Saints 3-2 WBA - Match Thread

[SWLondon Saint]

22 minutes ago, Thripp87 said:

For me it’s the best outcome last night. A win, but with plenty of learning and points to analyse for our still rookie manager.

For what it’s worth I think he is spot on taking Scienza off when he is and with the score at 3-0. He if kept fit can take us up, we have no chance of promotion with him injured for any considerable length of time. I’ve never seen a player get fouled as often as him either.

6 wins in 7 and still helmets digging at Tonda. Expect you were demanding an unrealistic option or “other” as the next manager 6 weeks ago. 

I also agree with taking off Scienza as early as possible to protect him - actually I think he could've come off at halftime as it's sometimes easier for a sub to come on then and get up to speed in the game.

No-one (well, very few) is 'having a go' at Tonda, people are just rightly concerned at the terrible defending / second half when West Brom deserved to come away with a point except for a terrible miss at the end there.

I don't agree that having a 'Ben Mee type' would make the difference UNLESS they can also tell the midfield to stop camping on top of the box and get further up and out. If you let as many crosses as we do come into the box, sooner or later you're going to concede no matter how good you are at heading it just based on luck.

[Chez]

11 hours ago, Vancouver Saint said:

Bazunu simply not good enough - what keeper at this level cannot command his 3-yard box in the middle of the goal for corners?

I am not a fan of his, and I have stated he was 'weak', but plenty of keepers in the Premier League have had issues at set pieces this season with opposing teams packing the six yard box and making it very difficult for the keeper to move around/command the six yard box. For the second goal there was a WBA backing into him making it almost impossible to get to the cross. That tactic is problem for lots of keepers, not just Baz.

[Chez]

11 hours ago, Wade Garrett said:

Thought Downes was excellent again.

Great win.  Just a bit critical of our wing backs when we’re under the cosh - none of them - Manning, Fellows or Frazer can defend.  Would have preferred Edwards to come on and play the right side when Fellows was subbed.

How good was that first half though.

Edwards offers a little more height at the back post, but not sure he is great at full back. He knows how to defend, but has he got the pace to prevent wingers getting crosses in? When is Roserslev fit? 

[Chez]

40 minutes ago, SWLondon Saint said:

If you let as many crosses as we do come into the box, sooner or later you're going to concede no matter how good you are at heading it just based on luck.

That's a very good point. Got to stop the source. First half we are pressing their defenders and midfield causing them to turn the ball over. Without that press, we allow the opponent to get into our third far too easily and then we basically rely on the three CBs to win headers. 

[Turkish]

2 hours ago, Wade Garrett said:

I agree, but I think Tonda will work this out.  He brought Edwards on Saturday when Fellows was getting beaten and we looked a lot stronger at the back for it.  I think it was a mistake to put Frazer instead of Edwards last night but hindsight is a wonderful thing.

 

We dont have a fit right back at the moment do we? Agree that bring Frazer on was probably a mistake but to tighten up a bit you'd think when Rostev and Elert are fit they'll be the ones to come on.

[CheshireSaint]

Intensity and momentum. We start with intensity and very quickly build momentum. This combination is blowing teams away in the first half. Scienza and Armstrong are key to this and it is up to the opposition has to somehow, resist this momentum and reduce the intensity. Harder said than done. Well, it should be. However, by taking Scienza and Armstrong off, the opposition doesn't need to work out a way, we do it for them. The rest of our team then adopt a more negative demeanour and allow the opposition to build their own intensity and momentum and we in turn struggle to resist them. WBA's better second half performance was nothing to do with the ability of Ryan Mason and all to do with the inability of Tonda.

Tonda has done brilliantly so far but that second half was shockingly terrible. I understand anyone would struggle maintaining such high tempo football for 90 mins but Tonda needs to find away of slipping out of top gear, into something more effective than neutral. Sublime to Steady, not Sublime to Ridiculous. If we consider Sublime as the final third, Steady as the middle third and Ridiculous as the defensive third; we need to ensure we go from the attacking third, into the middle third instead of conceding the middle third and allowing the opposition to press us constantly in the defensive third. Hopefully the return of Charles, a fitter Romeu and Bragg over Aribo (why is he insisting on him) will help this. Cramming the defence isn't the answer, as the opposition is already there, thanks for the invite.

Replacing Scienza with Robinson doesn't help us maintain the tempo nor does it particularly bolster the midfield. Similarly, replacing Armstrong with Archer has the same effect. It significantly weakens one area but doesn't improve any other. Utterly pointless substitutions. Replacing them in combination just doubles the effect. Take Scienza off and replace with Bragg for instance, weakens the attack but strengthens the midfield which should only aid the defence. Point being, we can consolidate the attack when 3 up, as long as we strengthen in the middle and prevent offering the momentum on a plate to the opposition. If we then take off Armstrong for Archer, the impact is lessened as we don't need Archer to track back as much (he doesn't) as we have an additional midfielder in there. Archer can then concentrate on playing on the shoulder of their last defender, giving them something to consider when thinking of committing players forward, chasing the game.

