View Poll Results: Saints Web Definitely Not Official Second Referendum

Voters
158. You may not vote on this poll
  • Leave Before - Leave Now

    35 22.15%
  • Leave Before - Remain Now

    8 5.06%
  • Leave Before - Not Bothered Now

    2 1.27%
  • Remain Before - Remain Now

    88 55.70%
  • Remain Before - Leave Now

    6 3.80%
  • Remain Before - Not Bothered Now

    0 0%
  • Not Bothered Before - Leave Now

    3 1.90%
  • Not Bothered Before - Remain Now

    4 2.53%
  • I've never been bothered - Why am I on this Thread?

    2 1.27%
  • No second Ref - 2016 was Definitive and Binding

    10 6.33%
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Thread: Brexit - Enter at Your Own Risk

  1. #15651

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldNick View Post
    whats the garden gnomes thing about????
    It's Gavyn's little joke, but gullible Tamesaint believes it to be true. He's a fine one to mock, running his whelk stall.

  2. #15652

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tamesaint View Post
    They don't have internet where Les goes on "business" with his garden gnomes. That is why periodically he goes silent on this thread and is nothing to do with him not bring able to answer questions posed to him by Shurlock.
    Tut, tut. Who would have thought our resident spelling bee would make such a mistake. To be fair, the wrong word is spelt correctly but I guess that's more by chance than design.

  3. #15653

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    The commons has now overturned all five of the amendments the Lords attempted to place on the Withdrawal Agreement Bill. Now let's see if they wish to continue with the Parliamentary ping-pong, or whether they will realise that it is a futile gesture.

  4. #15654

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    Trade tensions erupt between London and Washington

    UK chancellor says EU deal the priority but US warns of car tariffs in tech tax row
    https://www.ft.com/content/9c8c232e-...a-bae547046735

    Taking back control to get pushed around by the US. Some special relationship - that’s for the birds and chumps

  5. Default


    Taking back control to get pushed around by the US. Some special relationship - that’s for the birds and chumps
    We've being doing that since the cold war, our only "power" in the world is that we are somehow still a member of the UN permanent security council, which given that virtually all our industries are foreign owned and our remaining armed forces would struggle to defend our six yard box counts for very little. For the govt to say we can't apply our tax laws properly because it would upset Trump and his corrupt cronies shows how far this country has declined, and indicates a very sinister and cynical nature of the world today.
    At least we have football to distract us from such trivialities....

  6. #15656

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    Quote Originally Posted by shurlock View Post
    https://www.ft.com/content/9c8c232e-...a-bae547046735

    Taking back control to get pushed around by the US. Some special relationship - that’s for the birds and chumps
    Do you believe it hasn't always been like that? You only have to look to the Suez crisis to see the relationship has never really been that close. Best the devil you know

  7. #15657

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Tender View Post
    It's Gavyn's little joke, but gullible Tamesaint believes it to be true. He's a fine one to mock, running his whelk stall.
    It wouldn't matter to me if you sold gnomes for a living. Any legal business is honourable IMO. Its tough running a business in this climate, especially retailing. Hats off to all our fellow self employed businesses

  8. #15658

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldNick View Post
    It wouldn't matter to me if you sold gnomes for a living. Any legal business is honourable IMO. Its tough running a business in this climate, especially retailing. Hats off to all our fellow self employed businesses
    I agree, small businesses are the backbone of our economy, so it says a lot about Gavyn that he is so disparagingly contemptuous about them. I read an interesting article this morning and this bit in particular reminded me very much of our Gavyn:-

    People who want to leave the EU seem on the whole to have a passable understanding of why the UK applied to join it in the 1960s and 1970s, and why some still want us to stay in it today. They recognise their opponents’ arguments as rational, even if fallible. On the other hand folks who want to stay in the EU seem unable to engage in debate on the same level.

