RedAndWhite91 Posted 13 May, 2009 Share Posted 13 May, 2009 Me and my mate were wondering whether this rivalry we seem to have is with Spurs is purely down to Glenn Hoddle moving there and then taking Dean Richards with him, or is there more to it than just that? I also imagine 'Arry has made the 'rivalry' worse... Anyone know if there is more to it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLINK Posted 13 May, 2009 Share Posted 13 May, 2009 to be honest I dont think they give a monkeys about us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFM Posted 14 May, 2009 Share Posted 14 May, 2009 I think you're about right there in your summary although I have always found the enormous number of arrogant, armchair Spurs fans in any given pub in the London vicinity a huge irritation. Add Teddy Sheringham into the equation and you're there. I like to think we helped get Hoddle sacked when Saints won there 3-1 which always cheers me up and, of course, Harry going there made it even more of a no brainer to dislike them intensely. Especially after Rupert told us they were "yobbos". I think that is one thing he was right about to be fair although he could have just said wxnkers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stockportsaint Posted 14 May, 2009 Share Posted 14 May, 2009 to be honest I dont think they give a monkeys about us. exactly - in the same way as we don't care about AFCB fans trying to stir it with us. Spurs rivalries would be (IMHO): Arsenal for football/locality Chelsea/West Ham for the hoolies (if you believe Football Factory). Mark Bosnich for the Basil Fawlty "comedy" routine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 14 May, 2009 Share Posted 14 May, 2009 i know they gave me a good hiding in 71 at White Hart Lane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintleigh Posted 14 May, 2009 Share Posted 14 May, 2009 Me and my mate were wondering whether this rivalry we seem to have is with Spurs is purely down to Glenn Hoddle moving there and then taking Dean Richards with him, or is there more to it than just that? I also imagine 'Arry has made the 'rivalry' worse... Anyone know if there is more to it? In my mind it goes back further than Hoddle/Richards. Spurs used to use the Transfer Tribunal for out of contract players (pre-bosman) and play serious hardball. I recall the saga over Ruddock - we wanted £1m + (?) they offered some derisory amount, about £250k and the tribunal settled on about £500k. Don't think it was just with us - other clubs suffered as well. But I think other posters got it about right - it's like the Saints/AFCB situation - the rivalry is all from one side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 14 May, 2009 Share Posted 14 May, 2009 I stopped wanting Spurs to fail the minute they worked out what a ****e manager Glenda was and sacked him. I always quite liked Spurs before and do again, especially in the Jol era. There are plenty of Northern Clubs I dislike above Spurs. I don't think there is any collective anti spurs feeling these days - some individual dislike, but I don't think you could say "saints fans hate spurs" any more. Could you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joneth Posted 14 May, 2009 Share Posted 14 May, 2009 When the Skates play Spurs I probably just about want pompey to win. I only know a couple of pompey fans but I know loads of arrogant ***t spurs fans, so I take great pleasure in seeing them lose. I've hated spurs since as long as I've followed football, purely because of the people that support them. The Richards/Hoddle thing just confirmed that the arrogant t0ss3r syndrome extends to the spurs board as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Bognor Posted 14 May, 2009 Share Posted 14 May, 2009 I've hated spurs since as long as I've followed football, purely because of the people that support them. I can see where you are coming from. The problem for me is that most Spuds fans constantly bang on about how big a club they are. They are not Manu, Pool, Chelski or the Arse and they really have a problem with that. They are more akin to City or Everton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponty Posted 14 May, 2009 Share Posted 14 May, 2009 Who? I'll always want Redknapp to look a chump but I don't particularly care who with. As for Spurs themselves, nah, I don't care about them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 14 May, 2009 Share Posted 14 May, 2009 think it goes back to that season we were 8 points in front with only a few games to go and they pipped us for promotion after Charlie Wayman was injured, before my time so