Israel

[egg]

13 hours ago, Farmer Saint said:

Religion is such a fucking cunt.

It is.

But. The Israel/Palestinian issue is in reality a nationalistic land issue. Sure, it's origins are in religion, but Zionism is at least as big a factor as that, ditto the Palestinians wanting autonomy and a life without oppression. 

To call this a religious issue all but ignores what's happened post WW2, and the respective positions and objectives of both sides. 

[Farmer Saint]

3 hours ago, egg said:

It is.

But. The Israel/Palestinian issue is in reality a nationalistic land issue. Sure, it's origins are in religion, but Zionism is at least as big a factor as that, ditto the Palestinians wanting autonomy and a life without oppression. 

To call this a religious issue all but ignores what's happened post WW2, and the respective positions and objectives of both sides. 

My comment was in response to the mosque fires TBF, but yes, completely agree with the above.

[egg]

3 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

My comment was in response to the mosque fires TBF, but yes, completely agree with the above.

Ah, gotcha 👍

[iansums]

9 hours ago, egg said:

It is.

But. The Israel/Palestinian issue is in reality a nationalistic land issue. Sure, it's origins are in religion, but Zionism is at least as big a factor as that, ditto the Palestinians wanting autonomy and a life without oppression. 

To call this a religious issue all but ignores what's happened post WW2, and the respective positions and objectives of both sides. 

Oooh, we want a life without oppression, let’s vote for Hamas 😳

[egg]

40 minutes ago, iansums said:

Oooh, we want a life without oppression, let’s vote for Hamas 😳

It wasn't Hamas who blew up the Gaza airport or sealed it's borders. Or built divides, checkpoints and turnstiles all over the West Bank. Or supplied/controlled Palestinian water and electricity. 

 

 

[sadoldgit]

43 minutes ago, iansums said:

Oooh, we want a life without oppression, let’s vote for Hamas 😳

As you say you know much about the history of the conflict I guess you know that there haven’t been elections in Gaza since 2006?

[Farmer Saint]

59 minutes ago, iansums said:

Oooh, we want a life without oppression, let’s vote for Hamas 😳

I don't think Hamas have been particularly into fair elections...

Edited October 8 by Farmer Saint

[whelk]

17 minutes ago, egg said:

It wasn't Hamas who blew up the Gaza airport or sealed it's borders. Or built divides, checkpoints and turnstiles all over the West Bank. Or supplied/controlled Palestinian water and electricity. 

 

 

It was Hamas who got their beloved people so fucked

[badgerx16]

1 minute ago, whelk said:

It was Hamas who got their beloved people so fucked

That goes back to 1948.

[egg]

15 minutes ago, whelk said:

It was Hamas who got their beloved people so fucked

The last 2 years is on them. This isn't just a last 2 years issue though. 

[iansums]

3 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

As you say you know much about the history of the conflict I guess you know that there haven’t been elections in Gaza since 2006?

I know that full well old man, and it sort of backs up my point.

[iansums]

3 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

As you say you know much about the history of the conflict I guess you know that there haven’t been elections in Gaza since 2006?

Oooh, can we have another election? No you can’t, now get off this tall building.

[trousers]

 

 

[hypochondriac]

36 minutes ago, trousers said:

 

 

If it holds and they got the hostages out I think a few people are going to have to start thanking trump. Whether his motives are self serving or not it doesn't really matter if the outcome is the same. Let's hope they get the remaining hostages back in one piece.

[trousers]

 

 

[inspectorfrost]

On 07/10/2025 at 08:00, whelk said:

Sympathy is one thing. Hamas have been neutered, as have Hezbollah and to a degree their sponsors, Iran. Hearts and Minds is one thing but brute strength is not to be underestimated in conquering. I expect they did not anticipate Israel’s response to be so severe although should’ve be foreseen. 
I heard that the Hamas attack was not fully coordinated and loads of opportunists took advantage of the fence open and having some bloodlust and grabbing hostages.