    The Remain commentariat (media, interested professionals, politicians, multinational businesses and other vested interests) when faced with arguments for leaving, do not seek to meet or rebut them, but instead take refuge in personal disdain and abuse. When they are not deriding “swivel-eyed headbangers” or even (to quote a former Prime Minister) “fruitcakes, loonies and closet racists”, they are denouncing the majority of voters as “extremists”. Their strategy is apparently to avoid any possibility of serious argument getting on its feet and the strategy reaches a sort of culmination in the claim that when the majority voted to Leave, that fact alone demonstrates that they did not understand the issues, for which reason alone their votes ought to be discounted. That strategy makes reasoned debate impossible because one side rules out reason a priori.
    I suspect that to a large extent, this arrogance has led to a feeling among the electorate of us against them, the people against the establishment liberal elite. Their arrogance and threats of project fear helped the leave vote to win the referendum. Their subsequent shenanigans over the past three and a half years since, have ultimately culminated in a huge majority for the main political party pledged to deliver Brexit. The remoaners are now a busted flush, powerless to change the outcome of events that were brought about partly by their own doing. It must be extremely irksome to them that they have been outmanoeuvred by those that they consider to be their inferiors.

  9. #15659

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Tender View Post
    I agree, small businesses are the backbone of our economy,
    I see.

    So when you claimed that I ran a whelk stall , you were in fact complimenting me.

    Thanks for the compliment but I don't need those from people like you.

  10. #15660

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    The Withdrawal Agreement Bill has been granted Royal Assent. That was all plain sailing. A week tomorrow at 11pm and we're out. How is everybody on here planning to celebrate our freedom?

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    Oh dear

  12. #15662

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    punters who could be arsed to vote voted out!! we've been the ancient mariner for three years now get it done, then we will find out just how much **** we are in, or not.

  13. #15663

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  14. #15664

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Tender View Post
    The Withdrawal Agreement Bill has been granted Royal Assent. That was all plain sailing. A week tomorrow at 11pm and we're out. How is everybody on here planning to celebrate our freedom?
    By raising the European Union flag, high and proud.

  15. #15665

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    Quote Originally Posted by badgerx16 View Post
    By raising the European Union flag, high and proud.
    Don't reply to him. He is trolling now and is getting off on each reply sent to him.

    Let him continue his little ****fest by himself.

  16. Default

    “Government is failing to honour centuries-old convention by blocking my peerage.” John Bercow in tomorrow’s Times


    ‘I am not in the business of invoking precedent, nor am I under any obligation to do so. If we were guided only by precedent, nothing would ever change.’ John Bercow during Brexit debate prior to election.





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  17. #15667

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tamesaint View Post
    Don't reply to him. He is trolling now and is getting off on each reply sent to him.

    Let him continue his little ****fest by himself.
    Unfortunately I am going to have to spend some time next week with my son's father-in-law. He is a fervent Brexit tw_at, and is proudly telling everybody he finds within earshot about the bunting he is going to put up. ( He is one of the most miserable and boring people I have ever met, and provides the template for my visualisation of a few posters on here ).

  18. #15668

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    Quote Originally Posted by badgerx16 View Post
    Unfortunately I am going to have to spend some time next week with my son's father-in-law. He is a fervent Brexit tw_at, and is proudly telling everybody he finds within earshot about the bunting he is going to put up. ( He is one of the most miserable and boring people I have ever met, and provides the template for my visualisation of a few posters on here ).
    I feel your pain. Fortunately I am out of the country until 2 February so will hopefully miss next week's Gammon party.

  19. #15669

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    Quote Originally Posted by badgerx16 View Post
    Unfortunately I am going to have to spend some time next week with my son's father-in-law. He is a fervent Brexit tw_at, and is proudly telling everybody he finds within earshot about the bunting he is going to put up. ( He is one of the most miserable and boring people I have ever met, and provides the template for my visualisation of a few posters on here ).
    Can you not take your European Union flag with you?

  20. #15670

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    Quote Originally Posted by mickn View Post
    Can you not take your European Union flag with you?
    My wife says we should be playing the "Ode to Joy" on a loop, and spend the day conversing in French and German.

  21. #15671

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Tender View Post
    The Withdrawal Agreement Bill has been granted Royal Assent. That was all plain sailing. A week tomorrow at 11pm and we're out. How is everybody on here planning to celebrate our freedom?
    Umm, nothing? Because I am neither impotent nor a virgin.

  22. #15672

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    https://order-order.com/2020/01/23/e...ompleted-year/

    It appears that a trade deal with the EU before the end of December is a viable possibility after all, as could a trade deal with Japan. Japan was cool on the idea of a trade deal a few months ago, but now they are keen to do a deal as quickly as possible, potentially by the Autumn. What a difference it makes having a government with a stonking great majority and the clarity of purpose that it brings to negotiations.