not 100% sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintDonkey Posted 14 May, 2009 Share Posted 14 May, 2009 I forgave the Spuds for nicking Glenda and Deano the day they we thrashed them at the Lane and cost Hoddle his job. That was such a great day out it was impossible to hold a grudge after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuengirola Saint Posted 14 May, 2009 Share Posted 14 May, 2009 think it goes back to that season we were 8 points in front with only a few games to go and they pipped us for promotion after Charlie Wayman was injured' date=' before my time so not 100% sure[/quote'] They never pipped us it was Fulham and West Brom, we actually went to Tottenham and won courtesy of an injured Charlie Wayman and i think the attendance that day was about 69,000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFC Forever Posted 14 May, 2009 Share Posted 14 May, 2009 Bang on FS. Added to that was the fact Charlie scored when injured and would have come off in today's game and probably wouldn't have missed all eight games left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 14 May, 2009 Share Posted 14 May, 2009 (edited) Me and my mate were wondering whether this rivalry we seem to have is with Spurs is purely down to Glenn Hoddle moving there and then taking Dean Richards with him, or is there more to it than just that? I also imagine 'Arry has made the 'rivalry' worse... Anyone know if there is more to it? Interesting..but I think there is a longer history. (much of this info. came from my late-father who was a Saints fan in the 1930's ..and the postwar period 1946 -on). There seemed to be a lot of respect for Arsenal (who had signed Ex Saints Ted Drake in 1934 and the record sum of ...£6000 ( kept Saints from bankruptcy) and Drake scored all SEVEN goals in a League game v. Aston Villa (A. won 7-1 at Villa Park in 1935) and Drake was one of SEVEN Arsenal players who played for England in the same match 1937 ? ..and beat Italy 4-1). Arsenal were a great side and we had respect for them. HOWEVER ..In the post war period 1946 - Tottenham is another story. Apart from mediocre sides like Fulham and West Ham, Spurs were the " top " London side in the division. Even so Saints often managed to finish above these teams (whilst narrowly missing promotion themselves THREE seasons in a row. 1948/9/50). BUT (with Pompey in Div 1..Saints loved to beat Spurs - which we regularly did) At the time Saints had a reserve full back ALF RAMSEY, who had difficulty getting a start because the regulars; Bill Ellerington and Bill Rochford were superb, but nevertheless both Ellerington and Ramsey were chosen to play as England full backs in the same season 1948/9. Sadly Ellerington contracted pneumonia (a killer disease at the time) and was out for a year. Ramsey came in and went from strength to strength and (some say) he was lured away to Tottenham, the following year and Spurs won the title (with Ramsey in their defence) ...while Saints were 4th). Many fans felt anger toward both Spurs AND Ramsey. From here on - it was all downhill and Saints were relegated 3 years later. Ramsey went on to captain England, and manage Englands World Cup win in 1966 - the year Saints were promoted to Div.1 (first time). Cue another transfer-this time Martin Chivers -another record fee £125K. and Chivers was Englands no.9. I've met fans from every part of the country, but Spurs fans always seemed to be amongst the most arrogant there are, whilst Liverpool (who have a far greater record of success are nearly always open and fair to both sides). In his famous comment about " not being dictated to by a load of North London yobbos " - (over the Glenn Hoddle defection) -I found a rare occasion when I was in total agreement with Rupert Lowe on an issue. Games between the two sides have always been the subject of controversy, and often anger over on-field decisions (and for our part often humiliating defeats)..and Spurs fans are not gracious to their opponents in victory, and you'll find it hard to find a Spurs fan who will sympathise with our fate. In short -(to my generation) -if you couldn't beat Pompey, then you'd love to beat Spurs ! There have been moments of satisfaction (and revenge). Despite Hoddles' Spurs beating Saints heavily in his first season, we had the consolation of beating Spurs (away) sometime later - the impatient Spurs Board sacked Hoddle the next week ! Goes back to old tribal rivalry doesn't it ? Edited 14 May, 2009 by david in sweden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BotleySaint Posted 14 May, 2009 Share Posted 14 May, 2009 wrong thread