single market because as a condition we would have to accept free movement of people, then there is little reason why we couldn't continue trading with it from outside like most other countries. Like me, I'm content to believe that most of the Brexit voters weighed up the other factors that they considered to be beneficial following our leaving and balanced them against the potential parameters of our trading situation post Brexit. Most I suspect were content that those other factors weighed heavily enough in their minds to justify the possible decline in trade, but even that could be mitigated by two arguments. One was that it was not in the interests of the most influential large manufacturers of the major player countries in the EU to make it expensive or difficult to buy their products. The other was that in any event there was a massive potential to increase our trade with the emerging most successful developing economies in the World to supplement or replace the recent decline in our trade with the EU.

 

I'm pretty sure that I've expressed those views before, but maybe they didn't register with you.

 

I don't recall your vision for our future had we voted to remain in the EU. Are you one of those who thought that it would just be a continuation of the status quo? Despite the ratcheted advance of ever deeper integration into a Federal Europe, were you happy to get in even deeper, or did you think enough was enough? Were you happy to go on expanding the number of member states and the resultant increase of immigration that would entail? Were you hopeful that despite being only one member among 28, that we would be able to have enough influence to bring about reforms?

 

Actually, what you wished for had we remained in is a bit pointless now.

 

 

Shalom Les.

[Wes Tender]

 

Shalom Les.

 

Cordial greetings to you, Shorlick.

[solentstars]

those on here who love pretending a fantasy is going to happen " there was no plan for exit. fact... yet those telling us we have a great future based on nothing and all these trade deals signed in months...not happening is it, and leave the single market our biggest export market which (the usa japanese and chinese.india use as a base with there investments)... which ain,t going to happen any time soon... and article 50 not been triggered yet ..lol thats the ecnomic reality. i no doubt eventually there will be a plan which will resemble basically what it is now and the self inflicted damage will look silly when historians look back. i prefer listening to experts rather than the guy down the pub.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Apart from grammar experts?

Edited 20 August, 2016 by Lord Duckhunter

[Verbal]

What kipper Tender fails to realise, with his trouble distinguishing his tuches from his elnboygn, is that the there simply was no vote to "take back control". That was just a cheap campaign slogan, not a ballot-paper question. If May decides to retain free movement but leave the EU treaty, that's still Brexit.

 

But as we're still not even at first base - with not the first clue what the government's position actually is, and with the three Brexiteers battling out silly turf wars - let's just wait and see. It doesn't look good for the three geniuses. Fox, who appears to have the most flimsy of grasps of the rules of international trade, has been slapped down by May for trying to muscle in on the FCO's patch, and Davis has been outsmarted by senior cvil servants, who've kept his recruitment down to a hundred rather than the two hundred he demanded, and has been denied the best senior talents as secondments.

 

All going splendidly so far...

[Wes Tender]

What kipper Tender fails to realise, with his trouble distinguishing his tuches from his elnboygn, is that the there simply was no vote to "take back control". That was just a cheap campaign slogan, not a ballot-paper question. If May decides to retain free movement but leave the EU treaty, that's still Brexit.

 

But as we're still not even at first base - with not the first clue what the government's position actually is, and with the three Brexiteers battling out silly turf wars - let's just wait and see. It doesn't look good for the three geniuses. Fox, who appears to have the most flimsy of grasps of the rules of international trade, has been slapped down by May for trying to muscle in on the FCO's patch, and Davis has been outsmarted by senior cvil servants, who've kept his recruitment down to a hundred rather than the two hundred he demanded, and has been denied the best senior talents as secondments.

 

All going splendidly so far...

 

You really are such a bore, Verbal diarrhoea. I suppose that you are still a bit sore since being shown up as spectacularly wrong about Corbyn's chances of being elected leader of the Labour Party a year ago.

 

Show me where I thought that "Take back control" was a ballot-paper question. You can't. You are just making things up as usual.

 

"Take back control" might have been just a slogan, but it must have been a really effective one, or you wouldn't be b*tching about it.

 

As a Conservative, I'm not much concerned with how things are progressing in the the mere two months since we voted to leave the EU. How is your party faring?

