The Starmer Years - Can The New Broom Sweep Clean?

[whelk]

16 minutes ago, egg said:

Interesting. I think the opposite. Driving along and focusing on your speed / speedo is distracting and dangerous. 20 is sufficiently slow for safety reasons imo. 

Re drink driving stats, I had a look earlier about the impact in Scotland of the reduction and the summary was that it hadn't made any real difference. 

I was joking about 10mph but there are some who want to eliminate risk in anything. 

Cheers - I would be interested in all the urban casualties between 20 and 30mph limits as well- suspect negligible.
 

At risk of sounding like a Reform voter but see so many shit drivers on the roads and convinced immigrants don’t have the same respect for the Highway Code. Also so many generally distracted by mobile phones. No traffic wardens to get all the bastards who don’t give a shit where they park either.

[egg]

4 minutes ago, whelk said:

I was joking about 10mph but there are some who want to eliminate risk in anything. 

Cheers - I would be interested in all the urban casualties between 20 and 30mph limits as well- suspect negligible.
 

At risk of sounding like a Reform voter but see so many shit drivers on the roads and convinced immigrants don’t have the same respect for the Highway Code. Also so many generally distracted by mobile phones. No traffic wardens to get all the bastards who don’t give a shit where they park either.

Agree re immigrant drivers. Respect has gone - no filtering, letting people in/out, just selfish people looking after number 1. Also people who haven't got a clue who's turn it is at a roundabout have probably learnt to drive elsewhere. 

[sadoldgit]

In Wales between 2023/24 there were 10 fewer deaths in the 20mph zones and 100 fewer people either killed or seriously injured. 
London- 40% reduction from 15 deaths to 9. 34% in those’d killed or seriously injured. Child deaths reduced by 75% from 4 to 1.  50% reduction in overall child casualties.

The risk of being killed in a collision is 5 times higher at 30mph than 20mph.

As for looking at the speedo, modern cars beep at you when you exceed the speed limit so there is no need to look at the dashboard. If you don’t have the warning signal, just drive slowly if you are worried about taking your eyes off the road 😉

It is a pain in the butt driving at 20mph, especially within the North/South circular roads in London in quiet periods, but the reduced speed zones are clearly saving lives and reducing the number of serious injuries.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

4 hours ago, whelk said:

Absolute pricks wanting to lower the drink driving limit.

It will just put more pubs out of business. In Scotland it hit golf courses hardest.

[Lord Duckhunter]

1 hour ago, sadoldgit said:

London- 40% reduction from 15 deaths to 9.

If everybody drove around at 10mph , we could reduce it further, and if we banned cars totally, we could save those 9 unfortunates souls. 

[hypochondriac]

13 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

If everybody drove around at 10mph , we could reduce it further, and if we banned cars totally, we could save those 9 unfortunates souls. 

Think how many deaths we would save if we banned all knives and cut all our food by hacking at it with the edge of a spoon.

[Weston Super Saint]

2 hours ago, egg said:

Agree re immigrant drivers. Respect has gone - no filtering, letting people in/out, just selfish people looking after number 1. Also people who haven't got a clue who's turn it is at a roundabout have probably learnt to drive elsewhere. 

Never let that worry you!!  Drive down the emptiest lane until you spot a Tesla, then pull in in front of that.  The Tesla driver definitely won't let you, but the car's in charge in this relationship, the auto brake will activate and the car will merrily wave you in front of it.  Works everytime

[egg]

Just now, Weston Super Saint said:

Never let that worry you!!  Drive down the emptiest lane until you spot a Tesla, then pull in in front of that.  The Tesla driver definitely won't let you, but the car's in charge in this relationship, the auto brake will activate and the car will merrily wave you in front of it.  Works everytime

Great fact! I'll try that, cheers. 

[sadoldgit]

3 hours ago, Sergei Gotsmanov said:

It will just put more pubs out of business. In Scotland it hit golf courses hardest.

Pubs shouldn’t rely on people being over the drink driving limit to survive though should they. If there is a designated driver they shouldn’t be drinking. If everyone wants a drink, get a taxi. There are other issues effecting the viability of pubs.

[egg]

1 minute ago, sadoldgit said:

Pubs shouldn’t rely on people being over the drink driving limit to survive though should they. If there is a designated driver they shouldn’t be drinking. If everyone wants a drink, get a taxi. There are other issues effecting the viability of pubs.

There are, but less punters is the fundamental issue. 