oops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopGun Posted 14 May, 2009 Share Posted 14 May, 2009 Me and my mate were wondering whether this rivalry we seem to have is with Spurs is purely down to Glenn Hoddle moving there and then taking Dean Richards with him, or is there more to it than just that? I also imagine 'Arry has made the 'rivalry' worse... Anyone know if there is more to it? It goes back to 1987 when I was in halls of residence at uni with a Spurs fan actually. The Spurs fan was a ****, they got knocked out of the FA Cup by Bradford, I quickly made a load of mock ups of Spurs players in gay sex acts and stuck them on his door so that he was extra annoyed when he got back from the game. He wasn't best happy. I take the blame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burger Posted 14 May, 2009 Share Posted 14 May, 2009 I can't see that we have any major rivalry with Spurs. I quite like them - due to a mate who is ST holder at WHL. It might have been different (for them) if we hadn't gifted them a point in 1978 (last game of season). Which reminds me if we still have a team next year, we need to see Orient as last away game of the season. In 78 as before we got a point which secured our promotion and we expected Spurs to turn up that night......they didn't (nor did Orient fans!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burger Posted 14 May, 2009 Share Posted 14 May, 2009 When the Skates play Spurs I probably just about want pompey to win. I only know a couple of pompey fans but I know loads of arrogant ***t spurs fans, so I take great pleasure in seeing them lose. I've hated spurs since as long as I've followed football, purely because of the people that support them. The Richards/Hoddle thing just confirmed that the arrogant t0ss3r syndrome extends to the spurs board as well. I've been following the discussions on this forum for some time and read many strange things but never would I ever imagine that a Saints supporter would want P*mpy to win....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dicko Posted 14 May, 2009 Share Posted 14 May, 2009 Spurs have given us £18M for Richards, Hoddle & Bale How can anyone hate them for that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soggy Bottom Posted 14 May, 2009 Share Posted 14 May, 2009 A lot of reasons above, but the icing on the cake for me was the 4-0 thumping we gave them in 2003, not the win for us, but the angry display of the Spurs fans which frightened a lot of children in the crowd. :mad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No 2 to Maybush Posted 14 May, 2009 Share Posted 14 May, 2009 Interesting..but I think there is a longer history. (much of this info. came from my late-father who was a Saints fan in the 1930's ..and the postwar period 1946 -on). There seemed to be a lot of respect for Arsenal (who had signed Ex Saints Ted Drake in 1934 and the record sum of ...£6000 ( kept Saints from bankruptcy) and Drake scored all SEVEN goals in a League game v. Aston Villa (A. won 7-1 at Villa Park in 1935) and Drake was one of SEVEN Arsenal players who played for England in the same match 1937 ? ..and beat Italy 4-1). Arsenal were a great side and we had respect for them. HOWEVER ..In the post war period 1946 - Tottenham is another story. Apart from mediocre sides like Fulham and West Ham, Spurs were the " top " London side in the division. Even so Saints often managed to finish above these teams (whilst narrowly missing promotion themselves THREE seasons in a row. 1948/9/50). BUT (with Pompey in Div 1..Saints loved to beat Spurs - which we regularly did) At the time Saints had a reserve full back ALF RAMSEY, who had difficulty getting a start because the regulars; Bill Ellerington and Bill Rochford were superb, but nevertheless both Ellerington and Ramsey were chosen to play as England full backs in the same season 1948/9. Sadly Ellerington contracted pneumonia (a killer disease at the time) and was out for a year. Ramsey came in and went from strength to strength and (some say) he was lured away to Tottenham, the following year and Spurs won the title (with Ramsey in their defence) ...while Saints were 4th). Many fans felt anger toward both Spurs AND Ramsey. From here on - it was all downhill and Saints were relegated 3 years later. Ramsey went on to captain England, and manage Englands World Cup win in 1966 - the year Saints were promoted to Div.1 (first time). Cue another transfer-this time Martin Chivers -another record fee £125K. and Chivers was Englands no.9. I've met fans from every part of the country, but Spurs fans always seemed to be amongst the most arrogant