[moonraker]

I see the Swiss referendum to Take Back ControlTM of their borders is going swimmingly! The Swiss people spoke and quick as flash nothing has happened, and nothing will, the EU has flat-out refused to enter into negotiations on this topic. It seems not even those oh so important German Car manufactures can persuade the EU to grant the Swiss what they want, and they do sell a lot of their high end models in the Alpine wonderland.

[Wes Tender]

I see the Swiss referendum to Take Back ControlTM of their borders is going swimmingly! The Swiss people spoke and quick as flash nothing has happened, and nothing will, the EU has flat-out refused to enter into negotiations on this topic. It seems not even those oh so important German Car manufactures can persuade the EU to grant the Swiss what they want, and they do sell a lot of their high end models in the Alpine wonderland.

 

What a pathetic argument. Switzerland registered around 323,000 new cars last year, of which around 145,000 were German made, aided by a strong franc against the euro.

 

http://www.best-selling-cars.com/switzerland/2015-full-year-switzerland-best-selling-car-brands/

 

In the UK on the other hand, half of the U.K.'s 2.6 million annual new-car sales are built by German-owned companies and Germany exports about 810,000 passenger cars a year to Britain.

 

I think that it is fair to argue that when it comes to negotiating terms with the EU, we have rather more clout than Switzerland does.

[Whitey Grandad]

What a pathetic argument. Switzerland registered around 323,000 new cars last year, of which around 145,000 were German made, aided by a strong franc against the euro.

 

http://www.best-selling-cars.com/switzerland/2015-full-year-switzerland-best-selling-car-brands/

 

In the UK on the other hand, half of the U.K.'s 2.6 million annual new-car sales are built by German-owned companies and Germany exports about 810,000 passenger cars a year to Britain.

 

I think that it is fair to argue that when it comes to negotiating terms with the EU, we have rather more clout than Switzerland does.

But we have to deal with 26 countries other than Germany and some of them are not too bothered about car exports.

 

What exactly is this 'clout' whereof you speak?

[buctootim]

What a pathetic argument. Switzerland registered around 323,000 new cars last year, of which around 145,000 were German made, aided by a strong franc against the euro.

 

http://www.best-selling-cars.com/switzerland/2015-full-year-switzerland-best-selling-car-brands/

 

In the UK on the other hand, half of the U.K.'s 2.6 million annual new-car sales are built by German-owned companies and Germany exports about 810,000 passenger cars a year to Britain..

 

Yet another half thought out half baked assertion from you Wes. congrats on consistency. Ownership of a company is irrelevant, its where they are made that counts in trade deals.

 

Britain is the worlds sixth biggest car exporter and 57.5% of our car exports went to the EU last year. We may import more cars from Germany than we export there - but Germany is one vote out of 28 in the EU. We have positive car exports to most of the other EU nations. We need them more than they need us. . http://www.worldstopexports.com/car-exports-country/

Edited 22 August, 2016 by buctootim

[Verbal]

What a pathetic argument. Switzerland registered around 323,000 new cars last year, of which around 145,000 were German made, aided by a strong franc against the euro.

 

http://www.best-selling-cars.com/switzerland/2015-full-year-switzerland-best-selling-car-brands/

 

In the UK on the other hand, half of the U.K.'s 2.6 million annual new-car sales are built by German-owned companies and Germany exports about 810,000 passenger cars a year to Britain.

 

I think that it is fair to argue that when it comes to negotiating terms with the EU, we have rather more clout than Switzerland does.

 

You've completely failed to comprehend moonraker's point. Read the post again.

 

The Swiss have got precisely nowhere after almost two years of negotiations, and face ejection from access to the single market, because they could not reach any sort of compromise on freedom of movement. Their self-imposed deadline (by a binding referendum, unlike ours) runs out in February. It doesn't matter how much more 'clout' you imagine we have. Even the most emollient of EU figures, like Michael Roth, have said: 'no cherry picking' on freedom of movement. None. We are not going to given something the Swiss didn't get.

