Wotte on Burley in the Echo

[Fitzhugh Fella]

The Echo last night published part of an interview with Wotte who revealed that back in 2005 when Redknapp left he was actually offered a contract by Saints and as a result quit his job as Director of Football at Feyenoord. It says "when news of the probable appointment got out there was something of a backlash from the supporters and the board bowed to fans' calls and opted for a manager with British experience in the shape of george Burley".

 

Wotte says "I got an offer but they gave an offer to Burley as well..... the situation was grim and I think there were a lot of camps - some wanted me some wanted Burley. Suddenly I had a phone call to tell me they just appointed Burley. I knew there was another candidate but for me in Holland if you offer someone a contract you do it only when you know you want this person and you don't offer two people a contract. I was a little surprised but then when Rupert told me his motivation I told him OK this is the way it works in England. Rupert stayed in touch and said he might be coming back last April and are you willing to join us after all but I need you in a more responsible job for the future as academy director".

 

The interview provoked a few questions for me. Does anyone remember fans protesting? I can remember there were rumours that SCW had head hunted a Dutch duo but cannot remember the fans being in uproar or any sort of backlash?

 

Also I guess one camp (Lowe, Cowe, Richards and Sir Clive) wanted to appoint Wotte and the others (Gordon, Wiseman and Hunt?) wanted Burley. If this is the case this was the 2nd time Lowe's first choice of manager had been vetoed by his fellow board members or did Rupert suddenly get cold feet and plump for Burley?

 

Finally I wonder why if Wotte had been Rupert's man in 2005 why he preferred to give JP the role this time around and offer Wotte the lesser job. Was it because in case of failure JP would be a lot more expendable?

 

The interview has been featured over the last two evenings in the Echo and is quite interesting as well as getting to the heart of Wotte's philosophy on the game itself. There is a final piece today.

[Weston Saint]

Couple of Wotte quotes from his Echo interviews

 

"I have signed a new contract until the end of the season with an option for next year"

 

"Jan was a mature and experienced Dutch coach and he took the decisions, played his game, took his decisions on the line. I was only there when he needed me. Sometimes he needed me and sometimes he didn't"

 

"After Jan stepped down I said to Rupert what is the alternative. What can I do. I am willing to do it because otherwise somebody else will do it and then my role at Southampton is more or less gone."

 

"If you get another Manager maybe not interested in my philosophy, the way I work, not interested in me at all then I get a very sad situation and probably I will lose my job as well. If not then I would have to do my academy job without the link to the first team - my role was to be the link between the academy and the first team"

 

"When Jan left I said OK I am willing to do it if we can change some things on the staff with Michael Svensson and Dean Gorre and I need to have a chat with the older experienced players. If you take over a situation like this it's not easy and it's never going to work if the players are against it"

 

"I was very pleased to have the older players support the changes. I proposed 4-4-2, a defensive midfielder instead of an attacking midfielder, we got along well and it picked up to how we play now"

[Dalek2003]

This is similar to the Hoddle/Sturrock episode. Part of the board bowing to fan* pressure and appointing Sturrock over Lowe's choice of Hoddle.

 

* In this case a small but vocal minority

[Saint_John]

FF,

There were various articles in the Echo around the time :-

eg. 23 Dec http://archive.dailyecho.co.uk/2005/12/23/97073.html

which has

"Lowe recommended the scenario to the club's board at a meeting yesterday.

The board also discussed Dutchman Mark Wotte and Dennis Wise, who had also been interviewed....

Lowe said: "I believe that we now have a management team that will deliver stability, results and exciting football.

"The number and quality of candidates that Clive and I have seen over the last two weeks have been outstanding, with George emerging as our first choice.".

 

 

The only article I can find from a "fan" was from Alan Ball on the 22 Dec

http://archive.dailyecho.co.uk/2005/12/22/97052.html

which says

"It's a real tall order for a foreign guy to come in and get it right straight away, especially when he is totally new to England.

"It's a hard call and I wouldn't recommend it, it wouldn't be my call.

"I would go for someone solid, someone who knows exactly what is going on.

"The club shouldn't be gambling at this moment in time."

 

 

 

The ONLY FANS protest I can remember was a few weeks LATER at the Ipswich game (middle Jan) with the "LOWE OUT" protests.

From my memory there were NO PROTESTS against any Manager or Head Coach, it was ALL against lowe.