there are, whilst Liverpool (who have a far greater record of success are nearly always open and fair to both sides). In his famous comment about " not being dictated to by a load of North London yobbos " - (over the Glenn Hoddle defection) -I found a rare occasion when I was in total agreement with Rupert Lowe on an issue. Games between the two sides have always been the subject of controversy, and often anger over on-field decisions (and for our part often humiliating defeats)..and Spurs fans are not gracious to their opponents in victory, and you'll find it hard to find a Spurs fan who will sympathise with our fate. In short -(to my generation) -if you couldn't beat Pompey, then you'd love to beat Spurs ! There have been moments of satisfaction (and revenge). Despite Hoddles' Spurs beating Saints heavily in his first season, we had the consolation of beating Spurs (away) sometime later - the impatient Spurs Board sacked Hoddle the next week ! Goes back to old tribal rivalry doesn't it ? Interesting history Dave. I thought the animosity started when Chivers went there, I can remember being really gutted, which is where I thought it started, but was unaware of the Ramsey link. It obviously goes back a long way then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Steve Posted 14 May, 2009 Share Posted 14 May, 2009 does it not go back to when we both got promoted to the old divison 1. we both went up the same season, battling it out for the division 2 title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtonesfc Posted 14 May, 2009 Share Posted 14 May, 2009 I have never liked Spurs,and have had a few run-ins with their supporters over the years.They are up there with Pompey and Man u!...IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa Shango Posted 14 May, 2009 Share Posted 14 May, 2009 Spurs have given us £18M for Richards, Hoddle & Bale How can anyone hate them for that? So what? If Pompey had given us £18M for Richards, Hoddle & Bale you still hate them wouldn't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
explorer saint Posted 14 May, 2009 Share Posted 14 May, 2009 There is no rivalry, and it would make them p..s themselves if they thought we regarded them as such! Grow up we have only one rival Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eelpie Posted 14 May, 2009 Share Posted 14 May, 2009 Spurs have given us £18M for Richards, Hoddle & Bale How can anyone hate them for that? Plus a few bob for Chivers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eelpie Posted 14 May, 2009 Share Posted 14 May, 2009 exactly - in the same way as we don't care about AFCB fans trying to stir it with us. We had better stop being patronising towards Bournemouth. They survived their points deduction. We have yet to do this and could well be playing them in League 2 in a couple of seasons. There again they could well leapfrog us into League 1. Or we might not even exist and they become our local team. Happy days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpturner Posted 14 May, 2009 Share Posted 14 May, 2009 (edited) does it not go back to when we both got promoted to the old divison 1. we both went up the same season, battling it out for the division 2 title.I think the reverse may have been true, because that match was clearly fixed. I was there, crushed in the Milton, and Spurs needed a draw to go up with us and Bolton. We needed a win for the title. I have never seen such a high profile match so poorly contested. Somebody nearly buggered up the whole thing when he hit the post (Tony Funnell I believe). Edited 14 May, 2009 by kpturner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadhall Saint Posted 14 May, 2009 Share Posted 14 May, 2009 I think the reverse may have been true, because that match was clearly fixed. I was there, crushed in the Milton, and Spurs needed a draw to go up with us and Bolton. We needed a win for the title. I have never seen such a high profile match so poorly contested. Somebody nearly buggered up the whole thing when he hit the post (Tony Funnel I believe). First match with fences or was it first match with broken fences? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chorlton Posted 14 May, 2009 Share Posted 14 May, 2009 I don't give a toss about Spurs and actually think our manufactured rivalry with them a few years ago made us look a bit small time. Our club shop selling "Be a Gooner for the Day" T-Shirts made me cringe. I don't think we have ever really registered with Spurs that much, though I did read one of their forums when we went into Admin which seemed to remid them of Rupes' claims that we were as big as them. We weren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 14 May, 2009 Share Posted 14 May, 2009 Interesting history Dave. I thought the animosity started when Chivers went there, I can remember being really gutted, which is where I thought it started, but was unaware of the Ramsey link. It obviously goes back a long way then. I suspect the rivalry goes back to early days as DiS says. When I first started supporting Saints as a nipper in 66 Spurs were the main rivals, Pompey hardly ever got mentioned. The Chivers saga didn't help, but I think that came afterwards. Maybe it goes back even further to the old Southern league days when Spurs and Saints were real rivals for being the top team in the South, I'm not old enough quite to recall those days. But for some to claim there is no rivalry is to not understand our history. Many supporters followed both Saints and Pompey certainly up to the 60s, going to home games alternate weeks, the two teams hardly ever being in the same division, and therefore not really great rivals at all. Whereas for many years we did play Spuds regularly. OK, these days and perhaps since the 20s Spurs would look on the Arse as their bigger rivals (they are local rivals, as opposed to just rivals), Spurs were our real rivals (if not local). The later issues with Lowe and the North London Yobbos events in my mind simply added weight to a long-standing rivalry we had always had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supersubpuckett Posted 14 May, 2009 Share Posted 14 May, 2009 What a load of crap. All fans are arrogant about their clubs and to be honest I don't think Saints rate as a "club we hate" by many other supporters - possibly quite the opposite. If anything Spurs traditionally like to play the same style of football that we do - I seem to remember a lot of high scoring games in the past and the Boxing Day fixture became something I really looked forward to. My family (including out-laws) are all ardent yids and would p1ss themselves if they thought we perceived this rift. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badvoc Posted 14 May, 2009 Share Posted 14 May, 2009 Saints fans may feel there is a 'rivalry' there (not entirely sure why, despite the points made above), but I can assure you we don't appear anywhere on their radar. I would say that all the London clubs + Utd, L'pool, Leeds, Newcastle would be way ahead of us, followed by the likes of Citeh, Everton, Sheff Weds and Utd etc etc Other than Poopey (and possibly Bournemouth) we have no rivals. I would not even class Reading, Swindon or Brighton on their level...and as somebody said above Spuds would p*** themselves laughing if they knew we were having this discussion. In short, I think it would be fair to say that everone hates Spurs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 14 May, 2009 Share Posted 14 May, 2009 (edited) Saints fans may feel there is a 'rivalry' there (not entirely sure why, despite the points made above), but I can assure you we don't appear anywhere on their radar. I would say that all the London clubs + Utd, L'pool, Leeds, Newcastle would be way ahead of us, followed by the likes of Citeh, Everton, Sheff Weds and Utd etc etc Other than Poopey (and possibly Bournemouth) we have no rivals. I would not even class Reading, Swindon or Brighton on their level...and as somebody said above Spuds would p*** themselves laughing if they knew we were having this discussion. In short, I think it would be fair to say that everone hates Spurs. You may be right about the " current day fans " but I can assure you that neither my generation (1960's onwards ) or my fathers (1930-50) were very enamoured with Spurs as a team (or their fans). Yes they've had a long time at the top--but apart from their famous "double side " and a few cups - they come a long way behind Man.U, Liverpool, Arsenal and even the modern Chelsea side. Even N.Forest, Leeds, Ipswich, Everton, Blackburn and Villa all have a much better record than Spurs in the period 1980-2000. In the period 66-73 Spurs finished 3rd twice and were often only mid-table. When we regained DIV.1 status (77/78) we were 2nd ..and Spurs were 3rd. In the following 15 years, the best Spurs made was 3rd twice. 