[trousers]

19 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

Pubs shouldn’t rely on people being over the drink driving limit to survive

I moved to the heart of rural Devon 5 years ago and it's clear to me that the small local familiy run pubs in the area do depend to a certain degree on their regulars popping in for a 'couple of beers', especially outside of tourist season. Due to the spread out nature of the countryside community, many of these regulars aren't within walking distance and there's no local taxi service to speak of. One of the main aspects I love about countryside living is that pubs double-up as community hubs and are a lifeline to many country folk. It's a great place to live and the local pub culture is part of that.

Lowering the drink driving limit would, I believe, seriously impact this countryside 'ecosystem', which would be a huge shame in my opinion. I happen to think 'a couple of pints' is a perfectly reasonable limit and would advocate leaving things be. Unless, of course, there are stats that show a significant increase in accidents in people that have had two pints compared to one....?

 

Edited yesterday at 15:50 by trousers

[badgerx16]

Why do you have to drink alcohol when you go to a pub for the social aspect ?

[trousers]

4 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Why do you have to drink alcohol when you go to a pub for the social aspect ?

Are you my wife? 

Edited yesterday at 16:02 by trousers

[Farmer Saint]

44 minutes ago, trousers said:

I moved to the heart of rural Devon 5 years ago and it's clear to me that the small local familiy run pubs in the area do depend to a certain degree on their regulars popping in for a 'couple of beers', especially outside of tourist season. Due to the spread out nature of the countryside community, many of these regulars aren't within walking distance and there's no local taxi service to speak of. One of the main aspects I love about countryside living is that pubs double-up as community hubs and are a lifeline to many country folk. It's a great place to live and the local pub culture is part of that.

Lowering the drink driving limit would, I believe, seriously impact this countryside 'ecosystem', which would be a huge shame in my opinion. I happen to think 'a couple of pints' is a perfectly reasonable limit and would advocate leaving things be. Unless, of course, there are stats that show a significant increase in accidents in people that have had two pints compared to one....?

 

There's no police in those communities anyway...

[Whitey Grandad]

On 07/01/2026 at 08:02, Farmer Saint said:

Apparently 1 in 4 road deaths is someone over 70. That's some pretty damning statistics...

But were they the ones behind the wheel? We all know how careful we have to be about statistics 😉

Edited 6 hours ago by Whitey Grandad

[badgerx16]

19 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

There's no police in those communities anyway...

There is usually 1 Community Officer who does the rounds on a fortnightly rota, and probably does most of his work in the village pubs. Occasionally a traffic car might be deployed, but usually this is publicised in advance in the local media outlets.

( Our "Police station" is a telephone that goes through to a part-time station 10 miles away, that is fitted to the outside of the village fire station, and one morning a week a PCSO sits in a room in the fire station for a couple of hours ).

Edited yesterday at 16:57 by badgerx16

[trousers]

54 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

There's no police in those communities anyway...

[Lord Duckhunter]

2 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

If there is a designated driver they shouldn’t be drinking.

So it’s ok if there isn’t? 

[AlexLaw76]

33 minutes ago, trousers said:

Which part of Devon are you in?

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

2 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

Pubs shouldn’t rely on people being over the drink driving limit to survive though should they. If there is a designated driver they shouldn’t be drinking. If everyone wants a drink, get a taxi. There are other issues effecting the viability of pubs.

In Scotland the lowering of the limit was shown to have had no effect on road deaths but our government chooses to press on anyway and clobber the pubs. It is a basic human right to take drink with your community. It probably helps to keep thousand of people's mental health in balance doing so. Words fail me why they would not want to follow the path of common sense! 

As an aside my local's business rates have gone up from £21K to £55K. Add onto this the rise in minimum wage (tips don't count) and you can see why pubs are failing. 

[badgerx16]

Reducing the limit will probably not do much to reduce the number of drink-driving related deaths, as the sort of person ignoring the current limit will not change their behaviour or reduce their alcohol consumption. I assume that the current limit is based on medical evaluation that drivers are not seriously impaired at that blood alcohol level. Has that opinion now changed ? How many road accidents are caused by drivers whose blood alcohol levels are currently legal but would fail the lower test ?

[whelk]

21 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Reducing the limit will probably not do much to reduce the number of drink-driving related deaths, as the sort of person ignoring the current limit will not change their behaviour or reduce their alcohol consumption. I assume that the current limit is based on medical evaluation that drivers are not seriously impaired at that blood alcohol level. Has that opinion now changed ? How many road accidents are caused by drivers whose blood alcohol levels are currently legal but would fail the lower test ?