 

The Tories - your former party - are angling for either EEA membership (Norway) or internal market access (Switzerland for now) - and freedom of movement is non-negotiable in both models. Those prattling on about the Canada model forget that (a) it's still not a signed treaty, after seven years of negotiation; (b) it doesn't cover services (80% of the British economy); and © The EU is only a small part of Canada's trade, unlike us.

 

Regards, (((Verbal))).

[moonraker]

What a pathetic argument. Switzerland registered around 323,000 new cars last year, of which around 145,000 were German made, aided by a strong franc against the euro.

 

http://www.best-selling-cars.com/switzerland/2015-full-year-switzerland-best-selling-car-brands/

 

In the UK on the other hand, half of the U.K.'s 2.6 million annual new-car sales are built by German-owned companies and Germany exports about 810,000 passenger cars a year to Britain.

 

I think that it is fair to argue that when it comes to negotiating terms with the EU, we have rather more clout than Switzerland does.

Hook line and sinker, as per usual, the German car manufactures have nothing to do with it except in Brexiters fantasy land. The EU will not grant an country dispensation on freedom of movement and access to the single market. How about addressing the point that we are going to have great difficulty in realising the deal that was widely implied by the Brexit camp, access to the single market and restrictions on freedom of movement, it isn’t going to happen and Boris, DD and Liam cant do anything about it, so what will we actually end up with that will be better than we had before.

[Wes Tender]

Four posts full of waffle from the resident remain camp's chief cheer-leaders who have totally missed the point and use it as a springboard for launching their little attacks in different directions.

 

All four of you, reread the bit in Moonraker's post that I highlighted and try and concentrate on that part only. That is the part that I responded to, the really weak argument made by Moonraker about the Swiss not having much clout compared to us when it comes to gaining leverage on the strongest member state of the EU, Germany, via their biggest industrialists.

 

As for all of the rest of the waffle, I am quite content to wait and see what transpires over the next few months, rather than clutching at straws like you lot do every day.

 

For Verbal D's benefit, I have a current Conservative membership card. Is your Labour membership still current, or did you tear it up in disgust when they lurched leftwards by appointing Jeremy despite your assurances that it would never happen.

[moonraker]

Four posts full of waffle from the resident remain camp's chief cheer-leaders who have totally missed the point and use it as a springboard for launching their little attacks in different directions.

 

All four of you, reread the bit in Moonraker's post that I highlighted and try and concentrate on that part only. That is the part that I responded to, the really weak argument made by Moonraker about the Swiss not having much clout compared to us when it comes to gaining leverage on the strongest member state of the EU, Germany, via their biggest industrialists.

 

As for all of the rest of the waffle, I am quite content to wait and see what transpires over the next few months, rather than clutching at straws like you lot do every day.

 

For Verbal D's benefit, I have a current Conservative membership card. Is your Labour membership still current, or did you tear it up in disgust when they lurched leftwards by appointing Jeremy despite your assurances that it would never happen.

 

As the resident Brexiter in chief try addresing the issue please, how will things change for the better, trade wise? The EU will not give any concessions on freedom of movement, so what control has been taken back? If you took my reference to the Car manufacturers literally then there really is no hope for you.

[Wes Tender]

As the resident Brexiter in chief try addresing the issue please, how will things change for the better, trade wise? The EU will not give any concessions on freedom of movement, so what control has been taken back? If you took my reference to the Car manufacturers literally then there really is no hope for you.

 

Look, please read what I said, that I am content to wait and see what transpires regarding the post-Brexit arrangements with the EU once we have activated Article 50. I am not going to be drawn into speculation about which direction we will take. If you lot are happy to produce your own personal fantasies of which route we will take and what the consequences would be based on comparisons made with very diverse Countries to us, then fill your boots. Several times I have pointed out that there are numerous countries who trade with the EU without them having to accept the free movement of peoples, but somehow this doesn't register with you lot.

 

Regarding your reference to the German Car manufacturers and the Swiss, you are wriggling like mad to get out of being ridiculed for it by now claiming that you were not serious about it.