 

This sounds like a case of the supporters of the dark lord trying to re-write history (again).

[up and away]

There was definitely a reaction at the time, but this has to be placed in context with them not actually having the job, just informed speculation. The main point voiced at the time on here "Who the fook are these people and Lowe etc". What the actual reaction if they had been employed would have been is a different matter. I have stated previously regarding Wotte quitting his job on the assumption the Saints position was his. Saints wanting to know if the contract was acceptable but only binding once both parties had signed.

 

Go back to that point in time just prior to hiring Wotte, Burley then changes his mind after talking to WSG and a decision has to be made. Given Burleys resume at the time and compare that to Wotte's with everything that involved (ccc experience, foreign etc), I would expect a 95% in favour of Burley from anyone involved with Saints, only Lowe appears to view this as being far more even at the time.

 

It's very early days for Wotte and only at the end of the season can we reflect meaningly upon what might have been, if we had signed Wotte instead of Burley.

[Saint_clark]

Utter rubbish. There were never any protests against the Wotte and Lok duo that was proposed.

F*cking spin spin spin.

[um pahars]

The Echo last night published part of an interview with Wotte who revealed that back in 2005 when Redknapp left he was actually offered a contract by Saints and as a result quit his job as Director of Football at Feyenoord. It says "when news of the probable appointment got out there was something of a backlash from the supporters and the board bowed to fans' calls and opted for a manager with British experience in the shape of george Burley".

 

Wotte says "I got an offer but they gave an offer to Burley as well..... the situation was grim and I think there were a lot of camps - some wanted me some wanted Burley. Suddenly I had a phone call to tell me they just appointed Burley. I knew there was another candidate but for me in Holland if you offer someone a contract you do it only when you know you want this person and you don't offer two people a contract. I was a little surprised but then when Rupert told me his motivation I told him OK this is the way it works in England. Rupert stayed in touch and said he might be coming back last April and are you willing to join us after all but I need you in a more responsible job for the future as academy director".

 

The interview provoked a few questions for me. Does anyone remember fans protesting? I can remember there were rumours that SCW had head hunted a Dutch duo but cannot remember the fans being in uproar or any sort of backlash?

 

Also I guess one camp (Lowe, Cowe, Richards and Sir Clive) wanted to appoint Wotte and the others (Gordon, Wiseman and Hunt?) wanted Burley. If this is the case this was the 2nd time Lowe's first choice of manager had been vetoed by his fellow board members or did Rupert suddenly get cold feet and plump for Burley?

 

Finally I wonder why if Wotte had been Rupert's man in 2005 why he preferred to give JP the role this time around and offer Wotte the lesser job. Was it because in case of failure JP would be a lot more expendable?

 

The interview has been featured over the last two evenings in the Echo and is quite interesting as well as getting to the heart of Wotte's philosophy on the game itself. There is a final piece today.

 

I also cannot remember there being a fans backlash against Wotte and Cees Lok at the time. I don't really think it got much air time before Burley was appointed. I think it surfaced a few days before Burley got the job, was discussed a bit on here, no one really knew much and then Burley popped up.

 

Who is attributed with the fans backlash because I think they're stretching it there somewhat???

 

I always thought Lok and Wotte were Woodward's choice, but Lowe and others went for Burley. As long as Wotte is in the job, I'll guess we'll never know!!!!

 

I think that maybe the reason Wotte got the Acadmey job is that perhaps Lowe viewed it as the more "important" role (Wotte calls it a more responsible role) as perhaps Lowe's view is that the Academy is where the team is nurtured, made and delivered to the manager.

 

It would certainly fit in with his philosophy of bringing youngsters through, but it also slightly concerning that the First team Manager is deemed less responsible than the Academy Director!!!!!! If this is indeed the case, then I think our priorities are all wrong!!!!

 

And of course with the mention of contact in April, although there is nothing regarding Poortvliet, it is further confirmation that the managerial change was always going to happen once Lowe got back in.

[ottery st mary]

It all goes to prove to me that JP had no chance. His hands were tied from day one.

The Director of Football ran the show in all areas and JP was left to produce a team from what was given to him via Rupert Lowe and Mark Wotte.

 

This drivel now being given through the press is a total sham and Wotte is still only a mouth piece luckily with the scope to use some of the real footballers left at the club.

 

The original decisions re the Coaching staff were always made by Rupert who always wanted to run the show. Whether it be Burley, JP or Wotte we will always have problems

with Rupert making major decisions.