Exactly 

[Gloucester Saint]

1 hour ago, Sergei Gotsmanov said:

In Scotland the lowering of the limit was shown to have had no effect on road deaths but our government chooses to press on anyway and clobber the pubs. It is a basic human right to take drink with your community. It probably helps to keep thousand of people's mental health in balance doing so. Words fail me why they would not want to follow the path of common sense! 

As an aside my local's business rates have gone up from £21K to £55K. Add onto this the rise in minimum wage (tips don't count) and you can see why pubs are failing. 

I sense a change on business rates for pubs, and needs to be https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy59k2rdkv5o

The behaviour of certain pubcos needs reining in though. 

[sadoldgit]

48 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Reducing the limit will probably not do much to reduce the number of drink-driving related deaths, as the sort of person ignoring the current limit will not change their behaviour or reduce their alcohol consumption. I assume that the current limit is based on medical evaluation that drivers are not seriously impaired at that blood alcohol level. Has that opinion now changed ? How many road accidents are caused by drivers whose blood alcohol levels are currently legal but would fail the lower test ?

During my time with the CPS I spent a year working at Medway nick. The police there were of the opinion that you shouldn’t have any alcohol in your system if you are driving as different amounts cause different impairment levels in different people. Even small amount could cause a problem for some people.

The pictures in the files in RTA fatality cases are horrific and they have to deal with them first hand. Anything that can be done to reduce the number of drink/drug related accidents can only be a good thing.

[trousers]

1 hour ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Which part of Devon are you in?

 

[badgerx16]

17 minutes ago, trousers said:

 

Dartmoor Prison ?

[badgerx16]

20 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

During my time with the CPS I spent a year working at Medway nick. The police there were of the opinion that you shouldn’t have any alcohol in your system if you are driving as different amounts cause different impairment levels in different people. Even small amount could cause a problem for some people.

The pictures in the files in RTA fatality cases are horrific and they have to deal with them first hand. Anything that can be done to reduce the number of drink/drug related accidents can only be a good thing.

This may be an admirable aspiration, but given it can take up to 24 hours for 1 unit of alcohol to fully leave your system, a zero limit is only possible in a totally teetotal society. ( I also wonder how many coppers turn up for work after drinking the night before ).

[Lord Duckhunter]

25 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

During my time with the CPS

 

 

 

[whelk]

28 minutes ago, trousers said:

 

Do you drive to an internet cafe?

[trousers]

7 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Dartmoor Prison ?

Ha

You didn't cover the UK in your O-Level Geography lessons then...?  (although, to be fair, you're only 38 miles out )

P.s. Dartmoor Prison is currently closed due to abnormal levels of radon gas ☢️

 

[trousers]

Just now, whelk said:

Do you drive to an internet cafe?

No, horse and carriage...

[Gloucester Saint]

7 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

This may be an admirable aspiration, but given it can take up to 24 hours for 1 unit of alcohol to fully leave your system, a zero limit is only possible in a totally teetotal society. ( I also wonder how many coppers turn up for work after drinking the night before ).

Or eat ripe bananas. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

2 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

I also wonder how many coppers turn up for work after drinking the night before ).

A copper once pulled me up on parking my car at the pub & walking home. He wasn’t saying I should have driven home, only I should have parked elsewhere. Said you’re advertising the fact you had a skinful the night before. He reckoned some wankers  used to nick loads of blokes picking their cars up in the morning,as the alcohol hadn’t cleared their system. They would look at the pub carparks and if they then saw the same car on the road would find an excuse to pull them over. He hated those cops as much as us.  
 

I try not to drive the whole following day after a skin full, but if I do try and give it 12 hours at least. These new limits will make that harder to judge. You’ll probably be ok because traffic plod will be too busy nicking people for doing 25 in a 20. 

[Gloucester Saint]

40 minutes ago, trousers said:

 

Proportions on that map are slightly odd, but I’m going to guess that the nearest small town is South Molton (nice by day and not so by night) and you’re circa 15-20 miles from Crediton.

More towards Okehampton but the Uncle Tom Cobleigh is a must-visit in Spreyton for real ale. On Dartmoor, the Rugglestone Inn at Widecombe was a regular of ours and one of my favourite pubs in England.