4 times we finished above them, and were within a point or so ..on 4 other occasions. Since Premier League started (1992 ) - we've struggled a lot but Spurs have been little better. Best placing 7th, (94/95) but then often below mid table and on 3 occasions they finished below Saints. Not a lot to brag about for a team who've laid out hundreds of £millions in transfers fees in that time. I think I'd have expected more if I'd been a shareholder. Though Spurs may not be in Rupert Lowe's league (for managerial changes) they have had a lot of changes in the Board room and managers chair. (Sorry Spurs, I know 'arry has rescued you this time, but it won't last - he's always on for a new payday, is 'arry ! ... Be warned! Next step is ....he'll get rid of Gareth Bale ! Edited 14 May, 2009 by david in sweden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lil 1 Posted 14 May, 2009 Share Posted 14 May, 2009 Theres a book out by Trevour Tanner,Spurs main hooligan.In it he calls us scummers and apart from Chelsea hates us the most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Majestic Channon Posted 14 May, 2009 Share Posted 14 May, 2009 I went to Spurs V hull this season, had a drink in a pub down the seven sisters road , a mate let on i was saints ..had no problems,had a laugh infact, i don't think we are in their thoughts to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 14 May, 2009 Share Posted 14 May, 2009 I went to Spurs V hull this season, had a drink in a pub down the seven sisters road , a mate let on i was saints ..had no problems,had a laugh infact, i don't think we are in their thoughts to be honest. Not nowadays of course, but the opening of this thread asked about the apparant " hostility " between the two clubs/ fans - and that goes back a very long way.(see my earlier history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lets B Avenue Posted 14 May, 2009 Share Posted 14 May, 2009 The legend of Dougal v Sammy. I held the great mans watch at WHL whilst it all kicked off. League cup 68-69. I was 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 14 May, 2009 Share Posted 14 May, 2009 The legend of Dougal v Sammy. I held the great mans watch at WHL whilst it all kicked off. League cup 68-69. I was 10. It goes back to the late 1890s when Spurs and Saints were fighting it out to be acknowledged as the best club south of Birmingham. For a while it was Saints as we won the Southern League (then a rival to the Football League) three times in a row (1896-9) and then in 1900 became the first non Football League team to reach the FA Cup Final. Unfortunately Spurs reached the Final the next year and won it. Bitter rivalry ensued for quite a few years with Saints regaining the upperhand in the Southern League but Spurs gained Football League status before us and from then on in never really looked back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkSFC Posted 14 May, 2009 Share Posted 14 May, 2009 In the literal sense of the word we are rivals to every single club, but I think as a "collective fanbase" there is only one rival. Individually, everyone will like/dislike/even hate other teams for very different and sometimes personal reasons. It would be fair to assume that you could find fans at every club who hate saints and fans that like saints, and the same is true of us. E.G. I hate Everton (although I admire Moyes), simply because of Highbury 1984. In fact I hate Adrian Heath for (possibly) being the only player in the world short enough to have headed that goal...also hate sandpits!!! Irrational but thats how these things develop! Most people I know like Everton! I grew up hating Leeds because my father hated them because of the infamous "p*** take" in 1971 (or whatever date it was!). This was compounded by Alan Smith at the Dell in 1999/2000?? (Im not good with dates!). The point being that when you sign up to support Saints, there is only one rule regarding rivalry....hate or dislike the Skates, no-one else matters....simples! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 14 May, 2009 Share Posted 14 May, 2009 The legend of Dougal v Sammy. I held the great mans watch at WHL whilst it all kicked off. League cup 68-69. I was 10. maybe that was the year i got a good hiding under the main stand at WHL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badvoc Posted 14 May, 2009 Share Posted 14 May, 2009 Hi David, appreciate what you said about Saints-Spurs encounters of the past (1930s, 50s & 60s) but as I think you said on an earlier thread they were top draw opponents and were the best team in London (and the country?) at that time. In a similar way, it could be argued we have had similar 'history' and 'rivalry' with Man Utd and Liverpool over the years when we played them; simply because they were the 'Big Guns' who suffered a few spankings down at the Dell (not forgetting '76). The point being though that aside from a few skirmishes with Spurs in the leagues over the years, THEY have never regarded US as rivals. From a personal