Fitzhugh Fella Posted 18 May, 2009 Share Posted 18 May, 2009 (edited) that, in the traumatic circumstances, the creditors are being a little too greedy. (Perhaps "unrealistic" or even "over ambitious" would be a better choice of adverb than "greedy") Excellent source. Edited 18 May, 2009 by Fitzhugh Fella Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorpie the sinner Posted 18 May, 2009 Share Posted 18 May, 2009 that, in the traumatic circumstances, the creditors are being a little too greedy. Excellent source. can their avarice be overcome? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junior Mullet Posted 18 May, 2009 Share Posted 18 May, 2009 Well they will have to back down or face getting buggger all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ladysaint Posted 18 May, 2009 Share Posted 18 May, 2009 Is this what is holding up the deal(s) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chocco boxo Posted 18 May, 2009 Share Posted 18 May, 2009 Fry cannot even tie his own tie up properly, let alone tie up a ****ing deal! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junior Mullet Posted 18 May, 2009 Share Posted 18 May, 2009 Would explain Mark Fry's comments however. The longer this goes on the higher BT's fees are and they get paid first, before any creditors - they really do need to back down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_Jonny Posted 18 May, 2009 Share Posted 18 May, 2009 They are faceless, massive organisations, they were never going to show empathy towards our cause. How I wish they ****ing would though!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noodles34 Posted 18 May, 2009 Share Posted 18 May, 2009 Don't know if greedy is the right word? They lend money, expect it back and then are faced with the proposition of having to accept a few pence in the pound. Imagine, you lend a mate 100 quid and he then later says, take 6 pence or nothing, you got to remember who is in the wrong here. However, perhaps the creditors need to take a reality check, without knowing figures, its hard to tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docker-p Posted 18 May, 2009 Share Posted 18 May, 2009 that, in the traumatic circumstances, the creditors are being a little too greedy. Excellent source. No offence FF but if your source is one of the bidders, or from their 'side', well they would say that wouldn't they. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK Posted 18 May, 2009 Share Posted 18 May, 2009 that, in the traumatic circumstances, the creditors are being a little too greedy. Excellent source. Is it not a bit rich calling them greedy in this instance ?They are after all, no matter what happens going to suffer pretty heavy losses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Bates Posted 18 May, 2009 Share Posted 18 May, 2009 that, in the traumatic circumstances, the creditors are being a little too greedy. Excellent source. Funnily enough, this doesn't surprise me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 18 May, 2009 Share Posted 18 May, 2009 FF I know he got a lot of stick for it, but nickh tried to run a thread on this subject last week and got slated for it. I am glad to see your sources seem to align with the rumours from last week. Not sure how that helps us out of this current mess, hope somebody can hit that moving target in the next day or so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 18 May, 2009 Share Posted 18 May, 2009 Is it not a bit rich calling them greedy in this instance ?They are after all, no matter what happens going to suffer pretty heavy losses.Well Fry at Barclays should be asked why he pulled the plug.Whilst their risks may have increased by letting us increase our overdraft a bit they may well now have a larger amount left in assets. Very few agree with me but it does not seem right the whole saga. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INFLUENCED.COM Posted 18 May, 2009 Share Posted 18 May, 2009 When you hear of 8 mil banded about with a contingent consortium having 5m, as a creditor you would have to think the clubs worth more, still if everything falls on its arse its easy to blame Barclays et al for no deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thefuriousb Posted 18 May, 2009 Share Posted 18 May, 2009 can their avarice be overcome? That's the question we all want to hear the answer to. As one of the biggest creditors, Barclays are playing a very risky game PR-wise. Lets hope any deal on the table is fair and reasonable to all sides... especially ours ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewell Posted 18 May, 2009 Share Posted 18 May, 2009 I have never ever heard of anyone owed money being described as greedy. Shame on you FF for this latest bit of poorly worded spin! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 18 May, 2009 Share Posted 18 May, 2009 FF I know he got a lot of stick for it, but nickh tried to run a thread on this subject last week and got slated for it. I am glad to see your sources seem to align with the rumours from last week. Not sure how that helps us out of this current mess, hope somebody can hit that moving target in the next day or soHi Phil I do hope your golf went well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorpie the sinner Posted 18 May, 2009 Share Posted 18 May, 2009 There can't be many places left to put the goalposts!!!! Northam end?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 18 May, 2009 Share Posted 18 May, 2009 I have never ever heard of anyone owed money being described as greedy. Shame on you FF for this latest bit of poorly worded spin! As the source is unlikely to be the creditors I would suggest the bidder does not have enough money to satisfy the administrator. The adminstrator works for the creditors not the fans so grreedy is probably not the correct word to use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
