Saints 4 actual goals vs 0 Blackburn - Match Thread

[Holmes_and_Watson]

10 hours ago, miserableoldgit said:

Watching this, it appears that a lot of non-Saints fans don't like RM very much. 

 

The hair envy for RM is a sad thing to see. They've probably got Stu threads for the same reason. 🙂

[JRM]

6 hours ago, The Cat said:

Also our biggest home win since we beat Arsenal 4-0 on Boxing Day in 2015 I think.

Was trying to work that out, blimey seems a very long time ago since that game, was reminiscing about the Sunderland 8-0 and Villa 6-1 games from 14/15 , the good old days! 

[gio1saints]

12 hours ago, Tommy Mulgrew said:

You sound like Russ’s big brother; or his mum.

 

9 hours ago, tdmickey3 said:

Groupie in a lime green cagool 

Bizarre comments.😳
 

@Tommy MulgrewIf you go to home matches you would know Martin always salutes Northam at end when we win, so yes, obviously I’m his big brother AND his mum for pointing that out. Well spotted. @tdmickey3 your attempt at name calling humour is weak to put it mildly. Stick to your day job at Disneyland. 😇

Edited 18 December, 2023 by gio1saints

[Tommy Mulgrew]

My mistake: you’re obviously his big sister.

 

[gio1saints]

3 hours ago, Tommy Mulgrew said:

My mistake: you’re obviously his big sister.

 

Wow I’m splitting my sides with laughter. That’s a cracker. You have a terrific sense of humour.

[Saint86]

17 hours ago, Badger said:

RM does seem to wind up opposition fans, possibly because they like us - wonder-  how he’s managed to progress without any real achievement  at previous clubs. Could understand the opposition view of Jones who was a prickly individual on the touchline. Can’t  say I’ve noticed any antics from RM, but if he comes across as a Billy Big-Bollocks you can see the resentment. 

Its probably because we're an awful team to play against, and our style of football is very arrogant. Let's not kid ourselves, our style of football is only good to watch if the opposition are stupid enough to give us goals or we really turn it on - last time out, Blackburn were absolutely terrible for example. If the oppo are disciplined (ala Coventry / Watford), the game turns into an absolute snore fest where we pass the ball along between the cdm and the defence for most of our "possession"... And we maybe sneak a win late on because we've got prem level players (on the bench as well) who are fitter and better (than the championship plodders we're playing), and because we'll have literally passed the opposition to death by the end of the game 😂.

I mean, our own fans get irate at us, I can't imagine how bad it is as an opposition fan.... 🤮 They come to watch a football game, and then their side barely touch the ball in our defensive 3rd and they have to watch us play crab football for 50% of the match before we generally score the odd goal 😂🤣. I used to hate watching Barcelona for exactly the same reasons (and they had some sensation players)... They'd never give the opposition the ball, and they'd just pass pass pass their way around the pitch whilst you waited for the inevitable goal - hardly seemed fair - it's not really a contest when your side can't get the ball 😅. 

Edited 18 December, 2023 by Saint86

[sfc4prem]

23 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

Its probably because we're an awful team to play against, and our style of football is very arrogant. Let's not kid ourselves, our style of football is only good to watch if the opposition are stupid enough to give us goals or we really turn it on - last time out, Blackburn were absolutely terrible for example. If the oppo are disciplined (ala Coventry / Watford), the game turns into an absolute snore fest where we pass the ball along between the cdm and the defence for most of our "possession"... And we maybe sneak a win late on because we've got prem level players (on the bench as well) who are fitter and better (than the championship plodders we're playing), and because we'll have literally passed the opposition to death by the end of the game 😂.

I mean, our own fans get irate at us, I can't imagine how bad it is as an opposition fan.... 🤮 They come to watch a football game, and then their side barely touch the ball in our defensive 3rd and they have to watch us play crab football for 50% of the match before we generally score the odd goal 😂🤣. I used to hate watching Barcelona for exactly the same reasons (and they had some sensation players)... They'd never give the opposition the ball, and they'd just pass pass pass their way around the pitch whilst you waited for the inevitable goal - hardly seemed fair - it's not really a contest when your side can't get the ball 😅. 

You need to appreciate the finer aspects of the beautiful game. Come on - you used to hate watching Barcelona? Are you talking about their prime Xavi, Ineista and Messi era? 

Thank you for giving me a heads up to ignore your football style related posts going forward 🫣

[West end Saints]

Jack Stephens and Ryan Fraser, how both came on relatively late, had more passes, and also more passes in opposition half, than any Blackburn player. 

