Saints 0-1 Stoke - Match Thread

[derry]

36 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Indeed. If anything they got in each other’s way.

Because Bree took up a stupid position and wasn't goal side of THB therefore in a position to block the attacker. As for Stephens he was sloping back rather than busting a gut so was never in any position to help. He might even have got back if he had sprinted flat out. His lack of effort was glaring. Martin should stop trying to fit him in. 

[Badger]

4 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

I take a different view. Players can get injured warming up or even sweeping up leaves. We needed a resounding performance to take us into the playoffs followed by a strong performance next week. Instead we got an insipid capitulation against a team who wanted it far more than us.

You don’t get match fit by being rested. Now we have lost the last three games having scored only one goal and not in the last two. We, or rather he, hasn’t got a chance of getting us motivated and straight out of the traps in the semis.

That is equally a perfectly valid point which I accept to some degree although with three games in the week I don't think they'd get too rusty from being rested yesterday.

The exception to that in my view anyway is Downes, and I'd like to see RM keeping him under wraps until the plays offs. We want another big three games from him this season so not worth risking v Stoke, or even Leeds. 

 

[VectisSaint]

5 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Indeed. If anything they got in each other’s way.

You should both try watching the 'highlights'. Bree was a couple of yards short of THB initially, when their forward moved it forward (to his right), Bree didn't move, as THB had clearly taken the initiative, they were a good 5 yards or more away from Bree when he put in the shot. As I said before you could fault Bree (as Franny said), but it certainly wasn't a case of defenders strolling back as Derry stated.

Of course it was a full backs ball to deal with but we have hardly played with a traditional left back all season, one or other full backs always push up leaving 3 at the back, or even 2 quite often. Hence Manning is always out of position and is defensively hopeless. Yesterday it was Bree who I think is marginally better defensively, but in the system we play neither of them is expected to be a traditional full back and THB would have been expected to close this down, he tried but failed. Not saying I agree with this but this is how we play and how we have played nearly all season, to expect anything different on MD45 is naive.

[derry]

Stephens wasn't alone in a lack of determination to sprint back, Smallbone, Brooks, Charles and Mara were particularly lacking so it was really half the team, no wonder we looked so hopeless. The goal had directly nothing to do with Stephens but Bree wasn't goalside of both Campbell and THB so once he sold THB the dummy he was free to get his shot away. If Bree had been goalside he would have been able to challenge. Bree was in a poor position and should have been goalside of THB, that was his fault and choice.

Edited April 29 by derry

[Tommy Mulgrew]

As usual in our slow build-up play, we lost the ball while overcommitting our entire team except THB and Macca and Hoever lofted the ball forward over Stephens’s head to Campbell.  Stephens and Bree had wandered forward, Bree acceptably so, according to our usual practice, but not so Stephens, who left Campbell unmarked.  THB came left from his position on our right to cover for the missing Stephens and tried to shepherd Campbell to the goal line away from the goal.  Bree got back to help him and rightly took up position to negate a possible cutback by Campbell to have a shot more directly in front of the goal.  Campbell shifted forward towards the goal line, with THB a bit slow to follow him , and unleashed a powerful shot straight at Macca, who was making himself as big as possible to reduce the unprotected area of the goal and therefore not standing still with his feet together, and the ball sped between his legs into the net. Stephens, meanwhile trotted back to take up THB’s usual position on our right.  If Bree and THB had tried to swap positions while trying to stop Campbell from shooting they would probably have contrived merely to make the shot on goal easier to get away.

That is how I remember it.  No faulting Macca or Bree.  THB could have done better but Campbell took his chance well.  The real culprit was Stephens, who was in No-CB Land marking nobody and leaving Campbell unmarked and onside.

I might have remembered it wrongly but I don’t think so.  Still, “memories might differ”, I suppose.

