Council Funding

[whelk]

Many councils find themselves on the brink of financial disaster. Some are Tory shire councils so cannot be dismissed as looney left pissing away money on diversity schemes. 
Feels like hidden austerity as central Government can point that it is a locally managed issue not of their making. It very much isnt and many are cutting all but the essential services they legally have to provide. Such a shame as parks, cultural projects , festivals etc enrich the lives of so many. 
There is enough money to avoid our communities becoming wastelands. 
Graph below not up to date but shows the reduction that gets so less attention than NHS, policing etc. Also heard that Southampton will reject any special needs statement request at first go as to help with funding and and in hope parents won’t appeal. Scandalous for 6th richest economy etc

[badgerx16]

Local Government financing is a joke, as the Government will always spin the line that 'efficiency' will drive service improvement whilst funding is slashed. As part of the 'efficiency savings' that saw one local authority's funding cut by 45% over this period, I can honestly say that such as assertion is bullshit. You cannot take away with one hand and at the same time expect more and more services to come under LA control. Part of the problem historically has been Business Rates, where the locally collected monies are pooled by Westminster then apportioned back out by way of a formula that does not recognise local social issues. As an example, Blackpool was a 'net contributor' to the national BR pool, meaning it got back less than it collected, yet Croyden was a 'net beneficiary', getting apportioned more than it collected.

There are also many other smaller issues that impact LA finances; Coucils pay out Housing Benefits on behalf of the DSS, but do not get recompensed for the full amount they pay out, a percentage is retained by the DSS that is supposed  to account for fraud, and the LA is meant to recover these monies through pursuing fraudulent claims. Generally, the amount the central Department retains is more than the amount of fraud committed. However, overall it is simply that central Government, especially the Tories since Osborne was Chancellor, see Local Government as the main focus for austerity, as it is a far less emotive issue than trying to restrict NHS funding. They cut the central funding and tell the Councils they can raise Council Tax to compensate, then restrict the percentage by which C-Tax can be raised such that there is a shortfall in the Councils' funding.

Edited February 28 by badgerx16

[Weston Super Saint]

Somerset council have announced they will be slashing 1000 jobs.

I struggle to imagine how they can do that and still continue to operate - even inefficiently. The only conclusion I can draw is that they had way too many people doing way too little previously.

[whelk]

10 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Somerset council have announced they will be slashing 1000 jobs.

I struggle to imagine how they can do that and still continue to operate - even inefficiently. The only conclusion I can draw is that they had way too many people doing way too little previously.

I hope you don’t have to do much critical thinking in your job?

[badgerx16]

12 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Somerset council have announced they will be slashing 1000 jobs.

I struggle to imagine how they can do that and still continue to operate - even inefficiently. The only conclusion I can draw is that they had way too many people doing way too little previously.

Have a look and find out how many the 4 districts that combined to form the Council had previously cut in the last 10 years. Before it was abolished to form the Unitaries, Somerset CC had already cut £130M in the previous 8 years.

[Weston Super Saint]

1 hour ago, whelk said:

I hope you don’t have to do much critical thinking in your job?

You'd be surprised.

Unfortunately I've never worked anywhere where losing 1000 staff wouldn't lead to total collapse of every function, so it's unimaginable for me.

[whelk]

46 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

You'd be surprised.

Unfortunately I've never worked anywhere where losing 1000 staff wouldn't lead to total collapse of every function, so it's unimaginable for me.

You do realise if they close a library then no staff stay on? I can give other examples if it helps?

[badgerx16]

2 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

You'd be surprised.

Unfortunately I've never worked anywhere where losing 1000 staff wouldn't lead to total collapse of every function, so it's unimaginable for me.

Generally what is happening is that Councils are shredding every non-statutory Department. That might be Libraries and other cultural services such as Art Galleries or support for theatres - Birmingham is closing down ALL cultural services. Some Councils have shut down CCTV monitoring in city centres, others reduce the number of staff working in services such as Planning to the minimum required to process applications to the absolute Legal minimum service level. Ancilliary support services for schools, such as peripatetic music teachers might be paid off, highways maintenance is pared to the minimum possible, ( pothole repairs etc ), and basically anything that is not specifically tied down by Statute is in the line of fire. Basically this boils down, for Unitary Councils like Somerset, to Education and Social Services getting ring fenced, everything else can go.