[The Cat]

1 hour ago, Saint86 said:

Its probably because we're an awful team to play against, and our style of football is very arrogant. Let's not kid ourselves, our style of football is only good to watch if the opposition are stupid enough to give us goals or we really turn it on - last time out, Blackburn were absolutely terrible for example. If the oppo are disciplined (ala Coventry / Watford), the game turns into an absolute snore fest where we pass the ball along between the cdm and the defence for most of our "possession"... And we maybe sneak a win late on because we've got prem level players (on the bench as well) who are fitter and better (than the championship plodders we're playing), and because we'll have literally passed the opposition to death by the end of the game 😂.

I mean, our own fans get irate at us, I can't imagine how bad it is as an opposition fan.... 🤮 They come to watch a football game, and then their side barely touch the ball in our defensive 3rd and they have to watch us play crab football for 50% of the match before we generally score the odd goal 😂🤣. I used to hate watching Barcelona for exactly the same reasons (and they had some sensation players)... They'd never give the opposition the ball, and they'd just pass pass pass their way around the pitch whilst you waited for the inevitable goal - hardly seemed fair - it's not really a contest when your side can't get the ball 😅. 

Not sure how a style can be classed as arrogant. It's it like we're flicking the ball over our heads or continually backheeling it. What is arrogant is writing off whole swathes of players in the league as "plodders".

If fans of other clubs are annoyed it should be at their team for not winning the ball back, you know they are allowed to press us higher up the pitch? They could even get the ball and pass it to each other if they want.

Each to their own but Barcelona were the best team I've ever seen and I loved watching them play. Same with Man City when they are on top form.

[Saint86]

1 hour ago, sfc4prem said:

You need to appreciate the finer aspects of the beautiful game. Come on - you used to hate watching Barcelona? Are you talking about their prime Xavi, Ineista and Messi era? 

Thank you for giving me a heads up to ignore your football style related posts going forward 🫣

In the style front - I just didn't enjoy watching them - they were fantastic footballers obviously, but they also "cheated" a lot, and they were also incredibly boring to watch most of the time imo.... When paired with the fact that they asked for every foul going / dived / play acted, and were then really niggly off the ball themselves etc, I just found them to be very unsporting and routinely wanted them to lose. I much preffered the Spain (who I would personally say are the best side of recent years / that I've enjoyed the most) as they were more attacking and purposeful in their play, and they didn't cheat / lean on the dark arts anywhere near as much - funny what happens when you lose a few argies. More than one way to play / enjoy football ofc. Man City of recent years have also been a very good side to watch. 

Also, sf4cprem is going to ignore my views on football style appreciation... This cuts me deep brother 😅😂

 

Anyway, if you can't see why opposition fans hate playing us because we basically don't give them the ball and then spend most of the 90mins knocking it around between the CMs and the defence, I can't really help you. It's boring footy to be on the recieving end of imo... maybe I'm in the minority and fans love watching the opposition walking the ball around in front of 11 defensively set up players 😂

Edited 18 December, 2023 by Saint86

[gio1saints]

4 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

 

Anyway, if you can't see why opposition fans hate playing us because we basically don't give them the ball and then spend most of the 90mins knocking it around between the CMs and the defence, I can't really help you. It's boring footy to be on the recieving end of imo... But what do I know, I found barca boring, maybe I'm in the minority and fans love watching the opposition walking the ball around I'm front of 11 defensive players 😂

Exactly.
Effective teams can be boring to watch. Italy won two World Cups with super pragmatic teams beating “ better” teams en route. If a style is effective here in the Championship - which it clearly is - carry on.
 

After years of being neither exciting and rather easy to beat I’ll take a season of boringly predictable pragmatic grind em down and stay unbeaten football. 

We are the Mark Selby of this League. Next season, if we go up, we assess what style will give us most chance of staying up - and play that way. Long ball possession hybrid who cares as long as it’s effective. Players have learned ( almost) this current difficult style, it’s taken a great deal of intelligence, courage and technical proficiency - they can learn another variation, if required. 

[sfc4prem]

39 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

In the style front - I just didn't enjoy watching them - they were fantastic footballers obviously, but they also "cheated" a lot, and they were also incredibly boring to watch most of the time imo.... When paired with the fact that they asked for every foul going / dived / play acted, and were then really niggly off the ball themselves etc, I just found them to be very unsporting and routinely wanted them to lose. I much preffered the Spain (who I would personally say are the best side of recent years / that I've enjoyed the most) as they were more attacking and purposeful in their play, and they didn't cheat / lean on the dark arts anywhere near as much - funny what happens when you lose a few argies. More than one way to play / enjoy football ofc. Man City of recent years have also been a very good side to watch. 