Like Rupert I do not trust Wotte one little bit. Results no doubt shut me up but I still believe in Rupert and his Dutch group leaving the club one day soon.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

FF,

There were various articles in the Echo around the time :-

eg. 23 Dec http://archive.dailyecho.co.uk/2005/12/23/97073.html

which has

"Lowe recommended the scenario to the club's board at a meeting yesterday.

The board also discussed Dutchman Mark Wotte and Dennis Wise, who had also been interviewed....

Lowe said: "I believe that we now have a management team that will deliver stability, results and exciting football.

"The number and quality of candidates that Clive and I have seen over the last two weeks have been outstanding, with George emerging as our first choice.".

 

 

The only article I can find from a "fan" was from Alan Ball on the 22 Dec

http://archive.dailyecho.co.uk/2005/12/22/97052.html

which says

"It's a real tall order for a foreign guy to come in and get it right straight away, especially when he is totally new to England.

"It's a hard call and I wouldn't recommend it, it wouldn't be my call.

"I would go for someone solid, someone who knows exactly what is going on.

"The club shouldn't be gambling at this moment in time."

 

 

 

The ONLY FANS protest I can remember was a few weeks LATER at the Ipswich game (middle Jan) with the "LOWE OUT" protests.

From my memory there were NO PROTESTS against any Manager or Head Coach, it was ALL against lowe.

 

This sounds like a case of the supporters of the dark lord trying to re-write history (again).

 

Thanks for digging that out John. I have now just read the final interview in today's Echo and Wotte is quite critical of the stay away fans saying they have forfeited their rights to criticise. He also says we sold sold Best and Blackstock too cheaply and we would have been better keeping them rather than sign others. He is very outspoken in his support for the present Board saying they have given him 100% support. I don't know if it is online but it's worth a read and in L. Mac's column, also in today's paper, the ex-manager has words of praise for Wotte. Did not think I would see that.

[Saint_clark]

Thanks for digging that out John. I have now just read the final interview in today's Echo and Wotte is quite critical of the stay away fans saying they have forfeited their rights to criticise. He also says we sold sold Best and Blackstock too cheaply and we would have been better keeping them rather than sign others. He is very outspoken in his support for the present Board saying they have given him 100% support. I don't know if it is online but it's worth a read and in L. Mac's column, also in today's paper, the ex-manager has words of praise for Wotte. Did not think I would see that.

 

But he's been criticising those who went on the march as well

Best and Blackstock both wanted to leave, once again he's talking about stuff when he doesn't know the full facts.

[um pahars]

Thanks for digging that out John. I have now just read the final interview in today's Echo and Wotte is quite critical of the stay away fans saying they have forfeited their rights to criticise. He also says we sold sold Best and Blackstock too cheaply and we would have been better keeping them rather than sign others. He is very outspoken in his support for the present Board saying they have given him 100% support. I don't know if it is online but it's worth a read and in L. Mac's column, also in today's paper, the ex-manager has words of praise for Wotte. Did not think I would see that.

 

He really would be better advised to steer clear of this sort of stuff and stick to the football. It wasn't long ago he was criticising those who were still going!!!

 

As for Best and Blackstock, well he needs to do some research as Best exercised his right to freedom of contract and the fee was decided by tribunal!!!!!!!!!!

[up and away]

Originally Posted by Fitzhugh Fella

Thanks for digging that out John. I have now just read the final interview in today's Echo and Wotte is quite critical of the stay away fans saying they have forfeited their rights to criticise. He also says we sold sold Best and Blackstock too cheaply and we would have been better keeping them rather than sign others. He is very outspoken in his support for the present Board saying they have given him 100% support. I don't know if it is online but it's worth a read and in L. Mac's column, also in today's paper, the ex-manager has words of praise for Wotte. Did not think I would see that.

But he's been criticising those who went on the march as well

Best and Blackstock both wanted to leave, once again he's talking about stuff when he doesn't know the full facts.

 

I wonder if that banner across the front of the march had anything to do with it? In case you have forgotten

 

WOTTA NOTTA GOTTA CLUE

 

As far as Best and Blackstock were concerned, they only wanted to leave when the position here did not have any real opportunity. As with Cranie and Mills, if someone had sorted this out properly before it got too late, they more than likely would have stayed. You only have to look at a very similar position with McGoldrick looking to get away previously, now as happy as Larry. Someone does not know the facts, but it aint Wotte.