  23. #15673

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Tender View Post
    https://order-order.com/2020/01/23/e...ompleted-year/

    It appears that a trade deal with the EU before the end of December is a viable possibility after all, as could a trade deal with Japan. Japan was cool on the idea of a trade deal a few months ago, but now they are keen to do a deal as quickly as possible, potentially by the Autumn. What a difference it makes having a government with a stonking great majority and the clarity of purpose that it brings to negotiations.
    Of course, a bare-bones FTA is available if the UK signs up to EU demands on fishing and a level playing field. Have you been following the news? Obviously not.

  24. #15674

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    Quote Originally Posted by shurlock View Post
    Of course, a bare-bones FTA is available if the UK signs up to EU demands on fishing and a level playing field. Have you been following the news? Obviously not.
    How was Davos? I've been following it avidly, Gavyn, old China. What I've been reading of late tells me that fishing and the level playing field aren't on the table our end. The bare-bones trade deal was what was on offer under those circumstances. The EU sabre-rattling says that the closer the alignment, the better the deal, but if no SM, no CU, no ECJ, no alignment, no fisheries means a bare-bones deal or no deal, then I expect that we are quite content with that. The EU maintain that they will not give as good a deal to us as they did to Canada and S Korea. Are you gullible enough to believe everything they say as gospel?

  25. #15675

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    Quote Originally Posted by badgerx16 View Post
    My wife says we should be playing the "Ode to Joy" on a loop, and spend the day conversing in French and German.
    She sounds like a bundle of laughs

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Tender View Post
    How was Davos? I've been following it avidly, Gavyn, old China. What I've been reading of late tells me that fishing and the level playing field aren't on the table our end. The bare-bones trade deal was what was on offer under those circumstances. The EU sabre-rattling says that the closer the alignment, the better the deal, but if no SM, no CU, no ECJ, no alignment, no fisheries means a bare-bones deal or no deal, then I expect that we are quite content with that. The EU maintain that they will not give as good a deal to us as they did to Canada and S Korea. Are you gullible enough to believe everything they say as gospel?
    No Les - you’re getting confused again. It doesn’t mean a bare bones FTA (as in zero tariffs, zero quotas) or no deal. It means no deal.
    Last edited by shurlock; 24-01-2020 at 02:34 PM.

  27. #15677

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    Quote Originally Posted by shurlock View Post
    No Les - you’re getting confused again. It doesn’t mean a bare bones deal or no deal. It means no deal.
    I'm not confused at all, Gavyn, you are. It appears that you are stuck in some sort of time-warp whereby you haven't realised that May and Robbins are no longer in charge of our negotiations and that we are no longer still tied by Benn's Surrender Bill to accept any deal the EU offers us, no matter how bad it might be. If the EU believe that all they have to do is procrastinate until the end of July and expect us to ask for an extension to the WA, then they are in for a nasty shock. Ditto if they believe that we would not be prepared to leave on WTO terms if the deal they propose is not acceptable to us.

  28. #15678

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Tender View Post
    I'm not confused at all, Gavyn, you are.
    You would be better off spending the afternoon banging your head against a wall at home than try and engage in any sort of debate with our resident South African - not like those guys to accept anyone else's opinion on anything!

  29. #15679

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    Quote Originally Posted by Weston Super Saint View Post
    You would be better off spending the afternoon banging your head against a wall at home than try and engage in any sort of debate with our resident South African - not like those guys to accept anyone else's opinion on anything!
    I'm happy for him to provide a string of predictions as to how the Brexit thing will pan out, WSS. I expect to have a good laugh at him when he has egg all over his face when it doesn't come to pass, just as I expect that he was probably for us joining the Eurozone too. Also just as we will not be entering into a Norway style deal with the EU as forecast by Buctootim, who bet £50 on it three plus years ago. Where has he disappeared to lately?

  30. #15680

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Tender View Post
    I'm happy for him to provide a string of predictions as to how the Brexit thing will pan out, WSS. I expect to have a good laugh at him when he has egg all over his face when it doesn't come to pass, just as I expect that he was probably for us joining the Eurozone too. Also just as we will not be entering into a Norway style deal with the EU as forecast by Buctootim, who bet £50 on it three plus years ago. Where has he disappeared to lately?
    Where’s all the fighting talk about securing the exact same benefits of membership without the obligations? Or at least some significant asymmetry in favour of the UK given it’s indispensability to the EU. All that leverage and all that the UK can secure is a threadbare zero tariff zero quota FTA if it sticks to its red lines. Sounds like you’ve finally woken up and realised that divergence comes with matching costs. There is no cake. It’s taken an embarrassingly long time which reflects poorly on your judgement but better late than never Les.
    Last edited by shurlock; 24-01-2020 at 04:14 PM.