[Whitey Grandad]

Look, please read what I said, that I am content to wait and see what transpires regarding the post-Brexit arrangements with the EU once we have activated Article 50. I am not going to be drawn into speculation about which direction we will take. If you lot are happy to produce your own personal fantasies of which route we will take and what the consequences would be based on comparisons made with very diverse Countries to us, then fill your boots. Several times I have pointed out that there are numerous countries who trade with the EU without them having to accept the free movement of peoples, but somehow this doesn't register with you lot.

 

Regarding your reference to the German Car manufacturers and the Swiss, you are wriggling like mad to get out of being ridiculed for it by now claiming that you were not serious about it.

 

Wes, I get the impression that you are happy with Brexit at any price and are not too bothered about what trading situation we eventually end up with. Of course countries trade with each other, it's the costs, difficulties and overheads involved that are significant.

[Guided Missile]

Citi’s UK Economic Surprise Index has surged to a three-year high following a week of unexpectedly decent UK economic data.

The index, which tracks how data compare with economists’ forecasts, surged from less than 50 to a high of 72.2 last week, the strongest level since 2013, writes Joel Lewin.

A slew of eagerly data last week, offering some of the first clues as to how the UK economy has fared following the Brexit vote, proved surprisingly robust.

On Thursday, it transpired that retail sales for July grew 1.5 per cent, topping forecasts of 0.3 per cent growth.

On Wednesday the Office for National Statistics said unemployment held steady at an 11-year low of 4.9 per cent, offering no sign yet of the post-Brexit rise to 5.5 per cent envisaged by Bank of England governor Mark Carney.

The unexpectedly decent data helped bounce the pound 1.6 per cent higher against the dollar during the course of the week.

[moonraker]

Look, please read what I said, that I am content to wait and see what transpires regarding the post-Brexit arrangements with the EU once we have activated Article 50. I am not going to be drawn into speculation about which direction we will take. If you lot are happy to produce your own personal fantasies of which route we will take and what the consequences would be based on comparisons made with very diverse Countries to us, then fill your boots. Several times I have pointed out that there are numerous countries who trade with the EU without them having to accept the free movement of peoples, but somehow this doesn't register with you lot.

 

Regarding your reference to the German Car manufacturers and the Swiss, you are wriggling like mad to get out of being ridiculed for it by now claiming that you were not serious about it.

It's called sarcasm, the German car manufactures have been played by you Brexiters as our saviour, which is ironic as you supposedly want to take control. It is obvious that all that matters to you is being out of the EU and to hell with the consequences.

[Wes Tender]

Wes, I get the impression that you are happy with Brexit at any price and are not too bothered about what trading situation we eventually end up with. Of course countries trade with each other, it's the costs, difficulties and overheads involved that are significant.

 

You continue to draw your own conclusions if you wish as to what I would be content with as the price of our Brexit, but I am quite confident that we will end up in a few years reflecting that the decision was justified because our future prosperity and the subsequent decline of the EU will make us grateful that we left. You and the remain lot keep rabbiting on and on about trade, whereas that is not all it is about. Of course it is important, but we will do just fine and enjoy the other benefits even more.

[Wes Tender]

It's called sarcasm, the German car manufactures have been played by you Brexiters as our saviour, which is ironic as you supposedly want to take control. It is obvious that all that matters to you is being out of the EU and to hell with the consequences.

 

Even more wriggling. Bless.

[shurlock]

You continue to draw your own conclusions if you wish as to what I would be content with as the price of our Brexit, but I am quite confident that we will end up in a few years reflecting that the decision was justified because our future prosperity and the subsequent decline of the EU will make us grateful that we left. You and the remain lot keep rabbiting on and on about trade, whereas that is not all it is about. Of course it is important, but we will do just fine and enjoy the other benefits even more.

 

[Johnny Bognor]

LOL

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/aug/20/brexit-eu-referendum-economy-project-fear

 

..But it is obvious that the sky has not fallen in as a result of the referendum, and those who said it would look a bit silly

Edited 23 August, 2016 by Johnny Bognor

[Wes Tender]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/aug/23/euroscepticism-middle-aged-spread-uk-eu-referendum-europe

 

Indications pointing towards the subsequent decline of the EU.