so22saint Posted 18 May, 2009 Share Posted 18 May, 2009 The creditors are Aviva and Barclays I take it - they're both in financial ****e so I think "greedy" isn't so much the word as "desperate" Either way, I don't think Fry is particularly to blame for this - one of the things that's struck me about this whole sorry episode is that everybody on here still wants to blame somebody, Fry, Aviva, Barclays etc. whereas, as before, there's *nothing* we can do about it. The blame game's pointless really - this comes from a bloke who couldn't help blaming Lowe - and I still do for where we've got to, but really, what difference does it make.... :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wild-saint Posted 18 May, 2009 Share Posted 18 May, 2009 Maybe the creditors have heard the two guys in the consotium are worth in excess of £700million and want a larger slice of their money. Clearly the pinnacle group want to buy as cheap as possible. Hmmmmm standard negotiation me thinks. The question is who will walk away if they cant come to a compromise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Chalet Posted 18 May, 2009 Share Posted 18 May, 2009 Commercial suicide from Barclays. Pulling the plug when they did that is, 2 weeks before or 4 weeks later I can understand. I would imagine they now have to consider whether to stump up the £500k themselves to string the process out to find a buyer, otherwise any assets the club will have will be liquidated at fire sale prices. Of course I would imagine Fry's comment has been designed to focus all sides attention. I still remain confident that it is in all parties interests to complete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintDonkey Posted 18 May, 2009 Share Posted 18 May, 2009 Is it not a bit rich calling them greedy in this instance ?They are after all, no matter what happens going to suffer pretty heavy losses. It's bizarre though. We were reducing the debt, by all accounts we'd knocked 2 million off the overdraft in one season. If Barclays hadn't forced us into administration there was a real chance that they would eventually have got all their money. So yes it is greedy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INFLUENCED.COM Posted 18 May, 2009 Share Posted 18 May, 2009 The creditors are Aviva and Barclays I take it - they're both in financial ****e so I think "greedy" isn't so much the word as "desperate"-( Barclays posted some positive results so don't know if thats strictly true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponty Posted 18 May, 2009 Share Posted 18 May, 2009 Barclays posted some positive results so don't know if thats strictly true Indeed. £15m profits in the last quarter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 18 May, 2009 Author Share Posted 18 May, 2009 No offence FF but if your source is one of the bidders, or from their 'side', well they would say that wouldn't they. No my source is not from one of the bidders but someone who is certainly well placed to keep an eye out. And it is not anyone previously connected with the club which rules out all the usual suspects. There is still a degree of brinkmanship going on but that will be of no surprise to anyone on here. Perhaps Fry is just "piggy in the middle". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorpie the sinner Posted 18 May, 2009 Share Posted 18 May, 2009 Maybe the creditors have heard the two guys in the consotium are worth in excess of £700million and want a larger slice of their money. Clearly the pinnacle group want to buy as cheap as possible. Hmmmmm standard negotiation me thinks. The question is who will walk away if they cant come to a compromise? £700m, now that would be nice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teamsaint Posted 18 May, 2009 Share Posted 18 May, 2009 I would think that the liquidation figure might well be more that the 8-10m being bandied about as a sale price. Which would put the club in great jeopardy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuRomseySaint Posted 18 May, 2009 Share Posted 18 May, 2009 that, in the traumatic circumstances, the creditors are being a little too greedy. Excellent source. With respect, if I lent your company £30 million quid and you went into administration, then I would want as much of it back as possible. And if I knew I would get more if your business folded and assets sold, then so be it. 'Greedy' is hardly the right phrase. I would say they 'are trying to get as most of it back as possible' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 18 May, 2009 Author Share Posted 18 May, 2009 I have never ever heard of anyone owed money being described as greedy. Shame on you FF for this latest bit of poorly worded spin! I only spin now for the future of my club - shame on you for thinking otherwise. Yea sure they are owed money (especially the small creditors whom I feel very sorry for) but the criticism is aimed at the bigger creditors who were happy to lend at high rates and are now reaping what they sow in this debacle. Now Ewell go shoot another messenger if it makes you feel better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 18 May, 2009 Share Posted 18 May, 2009 I would think that the liquidation figure might well be more that the 8-10m being bandied about as a sale price. Which would put the club in great jeopardy. You could well be right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvin Posted 18 May, 2009 Share Posted 18 May, 2009 It's like you are reflecting the news that we have heard today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmysaint7 Posted 18 May, 2009 Share Posted 18 May, 2009 No my source is not from one of the bidders but someone who is certainly well placed to keep an eye out. And it is not anyone previously connected with the club which rules out all the usual suspects. There is still a degree of brinkmanship going on but that will be of no surprise to anyone on here. Perhaps Fry is just "piggy in the middle". can you still see the pinnacle deal coming off? any info? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 18 May, 2009 Author Share Posted 18 May, 2009 With respect, if I lent your company £30 million quid and you went into administration, then I would want as much of it back as possible. And if I knew I would get more if your business folded and assets sold, then so be it. 'Greedy' is hardly the right phrase. I would say they 'are trying to get as most of it back as possible' Stu, maybe "greedy" should read "realistic". It was my word actually - not the one my source used but I had to change it to protect the innocent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorpie the sinner Posted 18 May, 2009 Share Posted 18 May, 2009 TL still hasn't packed his bags yet!!!! Taxi for Lynam!