 In my particular case, a section of 45 staff was cut down to less than 30, with most of my work actually ending up being added to an existing outsourcing IT contract - without saving anything as the outsourcing costs increased.

Edited February 28 by badgerx16

[Gloucester Saint]

An excellent OP and subsequent comments. I don’t work in local government but have held high level non-party political civic positions where I’ve seen the fall-out of the last 13 years and a bit beyond where Labour was starting to re-distribute funds from some LAs SE England in the late 2000s. 

Most LAs now are reduced to education, social services and if they’ve brought them back in-house, refuse. There’s some small technical expertise left on planning and legal, but it’s a pale shadow of what it was, which is dreadful for local democracy as unwanted schemes get pushed through. So yes, WSS, LAs are totally hollowed out. Pre-Brexit, at least the NHS, FE, HE could all help blunt some of the impact but they are now screwed by people shortages created by a National Front/BNP-type obsession on all net migration (not just asylum seekers) and funding issues of their own operating in a higher inflation environment. That’s why millions can’t afford the dentist anymore.

I’ve spent out more than any tax cuts on new suspension bushes wearing out early on our developing country roads. 

Not as if national debt as a proportion of GDP has dropped either - 74% in 2010, which apparently was a national disgrace, now 96.5% as of January 2024 and has been over 100%. And with public services hollowed out and/or disappearing across the board. 

The Tories and their shady donors have asset stripped the UK. Not sure how Starmer and Reeves are going to recover the damage to any great extent.

Edited February 28 by Gloucester Saint

[AlexLaw76]

41 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

An excellent OP and subsequent comments. I don’t work in local government but have held high level non-party political civic positions where I’ve seen the fall-out of the last 13 years and a bit beyond where Labour was starting to re-distribute funds from some LAs SE England in the late 2000s. 

Most LAs now are reduced to education, social services and if they’ve brought them back in-house, refuse. There’s some small technical expertise left on planning and legal, but it’s a pale shadow of what it was, which is dreadful for local democracy as unwanted schemes get pushed through. So yes, WSS, LAs are totally hollowed out. Pre-Brexit, at least the NHS, FE, HE could all help blunt some of the impact but they are now screwed by people shortages created by a National Front/BNP-type obsession on all net migration (not just asylum seekers) and funding issues of their own operating in a higher inflation environment. That’s why millions can’t afford the dentist anymore.

I’ve spent out more than any tax cuts on new suspension bushes wearing out early on our developing country roads. 

Not as if national debt as a proportion of GDP has dropped either - 74% in 2010, which apparently was a national disgrace, now 96.5% as of January 2024 and has been over 100%. And with public services hollowed out and/or disappearing across the board. 

The Tories and their shady donors have asset stripped the UK. Not sure how Starmer and Reeves are going to recover the damage to any great extent.

Something has to pay for Covid, energy crisis, war in Ukraine, War in Gaza, Green initiatives, accommodating 10s, even 100s of thousands of semi-literate men, public sector pensions, the endless pit that is the NHS, working from home, benefits.....

This has been brewing for a long time...and will only get worse unless there is significant reform across multiple public sectors....

[Gloucester Saint]

47 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Something has to pay for Covid, energy crisis, war in Ukraine, War in Gaza, Green initiatives, accommodating 10s, even 100s of thousands of semi-literate men, public sector pensions, the endless pit that is the NHS, working from home, benefits.....

This has been brewing for a long time...and will only get worse unless there is significant reform across multiple public sectors....

Public debt as a proportion of GDP was 89.2% in 2015 straight after austerity https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/governmentpublicsectorandtaxes/publicspending/bulletins/ukgovernmentdebtanddeficitforeurostatmaast/octtodec2015

As for the energy crisis, we are paying for it - straight in to the public pension funds of mainland European neighbours who own our energy firms.

