Russia

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, Lighthouse said:

It's not just the West who've had a disaster in Afghanistan. Boots on the ground, who knows but if I had to wager their air force against F22s, F35s, Typhoons, F15s and FA18s I know what my money's on.

The west won't be launching a full scale war against a nuclear armed regime like Russia. Its why everyone is scrabbling to impose sanctions with no intention of doing something meaningful. 

[hypochondriac]

2 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

It's not just the West who've had a disaster in Afghanistan. Boots on the ground, who knows but if I had to wager their air force against F22s, F35s, Typhoons, F15s and FA18s I know what my money's on.

The lack of any coherent plan and the leadership vacuum in the white house will have been noted by Putin and the CCP and imo is one of the reasons why this is happening now. Anyone semi competent in America and this would be playing out differently. 

[hypochondriac]

5 minutes ago, Mystic Force said:

So I take it we have given up on Ukraine, its now Russian and we accept it. Looks like BoJos wrist slap did not stop them like MLG told me it would. 

Nothing that Johnson or anyone in the west could have done to prevent this. 

[Lighthouse]

Just now, hypochondriac said:

The west won't be launching a full scale war against a nuclear armed regime like Russia. Its why everyone is scrabbling to impose sanctions with no intention of doing something meaningful. 

Again with the assumption that the whole nuclear thing is one way traffic. You can't simply say that NATO wont risk nuclear war but Russia will just casually wander into NATO countries without a second thought. That is a huge step into the abyss for Putin too.

[Matthew Le God]

6 minutes ago, Mystic Force said:

So I take it we have given up on Ukraine, its now Russian and we accept it. Looks like BoJos wrist slap did not stop them like MLG told me it would. 

No I didn't. Why are you making up things I did not say?

[Turkish]

1 hour ago, aintforever said:

It's like he's just read the Daily Mail, had some sort of a breakdown and shat a load of words out.

It's mental how anyone can connect Russia starting WW3 to footballers kneeling before kick-off. 

Bit like worrying about someone you dont know giving someone else you dont know covid because two years ago someone you dont know jumped off Durdle Door, yes?

[Jimmy_D]

3 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I can't see the likes of America stationing troops in a country to die in a country they know nothing about. Expect we will find out shortly. 

The USA has already deployed the 82nd Airbourne to NATO’s borders.

[badgerx16]

18 minutes ago, RedArmy said:

You could give the average American 200 guesses to point out Estonia on a map of the world and they wouldn’t find it.

You could give the average American 200 guesses to point out their state capital on a map.

[badgerx16]

20 minutes ago, egg said:

Do you think the USA and other Nato members will put troops on the ground and shoot Russian troops if they invade Latvia or Lithuania? They should under article 5, but that's a world war. 

If Putin is made to believe it, that is all that matters.

[RedArmy]

2 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

You could give the average American 200 guesses to point out their state capital on a map.

Touché

[hypochondriac]

7 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

Again with the assumption that the whole nuclear thing is one way traffic. You can't simply say that NATO wont risk nuclear war but Russia will just casually wander into NATO countries without a second thought. That is a huge step into the abyss for Putin too.

No Western nation is going to fire a nuke at Russia unless one is fired at them first. Can we say the same for Russia? 

[trousers]

Just now, badgerx16 said:

If Putin is made to believe it, that is all that matters.

Fingers crossed he doesn't read Saintsweb then... 

[Whitey Grandad]

59 minutes ago, egg said:

Putin can cause damage on umpteen countries with his nukes. The west have more to lose than him in a game of brinkmanship. I don't think the west, not the least USA, would risk armageddon for the likes of Lithuania. 

Russia would be wiped out along with all the others.

[hypochondriac]

6 minutes ago, Jimmy_D said:

The USA has already deployed the 82nd Airbourne to NATO’s borders.

Do you believe that once Putin has conquered Ukraine that he will stop there? 

[moonraker]

16 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I can't see the likes of America stationing troops in a country to die in a country they know nothing about. Expect we will find out shortly. 

The average American may not know nothing about the Baltic countries but the state department does.  It’s an easy sell to the MAGA hordes, fighting the pinko commies, the will be queuing around the corner, all armed with their own weapons 😂

[Jimmy_D]

5 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Do you believe that once Putin has conquered Ukraine that he will stop there? 

No? Neither does the USA by the look of it.

He’s stated that he wants to restore the Russian Empire. He’ll carry on doing that unless the cost is too high.

