Are we a better side without Lallana?

After watching us miss out on three points thanks for a stunning 30 yard injury time equaliser at the one of the hardest away grounds in the country and today play very well and keep team that had been banging in the goals down to one shot on target, it got me thinking this.

Now I love Lallana as much as any fan and think hes a great player, but since he's been out and Guly has provided us with some much needed tracking back and cover for the full back as well a reasonable attacking threat, we look a solid unit but also still a threat going forward. it's noticeable that in the last two games we've had little threat from the flanks, somewhere we were always vunerbale when AL is playing.

As I say, I'm a big Lallana fan and also believe you should play your best players, however as has been proven many times in the past, the best individuals don't always make the best team and we have certainly looked a better team the last two games against good opposition than we have at anytime this season. What do people think?

Lallana has to play if fit. He's class. But it's good to have alternatives if Adam isn't working

Lallana has to play if fit. He's class. But it's good to have alternatives if Adam isn't working

Yes, he's a great player. But have the last two performances proven we are actually a better team without him?

Yes, he's a great player. But have the last two performances proven we are actually a better team without him?

What losing four points you mean?

What losing four points you mean?

Really? Over the 3 games in christmas period we are actually two ahead of where I thought we'd be.

You could argue we are better defensively with todays set up, but doing without the attacking and creative force of Adam is a massive trade off. Our best attacking football this season seems to be when AL, GR, RL and JP are combining.

Really? Over the 3 games in christmas period we are actually two ahead of where I thought we'd be.

You shouldn't think about Stoke as being a tough place to go. You should think about giving away two goals because we sat so deep and posed no attacking threat...

That said, today we didn't make the same mistake and deserved to win!

You could argue we are better defensively with todays set up, but doing without the attacking and creative force of Adam is a massive trade off. Our best attacking football this season seems to be when AL, GR, RL and JP are combining.

Yes, and if they all work us hard as they did today, we are at least mid-table side!

We do look stronger at the back without him but look weaker going forward.

I thought Guly's defensive work was absolutely excellent today, him and Shaw played AOC out of the game.

It's an interesting question, but i think we may have actually won at least one of those with Lallana in the team, although I wouldn't have a clue who to drop. Strange to say it, but I think Guly improves the team. Did I just write that? That can't be right can it?

It's a great problem to have.

You shouldn't think about Stoke as being a tough place to go. You should think about giving away two goals because we sat so deep and posed no attacking threat...

 

That said, today we didn't make the same mistake and deserved to win!

We got a point and scored three goals against one of the best defences in Europe, we'd have got all three but for an unbelivable strike injury time. It's a point more than most fans thought we would get at 3pm on Saturday.

I'd suggest our tactical set up has been different, we've played with a bit more passion then the sunderland game and don't think Guly's defensive work has been up to much.

Agreed we've been impressive against Arsenal and, to a lesser extent, Stoke but AL has dragged us through games before now.

If anything it's showed that Guly has a role to play and we can have some sort of tactical flexibility.

Little off topic but Guly has certainly played like a man with a real point to prove in the last few games, can only be a positive for us.

We got a point and scored three goals against one of the best defences in Europe, we'd have got all three but for an unbelivable strike injury time. It's a point more than most fans thought we would get at 3pm on Saturday.

Spot on.

It's an interesting question, but i think we may have actually won at least one of those with Lallana in the team, although I wouldn't have a clue who to drop. Strange to say it, but I think Guly improves the team. Did I just write that? That can't be right can it?

 

It's a great problem to have.

The flip side of that is that with Lallana there what he isn't is a good defender so we wouldn't have neutralised AOC as well.

The last two games Guly has given the protection to the full back we've missed on the left a lot of the season.

I thought Guly's defensive work was absolutely excellent today, him and Shaw played AOC out of the game.

Oh yeah?

My 6 year old told me (entirely unprompted I might add) that "Guly is rubbish" - out of the mouth of babes as the saying has it. Now if a mere child can see this obvious truth why is it that grown men come on here after every game reciting the same tiresome old tripe about how great he supposedly is?

As for this team being better without Adam Lallana ... well that would be another opinion I can't agree with.

Oh yeah?

 

My 6 year old told me (entirely unprompted I might add) that "Guly is rubbish" - out of the mouth of babes as the saying has it. Now if a mere child can see this obvious truth why is it that grown men come on here after every game reciting the same tiresome old tripe about how great he supposedly is?