Also, sf4cprem is going to ignore my views on football style appreciation... This cuts me deep brother 😅😂

 

Anyway, if you can't see why opposition fans hate playing us because we basically don't give them the ball and then spend most of the 90mins knocking it around between the CMs and the defence, I can't really help you. It's boring footy to be on the recieving end of imo... maybe I'm in the minority and fans love watching the opposition walking the ball around in front of 11 defensively set up players 😂

I'd hate watching my team play us, yeah, but not because of style. Simply because it's a tough test. Why does that even come onto your radar? Our style of play isn't arrogant. If a team wants to high and team press us up the pitch, crack on. Leicester did it and rinsed us, so did Sunderland.

I don't get why it's an issue for you as to what other clubs think!? 

On your view that you think our 'style' of football is arrogant and boring, I think we'll have to agree to disagree. 

You see passing for passing's sake. You see sideways-passing 'crab' football.

I see a team trying to tease opposing players out of position to create pockets of space to move and pass into.

I see a team that is facing 11 players sitting deep in a tightly packed defensive unit, trying their best to unpick their formation and find a 'way through'.

[Kermitzasaint]

On 17/12/2023 at 02:32, gio1saints said:

 

It was boringly predictable football  especially first 40 minutes - BUT we seem to DOMINATE with it. If you don’t like the style don't watch basically. I am getting quite used to Saints being able to do whatever they like wherever on the pitch after years of the opposite. The Northam think so to “ we’re taking the piss” rang out a few times as we watched Blackburn players doing endless doggies chasing our play all over the match. 

Relevant for me was the results Coventry and Watford had. Put our away draws in which we dominated both in- form teams all over the pitch but failed to win into a little better context.  
 

Stu had a superior match, Sam and Bree justified return ms to starting, Mara finally got his goal and Charlie earned a pardon for that penalty fuck up with his goal also. Jack was like a strong new CB who did not miss a beat. Could not have worked out better frankly for getting the squad players interested and involved again! And credit to RM for making those calls. He’ even got a nice song today ( wham last Christmas….🎹 This year,  to save us from tears we got our Russell Martin” which showed some good Northam initiative! 

Your obsession with RM is beyond tedious now. 

[LuckyNumber7]

1 hour ago, Saint86 said:

 

Anyway, if you can't see why opposition fans hate playing us because we basically don't give them the ball and then spend most of the 90mins knocking it around between the CMs and the defence, I can't really help you.

Yeah, let's just be good sports and give the opposition more of the ball, maybe give them a couple more goals too. I'm sure they'll enjoy playing against us more then. Honestly... 

[Dman]

Other than us under Jones and Selles - Blackburn easily the worst side to come to play at St Marys for a long time? 

We played very well, but jesus, they made it easy for us. No intent to try and win and just let us play our game. Incredible how they're so far up the table. 

[Hamilton Saint]

On 18/12/2023 at 05:33, Kermitzasaint said:

Your obsession with RM is beyond tedious now. 

Says you. But I find gio1saints's view a refreshing alternative to the ultra-negative and, often, insulting opinions of RM. A run of fourteen games unbeaten is still not enough for some of the usual suspects on here--many of whom are barely able to manage any respect for what RM has achieved since taking over.

Criticism is best from those who are even-handed and open-minded. And from supporters who want the manager to succeed, rather than yearn to see him fail.

 

[Dark Munster]

38 minutes ago, Hamilton Saint said:

Says you. But I find gio1saints's view a refreshing alternative to the ultra-negative and, often, insulting opinions of RM. A run of fourteen games unbeaten is still not enough for some of the usual suspects on here--many of whom are barely able to manage any respect for what RM has achieved since taking over.

Criticism is best from those who are even-handed and open-minded. And from supporters who want the manager to succeed, rather than yearn to see him fail.

 

Rubbish. We all want him, and our club, to succeed. 80% of the matches have been propaganda, possession-obsession "Russball", which he carried over from Swansea. Coventry last week just being the most recent example.

If he abandons that and has the team playing like they did in a handful of matches (Leeds first half, Cardiff, Blackburn second half) then the criticism will end.

[InTheChannel]

Some of you may watch the Carabao Cup action tonight! A competition Southampton spectacularly crashed out of. Has this actually been beneficial to our season?

https://inthechannel.blogspot.com/2023/12/has-lack-of-carabao-cup-action-been.html?m=0
 

twitter: @inthechannel76

[gio1saints]

12 minutes ago, Dark Munster said:

Rubbish. We all want him, and our club, to succeed. 80% of the matches have been propaganda, possession-obsession "Russball", which he carried over from Swansea. Coventry last week just being the most recent example.