[moonraker]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/aug/23/euroscepticism-middle-aged-spread-uk-eu-referendum-europe

 

Indications pointing towards the subsequent decline of the EU.

 

That the EU has problems has never been in dispute, and many of us rabid remainer’s have argued that the EU is not perfect and needs reform. Politicians are survivors, and I believe they will act to ensure the EU not only survives but thrives, whilst reforming it for the better. There are already many signs that the issues raised are being taken seriously, shame we will not be in a position to benefit. Its always interesting how easy it is to have two different interpretations of the same article.

[Whitey Grandad]

You continue to draw your own conclusions if you wish as to what I would be content with as the price of our Brexit, but I am quite confident that we will end up in a few years reflecting that the decision was justified because our future prosperity and the subsequent decline of the EU will make us grateful that we left. You and the remain lot keep rabbiting on and on about trade, whereas that is not all it is about. Of course it is important, but we will do just fine and enjoy the other benefits even more.

 

I would be very interested in what these 'other benefits' might be. So far there is not a lot to get excited about.

 

Trade is extremely important. It also leads to greater understanding and cooperation.

[Batman]

That the EU has problems has never been in dispute, and many of us rabid remainer’s have argued that the EU is not perfect and needs reform. Politicians are survivors, and I believe they will act to ensure the EU not only survives but thrives, whilst reforming it for the better. There are already many signs that the issues raised are being taken seriously, shame we will not be in a position to benefit. Its always interesting how easy it is to have two different interpretations of the same article.

 

in the mean time, the EU is pushing ahead with idea of an EU Army (remember when Clegg said that was pure fantasy) and Junker has stated that border checkpoints 'are the worst invention ever'

 

no change there then

[Wes Tender]

That the EU has problems has never been in dispute, and many of us rabid remainer’s have argued that the EU is not perfect and needs reform. Politicians are survivors, and I believe they will act to ensure the EU not only survives but thrives, whilst reforming it for the better. There are already many signs that the issues raised are being taken seriously, shame we will not be in a position to benefit. Its always interesting how easy it is to have two different interpretations of the same article.

 

I'm glad that you think that the EU will take steps to reform itself, but I think that you are deluding yourself. The evidence of its past history shows that the path that it has chosen towards becoming a Federal United States of Europe means that it will stubbornly resist the reforms that are required by the increasingly disillusioned influential section of the European electorate highlighted by this article. This became clear enough when the British Prime Minister threatened that he would campaign for the UK to leave the EU if the reforms we demanded were not met and they hardly budged at all.

 

There are the politicians of the member states and then there are the Commissioners and it is they who instead of adopting the position that perhaps they ought to address the issues that caused us to leave, take the stance that we should be made an example of to discourage others from leaving. Their response to concerns that the EU is lurching towards becoming a super state, is to press for further progress along that route.

 

The politicians can be voted out by the electorate, but the Commissioners cannot. Therein lies the crux of the problem

[moonraker]

I'm glad that you think that the EU will take steps to reform itself, but I think that you are deluding yourself. The evidence of its past history shows that the path that it has chosen towards becoming a Federal United States of Europe means that it will stubbornly resist the reforms that are required by the increasingly disillusioned influential section of the European electorate highlighted by this article. This became clear enough when the British Prime Minister threatened that he would campaign for the UK to leave the EU if the reforms we demanded were not met and they hardly budged at all.

 

There are the politicians of the member states and then there are the Commissioners and it is they who instead of adopting the position that perhaps they ought to address the issues that caused us to leave, take the stance that we should be made an example of to discourage others from leaving. Their response to concerns that the EU is lurching towards becoming a super state, is to press for further progress along that route.

 

The politicians can be voted out by the electorate, but the Commissioners cannot. Therein lies the crux of the problem

 

No ever said change would be easy, but as I said politicians are survivors and while they may take a while to fully acknowledge the mood of their electorates then even within the EU they can act. The commission acts under the authority of the council of minsters and tehrefore it can be reformed and needs to be. I am sure I have as great a synicism and dislike of the current structure as you, I would just rather stay in and fight for what is right.