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorpie the sinner Posted 18 May, 2009 Share Posted 18 May, 2009 so is anyone more than 4-10 confident we will have new owners at this moment in time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordonToo Posted 18 May, 2009 Share Posted 18 May, 2009 ... the the bidder does not have enough money to satisfy the administrator ... Today's announcement confirmed that one or more members of the Pinnacle consortium dropped out when they realised the scale of investment needed. Fry may be hoping the "foreign" interest can fill the gap but so far so there's little sign of that materialising. FWIW I didn't find Lynam's interview today particuarly convincing and he gave every impression of being part of a 2nd rate outfit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 18 May, 2009 Author Share Posted 18 May, 2009 can you still see the pinnacle deal coming off? any info? Sorry I really dunno - I am in no direct contact with them but I still reckon there is an element of "rolling the dice" going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Super Saint Posted 18 May, 2009 Share Posted 18 May, 2009 No my source is not from one of the bidders but someone who is certainly well placed to keep an eye out. And it is not anyone previously connected with the club which rules out all the usual suspects. There is still a degree of brinkmanship going on but that will be of no surprise to anyone on here. Perhaps Fry is just "piggy in the middle". Is that from people involved in the bid or from people on this messageboard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INFLUENCED.COM Posted 18 May, 2009 Share Posted 18 May, 2009 Indeed. £15m profits in the last quarter. Thought it was 15% pre tax profits of over 1 billion ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuRomseySaint Posted 18 May, 2009 Share Posted 18 May, 2009 Stu, maybe "greedy" should read "realistic". It was my word actually - not the one my source used but I had to change it to protect the innocent. Fair enough, but in any case, if the yes or no is a matter of a couple of million, then I am seriously worried about the financial clout of any of these investors... SFC is a bargain investment in the current situation, and paying a extra few million is not going to make a massive difference in the grand scheme of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gary r Posted 18 May, 2009 Share Posted 18 May, 2009 This is depends if the creditors think the assetts are worth more whether the club survives or not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponty Posted 18 May, 2009 Share Posted 18 May, 2009 Thought it was 15% pre tax profits of over 1 billion ? That could be right actually; I didn't think £15m sounded correct as I typed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie Posted 18 May, 2009 Share Posted 18 May, 2009 The creditors are more than aware that we still have assets, any bid has to be worth more to the creditors than the assets. If the bid is not worth more than the assets then the creditors are better off if the club is liquidated. As others have pointed out there is a game of brinkmanship, but the problem is that the creditors have less to lose. The worse case for them is the liquidation of our assets. Also bare in mind that the creditors have a legal obligation to act in the interests of their shareholders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 18 May, 2009 Author Share Posted 18 May, 2009 Fair enough, but in any case, if the yes or no is a matter of a couple of million, then I am seriously worried about the financial clout of any of these investors... SFC is a bargain investment in the current situation, and paying a extra few million is not going to make a massive difference in the grand scheme of things. Hmm I know where you are coming from but can anyone (who is not a fan) afford to chuck away a couple of million?. From what I have been reliably told the main financial investor behind Pinnacle is far from being a SMS regular or even a casual visitor. Don't even know if he likes football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintDonkey Posted 18 May, 2009 Share Posted 18 May, 2009 With respect, if I lent your company £30 million quid and you went into administration, then I would want as much of it back as possible. And if I knew I would get more if your business folded and assets sold, then so be it. 'Greedy' is hardly the right phrase. I would say they 'are trying to get as most of it back as possible' If it's Aviva who are holding things up you have a point, but if it's Barclays you don't. 2007 Barclays: Here you go Saints borrow £6 million Saints: Cheers 2008 Barclays: Actually we've stuffed up our business can we have that money back now? Saints: Oh don't really have it lying around at the moment I'll pay you back as quickly as I can... Here's 2 Million... 2009 Barclays: Fed up waiting. 4 million now please. Saints: Umm no, we've given you everything we can. Be patient and we'll get it to you. Barclays: BUT I WANT IT NOW! You're going into administration. Administrator: Well the best price I can get for you is 50p in the pound. Barclays: NO NO NO I WANT IT ALL!!! NOW!!!!! I'm just going to sit here throwing my toys out of the pram until I get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamesaint Posted 18 May, 2009 Share Posted 18 May, 2009 That could be right actually; I didn't think £15m sounded correct as I typed it. In the year ended 31 Dec 2008 it was £6.077 billion profit before tax. I don't think it was £15m in Q1?!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strangely Brown Posted 18 May, 2009 Share Posted 18 May, 2009 It's the usual case of who will blink first, mind you the delay and not knowing is killing me!](*,) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amesbury Saint Posted 18 May, 2009 Share Posted 18 May, 2009 On judgement day the creditors will have to settle for anything better than the breakup value of the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuRomseySaint Posted 18 May, 2009 Share Posted 18 May, 2009 Hmm I know where you are coming from but can anyone (who is not a fan) afford to chuck away a couple of million?. From what I have been reliably told the main financial investor behind Pinnacle is far from being a SMS regular or even a casual visitor. Don't even know if he likes football. What is most unrealistic though.... the amount the creditors want from the investors? Or the amount the investors are trying to pick the club up for? Maybe the bank know how much the 'real' value of SFC is, taking into account all of the land etc, and don't want to be mugged off? Just playing devils advocate as I do so well, like! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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