I read the other day that the Nova music festival was something the terrorists completely chanced upon, sadly the festival location was changed not long before it started

Ultimately Trump wants his Nobel Peace Prize, the timing is interesting as he seems to have stepped in just as extremists in the Israeli government started calling for the West Bank to be annexed. Suspect Trump threatened to pull the plug in terms of military support.

 

[AlexLaw76]

So, they have have signed, or about to sign, Trumps peace plan after all.

well done to the US President, yes?

[tdmickey3]

40 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

So, they have have signed, or about to sign, Trumps peace plan after all.

well done to the US President, yes?

Of course because it has nothing to do with the negotiating teams does it

[badgerx16]

46 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

So, they have have signed, or about to sign, Trumps peace plan after all.

well done to the US President, yes?

Let's wait and see. This may well bring a halt to the current destruction, but there are an awful lot of pitfalls ahead. How many previous middle-east peace agreements have there been ? Not dissing Trump, but I'm not sure either side, as yet, can be trusted. 

This will take years, even if everybody is being completely open and honest.

[Turkish]

50 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

So, they have have signed, or about to sign, Trumps peace plan after all.

well done to the US President, yes?

Remember how this works, this is in spite of Trump not because of him. It’s what’s become known as Les Reed Syndrome 

in other news lighting candles and rejecting hate day today in the UK. That’ll learn ‘em

[Turkish]

8 hours ago, trousers said:

 

 

Shut up big nose 

[rallyboy]

If this Trump deal is the real thing and he brings peace to that region he'll thoroughly deserve that prize that he keeps nominating himself for, it would be a massive victory for diplomacy.

I'm sure it won't turn out to be just a habitual conman puppet making up shit because his little strings are being pulled by Israel, so I'm looking forward to seeing Donald deliver his promises, both in Gaza and Ukraine.

#nobelprizeawaits

[tdmickey3]

Who thinks it will all start up again after hostages are released? 

[whelk]

34 minutes ago, rallyboy said:

If this Trump deal is the real thing and he brings peace to that region he'll thoroughly deserve that prize that he keeps nominating himself for, it would be a massive victory for diplomacy.

I'm sure it won't turn out to be just a habitual conman puppet making up shit because his little strings are being pulled by Israel, so I'm looking forward to seeing Donald deliver his promises, both in Gaza and Ukraine.

#nobelprizeawaits

FFS Jesus prophesied 2000 years ago about blessed peacemakers. Special sort of president to be singled out by the messsiah

[Farmer Saint]

6 hours ago, Turkish said:

Shut up big nose 

Who you calling big nose?

 

 

 

I read "cheesemakers" too TBF.

[Farmer Saint]

1 hour ago, whelk said:

FFS Jesus prophesied 2000 years ago about blessed peacemakers. Special sort of president to be singled out by the messsiah

And he was Jewish...all comes full circle in the end ⭕ 

[hypochondriac]

6 hours ago, tdmickey3 said:

Of course because it has nothing to do with the negotiating teams does it

So if they had all rejected the peace plan it would have been the failure of the negotiators and not Trump's fault?

[hypochondriac]

Regardless of if the subsequent parts of peace plan fail, Trump and his team will deserve a lot of credit for getting the remaining hostages back. Admittedly his motives are self serving but it doesn't really matter.

[sadoldgit]

Blessed are the peacemakers. I’m not sure how that title relates to the insurrectionist, Donald J. Trump. He is currently deploying armed thugs on the streets of his own cities against the wishes of their Governors. He continues to state that he wants to annex two countries; Canada and Greenland. He has a rap sheet as long as your arm and there is growing evidence that he might be a paedophile.

Anyway…so far apparently so good. We can only hope that this particular deal of his actually works out. Given that neither Netanyahu and his government and the Hamas leadership have shown absolutely zero interest in peace so far, I am not holding my breath.

As for the Nova music festival as per the earlier post, yes, it was a very unhappy coincidence. Hamas came out earlier and said that it wasn’t an original target but that they came across it by accident. It wasn’t supposed to held there but the venue was moved late in the day.