point of view I have lived in traditionally strong supporting Spurs territories over the last 5 years (indeed am currently in an area that was known in the dim and distant past as 'South Tottenham') and have met and worked with many Spurs fans. At no point ever have they regarded Saints as any rivals, or mentioned us in any historical context. It was always, and always will be the Arse, Chelski and West Ham, along with the North West Giants. You & Duncan make some really interesting points though about the two clubs from the past. Have you any memories though of when Saints invaded WHL in that Cup Semi Final (replay?) game against Forest back in the 1960s? That must have been an impressive sight of all those cars going up the Seven Sisters Road and the c20,000 Saints fans filling The Lane! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldskoolsi Posted 14 May, 2009 Share Posted 14 May, 2009 They also gazumped us in the signing of Do*****z in the mid 90's. Although he was rubbish when he came to the Dell I remember lots of abuse to him in particular and spurs in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dicko Posted 14 May, 2009 Share Posted 14 May, 2009 They also gazumped us in the signing of Do*****z in the mid 90's. Although he was rubbish when he came to the Dell I remember lots of abuse to him in particular and spurs in general. PMSL at the swear filter stopping his name Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 14 May, 2009 Share Posted 14 May, 2009 It goes back to the late 1890s when Spurs and Saints were fighting it out to be acknowledged as the best club south of Birmingham. For a while it was Saints as we won the Southern League (then a rival to the Football League) three times in a row (1896-9) and then in 1900 became the first non Football League team to reach the FA Cup Final. Unfortunately Spurs reached the Final the next year and won it. Bitter rivalry ensued for quite a few years with Saints regaining the upperhand in the Southern League but Spurs gained Football League status before us and from then on in never really looked back. As I suspected, the rivalry does go back to the very early days, now I know what I suspected was close to the truth. Cheers FF. Far more of a "rivalry" when I started than Pompey were, sadly in the last few years most seem to have forgotten, but some of us still remember the real rivalry that existed, even if it started a little bit before our time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 14 May, 2009 Share Posted 14 May, 2009 Hi David, appreciate what you said about Saints-Spurs encounters of the past (1930s, 50s & 60s) but as I think you said on an earlier thread they were top draw opponents and were the best team in London (and the country?) at that time. In a similar way, it could be argued we have had similar 'history' and 'rivalry' with Man Utd and Liverpool over the years when we played them; simply because they were the 'Big Guns' who suffered a few spankings down at the Dell (not forgetting '76). The point being though that aside from a few skirmishes with Spurs in the leagues over the years, THEY have never regarded US as rivals. From a personal point of view I have lived in traditionally strong supporting Spurs territories over the last 5 years (indeed am currently in an area that was known in the dim and distant past as 'South Tottenham') and have met and worked with many Spurs fans. At no point ever have they regarded Saints as any rivals, or mentioned us in any historical context. It was always, and always will be the Arse, Chelski and West Ham, along with the North West Giants. You & Duncan make some really interesting points though about the two clubs from the past. Have you any memories though of when Saints invaded WHL in that Cup Semi Final (replay?) game against Forest back in the 1960s? That must have been an impressive sight of all those cars going up the Seven Sisters Road and the c20,000 Saints fans filling The Lane! Duncan made the point that 100 years ago we were two of the best teams around at the time and Saints had a far superior record against both Pompey and Spurs. When the new leagues were created in 1921, Saints moved up from Div 3 South to Div 2 and stayed there for over 30 years. Spurs and later Pompey moved up to Div.1 ...so the " derby games " were few and far between. Spurs were a bit if a yo-yo side in the 1930's and we played then often then, but derby games v. Pompey only occured in Cup matches. As someone else stated it wasn't unusual for fans to watch Saints one week and Pompey the next - there seemed to be little antagonsim between fans as the clubs rarely