 

As for this team being better without Adam Lallana ... well that would be another opinion I can't agree with.

Guly could be he stand out player on the pitch & you'd still not see it as you've nailed your colours to the mast and will not accept anything else other than he's sh,ite.

Its difficult, but yes I agree Turksy, Lallana doesnt track back enough, nor did Ramirez in the wide left position.

Fair play for Adkins to notice this, I said about Guly out wide would work as he balances the flank better, its working. When Lallana is back though, he will start, he gives us a real threat going forward, if I was to choose between one flair player though, Id pick Ramirez through the middle

If we could buy Guly a goal (at the right end) then there could be an argument, but although AL is not prolific he does score a few. Guly is much better defensively. Perhaps a more interesting discussion may be whether we look better with Fonte wearing the armband rather than Adam.

Guly could be he stand out player on the pitch & you'd still not see it as you've nailed your colours to the mast and will not accept anything else other than he's sh,ite.

But Guly does 'stand out' - in the sense that it's outstanding obvious he is not of the quality required to play in the Premier League.

Oh yeah?

 

My 6 year old told me (entirely unprompted I might add) that "Guly is rubbish" - out of the mouth of babes as the saying has it. Now if a mere child can see this obvious truth why is it that grown men come on here after every game reciting the same tiresome old tripe about how great he supposedly is?

 

As for this team being better without Adam Lallana ... well that would be another opinion I can't agree with.

Children copy, so I imagine is the same thing you have said ad infinitum for the last three years, he really isnt rubbish though is he ? He has put in two decent shifts in the past two games, look v good against both Stoke and the arse.

Funny that Lallana gets let off so easily after a mistake, where as Guly gets hung to dry. You only have to look at the pompey game, that Guly failed to jump ? Barely anyone commented that it was Lallanas man who headed that.

Oh yeah?

 

My 6 year old told me (entirely unprompted I might add) that "Guly is rubbish" - out of the mouth of babes as the saying has it. Now if a mere child can see this obvious truth why is it that grown men come on here after every game reciting the same tiresome old tripe about how great he supposedly is?

 

As for this team being better without Adam Lallana ... well that would be another opinion I can't agree with.

get your guly bashing in again.

strange when for the last two games he has improved saints down the left hand side

try getting behind the team instead of trying to find a scapegoat all the time

strange our manager seems to like what he adds to the team.

Children copy, so I imagine is the same thing you have said ad infinitum for the last three years, he really isnt rubbish though is he ? He has put in two decent shifts in the past two games, look v good against both Stoke and the arse.

 

Funny that Lallana gets let off so easily after a mistake, where as Guly gets hung to dry. You only have to look at the pompey game, that Guly failed to jump ? Barely anyone commented that it was Lallanas man who headed that.

As I said, the boys remark came entirely unprompted. Are you saying that a forward player who's goal record for this club (in the last year or so) now amounts to minus one, is your type of player?

But Guly does 'stand out' - in the sense that it's outstanding obvious he is not of the quality required to play in the Premier League.

I'm afraid you just strike me as a totally and utter co.ck so I don't really give a sh.it what you think.

I like Guly and think he's a decent player. However he definitely is no Adam Lallana, since he's been out i've felt that at points we've really missed him. No, imo we're a better team with him than without him

I'm afraid you just strike me as a totally and utter co.ck so I don't really give a sh.it what you think.

A typically sophisticated and well argued reply that does you credit.

After watching us miss out on three points thanks for a stunning 30 yard injury time equaliser at the one of the hardest away grounds in the country and today play very well and keep team that had been banging in the goals down to one shot on target, it got me thinking this.

 

Now I love Lallana as much as any fan and think hes a great player, but since he's been out and Guly has provided us with some much needed tracking back and cover for the full back as well a reasonable attacking threat, we look a solid unit but also still a threat going forward. it's noticeable that in the last two games we've had little threat from the flanks, somewhere we were always vunerbale when AL is playing.