[Saint_clark]

I wonder if that banner across the front of the march had anything to do with it? In case you have forgotten

 

WOTTA NOTTA GOTTA CLUE

 

As far as Best and Blackstock were concerned, they only wanted to leave when the position here did not have any real opportunity. As with Cranie and Mills, if someone had sorted this out properly before it got too late, they more than likely would have stayed. You only have to look at a very similar position with McGoldrick looking to get away previously, now as happy as Larry. Someone does not know the facts, but it aint Wotte.

 

That's fair enough, but he cannot criticise for protesting and then mock those who boycott for giving up their right to protest.

Best WAS playing, in case you've forgotten. He left because he didn't have the balls to try and make up for his mistakes in the play-off semi-final. Blackstock requested a transfer because he wouldn't have been in the first team week in, week out. Which considering we had Rasiak and Jones at the time wasn't unreasonable on Burleys part.

Mills left because of Wigley at Man City, and Cranie is sh*t anyway.

[VectisSaint]

Have no recollection of any fans backlash against Wotte before, only vaguely remember him being mentioned as being wanted by Woodward at the time. Then out of the blue along comes Burley. Given the CVs of these two I'm hardly surprised that Lowe went for Burley, I'm equally surprised that if Wotte was offered the job and this was then withdrawn that he didn't tell Rupert later to stuff his offer, appalling treatment.

 

Nevertheless what it does show is that CVs can be worthless. Maybe Woodward actually had more vision than Lowe (not much of a shock there), as we found out with Burley and his appalling tenure at Saints, buoyed only by the time we were able to employ Snodin as assistant). It would be interesting to consider where we might be now if Woodward's view had prevailed. Of course we will never know, and its probably also still to early to judge Wotte based on 3 vistories, but he has certainly turned things round faster than Burley ever did.

 

My one big criticism of Wotte remains that he should keep his mouth shut about non-football matters. As a case in point why was the club statement about BWP and Mcg made by Wotte? This should come from one of the Chairmen, not the head Coach. His continued attacks agianst the supporters is also bad form. If he sticks to football and gets results, supporters will respect him.

[SW11_Saint]

I also cannot remember there being a fans backlash against Wotte and Cees Lok at the time. I don't really think it got much air time before Burley was appointed. I think it surfaced a few days before Burley got the job, was discussed a bit on here, no one really knew much and then Burley popped up.

 

Who is attributed with the fans backlash because I think they're stretching it there somewhat???

 

I always thought Lok and Wotte were Woodward's choice, but Lowe and others went for Burley. As long as Wotte is in the job, I'll guess we'll never know!!!!

 

I think that maybe the reason Wotte got the Acadmey job is that perhaps Lowe viewed it as the more "important" role (Wotte calls it a more responsible role) as perhaps Lowe's view is that the Academy is where the team is nurtured, made and delivered to the manager.

 

It would certainly fit in with his philosophy of bringing youngsters through, but it also slightly concerning that the First team Manager is deemed less responsible than the Academy Director!!!!!! If this is indeed the case, then I think our priorities are all wrong!!!!

 

And of course with the mention of contact in April, although there is nothing regarding Poortvliet, it is further confirmation that the managerial change was always going to happen once Lowe got back in.

I remember some discussion on the boards, but nothing more than that - certainly nothing you could describe as a "fan backlash"?!! In fairness, from the rumours I had heard at the time I thought they were going to appoint the Dutchies, and I remember being elated that they'd instead gone for Burley (who was just off the back of his incredible start with Hearts).

 

Does seem incredibly bad form by our board "making offers" to both candidates - surely you decide who you want, act very swiftly, and if that doesn't pan out you immediately go for your #2 choice? (as Wotte correctly points out). Perhaps this hints at Lowe overstepping the mark and 'making promises' he wasn't able to follow through on due to a split boardroom. Although he also hints that Lowe was complicit in the Burley decision "Rupert told me his motivation...".

 

Some of the remarks on Lowe do worry me too - although not sure why, we should know him by now! - for instance, seeing the Acadaemy Director role as "more responsible" (presumably than Team manager?). I'm not disputing that the production of young players is important, but at any football club THE most important person has to be the Team Manager. That Lowe seemingly doesn't understand this is no real surprise, but still very worrying. Wonder if Sir Alex has to go report into the United Academy Director each week...??!?