[Lighthouse]

1 minute ago, hypochondriac said:

No Western nation is going to fire a nuke at Russia unless one is fired at them first. Can we say the same for Russia? 

If Putin were to launch an offensive on a NATO country, we repelled them with conventional force, Putin threw his toys out the pram and ordered a nuclear first stike against the West, he would be stopped. In that moment he basically says to every person in Russia, "you and your families will be vapourised so I can be emperor of Vilnius!" Then it's every man for himself, you've literally nothing to lose by trying to kill or overthrow him.

[Mystic Force]

I checked with the guy I share an office with, who is very much average, and he could point to Charleston, WV but did not know where Estonia was.

[badgerx16]

2 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

No Western nation is going to fire a nuke at Russia unless one is fired at them first. Can we say the same for Russia? 

There have been multiple wars and smaller military engagements involving nuclear armed states since 1945, and we are still in the situation that the only nuclear weapons ever used in anger are the first 2 created. The first country to use one would not only suffer the response from it's opposing side, but all other countries around the World would condemn it.

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, badgerx16 said:

There have been multiple wars and smaller military engagements involving nuclear armed states since 1945, and we are still in the situation that the only nuclear weapons ever used in anger are the first 2 created. The first country to use one would not only suffer the response from it's opposing side, but all other countries around the World would condemn it.

So Russia invades Lithuania and the West strikes back, risking the lives of their people and even the security of their own countries in the process? Starting a game of chicken with someone like Putin doesn't seem smart. 

[hypochondriac]

5 minutes ago, moonraker said:

The average American may not know nothing about the Baltic countries but the state department does.  It’s an easy sell to the MAGA hordes, fighting the pinko commies, the will be queuing around the corner, all armed with their own weapons 😂

Really weird post. 

[badgerx16]

5 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Do you believe that once Putin has conquered Ukraine that he will stop there? 

Putin is a mad bastard, but he isn't completely stupid. Ukraine is not in NATO, which he knows gives him an effective free hand militarily, and his intention is not to annexex the whole country, it is to re-impose the pro-Russian political regime that existed under Yanukovych.

[Jimmy_D]

2 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

So Russia invades Lithuania and the West strikes back, risking the lives of their people and even the security of their own countries in the process? Starting a game of chicken with someone like Putin doesn't seem smart. 

So Putin gets to invade whoever he wants because he might just be MAD enough to be the first to use a nuke?

The line would have to be drawn somewhere.

[hypochondriac]

6 minutes ago, Jimmy_D said:

No? Neither does the USA by the look of it.

He’s stated that he wants to restore the Russian Empire. He’ll carry on doing that unless the cost is too high.

So other than a token show of force and some sanctions, do you think that the West is going to get drawn into some full scale war once Latvia or its equivalent is invaded? Because I can't see the public in these countries going for it, least of all the likes of Biden. 

[Lighthouse]

3 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

So Russia invades Lithuania and the West strikes back, risking the lives of their people and even the security of their own countries in the process? Starting a game of chicken with someone like Putin doesn't seem smart. 

So... his tanks can keep going until they reach Bordeaux?

[badgerx16]

4 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

So Russia invades Lithuania and the West strikes back, risking the lives of their people and even the security of their own countries in the process? Starting a game of chicken with someone like Putin doesn't seem smart. 

So instead we let him do whatever he wants ?

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, badgerx16 said:

Putin is a mad bastard, but he isn't completely stupid. Ukraine is not in NATO, which he knows gives him an effective free hand militarily, and his intention is not to annexex the whole country, it is to re-impose the pro-Russian political regime that existed under Yanukovych.

He's not mad, he's clearly a very canny operator and shrewd which is why he's held power for so long. I completely disagree with you that it is not his intention to an ex the country. His clear and obvious intention is to restore the soviet Union starting with Ukraine and then expanding from there. 

[badgerx16]

1 minute ago, hypochondriac said:

He's not mad, he's clearly a very canny operator and shrewd which is why he's held power for so long. I completely disagree with you that it is not his intention to an ex the country. His clear and obvious intention is to restore the soviet Union starting with Ukraine and then expanding from there. 

 

1 minute ago, hypochondriac said:

 

And where, therefore, would you draw the line ?

Edited 24 February, 2022 by badgerx16

[hypochondriac]

2 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

So... his tanks can keep going until they reach Bordeaux?

I think he will get a lot further than some people imagine on here. People don't want their comfortable lives disrupted and the calibure of politician has declined to such an extent that none will have the backbone to push back if Putin goes at a slow enough pace. Do you really think lightweights like Macron or Boris are going to sanction ground offensives against a juggernaut like Russia led by someone who will happily pay the cost in bodies to get what he wants? NATO is dead. 