[Whitey Grandad]

I'm glad that you think that the EU will take steps to reform itself, but I think that you are deluding yourself. The evidence of its past history shows that the path that it has chosen towards becoming a Federal United States of Europe means that it will stubbornly resist the reforms that are required by the increasingly disillusioned influential section of the European electorate highlighted by this article. This became clear enough when the British Prime Minister threatened that he would campaign for the UK to leave the EU if the reforms we demanded were not met and they hardly budged at all.

 

There are the politicians of the member states and then there are the Commissioners and it is they who instead of adopting the position that perhaps they ought to address the issues that caused us to leave, take the stance that we should be made an example of to discourage others from leaving. Their response to concerns that the EU is lurching towards becoming a super state, is to press for further progress along that route.

 

The politicians can be voted out by the electorate, but the Commissioners cannot. Therein lies the crux of the problem

 

The commissioners have no power. Everything is controlled by the Council of Ministers. All this talk about 'ever closer union' is just more of the empty rhetoric. It sounds good and they all like to pretend that they support it but everybody knows that in actuality it isn't going to happen. They are just playing the game but the English take every word literally.

[Wes Tender]

The commissioners have no power. Everything is controlled by the Council of Ministers. All this talk about 'ever closer union' is just more of the empty rhetoric. It sounds good and they all like to pretend that they support it but everybody knows that in actuality it isn't going to happen. They are just playing the game but the English take every word literally.

 

Silly us, not realising that the Treaties of Maastricht, Amsterdam, Nice and Lisbon were all just empty rhetoric, just a game and we should not have taken the rules literally.

[Trader]

Keep going Wes, you got 'em on the run!

 

[Whitey Grandad]

Silly us, not realising that the Treaties of Maastricht, Amsterdam, Nice and Lisbon were all just empty rhetoric, just a game and we should not have taken the rules literally.

 

Good. Now you're beginning to understand we'll get you thinking like a Continental eventually.

[Trader]

Good. Now you're beginning to understand we'll get you thinking rtnerslike a Continental eventually.

 

By which you mean ignore the rules you've signed up to.

 

I must say I've noticed that over the last 40 years from our supposed partners, that is only obey the rules which suit thier particular country.

 

Maybe it's stupid of us, but we tend not to do that, when we're signed up we tend to follow the rules religiously.

 

Silly us.

 

But we're out now, suck it up.

[moonraker]

By which you mean ignore the rules you've signed up to.

 

I must say I've noticed that over the last 40 years from our supposed partners, that is only obey the rules which suit thier particular country.

 

Maybe it's stupid of us, but we tend not to do that, when we're signed up we tend to follow the rules religiously.

 

Silly us.

 

But we're out now, suck it up.

 

Another Brexmyth, whilst true that the UK is not the worst offender in terms of non-compliance with EU law neither are we the best that the Holier than thou attitude of Brexit would have us believe. At least 4 EU countries have a better compliance record that the UK, while most others are similar on compliance. There are admittedly a handful of EU members who consistently flout the rules, and funny old thing, they have significantly more Court of Justice rulings against them than the UK, unfortunately your wont find this information in the Daily Express or Mail. By the way were not out, all that has happened is a non binding plebicite was marginally in favour of leaving the EU, Brexit does not mean Brexit yet!

[Whitey Grandad]

By which you mean ignore the rules you've signed up to.

 

I must say I've noticed that over the last 40 years from our supposed partners, that is only obey the rules which suit thier particular country.

 

Maybe it's stupid of us, but we tend not to do that, when we're signed up we tend to follow the rules religiously.

 

Silly us.

 

But we're out now, suck it up.

 

That is a very childish expression.

[Wes Tender]

Another Brexmyth, whilst true that the UK is not the worst offender in terms of non-compliance with EU law neither are we the best that the Holier than thou attitude of Brexit would have us believe. At least 4 EU countries have a better compliance record that the UK, while most others are similar on compliance. There are admittedly a handful of EU members who consistently flout the rules, and funny old thing, they have significantly more Court of Justice rulings against them than the UK, unfortunately your wont find this information in the Daily Express or Mail. By the way were not out, all that has happened is a non binding plebicite was marginally in favour of leaving the EU, Brexit does not mean Brexit yet!