[St Landrew]

...and in L. Mac's column, also in today's paper [Echo], the ex-manager has words of praise for Wotte. Did not think I would see that.

 

Really FF..? Lawrie might have professional grievances with RL, but if a person is doing well, I've never found him too blinkered to acknowledge it.

[L1Minus10]

This thread will turn into another p!ssing contest... I betcha

[aintforever]

There was never any fans backlash, I remember the Wotte story broke on the BBC and I think Burley was confirmed within a day. There wasn't even a game played between the two so how could there be a backlash?

[OldNick]

I dont think there was a backlash but I think there was degree of gnashing of teeth.I myself dint believe it was going to happen but when it became more in the media i was alarmed.

Of course there would have been much comment on the forums and perhaps it was so frowned upon the club/board took notice. I suspect he is closer to the thoughts of the club than ANYBODY on here and so why do we not believe it.The club would be hearing comments from all sides at that time , not only on the forums.

[um pahars]

As far as Best and Blackstock were concerned, they only wanted to leave when the position here did not have any real opportunity. As with Cranie and Mills, if someone had sorted this out properly before it got too late, they more than likely would have stayed. You only have to look at a very similar position with McGoldrick looking to get away previously, now as happy as Larry. Someone does not know the facts, but it aint Wotte.

 

Wotte says:

 

"In the past they let go two or three much better but cheaper strikers like Leon Best and Dexter Blackstock, who would fit perfectly in this group of players.

 

Both were sold much too cheap".

 

With regards to Best we had no say in the fee as it was decided by a tribunal, so he's got his facts wrong there.

 

It's also worth mentioning that one of ther players who came in to give him competition was Rasiak, brought in by Burley under Lowe, Madsen brought in by Burley and of course earlier that season, Redknapp had gone for Fuller.

[NickG]

I remember a fair bit of negative reporting and discussion on radio etc but it all happened too quickly for much complaint.

[Saint_clark]

Wotte says:

 

"In the past they let go two or three much better but cheaper strikers like Leon Best and Dexter Blackstock, who would fit perfectly in this group of players.

 

Both were sold much too cheap".

 

With regards to Best we had no say in the fee as it was decided by a tribunal, so he's got his facts wrong there.

 

It's also worth mentioning that one of ther players who came in to give him competition was Rasiak, brought in by Burley under Lowe, Madsen brought in by Burley and of course earlier that season, Redknapp had gone for Fuller.

 

Precisely.

When Blackstock requested a transfer we had Rasiak, Jones, Fuller, and BWP. Dexter wanted to be playing week in week out, which we couldn't give him.

[ottery st mary]

I dont think there was a backlash but I think there was degree of gnashing of teeth.I myself dint believe it was going to happen but when it became more in the media i was alarmed.

Of course there would have been much comment on the forums and perhaps it was so frowned upon the club/board took notice. I suspect he is closer to the thoughts of the club than ANYBODY on here and so why do we not believe it.The club would be hearing comments from all sides at that time , not only on the forums.

 

Closer to thoughts of the club...surely you mean Rupert?

[OldNick]

My one big criticism of Wotte remains that he should keep his mouth shut about non-football matters. As a case in point why was the club statement about BWP and Mcg made by Wotte? This should come from one of the Chairmen, not the head Coach. His continued attacks agianst the supporters is also bad form. If he sticks to football and gets results, supporters will respect him.

Why should he? Just because he says what you dont like. He will obviously be more pro the current regime as they appointed him. Get over it, he will tow the club line no different to any other manager.

Many of the campaigners believe they are doing it for the best, but that doesnt mean they are right.Unless they know the full facts how can they make a correct judgement?

I respect the marchers as they did it for the right reasons and did it with dignity and reacted in the correct way when they got into the ground.The 2nd march they lost the moral high ground as soon as they sat in the road and also some had the Wotte out banners.

[saintjay77]

I would say there was a reaction on the forum but it wasnt anything like a backlash. Most of it I think was more down to wrighting off certian peoples choices before it was thought about them being any good or not. Remember Lowe doesnt come up with good ideas, he forces his changes and if any of them work its out in spite of him rather than because of him

 

So there was certainly no backlash to Wotte or anyone else and like others have said we didnt know about them until not long before GB got in so no time to have a pop either. Maybe someone in the board room feared a backlash should they appoint Lowe or SCW's choice and that info got back to Wotte?