[Jack]

5 minutes ago, Chez said:

Edwards offers a little more height at the back post, but not sure he is great at full back. He knows how to defend, but has he got the pace to prevent wingers getting crosses in? When is Roserslev fit? 

Neither Fraser or Manning were able to stop the crosses from coming in either so I’d have taken the height and defensive instinct in that situation. 
 

Very ropey subs last night. We were getting overrun and needed to see it out, 5’2 Fraser against a physical side, plus Aribo and Romeu when really we needed some legs in the middle. But got there in the end and the first half was top class. Sure Tonda will keep learning from these, if we make mistakes and still get the 3 points then it can be a positive if he learns from it 

[TheAlehouseBrawlers]

1 hour ago, AlexLaw76 said:

 

Tonda reaction

 

• Very positive to win 4 at home in a row
• We need the supporters to bring some games home and well done to those at St Marys
• Tremendous from the fans 

I think he’s being a little generous there, if we’re gonna knock the second half performance (and it wasn’t good) then we should knock the ‘support’ too.

I was expecting a real buzz around last night, but 75% of the ground was its usual comatose state and the Northam rarely got going together, mostly one side singing one thing and the other something completely different.

I’m not overly worried about the ‘singing’ but more about just making some noise and roaring the team on a bit more. We’re now making it a fortress regards results but nothing like an intimidating place for visitors.

[Football Special]

8 minutes ago, TheAlehouseBrawlers said:

I think he’s being a little generous there, if we’re gonna knock the second half performance (and it wasn’t good) then we should knock the ‘support’ too.

I was expecting a real buzz around last night, but 75% of the ground was its usual comatose state and the Northam rarely got going together, mostly one side singing one thing and the other something completely different.

I’m not overly worried about the ‘singing’ but more about just making some noise and roaring the team on a bit more. We’re now making it a fortress regards results but nothing like an intimidating place for visitors.

Last few minutes crowd woke up a bit but for most of the 2nd half if felt like the crowd and players were just clock watching 

[Bakovnetski]

11 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

I'm with you on Quarshie, he scares the living daylights out of me. He's like a rabbit in headlights out there when put under any form of pressure.

Sometimes you can spot a good player - like Fellows, Azaz, Jander, Leo (irrespective of age), but this guy looks like a bit of a dud.

I think we need to give him some time yet to adapt to the Championship style and pace versus what he has developed under so far in Germany. He's only getting the odd game at the moment so for a youngster (which he is) it's still a learning curve and tough for one off games. He's not like Downs who is definitely not up to scratch to even play and learn in my opinion, he's a definite prospect that needs some support. To take the view that he's a dud already is premature. 

[OldNick]

First half we were ok but hardly fantastic,we took advantage of a sublimepass by Azaz, a great runby Fellows and a defenders mistake. Their keeper hardly had to make a save.

2nd half we just surrendered midfield and decided to play along the back. Jander looked tired, Robinson came on and did nothing. Frazer ran a lot but was ineffective.

We still need a bigforward to hold the ball up so that the defence can clear the ball up to him and we can build from there.

Baz is not my choice, he yet again let one in on his left and did seem to be too close to his near post, I havent seen the replay of their 2nd but he seemed weak but may have been fouled. McCarthy was better at dealing with these situations as he would go and punch or catch.

Manning brillian clearance off the line, Baz a good tipover.

Oriol looked like an old man out there and really needs to get up to speed.

I dont understand why our midfield loses control, the return of Che may make a massive difference.

Flynn played ok.

Iagreed that Leo and Armstrong needed prtecting by coming off nd Archer gave his all, showed more zip than I seen him do at any time.

I believe Quarsie will become a top defender, and did little wrong. 

[Bakovnetski]

2 hours ago, Sheaf Saint said:

I didn't even realise Fraser had come on until deep into stoppage time, which kinda shows just how little he contributed. 

He was pretty ineffective last night, so you have to wonder about keeping him on.

[DellBlockH]

FWIW, I thought Aribo was OK last night, unlike all his other appearances this season. He put some effort in and won 50/50s. 

[Jack]

33 minutes ago, Football Special said:

Last few minutes crowd woke up a bit but for most of the 2nd half if felt like the crowd and players were just clock watching 

It seemed pretty clear we came out 2nd half to nullify the game, as has happened a fair bit recently, and it was reflected in the crowd. It’s a shame because at 3-0 up you’d hope it’d be a party in there, but it was going to be boring at best with no goals conceded, and tense at worst with goals conceded. 
 

Good noise at the end to get us over the line but it’s been really flat there recently even with the decent form