[JRM]

8 hours ago, Tommy Mulgrew said:

As usual in our slow build-up play, we lost the ball while overcommitting our entire team except THB and Macca and Hoever lofted the ball forward over Stephens’s head to Campbell.  Stephens and Bree had wandered forward, Bree acceptably so, according to our usual practice, but not so Stephens, who left Campbell unmarked.  THB came left from his position on our right to cover for the missing Stephens and tried to shepherd Campbell to the goal line away from the goal.  Bree got back to help him and rightly took up position to negate a possible cutback by Campbell to have a shot more directly in front of the goal.  Campbell shifted forward towards the goal line, with THB a bit slow to follow him , and unleashed a powerful shot straight at Macca, who was making himself as big as possible to reduce the unprotected area of the goal and therefore not standing still with his feet together, and the ball sped between his legs into the net. Stephens, meanwhile trotted back to take up THB’s usual position on our right.  If Bree and THB had tried to swap positions while trying to stop Campbell from shooting they would probably have contrived merely to make the shot on goal easier to get away.

That is how I remember it.  No faulting Macca or Bree.  THB could have done better but Campbell took his chance well.  The real culprit was Stephens, who was in No-CB Land marking nobody and leaving Campbell unmarked and onside.

I might have remembered it wrongly but I don’t think so.  Still, “memories might differ”, I suppose.

Come on THB should have done better from here 

[The Cat]

1 minute ago, JRM said:

Come on THB should have done better from here 

From the other end I thought it was Bree who the attacker was up against and kind of just accepted it because he isn't that good. 

THB, on the other hand, is much better and should have done more to prevent the goal.

[JRM]

35 minutes ago, The Cat said:

From the other end I thought it was Bree who the attacker was up against and kind of just accepted it because he isn't that good. 

THB, on the other hand, is much better and should have done more to prevent the goal.

Yeah the ease the attacker scores from there isn't good for this level, did someone say he is Kevin Campbell's son? That makes me feel old! 

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, JRM said:

Come on THB should have done better from here 

Three attackers against four defenders? The other two have plenty of space too. It’s awful defending.

[JRM]

48 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Three attackers against four defenders? The other two have plenty of space too. It’s awful defending.

Caught out when losing the ball, little or no support from midfield, it's a familiar story 

[DT]

The tactics aren't working and the players are showing signs that they don't believe that too. We're going to get burned at Leeds and in the play-offs unless they actually have a spark caused by the fact that, actually, they need to score goals and not let them in quite so readily. The space we allowed Stoke was criminal. There was no urgency in our play, and the personnel Martin picked were not up to the job. In THB's case, he looked he can't really be arsed and is more concerned not to get injured for the new club. The whole team looked a bit like that - as if they would rather be negotiating their next contracts away. KWP excepted, and he is probably the only one for whom that can be justified.

Time to look at a new strategy with a manager who can keep things tight. David Moyes please. (I can dream)

[david in sweden]

It's a team game and much as I dislike criticising individual players there are a few who... (for various reasons)... just aren't up to it.

Those who show " on the ball skills" , and a little attacking flair just don't score regularly enough ( Brooks, Mara ). 

 

I was impressed by Edozie's efforts but in every game his enthusiasm is tempered by thundering tackles from bigger / stronger defenders, who 

" aren't used to taking prisoners ",  and Sam is often first to subbed on, he is also one of the first to go off off if chosen to start.

 

The majority of our squad (exception the CB's).. are  " lightweight and (to be frank).. too short "  to be effective and withstand such treatment in every game.

It's not fair to start dismembering the squad before we are out of the plays-off  BUT even if we qualify for the third place , major changes will be necessary.

 

[Monk]

Possibly posted elsewhere but I can't be bothered to scroll. 

The fact we've made the play-offs and yet St Mary's was 3/4 empty for the players lap of appreciation, does this scream that there's a lot of the distaste towards RM and/or this team?

I'm not a fan of RM at all, I do not want to go up under him but I also worry if we don't we're stuck in this league for a while. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

6 hours ago, JRM said:

Come on THB should have done better from here 

Course it was his fault. He’s played well this season & was decent but was beaten way too easily for that one. If that was Stephen’s a few would be having a meltdown. Trying to blame Bree is ridiculous. 

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, Monk said:

Possibly posted elsewhere but I can't be bothered to scroll. 

The fact we've made the play-offs and yet St Mary's was 3/4 empty for the players lap of appreciation, does this scream that there's a lot of the distaste towards RM and/or this team?

Not at all. It means that they got fed up being made to wait over twenty minutes on a cold and rainy day. They were luck that anybody was left inside the stadium.