 

As I say, I'm a big Lallana fan and also believe you should play your best players, however as has been proven many times in the past, the best individuals don't always make the best team and we have certainly looked a better team the last two games against good opposition than we have at anytime this season. What do people think?

bit of a silly question as you could say it about anyone whose injured and not playing "oh player a hasn't played for a while that's why we're doing so well" purely coincidental in my opinion

al has his faults mainly trying to be over ambitious and he's not great defensively but he makes us tick and if fit will be on the team sheet

bit of a silly question as you could say it about anyone whose injured and not playing "oh player a hasn't played for a while that's why we're doing so well" purely coincidental in my opinion

 

al has his faults mainly trying to be over ambitious and he's not great defensively but he makes us tick and if fit will be on the team sheet

Not really. Lallana is a bit of a golden boy in some fans eyes, yet we've just put in two good performances against two good sides without him and it's noticeable that as a unit we looked better than we have for some time IMO. It's not just any old player we are talking about.

As I said, the boys remark came entirely unprompted. Are you saying that a forward player who's goal record for this club (in the last year or so) now amounts to minus one, is your type of player?

No I am saying he has picked it up from somewhere, so I expect he heard it from you before.

Guly who scored 11 last year and however many assists ? And now has done ok in the two starts he has had this season ? Yes I am saying I see what he adds to the team, and right now he adds balance.

Lallana is a brilliant player. Coping ok without him, albeit losing a key game against Sunderland, doesn't make us better without him. We haven't won any have we. Guly and Puncheon do fine, but Lallana is a huge step up in class and it's bizarre anyone even questions that.

So you don't think we've looked better defensively with Guly there? I think the support he has given Shaw in the last two games has been excellent. Snuffed out AOC today.

TBH though, as I said before, Lallana's loss was compounded by Gaston playing on the left, we dont miss him half as much when Ramirez is on form, and for that he needs to play through the middle.

TBH though, as I said before, Lallana's loss was compounded by Gaston playing on the left, we dont miss him half as much when Ramirez is on form, and for that he needs to play through the middle.

Yep, agree with that. It seemed odd to lose Lallana then shift our other most creative player into a position where he is less effective. Meaning two changes and not one a losing Ramirez effectiveness at the same time.

But Guly does 'stand out' - in the sense that it's outstanding obvious he is not of the quality required to play in the Premier League.

Agree with this and this is why people go mad for him when he does have a good game, Guly shows sometimes he can be a good player but he wont do it most weeks where as Lallana will and he is younger and just about to hit his peak, for me Guly is a good back up player for us but il rather Lallana start, Guly at the moment is fighting with SDR for the super sub role, i just hope chappers gets a chance to have a game because guly not playing has made him come back a better player and im sure chappers will do the same, and would be nice to have him and either of SDR or Guly on the bench depending on the game bring on the right one.

Are you saying that a forward player who's goal record for this club (in the last year or so) now amounts to minus one, is your type of player?

Yep, agree with that. It seemed odd to lose Lallana then shift our other most creative player into a position where he is less effective. Meaning two changes and not one a losing Ramirez effectiveness at the same time.

Exactly

No I am saying he has picked it up from somewhere, so I expect he heard it from you before.

 

Guly who scored 11 last year and however many assists ? And now has done ok in the two starts he has had this season ? Yes I am saying I see what he adds to the team, and right now he adds balance.

Wrong on both counts.

I have never criticized this (or any other) any Saints player in front of the lad, I save that kind of thing for you lot - you lucky people. As for the reality re his contribution to the team, you are seeing things that just aren't there. In other words your 'king' has no clothes. In this fans opinion Guly do Prado has no place in a Premier League team, and I can only credit our other players for overcoming such a heavy handicap and achieving such a creditable result today.

Minus One.

Agree with this and this is why people go mad for him when he does have a good game, Guly shows sometimes he can be a good player but he wont do it most weeks where as Lallana will and he is younger and just about to hit his peak, for me Guly is a good back up player for us but il rather Lallana start, Guly at the moment is fighting with SDR for the super sub role, i just hope chappers gets a chance to have a game because guly not playing has made him come back a better player and im sure chappers will do the same, and would be nice to have him and either of SDR or Guly on the bench depending on the game bring on the right one.

Ryan Dickson as well and Jonno, bring them back as not playing would have made them better.

out if interest how many times has he actually played up front in the last year?

Oh I'm quite sure you are capable of looking that up for yourself. Please tell me if you are satisfied with this players Minus One goal tally?

Ive always rated Guly's defensive work but before he got injured Lallana was also stepping up and doing a lot more tracking back. IMO its one of the less appreciated reasons behind our recent improvement.

This thread is about Lallana but the word 'GULY' features 46 x

Are some people obsessed with Guly?

