Gemmel Posted 30 March, 2009 Share Posted 30 March, 2009 I've just had a call from someone who was listening to Radio Hampshire, who reckons they've just said we are being taken over!! Anybody hear the same or did they mishear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludwig Posted 30 March, 2009 Share Posted 30 March, 2009 not this again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponty Posted 30 March, 2009 Share Posted 30 March, 2009 It's not the 1st until Wednesday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 30 March, 2009 Share Posted 30 March, 2009 I've just had a call from someone who was listening to Radio Hampshire, who reckons they've just said we are being taken over!! Anybody hear the same or did they mishear There has been a lot of grapevine gossip over the last 72 hours and perhaps IF it is true is why we never went into administration last week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 30 March, 2009 Share Posted 30 March, 2009 Gemmel, it's not like you to go on a wind-up. ....However, I shall assume that is all this is until it is reported officially in 500 different sources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 30 March, 2009 Author Share Posted 30 March, 2009 It's not the 1st until Wednesday. Ive emailed them. Sister who isn't a football fan was listening and phoned me saying that was what they said. Happy to accept that she mis heard, (I won't mention the bit about administration) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint In Exile Posted 30 March, 2009 Share Posted 30 March, 2009 Let's hope it's not Paul Allen!!! http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/03/30/charter_communications_chapter_11/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 30 March, 2009 Author Share Posted 30 March, 2009 They are talking about the plc selling the club and then putting SLH into administration. I don't know the context as to whether its a rumour or they are talking about something they know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the boy from saints Posted 30 March, 2009 Share Posted 30 March, 2009 There was talk about us going into administration - and something about the PLC taking the hit leaving the club OK...I don't quite understand the difference between the club and Soton Leisure Holdings. Could this happen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 30 March, 2009 Share Posted 30 March, 2009 West Ham have a convoluted structure and there is lots of talk about how the Icaland issue affects them and how the PLC could be in Admin but not the club. Meanwhile (yawn) the situation is never as simple as it seems. A lot of people are working together on a lot of different solutions. One guess though is that this would not be discussed publicly unless the plan was pretty much finished, certainly could not be discussed in public if it was an option Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottery st mary Posted 30 March, 2009 Share Posted 30 March, 2009 We are being taken over but Charlton need to win a few more games first to achieve this move up the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottery st mary Posted 30 March, 2009 Share Posted 30 March, 2009 Sorry that is overtaking...mixed up again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 30 March, 2009 Author Share Posted 30 March, 2009 Ok..... Mark Dennis is saying that he has been told by a massive source (His words) That SLH is going to sell Southampton Football Club and then SLH will go into administration and that we would avoid any points penalty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 30 March, 2009 Share Posted 30 March, 2009 Ok..... Mark Dennis is saying that he has been told by a massive source (His words) That SLH is going to sell Southampton Football Club and then SLH will go into administration and that we would avoid any points penalty Go on i bet it is being sold to Lowe and Wilde Holdings Ltd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the boy from saints Posted 30 March, 2009 Share Posted 30 March, 2009 Mark Dennis said that the club only just managed to pay the wages this month and his very reliable source gave him the info on the PLC going into admin meaning the club wouldn't have to take the 10 point penalty. Sounds a bit risky to me in that the FA might take further points off us for trying it on!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonRichards Posted 30 March, 2009 Share Posted 30 March, 2009 They are talking about the plc selling the club and then putting SLH into administration. I don't know the context as to whether its a rumour or they are talking about something they know Mark Dennis mentioned that he heard from "someone very well connected with the club" That SFC only just about payed the staffs wages last week, and that the PLC will go into admin next week and not the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sambosa75 Posted 30 March, 2009 Share Posted 30 March, 2009 Ok..... Mark Dennis is saying that he has been told by a massive source (His words) That SLH is going to sell Southampton Football Club and then SLH will go into administration and that we would avoid any points penalty Could the massive source be that fella that Match of the Day kept filming doing a stupid dance whenever we scored back in the Premier League years? He was particularly massive... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charliemiller Posted 30 March, 2009 Share Posted 30 March, 2009 Mark Dennis said that the club only just managed to pay the wages this month and his very reliable source gave him the info on the PLC going into admin meaning the club wouldn't have to take the 10 point penalty. Sounds a bit risky to me in that the FA might take further points off us for trying it on!? Bit risky yes and highly illegal under corporate law. You cant dispose of key assets then declare a CVA , the administrator would just claim the asset back as it was disposed within 12 months of the adminstration. Good idea though !! But wont work sadly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IFHP Posted 30 March, 2009 Share Posted 30 March, 2009 I've just had a call from someone who was listening to Radio Hampshire, who reckons they've just said we are being taken over!! Anybody hear the same or did they mishear My cat was told this by the cat over the road, who was told by the dog who is friends of the dog belonging to the person who's taken Saints over. I'm so excited that it looks like this time its finally going to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voteforpedro Posted 30 March, 2009 Share Posted 30 March, 2009 Bit risky yes and highly illegal under corporate law. You cant dispose of key assets then declare a CVA , the administrator would just claim the asset back as it was disposed within 12 months of the adminstration. Good idea though !! But wont work sadly. Even if they claimed they were trying and avoid admin? Sorry, I dont have a clue about this sort of thing, but could they not say that by selling assets they were doing all they could not to enter administration? E.g. we sold the likes of Andrew Davies and others within the last twelve months to try and avoid admin, but the administrators wouldn't claim him back. Again, sorry if its a stupid question, I just dont really understand the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Marco Posted 30 March, 2009 Share Posted 30 March, 2009 If you were a bank manager and some guy comes to you like this Bank manager - Hi Mr Smith, yes we have requested you to come in and have a chat. We have looked at your account for sometime. We have become quite worried by your level of spending and wonder how you will pay us back? The figures show your quite deep in the red Mr Smith. Your income no longer covers the minimum payments required. What do you think? Mr Smith - You have made a mistake Mr Bank Manager Bank Manager - I assure you we haven't Mr Smith, those figures are the figures and you owe us a lot of money, money we are worried you will never pay back.... Mr Smith - No not a mistake with the numbers, they are correct. Its just im not Mr Smith..... Bank Manager - But these are your signatures right and these are your details? Mr Smith - They were my old details Bank manager - How do you mean? Mr Smith - We'll im no longer Mr Smith.....im now Mr Jim Bob. Bank Manager - ............... Mr Jim Bob - Any chance of a loan? If only it were that simple hey. If the club move the debt to a new company of which they are apart of i have no doubt the club will get a points penalty. On top of that the company probably can't do that without the bank/investers/shareholders agreeing to it. If they did that they would probably end up in jail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 30 March, 2009 Share Posted 30 March, 2009 Sounds well dodgy to me, we will definitely be subject to investigation if it happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 30 March, 2009 Share Posted 30 March, 2009 This is where Jonah comes in handy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clapham Saint Posted 30 March, 2009 Share Posted 30 March, 2009 Bit risky yes and highly illegal under corporate law. You cant dispose of key assets then declare a CVA , the administrator would just claim the asset back as it was disposed within 12 months of the adminstration. Good idea though !! But wont work sadly. ?? I hope you're not a lawyer. 1) An Administrator could seek remedy against either the purchaser or the Directors if the assets were sold at an undervalue unsder section 238 of the insolvency act. IF THEY WERE SOLD AT UNDERVALUE being key. There is nothing wrong with selling assets if you get fair value for them. 2) Who has mentioned CVA? A Creditors Voluntary Arrangement is a completely different process from and Administration where the Directors would remain in charge and be overseen by a Supervisor. HTH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 30 March, 2009 Share Posted 30 March, 2009 ?? I hope you're not a lawyer. 1) An Administrator could seek remedy against either the purchaser or the Directors if the assets were sold at an undervalue unsder section 238 of the insolvency act. IF THEY WERE SOLD AT UNDERVALUE being key. There is nothing wrong with selling assets if you get fair value for them. 2) Who has mentioned CVA? A Creditors Voluntary Arrangement is a completely different process from and Administration where the Directors would remain in charge and be overseen by a Supervisor. HTH Can it be done via a Pre-pack? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 30 March, 2009 Share Posted 30 March, 2009 How long until the next thread....... 'So this was Lowe's plan to stay in charge all along' *Sigh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 30 March, 2009 Author Share Posted 30 March, 2009 ?? I hope you're not a lawyer. 1) An Administrator could seek remedy against either the purchaser or the Directors if the assets were sold at an undervalue unsder section 238 of the insolvency act. IF THEY WERE SOLD AT UNDERVALUE being key. There is nothing wrong with selling assets if you get fair value for them. HTH Which would be our market cap right? Currently 3 million quid, so very cheap This is starting to look quite interesting. I'm sure trousers will be on it in the morning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 30 March, 2009 Share Posted 30 March, 2009 Which would be our market cap right? Currently 3 million quid, so very cheap This is starting to look quite interesting. I'm sure trousers will be on it in the morning The morning? To be honest I'm surprised he isn't here already! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Fan CaM Posted 30 March, 2009 Share Posted 30 March, 2009 I can confirm that I heard Mark Dennis also on RH state that he has heard from a "massive" source at the club that we struggled to pay wages this week and that administration was imminent for the SLH. It seems that the idea is to keep SFC Ltd afloat, however there were no details on how this would be achieved. I am sure he said that Lowe and Wilde were aiming at staying at the club, although how they intend achieving THAT I really do not understand as they will no longer be Directors or indeed shareholders UNLESS some dodgy deal has been done behind the scenes. I can state with utmost certainty that if that is the case, I will definately NOT be renewing my ST next season even if we stay up. If Lowe thinks he can secure another disastrous term in office on the back of my money, he can think again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Saint Posted 30 March, 2009 Share Posted 30 March, 2009 As has been stated, if the Football Club was sold by SLH for a fair value that money is banked by the plc and if they go into Administration the Administrator has use of the money to run SLH and pay off creditors as they fall due. If he considers SLH is not a going concern (that will include the stadium) he will try to sell off more parts or liquidate the company. That is my unqualified view Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 30 March, 2009 Share Posted 30 March, 2009 So, if this happens, which owns the asset of the stadium ?? Is it the clubs asset or SLH's, surely the players and stadium are worth more than 3 mil ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clapham Saint Posted 30 March, 2009 Share Posted 30 March, 2009 Can it be done via a Pre-pack? In a pre-pack the Company goes into administration before the assets are sold (sometimes just 5 minuites before). I'm not going to claim to be an expert on the F.A. rules but in this situation I suspect that we would incur the 10 point penalty and possibly the additional 17 points if purchaser didn't also choose to pay off the footballing debts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charliemiller Posted 30 March, 2009 Share Posted 30 March, 2009 ?? I hope you're not a lawyer. 1) An Administrator could seek remedy against either the purchaser or the Directors if the assets were sold at an undervalue unsder section 238 of the insolvency act. IF THEY WERE SOLD AT UNDERVALUE being key. There is nothing wrong with selling assets if you get fair value for them. 2) Who has mentioned CVA? A Creditors Voluntary Arrangement is a completely different process from and Administration where the Directors would remain in charge and be overseen by a Supervisor. HTH What is undervalue ???? the football club is the PLC s only revenue stream . If they sold it for any less than the share value that would be deemed as undervalue , and if they can sell it for the share pricethen you dont con the share holders. I think it would lead to very deep questioning . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 30 March, 2009 Share Posted 30 March, 2009 So SFC could be sold and rent the stadium of SLH who would be in administration, then SLH would sell St Marys to the highest bidder to pay of the creditors. So in theory as St Marys is only of any use to SFC the value would not be very high and SFC could buy it back for a song and be mortgage free? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Saint Posted 30 March, 2009 Share Posted 30 March, 2009 Also IF this was as M Dennis says, whoever is going to buy the football club will not be buying shares. If the plc then goes into Administration and then Liquidation ALL shareholders will have valuless shares including Lowe, Wilde, Crouch etc. They will have lost everything. Again my view Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charliemiller Posted 30 March, 2009 Share Posted 30 March, 2009 Can it be done via a Pre-pack? erm yes but only by the existing directors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 30 March, 2009 Author Share Posted 30 March, 2009 So SFC could be sold and rent the stadium of SLH who would be in administration, then SLH would sell St Marys to the highest bidder to pay of the creditors. So in theory as St Marys is only of any use to SFC the value would not be very high and SFC could buy it back for a song and be mortgage free? No, technically we dont own St Marys. Aviva can decide what they want to do with it and block the administrators from selling it (Courtesy of clapham saint earlier today). We currently owe them 23 million , they are not going to walk away from that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 30 March, 2009 Share Posted 30 March, 2009 I would be interested to know who owns the training ground, stadium etc. I'm guessing it would be the PLC since we would still be in debt to the bank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 30 March, 2009 Share Posted 30 March, 2009 (edited) No, technically we dont own St Marys. Aviva can decide what they want to do with it and block the administrators from selling it (Courtesy of clapham saint earlier today). We currently owe them 23 million , they are not going to walk away from that. But if SFC folds how do they expect to get £23m for SMS? Edited 30 March, 2009 by aintforever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Right sider Posted 30 March, 2009 Share Posted 30 March, 2009 So we could be a football club minus SLH which means we don't own SMS. Then we could be held to ransom over the lease if, indeed, it remains a football stadium? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clapham Saint Posted 30 March, 2009 Share Posted 30 March, 2009 Which would be our market cap right? Currently 3 million quid, so very cheap This is starting to look quite interesting. I'm sure trousers will be on it in the morning Not necessarily. The phrase "Something is worth what a purchaser will pay for it" applies. In the case of a listed company the market capitalisation would usually give a good indication, however a fair market capitalisation depends upon a "perfect market" for the shares (i.e. they can be bought and sold easily and are traded regularly as well as all information being out in the open). My understanding is that there are very few SLH shares in ready circulation to be traded regularly. In addition the actual state of the company's finances isn't known. It could be argued that the current market cap isn't a fair reflection of the current value of the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 30 March, 2009 Share Posted 30 March, 2009 Also IF this was as M Dennis says, whoever is going to buy the football club will not be buying shares. If the plc then goes into Administration and then Liquidation ALL shareholders will have valuless shares including Lowe, Wilde, Crouch etc. They will