Public sector pensions - as I understand it most reduced to average earnings at best and few final salary schemes remaining at all, if any.

WFH - what does that cost anybody apart from maybe the railways? And they were already the most expensive in Europe pre-Covid for the worst reliability. Civil service has actually recouped selling buildings and land off. It’s only the Mail that grizzles about WFH because without the advert revenue in the free papers through the major London terminals they nearly went pop.

As for benefits - we had 3m unemployed in the 1980s - ‘unemployment is a price worth paying’. Can’t remember whether Howe or Lawson said it. 

As for COVID, I refer you to the £37bn VIP lane, most were Tory donors and a lot of the PPE didn’t work. 

In 2010, we had more comprehensive public services, not perfect by any means but different league to now, and much lower public debt to GDP.

Its the modern day Tories and Brexit we can’t afford.

Edited February 28 by Gloucester Saint

[AlexLaw76]

14 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

Public debt as a proportion of GDP was 89.2% in 2015 straight after austerity https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/governmentpublicsectorandtaxes/publicspending/bulletins/ukgovernmentdebtanddeficitforeurostatmaast/octtodec2015

As for the energy crisis, we are paying for it - straight in to the public pension funds of mainland European neighbours who own our energy firms.

Public sector pensions - as I understand it most reduced to average earnings at best and few final salary schemes remaining at all, if any.

WFH - what does that cost anybody apart from maybe the railways? And they were already the most expensive in Europe pre-Covid for the worst reliability. Civil service has actually recouped selling buildings and land off. It’s only the Mail that grizzles about WFH because without the advert revenue in the free papers through the major London terminals they nearly went pop.

As for benefits - we had 3m unemployed in the 1980s - ‘unemployment is a price worth paying’. Can’t remember whether Howe or Lawson said it. 

As for COVID, I refer you to the £37bn VIP lane, most were Tory donors and a lot of the PPE didn’t work. 

In 2010, we had more comprehensive public services, not perfect by any means but different league to now, and much lower public debt to GDP.

Its the modern day Tories and Brexit we can’t afford.

Refer again to everything I have said, none of which you can refute or deny.

mot much will change under a different party, as the nation is hooked on free stuff, the NHS in its current form, and the bizarre desire to house the population of Birmingham every year of mostly illiterate men.

 

[badgerx16]

1 hour ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Something has to pay for Covid, energy crisis, war in Ukraine, War in Gaza, Green initiatives, accommodating 10s, even 100s of thousands of semi-literate men, public sector pensions, the endless pit that is the NHS, working from home, benefits.....

 

Perhaps an increase in Government income might help - maybe try raising taxes.

[whelk]

16 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Perhaps an increase in Government income might help - maybe try raising taxes.

The £600bn the Government pumped into the economy during Covid is stil! there. They need to work out how to effectively tax wealth not income - there is a hell of a lot of it about and so many won’t miss it. 

Edited February 28 by whelk

[whelk]

48 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

Public debt as a proportion of GDP was 89.2% in 2015 straight after austerity https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/governmentpublicsectorandtaxes/publicspending/bulletins/ukgovernmentdebtanddeficitforeurostatmaast/octtodec2015

As for the energy crisis, we are paying for it - straight in to the public pension funds of mainland European neighbours who own our energy firms.

Public sector pensions - as I understand it most reduced to average earnings at best and few final salary schemes remaining at all, if any.

WFH - what does that cost anybody apart from maybe the railways? And they were already the most expensive in Europe pre-Covid for the worst reliability. Civil service has actually recouped selling buildings and land off. It’s only the Mail that grizzles about WFH because without the advert revenue in the free papers through the major London terminals they nearly went pop.

As for benefits - we had 3m unemployed in the 1980s - ‘unemployment is a price worth paying’. Can’t remember whether Howe or Lawson said it. 

As for COVID, I refer you to the £37bn VIP lane, most were Tory donors and a lot of the PPE didn’t work. 

In 2010, we had more comprehensive public services, not perfect by any means but different league to now, and much lower public debt to GDP.