Edited yesterday at 19:58 by Gloucester Saint

[Gloucester Saint]

17 minutes ago, trousers said:

Ha

You didn't cover the UK in your O-Level Geography lessons then...?  (although, to be fair, you're only 38 miles out )

P.s. Dartmoor Prison is currently closed due to abnormal levels of radon gas ☢️

 

New houses in most parts of Devon and Cornwall, that part of Dartmoor especially, tend to have radon extractor fans fitted underneath the houses to extract any gas from under the floors and out via a pipe. Many older houses have one retro-fitted. If anyone is ever considering buying down that way, NERC and the BGS can run a survey mapping your area for radon concentrations for only a few quid. That way, you can ask the vendor to confirm they have radon extraction. 

Edited yesterday at 20:04 by Gloucester Saint

[trousers]

28 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

Proportions on that map are slightly odd, but I’m going to guess that the nearest small town is South Molton (nice by day and not so by night) and you’re circa 15-20 miles from Crediton.

 

Spot on 👍🏻

 

16 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

More towards Okehampton but the Uncle Tom Cobleigh is a must-visit in Spreyton for real ale. On Dartmoor, the Rugglestone Inn at Widecombe was a regular of ours and one of my favourite pubs in England.

Always looking for new local-ish hostelries to try out, so cheers for the Tom Cobleigh recommendation. Looks superb from quick online look-up. Will have a couple of pints there before these twats in government change the drink driving laws...

Keep meaning to try out the Rugglestone Inn when on Dartmoor but never got around to it yet. Defo on the list for this year!

 

P.s. apologies to our noble mods for going off topic

Edited yesterday at 20:21 by trousers

[Gloucester Saint]

11 minutes ago, trousers said:

Spot on 👍🏻

 

Always looking for new local-ish hostelries to try out, so cheers for the Tom Cobleigh recommendation. Looks superb from quick online look-up.

Keep meaning to try out the Rugglestone Inn when on Dartmoor but never got around to it yet. Defo on the list for this year!

 

P.s. apologies to our noble mods for going off topic

Beer Engine in Newton St Cyres just north of Exeter so bit more of a trip (has railway station on the Barnstaple to Exeter line) brews its own stuff. Had my 40th party there complete with a Saints birthday cake. Nice walks around the pub as well.

To the East of you nearer the M5 the Culm Valley Inn was always a good place. 

Haven’t been to this one for circa 14-15 years but it was always well regarded https://www.facebook.com/KingsNympton/?locale=en_GB

Edited yesterday at 20:32 by Gloucester Saint

[trousers]

6 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

Beer Engine in Newton St Cyres just north of Exeter so bit more of a trip (has railway station on the Barnstaple to Exeter line) brews its own stuff. Had my 40th party there complete with a Saints birthday cake. Nice walks around the pub as well.

Yep, nice place... go there fairly often.... Nice food too 👍🏻

[trousers]

9 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

Haven’t been to this one for circa 14-15 years but it was always well regarded https://www.facebook.com/KingsNympton/?locale=en_GB

Another good one. 4 miles from me. 

[trousers]

Best we get back on topic though...

"Starmer's a knob"

Hopefully that'll keep the mods off our scent

[Holmes_and_Watson]

1 hour ago, Gloucester Saint said:

Proportions on that map are slightly odd, but I’m going to guess that the nearest small town is South Molton (nice by day and not so by night) and you’re circa 15-20 miles from Crediton.

More towards Okehampton but the Uncle Tom Cobleigh is a must-visit in Spreyton for real ale. On Dartmoor, the Rugglestone Inn at Widecombe was a regular of ours and one of my favourite pubs in England.

The trousers stalker is not a name you'd want for a number of reasons. 🙂

[Lord Duckhunter]

Starmer should take note.

Denmarks PM announcing a deportation policy aimed at illegal Muslim migrants, stated; 

“You are not supposed to be here. We are fed up with your reckless way of life. We are fed up with your culture of dominance. You are destroying the happiest country in the world,” 

[Gloucester Saint]

8 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Starmer should take note.

Denmarks PM announcing a deportation policy aimed at illegal Muslim migrants, stated; 

“You are not supposed to be here. We are fed up with your reckless way of life. We are fed up with your culture of dominance. You are destroying the happiest country in the world,” 

Mahmood has been studying it closely to be objective and already the visa ban on DRC with more to come. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

There’s more chance of going to the moon in shoe box than a labour PM saying something like that.