have lost everything. Again my view Would be funny if that actually happened. I think some people would explode if Lowe and Wilde gave up everything for the good of the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 30 March, 2009 Author Share Posted 30 March, 2009 But if SFC folds how do they expect to get £23 for SMS? This is point i was trying to make with you the other day. They won't they would have to do something else with it that they think would give them a maximum return. However (And this is pure guesswork) if Mark Dennis is right (Big if), then i woudl imagine that Southampton Football club would take over the loan from SLH and everything woudl just run as normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Marco Posted 30 March, 2009 Share Posted 30 March, 2009 I'm 99% certain the only way they would be able to do that would be with the creditors backing. So that means all the people who have lent us money would be saying ok to losing their money. Due to the fact we owe money on the stadium to Norwich Union of more then £3m (£23m?)then why would they agree to give up their money? They would never do that. They would claim default on the loan which means they would be entitled to claim assets equal to the amount owed. Therefore they could probably claim the stadium. That then means the new company has a club with no stadium. They would then have to either buy or rent the stadium from Norwich Union who will be ****ed they were not paid back and could block it, chosing to dismantle the stadium and sell the land off. They would make a vast amount of money by selling the land due to it being in the city. If things were as simple as that every company in the current financial climate would be doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 30 March, 2009 Share Posted 30 March, 2009 Not necessarily. The phrase "Something is worth what a purchaser will pay for it" applies. In the case of a listed company the market capitalisation would usually give a good indication, however a fair market capitalisation depends upon a "perfect market" for the shares (i.e. they can be bought and sold easily and are traded regularly as well as all information being out in the open). My understanding is that there are very few SLH shares in ready circulation to be traded regularly. In addition the actual state of the company's finances isn't known. It could be argued that the current market cap isn't a fair reflection of the current value of the club. So are you suggesting a fair reflection would be more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 30 March, 2009 Share Posted 30 March, 2009 I've just had a call from someone who was listening to Radio Hampshire, who reckons they've just said we are being taken over!! Anybody hear the same or did they mishear same radio hampshire who reported that Surman had been sold last window, when I emailed them re source -reply was a caller! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clapham Saint Posted 30 March, 2009 Share Posted 30 March, 2009 What is undervalue ???? the football club is the PLC s only revenue stream . If they sold it for any less than the share value that would be deemed as undervalue , and if they can sell it for the share pricethen you dont con the share holders. I think it would lead to very deep questioning . See my answer re the share value above. 2 other points to include though are that: 1) I'm not sure which Company (i.e. SLH or Southampton Footbal Club Limited) owns the stadium but this wouldn't necessarily be included in the sale. 2) It could also be agrued that the value of "the club" (i.e. the buiness which is owned by "Southampton Football Club Limited" which is in turn owned by "SLH") should be higher than the share price as the share price includes the debts of the company as well as the assets. If an investor bough the club they wouldn't necessarily take on the debts as well. Somebody who knows what the rough debt is can add it up but I doubt that anybody would really argue that the club was worth the current share price (£3m by your figures) plus the club's debts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clapham Saint Posted 30 March, 2009 Share Posted 30 March, 2009 So are you suggesting a fair reflection would be more? Possibly. I could be argued either way but the key figure is the amount of money that a purchaser is willing to offer and able to pay. No more no less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 30 March, 2009 Author Share Posted 30 March, 2009 same radio hampshire who reported that Surman had been sold last window, when I emailed them re source -reply was a caller! Ha ha that's quality - well ive emailed them as well, so we'll see what they say. It's probably ******** and designed to get more people tuning in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clapham Saint Posted 30 March, 2009 Share Posted 30 March, 2009 I'm 99% certain the only way they would be able to do that would be with the creditors backing. So that means all the people who have lent us money would be saying ok to losing their money. Due to the fact we owe money on the stadium to Norwich Union of more then £3m (£23m?)then why would they agree to give up their money? They would never do that. They would claim default on the loan which means they would be entitled to claim assets equal to the amount owed. Therefore they could probably claim the stadium. That then means the new company has a club with no stadium. They would then have to either buy or rent the stadium from Norwich Union who will be ****ed they were not paid back and could block it, chosing to dismantle the stadium and sell the land off. They would make a vast amount of money by selling the land due to it being in the city. If things were as simple as that every company in the current financial climate would be doing it. Selling assets subject to a fixed charge requires the chargeholder's permission. In our case Barclays and Aviva. If the stadium is not being sold then Aviva's permission might not be neeeded it will depend upon the exact nature of the debture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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