Its the modern day Tories and Brexit we can’t afford.

He doesn’t have any joy or hope. Let him enjoy his gloom swallowing the populist bile. WFH and pensions? It as if he has no embarrassment showing how thick he is

[pingpong]

A few diversity and woke initiatives and edi officers could have saved 52m for our local council...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-68433863.amp

[skintsaint]

1 hour ago, pingpong said:

A few diversity and woke initiatives and edi officers could have saved 52m for our local council...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-68433863.amp

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-68411512

[Lord Duckhunter]

Fucking don’t talk to me about councils 😡. The merger of Poole Council with Bournemouth & Christchurch has been an absolute disaster for Poole. They were a well run council that provided decent services & charged reasonable rates. Now we’re on the brink of bankruptcy, council tax has gone up ridiculously & any money they do spend is being spent on Bournemouth. Even in the last couple of days they’ve announced they’re not funding long standing summer events in Poole, the Poole beach hut rents are being brought in line with Bournemouth’s (in other words going up horrendously). The Christmas lights were a fucking  joke, whereas Bournemouth had displays in the gardens & markets/entertainment etc.

The thing that really boils my piss, is nobody got a vote on it. Christchurch council even opposed the merger, but the Government over ruled it. We’ve been well and truly screwed over by our larger neighbour who have always wanted the nicer parts of Poole to gradually drift into becoming  part of Bournemouth.

Fucking rant over….

[LuckyNumber7]

Southampton City Council plead poverty but somehow still find millions for ridiculous and unnecessary traffic schemes and 'improvements' that nobody wants and have brought the city to a standstill and made it a nightmare to get anywhere. Can't wait to vote the morons out.

[badgerx16]

32 minutes ago, LuckyNumber7 said:

Southampton City Council plead poverty but somehow still find millions for ridiculous and unnecessary traffic schemes and 'improvements' that nobody wants and have brought the city to a standstill and made it a nightmare to get anywhere. Can't wait to vote the morons out.

What makes you think the alternatives will be any better ?

[LuckyNumber7]

6 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

What makes you think the alternatives will be any better ?

Nothing tbh but they couldn't do a worse job than what Labour are doing right now.

[The Kraken]

25 minutes ago, LuckyNumber7 said:

Nothing tbh but they couldn't do a worse job than what Labour are doing right now.

I’m not sure that’s true and I think the problem runs far deeper than blue or red. Conservatives controlled the council as recently as 2021 and before that had consistently held a decent representation of councillors up until they got massacred last year. It’s just a litany of terrible ideas coming out of council that is to blame. The latest one, the Portswood Broadway fucking abomination is just the latest scheme that hardly anyone wants, residents and shopkeepers vehemently oppose, but the council just plough on regardless because it shaves 2 minutes off the bus times from Southampton to Eastleigh (I wish I was joking, it’s genuinely a big reason they’re doing it).

[whelk]

They should employ people to centrally control and manage traffic lights dynamically. Some of the traffic flow is horrendous with so much unnecessary stop/start with lights green with no fucker going through with main roads snarled as give them 30 seconds which is no where near long enough. One slow bastard looking at their phone when lights go green and handful of cars get through. 
They would argue they have sensor control but if someone could see they need to clear a road as the traffic jams are causing knock on effects. Never going to happen but would help ease pollution so the eco fuckers woudl be happy.

Edited March 2 by whelk

[Farmer Saint]

On 28/02/2024 at 14:00, whelk said:

Many councils find themselves on the brink of financial disaster. Some are Tory shire councils so cannot be dismissed as looney left pissing away money on diversity schemes. 
Feels like hidden austerity as central Government can point that it is a locally managed issue not of their making. It very much isnt and many are cutting all but the essential services they legally have to provide. Such a shame as parks, cultural projects , festivals etc enrich the lives of so many. 
There is enough money to avoid our communities becoming wastelands. 
Graph below not up to date but shows the reduction that gets so less attention than NHS, policing etc. Also heard that Southampton will reject any special needs statement request at first go as to help with funding and and in hope parents won’t appeal. Scandalous for 6th richest economy etc

Tbf, the richest economy in the world suffers massively from this. It's an issue when you devolve powers but then cut the funding. 