 

Lowe has wanted to build the team from the roots up for a long time but the manager choices havnt been ones that lend to that phylosophy so its never worked and we have lost the likes of Best and Blackstock. Maybe thats what Wotte was getting at? Im just guessing but he seems like the 1st manager (ignoring JP) that really buys into building a club from the kids up and as such we may see some of the more tallented/potentialed kids stick around for there chance in the 1st team. Other managers have definitely limited the chances of many of them and it seems Rupes has had to try and get the various managers to look at the kids. I still think he kept telling Redcrap that he would like him to look towards the acadmy more than looking for journymen loans and Redcrap threw his toys out of the pram with that cup game by sending the kids out with no real instruction, just so he could say I told you so!

 

Wotte does seem to be more along the lines of Strachan with his direct comments. baring translation he lets everyone know where he stands and where he wants to be - the funny comments. Not everyone will like it but if he gets results to go along with the arogance then I doubt it will leave too many non believers.

 

Time will tell.

[um pahars]

Some of the remarks on Lowe do worry me too - although not sure why, we should know him by now! - for instance, seeing the Acadaemy Director role as "more responsible" (presumably than Team manager?). I'm not disputing that the production of young players is important, but at any football club THE most important person has to be the Team Manager. That Lowe seemingly doesn't understand this is no real surprise, but still very worrying. Wonder if Sir Alex has to go report into the United Academy Director each week...??!?

 

As I said above, like you I found that very disconcerting.

 

I agree the Academy is a vital part of the Club, both in terms of producing players to play or even to earn money from. Selling our best talent is a fact of life for us given our current position.

 

But a more responsible position?????

 

Very worrying. The most important person at the Club should be the first team Manager, end of.

[OldNick]

Closer to thoughts of the club...surely you mean Rupert?

That is probably correct. To me he is the face of the current board/club and so is pulling the strings.I have no arguement with you about that.

[Saint_clark]

Why should he? Just because he says what you dont like. He will obviously be more pro the current regime as they appointed him. Get over it, he will tow the club line no different to any other manager.

Many of the campaigners believe they are doing it for the best, but that doesnt mean they are right.Unless they know the full facts how can they make a correct judgement?

I respect the marchers as they did it for the right reasons and did it with dignity and reacted in the correct way when they got into the ground.The 2nd march they lost the moral high ground as soon as they sat in the road and also some had the Wotte out banners.

 

Erm.....what?

The whole point of a protest is to raise awareness and cause disruption. Sitting in the road would have kept the road closed for longer.

[ottery st mary]

That is probably correct. To me he is the face of the current board/club and so is pulling the strings.I have no arguement with you about that.

 

Stick with me nick and you might learn and live a little.:cool:

[OldNick]

Wotte says:

 

"In the past they let go two or three much better but cheaper strikers like Leon Best and Dexter Blackstock, who would fit perfectly in this group of players.

 

Both were sold much too cheap".

 

With regards to Best we had no say in the fee as it was decided by a tribunal, so he's got his facts wrong there.

 

It's also worth mentioning that one of ther players who came in to give him competition was Rasiak, brought in by Burley under Lowe, Madsen brought in by Burley and of course earlier that season, Redknapp had gone for Fuller.

But come on if you are saying Best wasnt given a chance under Lowe and so he made the mistake. Best played in the PL at Everton when we we had an injury crisis. I think he was 16 or 17 are you saying Gb should have played him instead of buying Rasiak or loaning Madsen??? Gb should have made them part of the squad and brought them both through gradually but if Best had played many more games I doubt we would have made the play offs.

Gb obviously wanted to play/sign more experienced players and so froze him out.

[Badger]

As I recall there was some inrigue as to the possibility of the two Dutch coaches,but no protests or 'backlash'.

 

After relegation,the 'Arry saga,and of course the SCW/Simon Clifford circus hitting town, most Saints fans were numbed to whatever could come next.Afterall,anything was possible on Planet Rupert.

 

The only feature or article at the time to question the wisdom of the appointment was that written by,attributed to Alan Ball.Shortly after GB's appointment Wotte was quoted as saying AB's article had been instrumental in "costing" him the job.Perhaps Wotte is now a little too cautious to speak ill of Alan Ball in fear of really upsetting the Saints faithful.

 

This bit intrigues me also :

 

Finally I wonder why if Wotte had been Rupert's man in 2005 why he preferred to give JP the role this time around and offer Wotte the lesser job. Was it because in case of failure JP would be a lot more expendable?