Guly could be he stand out player on the pitch & you'd still not see it as you've nailed your colours to the mast and will not accept anything else other than he's sh,ite.

Sums up a few around near where I sit

We do look stronger at the back without him but look weaker going forward.

Overall I think I agree with this POV.

Wrong on both counts.

 

I have never criticized this (or any other) any Saints player in front of the lad, I save that kind of thing for you lot - you lucky people. As for the reality re his contribution to the team, you are seeing things that just aren't there. In other words your 'king' has no clothes. In this fans opinion Guly do Prado has no place in a Premier League team, and I can only credit our other players for overcoming such a heavy handicap and achieving such a creditable result today.

 

Minus One.

Im not saying he should start every game, Im just saying that some of us are able to make our own reasoned opinion up, where as others are carried away by the lynch mob, ignoring the good to concentrate on the bad. I didnt see Guly do much wrong today, he was entitled to go for that ball, after all if he hadnt Im sure you would be part of the crowd moaning that he should have done more to prevent LK from tapping in.

He was a large part last year, goals and assists and has balanced the front four so far, covering for adam and allowing GR to play in his better position.

Perhaps its time to lay your prejudices to one side and take every performance on its own merit ? He isnt going to set the world alight but certainly he looked decent today. Im sure your capable to make your own mind up Chapel, Ill even help you down of that horse if you like

Im not saying he should start every game, Im just saying that some of us are able to make our own reasoned opinion up, where as others are carried away by the lynch mob, ignoring the good to concentrate on the bad. I didnt see Guly do much wrong today, he was entitled to go for that ball, after all if he hadnt Im sure you would be part of the crowd moaning that he should have done more to prevent LK from tapping in.

 

He was a large part last year, goals and assists and has balanced the front four so far, covering for adam and allowing GR to play in his better position.

 

Perhaps its time to lay your prejudices to one side and take every performance on its own merit ? He isnt going to set the world alight but certainly he looked decent today. Im sure your capable to make your own mind up Chapel, Ill even help you down of that horse if you like

I see so you consider those who don't happen to rate this player must be prejudiced?

Can you expand on this argument and provide some/any actual evidence to support this serious allegation?

I see so you consider those who don't happen to rate this player must be prejudiced?

 

Can you expand on this argument and provide some/any actual evidence to support this serious allegation?

Apart from what was already stated you mean ?

For a start going back to the comments that he has contributed nothing in the last year despite two decent performances, one last week that some said should have won him MOM and arguably if he had finished that chance then he should have ( a chance that if Lallana or Lambert had missed it then people would fall over themselves to excuse)

Or last season, scoring 11 and however many assists to help us gain promotion ?

No idea how I have come to the conclusion that I believe you are blinded from his positives as you are prejudiced by a judgement that he is not good enough

Apart from what was already stated you mean ?

 

For a start going back to the comments that he has contributed nothing in the last year despite two decent performances, one last week that some said should have won him MOM and arguably if he had finished that chance then he should have ( a chance that if Lallana or Lambert had missed it then people would fall over themselves to excuse)

 

Or last season, scoring 11 and however many assists to help us gain promotion ?

 

No idea how I have come to the conclusion that I believe you are blinded from his positives as you are prejudiced by a judgement that he is not good enough

So in summery, should another fan dare to express an opinion about a player that differs from yours, you can see no possibly, other than prejudice, to explain this anomaly. Do you entirely dismiss the idea that fans can sometimes disagree about players in good faith?

You have quite a high opinion of yourself don't you?

We are not better without Lallana.

BUT, Guly and Shaw has really built a good alternative on our left side the two last games. Seems to understand and trust each other in passing, overlapping etc.

So in summery, should another fan dare to express an opinion about a player that differs from yours, you can see no possibly, other than prejudice, to explain this anomaly. Do you entirely dismiss the idea that fans can sometimes disagree about players in good faith?

 

You have quite a high opinion of yourself don't you?

What did you think of his performance today?

What did you think of his performance today?

I wasn't impressed - what do you think?

It's not so much that we are better side without Lallana - we are just a more balanced side when only play 2 out of the attacking 3 of Ramirez, Lallana and Puncheon.

Just like we are a much better side when we play Lambert behind another striker - and let him drop deep and go wide to collect the ball and link the play - and attack the fullbacks at the back post.