It's simple enough, we need to more funding, but we've fucked up this country so much over the past 20 years that the money isn't there. 

We're on the road to nowhere guys, and this shithole of a country, and the cunts that live here, are getting what they deserve. 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

Wrong thread

 

Edited March 2 by Holmes_and_Watson

[Weston Super Saint]

4 hours ago, Farmer Saint said:

Tbf, the richest economy in the world suffers massively from this. It's an issue when you devolve powers but then cut the funding. 

It's simple enough, we need to more funding, but we've fucked up this country so much over the past 20 years that the money isn't there. 

We're on the road to nowhere guys, and this shithole of a country, and the cunts that live here, are getting what they deserve. 

Which is odd given we have the highest tax burden on record.

[hypochondriac]

On 01/03/2024 at 14:18, badgerx16 said:

What makes you think the alternatives will be any better ?

That's true but I'd vote for anyone that can reverse the ridiculous 20mph speed limits around Shirley and particularly Hill Lane. Absolutely absurd. 

[badgerx16]

12 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

That's true but I'd vote for anyone that can reverse the ridiculous 20mph speed limits around Shirley and particularly Hill Lane. Absolutely absurd. 

Lancashire County Council tried to make the whole county "Twenty's plenty"'. One of the few occasions when the public was fully united regardless of political persuasion.

[hypochondriac]

1 hour ago, badgerx16 said:

Lancashire County Council tried to make the whole county "Twenty's plenty"'. One of the few occasions when the public was fully united regardless of political persuasion.

I expect thats the plan for the rest of Southampton in short order. I'd vote for the greens if they promise to reverse it, that's how strongly I feel. 

[Farmer Saint]

19 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Which is odd given we have the highest tax burden on record.

Absolutely it is, you'll have to ask the Tories where all the money has gone because it seems to be nowhere to be seen. We have seen a reduction in GDP of around 4-6% due to Brexit, so that doesn't help, but it also may be reducing that highest level of tax and loading it onto the lesser earners in society. 

Edited March 3 by Farmer Saint

[trousers]

8 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

you'll have to ask the Tories where all the money has gone

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/government-borrowing-peacetime-record-confirmed/

[AlexLaw76]

18 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

Absolutely it is, you'll have to ask the Tories where all the money has gone because it seems to be nowhere to be seen. We have seen a reduction in GDP of around 4-6% due to Brexit, so that doesn't help, but it also may be reducing that highest level of tax and loading it onto the lesser earners in society. 

It is like it never happened, for some

Quote

The Covid-19 pandemic resulted in very high levels of public spending. Current estimates of the total cost of government Covid-19 measures range from about £310 billion to £410 billion.

as for your 6%

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/grossdomesticproductgdp/timeseries/abmi/pn2

 

And that is not even factoring the war in Ukraine, which was are enabling (and costing us billions), and the fact local authorities have to each cater for 1000s of illiterate men who barely speak english. 

Edited March 3 by AlexLaw76

[Farmer Saint]

28 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

It is like it never happened, for some

as for your 6%

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/grossdomesticproductgdp/timeseries/abmi/pn2

 

And that is not even factoring the war in Ukraine, which was are enabling (and costing us billions), and the fact local authorities have to each cater for 1000s of illiterate men who barely speak english. 

The why are we the only country to really suffer:

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/sep/30/uk-is-only-g7-country-with-smaller-economy-than-before-covid-19

Not really sure what the ONS thing is proving, the economy is 4-6% smaller than it should be due to Brexit:

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/02/14/brexit-has-sliced-5percent-off-uk-economic-growth-goldman-sachs-says.html

https://www.london.gov.uk/new-report-reveals-uk-economy-almost-ps140billion-smaller-because-brexit#:~:text=UK real Gross Value Added,in 2023 under this scenario.

Etc, etc. 