met, and many wartime players had played for both sides at one time or another and were good friends. Fans travelling to away games in those days was not as common as now....few had cars, very slow train services, etc.. no extra busses at the grounds etc. In short - our closest " top class " opponents in the 1930's / 1940's were Spurs, and that was (my Dad said) the big game of the season, and many travelled to London for the famous game at WHL in April 1949 which saw Charlie Wayman score Saints goal (won 1-0) with a gate of over 69,000+ but Wayman was injured and didn't play again that season, we went into freefall and missed promotion by one point. The rest I wrote about earlier. In the 1960's there was no Spurs, but Pompey had been relegated and we had several seasons of " local, but not very friendly " derby games. Football hooliganism was rife, and our derby games with Pompey were all out war sometimes. Young winger Terry Paine was at his peak, but marked (literally) in derbies by Pompeys LB Roy Lunnis. A 6' 4" ex-marine, he wasn't noted for his skill but his hard play. He stood head and shoulders over TP - who wasn't afraid of a punch-up, even from the likes of Lunnis, and there were a few bookings / sendings off. The on-the-field violence naturally spread to the fans. Hence the dislike of Pompey that wasn't there before, but the memories and the ritual hatred (sadly) continues to this day. The three matches v. Notts Forest (a good Div.1 side then) were legend. I saw the Dell (1st replay) when we came back from 0-3 ..with only 17 mins. left ..to 3-3 ...but couldn't finish the job even in extra time. The 2nd replay had to be a neutral ground, and Spurs failed to realise the interest in the game which was a midweek replay between two clubs far from London. There were some "locals" in the ground, but varying reports say 25,000+ Saints travelled to WHL for the evening kick-off. There were no extra trains, and many more travelled by car to London. Spurs didn't have stewards for all the turnstiles - many of which remained locked, and long queues formed outside those that were open. Some people didn't get into the ground until half a hour after the kick-off and late-comers were still arriving even after HT. The official gate was: 42,256 but it was estimated that there were several thousands more listening outside who couldn't get into the locked areas of the ground when those that were open were already full to capacity. The game of course was a classic. Saints carried on where they left off the prev.week and took Forest by storm. Two goals in 5 mins. before HT (2-0) and three more in the second half saw us run out 5-0 winners. M.O.M was Saints midfield dynamo Ken Wimshurst played his best match ever, scored a goal a great goal and Burnside and O'Brien got two each. (The SF game at Villa Park v. Man Utd was a great anti-climax. neither team could put two passes together and M.U. won 1-0 when Denis Law scored, after missing a cross into the box with his head, the ball fell to his feet and he had two goes at it to beat the grounded Reynolds in the Saints goal.) Ah !.. memories, memories.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badvoc Posted 14 May, 2009 Share Posted 14 May, 2009 Great stuff, David. Some cracking memories there. Hopefully we'll be able to emulate those Cup replay epics in the near future! Personally I can't wait to take the trip over to Brentford & Leyton Orient next season. And who knows, if either turns out to be an end of season game maybe we'll have the opportunity of emulating another of those great Saints away days and get a result that sends us back up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jawillwill Posted 14 May, 2009 Share Posted 14 May, 2009 Me and my mate were wondering whether this rivalry we seem to have is with Spurs is purely down to Glenn Hoddle moving there and then taking Dean Richards with him, or is there more to it than just that? I also imagine 'Arry has made the 'rivalry' worse... Anyone know if there is more to it? They signed Mido and we missed out, despite him changing the background on his website to red. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastleighSoulBoy Posted 14 May, 2009 Share Posted 14 May, 2009 Interesting history Dave. I thought the animosity started when Chivers went there, I can remember being really gutted, which is where I thought it started, but was unaware of the Ramsey link. It obviously goes back a long way then. Chivers went there in '68, we got some money and Frank Saul! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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