This was part of the original conspiracy, that Netanyahu knew what was going to happen - hence the previous financial funding of Hamas, the ignoring of the intelligence that an attack was imminent and the slow response once the attacks were reported. It could well be bs, but given Netanyahu’s belief that Palestine should not be granted its wish to become a state, the attack on 7th October gave him a golden opportunity to flatten Gaza, crush the Palestinians and open the door to further incursions into the West Bank.

If anyone thinks that Netanyahu, Ben-Gvir and the cabinet are going to agree to Palestinians having their own state, you are going to be very disappointed.

[tdmickey3]

5 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

So if they had all rejected the peace plan it would have been the failure of the negotiators and not Trump's fault?

🙄Don`t be silly, it would down to everyone involved not just Trump, he didn't negotiate singlehanded

[Lord Duckhunter]

7 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

As for the Nova music festival as per the earlier post, yes, it was a very unhappy coincidence. Hamas came out earlier and said that it wasn’t an original target but that they came across it by accident. It wasn’t supposed to held there but the venue was moved late in the day.

Those Jews, bought it on themselves didn’t they. Had they not “moved” the festival those Hamas chaps wouldn’t have raped, murdered and butchered so many innocent people.
 

If you’re going to move music festivals at the last minute, what do you expect is going to happen? 

Edited October 9 by Lord Duckhunter

[tdmickey3]

8 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Regardless of if the subsequent parts of peace plan fail, Trump and his team will deserve a lot of credit for getting the remaining hostages back. Admittedly his motives are self serving but it doesn't really matter.

Its not done yet or have I missed something

[hypochondriac]

3 minutes ago, tdmickey3 said:

Its not done yet or have I missed something

That's why I said "will deserve a lot of credit." It appears that it will happen soon.

[hypochondriac]

7 minutes ago, tdmickey3 said:

🙄Don`t be silly, it would down to everyone involved not just Trump, he didn't negotiate singlehanded

Of course but Trump and his team has clearly played a significant part. If the hostages are released they will deserve a significant amount of the credit.

[trousers]

25 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

Blessed are the peacemakers. I’m not sure how that title relates to the insurrectionist, Donald J. Trump. He is currently deploying armed thugs on the streets of his own cities against the wishes of their Governors. He continues to state that he wants to annex two countries; Canada and Greenland. He has a rap sheet as long as your arm and there is growing evidence that he might be a paedophile.

Anyway…so far apparently so good. We can only hope that this particular deal of his actually works out. Given that neither Netanyahu and his government and the Hamas leadership have shown absolutely zero interest in peace so far, I am not holding my breath.

As for the Nova music festival as per the earlier post, yes, it was a very unhappy coincidence. Hamas came out earlier and said that it wasn’t an original target but that they came across it by accident. It wasn’t supposed to held there but the venue was moved late in the day.

This was part of the original conspiracy, that Netanyahu knew what was going to happen - hence the previous financial funding of Hamas, the ignoring of the intelligence that an attack was imminent and the slow response once the attacks were reported. It could well be bs, but given Netanyahu’s belief that Palestine should not be granted its wish to become a state, the attack on 7th October gave him a golden opportunity to flatten Gaza, crush the Palestinians and open the door to further incursions into the West Bank.

If anyone thinks that Netanyahu, Ben-Gvir and the cabinet are going to agree to Palestinians having their own state, you are going to be very disappointed.

Mods: just checking... Strictly speaking, is this level of positivity and optimism allowed on the Saintsweb Forum...?

[trousers]

13 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Of course but Trump and his team has clearly played a significant part. If the hostages are released they will deserve a significant amount of the credit.

Does credit through gritted teeth count...?

[tdmickey3]

17 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Of course but Trump and his team has clearly played a significant part. If the hostages are released they will deserve a significant amount of the credit.

Yes that`s why I said the "negotiating teams"

[hypochondriac]

18 minutes ago, trousers said:

Does credit through gritted teeth count...?

Sure. At least it's honest.

[egg]

2 hours ago, tdmickey3 said:

Yes that`s why I said the "negotiating teams"

The credit is largely due to the negotiators and those compromising on the Israeli and Palestinian side. I'll reserve any significant credit for Trump until it's clear what he's actually said or done to bring people into line, although he's clearly put a foot up arses. 