Edited March 3 by Farmer Saint

[AlexLaw76]

3 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

The why are we the only country to really suffer:

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/sep/30/uk-is-only-g7-country-with-smaller-economy-than-before-covid-19

In the world of the Guardian......who if I remember rightly, demanded that the insane lockdowns were harder, longer, quicker, sooner...

God know how many more hundreds of Billions of £ that would have cost

Edited March 3 by AlexLaw76

[Farmer Saint]

2 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

In the world of the Guardian......who if I remember rightly, demanded that the insane lockdowns were harder, longer, quicker, sooner...

God know how many more hundreds of Billions of £ that would have cost

It's using stats from the ONS, which you literally just sent me a link to, to prove your point??? 

Edited March 3 by Farmer Saint

[AlexLaw76]

5 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

It's using stats from the ONS, which you literally just sent me a link to, to prove your point??? 

And it has performed better than others. End of the day, people go on about national finances like Covid never happened, despite wanting bigger, harder, longer lockdowns..

People also discount the insane cost of the Ukraine war, which we are enablers of. The cost of which is crippling western europe (as we buy Russian energy from a 3rd or 4th party)

Lets then factor in the need to effectively build a city the size of Birmingham every 12 months (used to be the size of Portsmouth a few years ago), of mostly illiterate young men.

 

Edited March 3 by AlexLaw76

[Farmer Saint]

1 minute ago, AlexLaw76 said:

And it has performed better than others. End of the day, people go on about national finances like Covid never happened, despite wanting bigger, harder, longer lockdowns..

People also discount the insane cost of the Ukraine war, which we are enablers of. The cost of which is crippling western europe (as we buy Russian energy from a 3rd or 4th party)

Lets then factor in the need to effectively build a city the size of Birmingham every 12 months (used to be the size of Portsmouth a few years ago), of mostly illiterate young men.

 

How many of those cities have we built so far then - must have missed that? 

[badgerx16]

37 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

It is like it never happened, for some

as for your 6%

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/grossdomesticproductgdp/timeseries/abmi/pn2

 

And that is not even factoring the war in Ukraine, which was are enabling (and costing us billions), and the fact local authorities have to each cater for 1000s of illiterate men who barely speak english. 

Government borrowing in the 9 months to December was £11Bn more than the same nine months in 2022. The cost of housing immigrants is approx. £2Bn a year.

[Farmer Saint]

I don't really want to get bogged down in the Brexit thing, as it seems odd that people seem to ignore obvious statistics to show it has hampered us, but we can have large borrowing because of the pandemic AND suffer from poor government financial control and economic issues from Brexit. 

[Gloucester Saint]

7 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

I expect thats the plan for the rest of Southampton in short order. I'd vote for the greens if they promise to reverse it, that's how strongly I feel. 

Never understood why local authorities in more built up areas don’t have 20mph limits 8-4.30 for the schools Mon-Fri and 30mph rest of the time with clear and frequent signage.

[Tamesaint]

2 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

Government borrowing in the 9 months to December was £11Bn more than the same nine months in 2022. The cost of housing immigrants is approx. £2Bn a year.

 

2 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

And it has performed better than others. End of the day, people go on about national finances like Covid never happened, despite wanting bigger, harder, longer lockdowns..

People also discount the insane cost of the Ukraine war, which we are enablers of. The cost of which is crippling western europe (as we buy Russian energy from a 3rd or 4th party)

Lets then factor in the need to effectively build a city the size of Birmingham every 12 months (used to be the size of Portsmouth a few years ago), of mostly illiterate young men.

 

If we are looking for areas where money was lost lets not forget the madness that was Liz Truss. Economists debate the cost of her reign and nobody will know the exact figure but estimates of £30 billion are bandied around as being reasonable. 

[whelk]

41 minutes ago, Tamesaint said:

 

If we are looking for areas where money was lost lets not forget the madness that was Liz Truss. Economists debate the cost of her reign and nobody will know the exact figure but estimates of £30 billion are bandied around as being reasonable. 

Deep State has a lot to answer for. Imagine how much more she could’ve lost if they weren’t out to get the lunatic?

Edited March 3 by whelk