[Lighthouse]

1 minute ago, hypochondriac said:

He's not mad, he's clearly a very canny operator and shrewd

So he isn't mad, he's canny and shrewd.... but he will quite willingly see his entire empire turned to radioactive ash, for the sake of some Lithuanian farmland and pine forest?

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, badgerx16 said:

 

And where, therefore, would you draw the line ?

I'd fight him as early as possible but that would involve real pain for all of us and real world consequences and western political leaders aren't prepared to do that. It's not about where I would draw the line, it's about the lack of conviction or any sort of courage beyond platitudes from our political class that will let Putin carry on. 

[Jimmy_D]

4 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

So other than a token show of force and some sanctions, do you think that the West is going to get drawn into some full scale war once Latvia or its equivalent is invaded? Because I can't see the public in these countries going for it, least of all the likes of Biden. 

Like I said, boots would be on the ground before an invasion. The danger would be Putin thinking that’s a bluff, but NATO isn’t going to sacrifice a member country in hope that that’s enough for Putin to be satisfied.

[badgerx16]

I wonder what underlying domestic problems Russia is undergoing have prompted this distraction.

[whelk]

38 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Also Trump is a buffoon but you can't tell me that this situation would be worse if he were still in charge. 

He woudl do whatever to ensure the piss videos don’t get aired. He is the biggest coward going.

Putin was laughing at Biden leaving Afghanistan. Basically said we’ve had enough so a green light to Putin

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, Jimmy_D said:

Like I said, boots would be on the ground before an invasion. The danger would be Putin thinking that’s a bluff, but NATO isn’t going to sacrifice a member country in hope that that’s enough for Putin to be satisfied.

You have more faith in me that the West has the confidence that it has something worth fighting for in small Eastern European countries. My view is that Putin desires Soviet territory much more than the West wants to defend it otherwise they would have done something beyond shrugging their shoulders when Russia took Crimea. 

[whelk]

22 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Do you believe that once Putin has conquered Ukraine that he will stop there? 

Ukraine is a large country to conquer. Just because he has troops and fired rockets it is a far cry from ever conquering.

[whelk]

25 minutes ago, trousers said:

Fingers crossed he doesn't read Saintsweb then... 

if he did I suspect he would conclude it some forum from a psychiatric ward

[Lighthouse]

1 minute ago, badgerx16 said:

I wonder what underlying domestic problems Russia is undergoing have prompted this distraction.

A sh*tty economy which is tumbling down the world order, soon to be 13th, a plummeting birth rate, exports which are 75% hydrocarbons which the world is moving away from and a whole bunch of neighbours who want nothing more to do with Russia and everything to do with the EU. He clung on to his last friend in Europe, Lukashenko, by the skin of his teeth, in the face of mass protests and he's scared they will be the last two dominoes to fall. Now he faces a long and protracted occupation of a country which hates him, an increasing body count and massive economic sanctions.

[hypochondriac]

2 minutes ago, whelk said:

Ukraine is a large country to conquer. Just because he has troops and fired rockets it is a far cry from ever conquering.

So you think he is going to take back the two regions and not go any further? That his intention isn't to overthrow the Ukrainian government and reclaim what he views as rightfully his? Did you not listen to his speech the other day? 

[whelk]

1 minute ago, hypochondriac said:

So you think he is going to take back the two regions and not go any further? That his intention isn't to overthrow the Ukrainian government and reclaim what he views as rightfully his? Did you not listen to his speech the other day? 

Intention is one thing. You seem to be in awe of Putin, or shit scared as if he is some sort of unstoppable force. You decry NATO’s effectiveness. All rather sad how effective the brain washing has been. Ohh big tough speech from Putin. Seems to have worked on some though.

[whelk]

6 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

A sh*tty economy which is tumbling down the world order, soon to be 13th, a plummeting birth rate, exports which are 75% hydrocarbons which the world is moving away from and a whole bunch of neighbours who want nothing more to do with Russia and everything to do with the EU. He clung on to his last friend in Europe, Lukashenko, by the skin of his teeth, in the face of mass protests and he's scared they will be the last two dominoes to fall. Now he faces a long and protracted occupation of a country which hates him, an increasing body count and massive economic sanctions.