 

Time that you and Whitey revisited this piece posted by Trader before the referendum, if you bothered to watch it in the first place, that is.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9Ce8mx2nCQ

 

Once you have watched it, I would welcome your comments refuting anything that you feel is factually wrong.

 

I admire the sheer brazen front where you dismiss the clear majority for Brexit in the largest ever public vote in British history as being marginally in favour of leaving. It was a majority of over one and a quarter million. I'm sure that you would have defended it stoutly if it was the other way about. Our Prime Minister says that Brexit means Brexit, so I'm more inclined to believe her. Sorry.

[Trader]

That is a very childish expression.

 

But short and to the point.

 

I see no point in this continued argument, we're out, no matter what moonraker says, and all this moaning is not going to alter that fact.

 

Suck it up.

[moonraker]

Time that you and Whitey revisited this piece posted by Trader before the referendum, if you bothered to watch it in the first place, that is.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9Ce8mx2nCQ

 

Once you have watched it, I would welcome your comments refuting anything that you feel is factually wrong.

 

I admire the sheer brazen front where you dismiss the clear majority for Brexit in the largest ever public vote in British history as being marginally in favour of leaving. It was a majority of over one and a quarter million. I'm sure that you would have defended it stoutly if it was the other way about. Our Prime Minister says that Brexit means Brexit, so I'm more inclined to believe her. Sorry.

 

It was marginal, about the same as one city, Birmingham, or put another way a 2% swing would change the result, that is marginal by any measure. If using 1.25 million instead of 3.8 % makes you feel good so be it. Had remain won by the same margin I of coarse would be happy, but I would also accept that a very large minority voted to leave and would not be harping on about winners and losers but discussing how best our nation moves forward and should address the genuine concerns of those who supported leave. I am afraid since the vote many Brexiters have come across as patronising gits, ironic given what was said about reaminers prior to the poll, whose most consistent trait is using repetitive childish slogans, “suck it up losers”.

[Lord Duckhunter]

The EU might reform itself and change , but it'll be in the wrong direction . The only change the EU want is more EU, the only way to fix the Euro is more EU . If there is going to be reform in the EU it'll be even further away from what the UK wanted . Thank god the British people were sensible to say " enough is enough" .

[Whitey Grandad]

But short and to the point.

 

I see no point in this continued argument, we're out, no matter what moonraker says, and all this moaning is not going to alter that fact.

 

Suck it up.

Repeating it is even more childish. Such comments belong in the playground. I'm very disappointed in you.

[Guided Missile]

Repeating it is even more childish. Such comments belong in the playground. I'm very disappointed in you.

 

[Guided Missile]

Repeating it is even more childish. Such comments belong in the playground. I'm very disappointed in you.

Or....

[Guided Missile]

Repeating it is even more childish. Such comments belong in the playground. I'm very disappointed in you.

Finally...

[Wes Tender]

It was marginal, about the same as one city, Birmingham, or put another way a 2% swing would change the result, that is marginal by any measure. If using 1.25 million instead of 3.8 % makes you feel good so be it.

 

Of course it would probably have been a bigger majority had the Government not spent £9 million of taxpayers' money posting Remain propaganda to every household, or not allowed an extra 48 hours for people to register to vote, because the poor darlings couldn't be bothered to register until an hour before the deadline and crashed the site. The unfortunate murder of Jo Cox a few days before polling day didn't help either. What could we be talking of here altogether? Another 3 or 4% on to the leave vote?

 

And yes, I'll take the one and a quarter million majority figure rather than your "only one city", citing second largest city Birmingham, rather than comparing it to the combined populations of several other notable but smaller cities. If unemployment rose by one and a quarter million as a result of Brexit, would you call that a significant increase, or dismiss it glibly as merely the same number living in one city like Birmingham?

 

But as others say, it is all a bit futile arguing about it now that it is a done deal.