If he abandons that and has the team playing like they did in a handful of matches (Leeds first half, Cardiff, Blackburn second half) then the criticism will end.

Wow. 14 games unbeaten not applauded but rather begrudged and termed  “Propaganda football”.  Years of being rubbish and yet when we go 14 unbeaten - joyless criticism damned by faint praise. 

That’s a hell of a luxury. Saints are delivering a once in decades run of unbeaten results. Our Average points per game on this run is ridiculous. Instead of insisting on changes we should be insisting on more of the same! 

[Dark Munster]

5 hours ago, gio1saints said:

Wow. 14 games unbeaten not applauded but rather begrudged and termed  “Propaganda football”.  Years of being rubbish and yet when we go 14 unbeaten - joyless criticism damned by faint praise. 

That’s a hell of a luxury. Saints are delivering a once in decades run of unbeaten results. Our Average points per game on this run is ridiculous. Instead of insisting on changes we should be insisting on more of the same! 

In case you haven't noticed, we're playing in the Championship not the PL, and most teams are dross. In terms of finances, we're the Man City of this league, with players that individually cost more than the whole squad of most other teams. We're 10 points behind one of those teams.

[washsaint]

1 hour ago, Dark Munster said:

In case you haven't noticed, we're playing in the Championship not the PL, and most teams are dross. In terms of finances, we're the Man City of this league, with players that individually cost more than the whole squad of most other teams. We're 10 points behind one of those teams.

Wow, just wow.

So you'd rather be in the Prem stinking up the joint and hoping to scrape some narrow victories?

I cannot believe the number of people who seem to want Saints to fail.

If you cant enjoy this run I don't see how you'll ever be happy.

[david in sweden]

5 hours ago, washsaint said:

Wow, just wow.

So you'd rather be in the Prem stinking up the joint and hoping to scrape some narrow victories?

I cannot believe the number of people who seem to want Saints to fail.

If you cant enjoy this run I don't see how you'll ever be happy.

 

I agree wash saint,  It's really sad to read people complaining about a 14 match unbeaten run, in games where we've had max. possession %

(whilst denying it to opponents) but who can still criticise the manager's haircut, or be upset because he doesn't start with their favourite player. 

In any league there are two ways to go, and we are moving in the right direction. The fact that we are 10 points adrift now proves nothing as 

the only positions that really matter are those after the 46th match.  

The Prem. is another league, but the "gap" is obvious, (and despite our successes I ask myself how many of our present squad are Prem. material.)

Last season's promoted sides have already felt the cold and are already locked into the drop zone with little hope of any sort of short term recovery.

Positions in that table are down to goal difference, rather than points superiority. Many of the "bottom-end " teams rarely move above 10th place

and only a few of those above that will see themselves in a top 6 " Euro. spot " for more than a few weeks at a time (after a good run), before

reverting to mediocrity and will eventually be thankful for survival come the end of the season.

 

Saints' next 14 fixtures will paint a fairly realistic picture of how we have developed, but every game " is about winning " and whether we get there 

by comfortably winning 4-0 , or getting a 96th minute winner matters little, but I would never criticise any team that continues to pick up points .

Those people who want to see a team in top spot may remain disappointed for the remainder of the season, but can always drive down the M27

and watch a team who are league leaders... that's if they don't mind dropping a division, and a level in quality in order to do it.

 

[trousers]

Being happy about an unbeaten run and having reservations about the style of play aren't two mutually exclusive viewpoints, as some seem to be inferring... 

Edited 20 December, 2023 by trousers

[gio1saints]

9 minutes ago, trousers said:

Being happy about an unbeaten run and having reservations about the style of play aren't two mutually exclusive viewpoints, as some seem to be inferring... 

Absolutely right. It’s vital and healthy to have reservations and debate criticism even when we seem to be doing well, especially when we seem to be doing well. 

Having spent five decades + as a Saints supporter my feelings on match day are 100% apprehensive and often fairly pessimistic. But I cannot remember 14 unbeaten in a row (though I know it was probably last time we were in this league).
And @Dark Munster you’ve got an extremely valid point - but, honestly, I don’t care which league it’s done in. That’s not the point, for me anyway. Saints, the team Ive supported all my life, just don’t do this. Ever (almost).
I may never see it again (especially if we go up) so I’m trying my best to enjoy it. It’s kind of a little promise I gave to all my friends and family after I survived a Big C attack. Enjoy today more, worry less about tomorrow. And Saints have given me 14 good reasons to do so- long may that run continue! 