That’s the spirit Lighthouse 

[hypochondriac]

3 minutes ago, whelk said:

Intention is one thing. You seem to be in awe of Putin, or shit scared as if he is some sort of unstoppable force. You decry NATO’s effectiveness. All rather sad how effective the brain washing has been. Ohh big tough speech from Putin. Seems to have worked on some though.

No I'm realistic about how serious Putin is  unlike many of the talking heads who've been saying it was all a bluff for weeks or those who think we can stop him with some piddly little sanctions. You're the one with your head seemingly in the clouds, swallowing Russian propaganda about them sending in a peacekeeping force because they've been asked to by Russian separatists in Ukraine. We will see won't we if he simply goes into those two regions and no further then we will know you were right and there was never any intention to invade further. If not though will you be coming back on here to admit you were wrong? 

Edited 24 February, 2022 by hypochondriac

[whelk]

Imagine if Saintsweb was going in 1939? “We’re all doomed” what’s the point they have more stuff than us let’s give up. Embarrassing 

[Jimmy_D]

2 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

So you think he is going to take back the two regions and not go any further? That his intention isn't to overthrow the Ukrainian government and reclaim what he views as rightfully his? Did you not listen to his speech the other day? 

Gambling on NATO breaking a treaty and sacrificing member countries is a very different prospect for Putin than invading a country that’s been denied entry to NATO so far, at least partly because of the risk of conflict with Russia.

I think Putin has gone too quickly in Ukraine as well. He doesn’t even have the fig leaf of being in conflict in the separatist regions before launching a full scale invasion.

The unity shown against that may well be greater than Putin expected, and far more costly than he was counting on, not to mention being far more difficult to justify to the Russian people, even with State Media.

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, whelk said:

Imagine if Saintsweb was going in 1939? “We’re all doomed” what’s the point they have more stuff than us let’s give up. Embarrassing 

I'm guessing you're neville chamberlain in this scenario given that you've swallowed all the Russian bull about them just going into those two regions and firing a couple of rockets to prevent those evil Ukrainians from committing genocide. 

[whelk]

1 minute ago, hypochondriac said:

No I'm realistic about how serious Putin is  unlike many of the talking heads who've been saying it was all a bluff for weeks or those who think we can stop him with some piddly little sanctions. You're the one with your head seemingly in the clouds, swallowing Russian propaganda about them sending in a peacekeeping force because they've been asked to by Russian separatists in Ukraine. 

I have always know him to be an evil cunt. I am no expert on his plans and every analyst seemed to be saying no one knows his mind. Also lots saying it isn’t a good idea. 

did you hear Chemical Ali’s speech at start of Gulf war? Chilling it was

[hypochondriac]

Just now, Jimmy_D said:

Gambling on NATO breaking a treaty and sacrificing member countries is a very different prospect for Putin than invading a country that’s been denied entry to NATO so far, at least partly because of the risk of conflict with Russia.

I think Putin has gone too quickly in Ukraine as well. He doesn’t even have the fig leaf of being in conflict in the separatist regions before launching a full scale invasion.

The unity shown against that may well be greater than Putin expected, and far more costly than he was counting on, not to mention being far more difficult to justify to the Russian people, even with State Media.

So how do you see this playing out then? Because I don't see it ending at Ukraine and from what I've seen neither do so called experts on the matter. 

[whelk]

Just now, hypochondriac said:

I'm guessing you're neville chamberlain in this scenario given that you've swallowed all the Russian bull about them just going into those two regions and firing a couple of rockets to prevent those evil Ukrainians from committing genocide. 

You seem to know a lot about my opinions? I want the bastard squashed whereas you seem a mix of RT and Trump opinions fawning a bit too much.

[hypochondriac]

2 minutes ago, whelk said:

I have always know him to be an evil cunt. I am no expert on his plans and every analyst seemed to be saying no one knows his mind. Also lots saying it isn’t a good idea. 

did you hear Chemical Ali’s speech at start of Gulf war? Chilling it was

I know its comforting to try to downplay the seriousness or the capability of an enemy but you underestimate your opponent at your peril- particularly one as dangerous and as well placed to inflict pain on the west as Putin. 

[Weston Super Saint]

1 hour ago, RedArmy said:

You could give the average American 200 guesses to point out Estonia on a map of the world and they wouldn’t find it. The idea that Biden would have the backing of the American people to risk their lives to defend a country with a population 6 times smaller than New York City is laughable. 

 

To be fair, if you asked the average American 25 years ago to guess where Afghanistan is, they would need more than 200 guesses (and most probably still would today).

Same with Vietnam.

Doesn't mean they definitely would or wouldn't defend a NATO country.