[AlexLaw76]

22 minutes ago, egg said:

The credit is largely due to the negotiators and those compromising on the Israeli and Palestinian side. I'll reserve any significant credit for Trump until it's clear what he's actually said or done to bring people into line, although he's clearly put a foot up arses. 

The US are the only external player that matters to be honest, and this breakthrough, that the great and good said would not be possible, would not happen without the US President’s considerable influence.

one thing is for sure, the EU/UK really do not matter when it counts.
 

long way to go yet!

Edited October 9 by AlexLaw76

[egg]

3 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

The US are the only external player that matters to be honest, and this breakthrough, that the great and good said would not be possible, would not happen without the US President’s considerable influence.

one thing is for sure, the EU/UK really do not matter when it counts.
 

long way to go yet!

The US are the only game in town on international "diplomacy", but, does getting things done via threats and intimidation merit credit? 

That said, I'd be delighted if we can achieve a ceasefire and the hostages & captives released, although we ain't there yet. 

[benjii]

Egypt has been the main regional key to this. They needed to get on board with the UAE / Saudi reconstruction plans.

The problem with Trump, is that everyone knows he lies, all the time, about everything. So maybe he's done something great here, or maybe it's not something great, or maybe it's something great but his involvmeent is limited. Time will tell.

[hypochondriac]

17 minutes ago, egg said:

The US are the only game in town on international "diplomacy", but, does getting things done via threats and intimidation merit credit? 

That said, I'd be delighted if we can achieve a ceasefire and the hostages & captives released, although we ain't there yet. 

Interested to know why you don't think it would. It's a shame they have to release some terrorists on the other side but that's the negotiation I suppose.

[hypochondriac]

Just now, benjii said:

Egypt has been the main regional key to this. They needed to get on board with the UAE / Saudi reconstruction plans.

The problem with Trump, is that everyone knows he lies, all the time, about everything. So maybe he's done something great here, or maybe it's not something great, or maybe it's something great but his involvmeent is limited. Time will tell.

If the hostages are all freed then that's indisputably something great even if what follows afterwards isn't.

[benjii]

3 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

If the hostages are all freed then that's indisputably something great even if what follows afterwards isn't.

Yes, it will be good for all the Palestinians detained without trial to be released, but I fear Israel will keep rounding them up.

Edited October 9 by benjii

[hypochondriac]

4 minutes ago, benjii said:

Yes, it will be good for all the Palestinians detained without trial to be released, but I fear Israel will keep rounding them up.

Unfortunately quite a few mass murderering Hamas members are getting released too. Let's hope these extremists don't get the chance to blow everything up:

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

1 hour ago, benjii said:

Egypt has been the main regional key to this. They needed to get on board with the UAE / Saudi reconstruction plans.

The problem with Trump, is that everyone knows he lies, all the time, about everything. So maybe he's done something great here, or maybe it's not something great, or maybe it's something great but his involvmeent is limited. Time will tell.

I would think you will find he has been instrumental in achieving the ceasefire so maybe you should just raise a glass and say well done however much it hurts. As it happens you can probably still call him a narcissist. 

[The Kraken]

Who cares if he gets a gold medal around his neck if it stops the killings. Couldn’t give a fuck. Give him three medals if it makes it happen quicker.

[egg]

2 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

If the hostages are all freed then that's indisputably something great even if what follows afterwards isn't.

Your focus is exclusively on the Israelis. Yes, they (and the others) should never have been taken, but, there's goodness knows how many Palestinians, kids included, held without charge. All of those people should be released simultaneously. 

[benjii]

8 hours ago, Sergei Gotsmanov said:

I would think you will find he has been instrumental in achieving the ceasefire so maybe you should just raise a glass and say well done however much it hurts. As it happens you can probably still call him a narcissist. 

It doesn't hurt at all. Like I said, we have to see what actually happens before we overdo it, but well done to him if he's actually achieved something positive for once in his life.