[Greedyfly]

On 18/12/2023 at 08:13, sfc4prem said:

You need to appreciate the finer aspects of the beautiful game. Come on - you used to hate watching Barcelona? Are you talking about their prime Xavi, Ineista and Messi era? 

Thank you for giving me a heads up to ignore your football style related posts going forward 🫣

We didn't just compare our style of football with that of classic Barca teams, did we?  It's not the same.  There's passing for passing sake, and there's what that team did.  When we play forward thinking progressive football like vs Leeds (one half) and Cardiff, we play an ultimately boiled down version of that Barca team (to be expected we don't have the same level of personnel) but when we don't it's plodding, pass pass pass for no other reason than to win % stats.

 

And it is boring and not winning us as many games as we'd like/need.

[Alanh]

11 hours ago, Dark Munster said:

In case you haven't noticed, we're playing in the Championship not the PL, and most teams are dross. In terms of finances, we're the Man City of this league, with players that individually cost more than the whole squad of most other teams. We're 10 points behind one of those teams.

What a sense of entitlement!  You make it sound like you expect 11 brave Saints lads to turn up and the opposition will just roll over.  It's still a football match, there are still determined and sometimes well organised opponents to overcome.

[Dark Munster]

2 hours ago, Alanh said:

What a sense of entitlement!  You make it sound like you expect 11 brave Saints lads to turn up and the opposition will just roll over.  It's still a football match, there are still determined and sometimes well organised opponents to overcome.

Nice straw man argument there. I’m not expecting us to win every match. 
It’s quite simple, we want to play to our strengths, like we do occasionally like against Leeds in the first half and Blackburn second half last Saturday. The previous match against Coventry is the norm, possession for possession’s sake without creating more chances than the weaker opposition.

[Dark Munster]

13 hours ago, washsaint said:

Wow, just wow.

So you'd rather be in the Prem stinking up the joint and hoping to scrape some narrow victories?

I cannot believe the number of people who seem to want Saints to fail.

If you cant enjoy this run I don't see how you'll ever be happy.

I wouldn’t want either, but I’d rather us be stinking up the PL than stinking up the Championship, which is what will happen in a few years if we don’t go up.

As for the unbeaten run, I like the vastly improved defense part of it, with Bednarek, THB, KWP, Bree and Downes excellent, and Baz greatly improved. But at the end of the day it’s just a statistic. 13 wins with a loss in the middle for example is better for points on the board (not that I’d expect that return).

And please spare us the tired old meme “I cannot believe the number of people who seem to want Saints to fail”. We all want RM and the team to succeed. 

[gio1saints]

PB football IS our #1 strength and individual flair ie what you might call “ playing to your strengths” is a subset of that. They are not either or. 
 

Criticism of how long the style can take to turn into anything remotely dangerous looking is entirely valid.

But fact is, Saints play this PB style against every team. Some teams are better against it, especially those with a very low line defence or who’ve Sussed out how to press us better. Some ( too many!) games our finishing is lousy. Some games we don’t do PB as well as we can. Or a mixture. But it’s not an either or conscious choice. We are not either playing to our strengths OR reverting to PB football. 
 

For me we seem to be getting better at it. Faster at it. So much so that we don’t even recognise it as PB football. But like all great magic tricks that’s an illusion and an example of misdirection. It is the Saints team collective united in this PB style that is the true playing to our strengths. 

[Tommy Mulgrew]

Maybe DM did not express himself as well as he might have done.  Perhaps he meant that occasionally we progress up the field rapidly, not leaving the oppo much time to re-set, and create plenty of chances to score and, more often, we seem to take too many sideways or backwards passes, thus allowing the oppo to get back into a formation that is difficult for our players to penetrate so we recycle the ball back to the CMs, CBS or GK and start the slow, plodding process all over again.  That is boring, predictable stuff and we often seem to concede a goal while doing it and struggle to score ourselves.  We all, surely, want to see much more of the former way of playing possession football, with slick, incisive passing and movement towards the oppo’s goal.

The variation in our play does not, to me at least, depend on how the oppo team sets out to play against us.  I do not know whether it comes from RM or from our players being good at playing occasionally and bad frequently or some other reason.  I’d like to think that RM does not want us to play crab-ball and draw in preference to play incisively and win more often.  Our players certainly want to win, score goals and not concede.

The unbeaten run is great but how much better it would be if we could have converted some of the draws to wins?  Given our advantages in £s and players over most of our Championship opponents, that is surely what we should be trying to do.