[malcolm waldron]

2 hours ago, david in sweden said:

It's a team game and much as I dislike criticising individual players there are a few who... (for various reasons)... just aren't up to it.

Those who show " on the ball skills" , and a little attacking flair just don't score regularly enough ( Brooks, Mara ). 

 

I was impressed by Edozie's efforts but in every game his enthusiasm is tempered by thundering tackles from bigger / stronger defenders, who 

" aren't used to taking prisoners ",  and Sam is often first to subbed on, he is also one of the first to go off off if chosen to start.

 

The majority of our squad (exception the CB's).. are  " lightweight and (to be frank).. too short "  to be effective and withstand such treatment in every game.

It's not fair to start dismembering the squad before we are out of the plays-off  BUT even if we qualify for the third place , major changes will be necessary.

 

A number of good points made here - especially on the size and physicality of the squad.  All I will add is that you're very partial to the use of the old "inverted commas" aren't you.....!

[Tommy Mulgrew]

6 hours ago, JRM said:

Come on THB should have done better from here 

I agree; that’ why I typed: “…with THB a bit slow to follow him … THB could have done better …”.  Both our CBs were lacking in this instance and the result was a goal.  It happens sometimes.  With us, it happens regularly every match.  And we then have to outscore the opposition, a feat that we regularly do not do.

We now need to change the momentum of three losses in a row before now and get three wins in a row after the Leeds game.  I cannot see it happening, though, but we need to support the team on the pitch for our remaining matches.

[Whitey Grandad]

4 hours ago, Tommy Mulgrew said:

I agree; that’ why I typed: “…with THB a bit slow to follow him … THB could have done better …”.  Both our CBs were lacking in this instance and the result was a goal.  It happens sometimes.  With us, it happens regularly every match.  And we then have to outscore the opposition, a feat that we regularly do not do.

We now need to change the momentum of three losses in a row before now and get three wins in a row after the Leeds game.  I cannot see it happening, though, but we need to support the team on the pitch for our remaining matches.

Strictly speaking we don’t have to win all three playoffs.

[trousers]

11 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Strictly speaking we don’t have to win all three playoffs.

If, between us, we were going to go into full MLG mode, we could draw all three matches and still get promoted....

Edited April 29 by trousers

[coalman]

1 minute ago, trousers said:

If, between us, we were going to go into full MLG mode, we could draw all three matches and still go through....

[trousers]

5 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Not at all. It means that they got fed up being made to wait over twenty minutes on a cold and rainy day. They were luck that anybody was left inside the stadium.

The vast majority of people who left did so straight after the final whistle , at which point we didn't know how long it would take for the players to come back out.... So most people had made their minds up before any waiting kicked in...

Edited April 29 by trousers

[The Cat]

7 hours ago, Monk said:

Possibly posted elsewhere but I can't be bothered to scroll. 

The fact we've made the play-offs and yet St Mary's was 3/4 empty for the players lap of appreciation, does this scream that there's a lot of the distaste towards RM and/or this team?

I'm not a fan of RM at all, I do not want to go up under him but I also worry if we don't we're stuck in this league for a while. 

I think it's because most football fans are fickle bellends. If we'd beaten Cardiff and Stoke but still been locked into 4th because of other results then loads of people would have stayed.

I left because I knew no one would stay and that it would end up being a bit embarrassing. 

[S-Clarke]

8 hours ago, Monk said:

Possibly posted elsewhere but I can't be bothered to scroll. 

The fact we've made the play-offs and yet St Mary's was 3/4 empty for the players lap of appreciation, does this scream that there's a lot of the distaste towards RM and/or this team?

I'm not a fan of RM at all, I do not want to go up under him but I also worry if we don't we're stuck in this league for a while. 

I think it just illustrates how most fans have felt about this season overall, pretty underwhelming all being said. We've never really be in contention for the auto's, just flirted for a week or two - not good enough imo.

I always thought it would take mid 90's to get automatic promotion, I predicted we'd hit high 80's/low 90's and just miss out and that was being somewhat pessimistic - but we're on course to do even worse than that. Our run of form since Bristol City has just been the thing of nightmares (8 defeats out of 16, and only 6 wins out of that lot), our start was bad and our end has been even worse. I think the fan base is just bored with it all, it was a season which promised so much (it could still give us what we want, but it all feels a little low key now)