 

[saintjay77]

As I said above, like you I found that very disconcerting.

 

I agree the Academy is a vital part of the Club, both in terms of producing players to play or even to earn money from. Selling our best talent is a fact of life for us given our current position.

 

But a more responsible position?????

 

Very worrying. The most important person at the Club should be the first team Manager, end of.

 

I can see what you mean aas if it is read how it is written its easy to think he meant more responsable than the manager, but the way I read it was Rupes see's the role as of great importance to the whole club so needs someone there that will treat it with that degree of importance as this will be the bread and butter to the club. I dont think it undermines the manager who is still the person that runs the 1st team and decideds on who to use in that 1st team.

 

Whats the point in trying to build an acadamy that will feed our 1st team and provide much needed cashflow every now and then and just letting anyone who nows how to tie a pair of boots run it?

[OldNick]

Erm.....what?

The whole point of a protest is to raise awareness and cause disruption. Sitting in the road would have kept the road closed for longer.

It may cause awareness but alos lose any sympathy they had with people not connected to the club.If you were at the airport waiting to fly off when those anti flying protesters ran onto the runway at Stanstead would you A) think , Oh good Im delayed thank you to those protesters i must support them

b) those ########s have messed up my day, they get what they deserve and they are a bit of a rabble

[ottery st mary]

IMHO JP was a stooge to allow Rupert to run the total show and Wotte would be his link

to controlling JP..Good luck to Wotte because the team needs to stay in the CCC.

I believe JP was stitched with his hands severely tied. (not that he is my choice of coach) Still have no faith in Wotte as a coach or Rupert to leave well alone but I really wish Rupert and his muppets would desist from blaming the fans and let the football do the talking.

 

Lowe, Wilde and Wotte out.

[um pahars]

But come on if you are saying Best wasnt given a chance under Lowe and so he made the mistake. Best played in the PL at Everton when we we had an injury crisis. I think he was 16 or 17 are you saying Gb should have played him instead of buying Rasiak or loaning Madsen??? Gb should have made them part of the squad and brought them both through gradually but if Best had played many more games I doubt we would have made the play offs.

Gb obviously wanted to play/sign more experienced players and so froze him out.

 

I'm saying that with regards Best he got his facts wrong as the fee was decided by a tribunal.

 

With regards the general gist of who was cramping Best and Blackstock's progress then that's football for you.

 

Under Lowe we brought in Fuller, Madsen & Rasiak (you could even include Jones if you want) and then we went further and brought in BWP & Saga.

 

These things happen, youngsters don't break into the first team and move on. Some progress, others don't, so to suggest the previous regimes were making mistakes is a bit cheap as it happens all the time, under every regime.

 

We really should be hanging Lowe out to dry for letting Scott McDonald go and Askham for letting Wise go etc etc etc.

Edited 7 March, 2009 by um pahars
Adding a wink, just in case the more challenged on here think we really should be going after Lowe & Askham!!!

[eelpie]

Were there not renewed rumours of Hoddle returning then? Hence fans disquiet?

[OldNick]

I'm saying that with regards Best he got his facts wrong as the fee was decided by a tribunal.

 

With regards the general gist of who was cramping Best and Blackstock's progress then that's football for you.

 

Under Lowe we brought in Fuller, Madsen & Rasiak (you could even include Jones if you want) and then we went further and brought in BWP & Saga.

 

These things happen, youngsters don't break into the first team and move on. Some progress, others don't, so to suggest the previous regimes were making mistakes is a bit cheap as it happens all the time, under every regime.

 

We really should be hanging Lowe out to dry for letting Scott McDonald go and Askham for letting Wise go etc etc etc.

i wont look it up as you are always spot on with your facts regarding timescales etc but i was surprised that Madsen was brought in under RL.

I would like Blackstock back, although Best may one day be ok but i dont like his attitude.

The rest is true, although we did let Blackstock go too cheaply.

[OldNick]

Stick with me nick and you might learn and live a little.:cool:

I think I'll pass OSM thanks

[um pahars]

i wont look it up as you are always spot on with your facts regarding timescales etc but i was surprised that Madsen was brought in under RL.

I would like Blackstock back, although Best may one day be ok but i dont like his attitude.

The rest is true, although we did let Blackstock go too cheaply.

 

Madsen came in in the January transfer window of our first season down.

 

Blackstock left at the end of that season having seen Fuller bought the previous summer, Madsen & Rasiak came in half way through that season and Kenwyne Jones featuring more and more.

 

And then of course BWP came in just before Blackstock upped and left.

 

Lowe was at the helm when Blackstock was log jammed and I thought it was cheap when Lowe made this claim a while back and I think it's just as cheap coming from Wotte.

 

As for the fee, well it was undisclosed, but I'm not sure that the suspected £500,000+ was too cheap for someone who we obviously didn't rate and only another CCC club were interested in.

[OldNick]

Madsen came in in the January transfer window of our first season down.

 

Blackstock left at the end of that season having seen Fuller bought the previous summer, Madsen & Rasiak came in half way through that season and Kenwyne Jones featuring more and more.

 

And then of course BWP came in just before Blackstock upped and left.

 

Lowe was at the helm when Blackstock was log jammed and I thought it was cheap when Lowe made this claim a while back and I think it's just as cheap coming from Wotte.

 

As for the fee, well it was undisclosed, but I'm not sure that the suspected £500,000+ was too cheap for someone who we obviously didn't rate and only another CCC club were interested in.

Thanks again UM. If we got 500k for him at that stage it was ok, but i thought it was 200k but i dont expect you to search again.

can you recall the date about when RL left ?

[um pahars]

Thanks again UM. If we got 500k for him at that stage it was ok, but i thought it was 200k but i dont expect you to search again.

can you recall the date about when RL left ?

 

June 2009 hopefully.

 

Last time end of June 2006.

[OldNick]

June 2009 hopefully.

 

Last time end of June 2006.

Bloody hell that was quick...I bet all the girls say that.

thanks again Ump. The first season down was over when he left then? My memory is going.

[Saint_clark]

Thanks again UM. If we got 500k for him at that stage it was ok, but i thought it was 200k but i dont expect you to search again.

can you recall the date about when RL left ?

 

I'm sure Burley said that we had high sell-on clauses as well.

[CanadaSaint]

I think this revisionist history is inevitable as Rupert attempts to cleanse his past and salvage some semblance of a reputation - in football and in the business community.

 

As Um said, "He (Wotte) really would be better advised to steer clear of this sort of stuff and stick to the football."

 

But I suspect that Rupert sees a successful Wotte as the key to salvaging his reputation, so he'll use him mercilessly.

[ottery st mary]

I think I'll pass OSM thanks

 

I knew you would never leave Lord Rupert or Lord Marland, whatever was I thinking.

[OldNick]

I knew you would never leave Lord Rupert or Lord Marland, whatever was I thinking.

Why should i drop a few social classes OSM?

[ottery st mary]

Why should i drop a few social classes OSM?

 

You are right for a change.

Bring back JP and Woggy.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

Really FF..? Lawrie might have professional grievances with RL, but if a person is doing well, I've never found him too blinkered to acknowledge it.

 

 

I don't think I have ever read before a comment by L Mac that could even vaguely be construed to be pro Lowe. Interested if you could find one, Andy. Hence my raised eyebrow today.

[sadoldgit]

My recollection is that when news of the Dutch duo leaked out there was a lot of fuss about the suspected appointment. Whilst all that was kicking off Burley was a late entrant to the race for the job and was given it on Woodward's say so.

 

Still what ever the truth of the matter, Lowe is not here any more and Wotte is.

[hughieslastminutegoal]

Why should he? Just because he says what you dont like. He will obviously be more pro the current regime as they appointed him. Get over it, he will tow the club line no different to any other manager.

Many of the campaigners believe they are doing it for the best, but that doesnt mean they are right.Unless they know the full facts how can they make a correct judgement?

I respect the marchers as they did it for the right reasons and did it with dignity and reacted in the correct way when they got into the ground.The 2nd march they lost the moral high ground as soon as they sat in the road and also some had the Wotte out banners.

 

There is a difference between toeing the club line and going out of your way to criticise fans for not jumping up and down to praise Lowe as soon as we get a win.

 

I supported Wotte's right to say whatever he thought necessary to change players' losing mentality, get some group cohesion going, even if that meant getting players a bit angry about fan reactions, but he's been here 5 minutes and fans have experienced Lowe for over a decade. Telling us what our reactions should be towards Lowe is something that at this juncture he should keep his mouth shut about, and get on with keeping the players focussed on putting in 100%.