  31. #15681

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    Quote Originally Posted by shurlock View Post
    Where’s all the fighting talk about securing the exact same benefits of membership without the obligations? Or at least some significant asymmetry in favour of the UK given it’s indispensability to the EU. All that leverage and all that the UK can secure is a threadbare zero tariff zero quota FTA if it sticks to its red lines. Sounds like you’ve finally woken up and realised that divergence comes with matching costs. There is no cake. It’s taken an embarrassingly long time which reflects poorly on your judgement but better late than never Les.
    I'm entirely content with the state of play at the moment, Gavyn. We're out of the EU at 11pm next Friday, so I'll probably have a bit of a hangover next Saturday from an excess of bubbly during celebrations. You've come out with a load of project fear drivel ever since before the referendum and very little of it has come to pass, so excuse me if I ignore a lot of what you will be coming out with in the next few months. I'm on the right side of history with the Brexiteers on the question of terminating our membership of the EU, you remoaners aren't, so again, it's probably not a very astute position for you to take on other peoples' judgement, Gavyn. When you talk about a threadbare zero tariff, zero quota FTA, you mean one that allows us to control our immigration, fix up our own trade deals around the world, stop having to pay billions into the EU coffers, the cessation of our laws being subjugated to EU laws, regaining control of our own coastal waters? Only that, eh, Gavyn? It looks like a pretty mouthwatering cake to me.

  32. #15682

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Tender View Post
    The Withdrawal Agreement Bill has been granted Royal Assent. That was all plain sailing. A week tomorrow at 11pm and we're out. How is everybody on here planning to celebrate our freedom?
    You will not be surprised to hear that I, along with roughly half the population, won't be celebrating. Why would anyone celebrate a national disaster and the start of inflation, recession, the death of the NHS, breakup of the UK, worsening of living conditions and restriction of movement?

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  33. #15683

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shroppie View Post
    You will not be surprised to hear that I, along with roughly half the population, won't be celebrating. Why would anyone celebrate a national disaster and the start of inflation, recession, the death of the NHS, breakup of the UK, worsening of living conditions and restriction of movement?

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    You forgot the plague of locusts, death of the firstborn, the four horsemen of the Apocalypse. Get a grip, man.

  34. #15684

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Tender View Post
    You forgot the plague of locusts, death of the firstborn, the four horsemen of the Apocalypse. Get a grip, man.
    All those too.

    Although it's little compensation, I will get some satisfaction from the realisation that "Project Fear" was a name invented by Brexiteers to discredit painful truths and pretend there was nothing to worry about.

    It's started already.

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  35. #15685

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    Quote Originally Posted by Weston Super Saint View Post
    She sounds like a bundle of laughs
    She is certainly more so than any Brexit voter.

  36. #15686

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    Quote Originally Posted by badgerx16 View Post
    She is certainly more so than any Brexit voter.
    Have you met all 17 million personally then? Impressive.

  37. #15687

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    Quote Originally Posted by hypochondriac View Post
    Have you met all 17 million personally then? Impressive.
    I feel I have. Or at least heard the same meaningless soundbites from all of them.

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  38. Default

    Well whatever happens we can blame Camerons sphincter giving way during the rise of UKIP. If anything the Brexit saga has shown just how out of touch politicians are with the masses, DC never imagined in his wildest nightmares that the people would vote to leave (neither did Boris), but like it or not that was the case.
    I think referendums have proven too divisive to be used again in their current format, like the Scottish issue the result was close and virtually split the voters down the middle give or take a couple of %.
    The question for me is that will the result really make a difference to the issues that people voted on (mainly immigration, lets face it)...? Will we see curly cucumbers in our supermarkets again, will the 47 EU directives on the humble teaspoon be revised. I sincerely hope so.

  39. #15689

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shroppie View Post
    I feel I have. Or at least heard the same meaningless soundbites from all of them.

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    Nice. So it's the broad brushstrokes technique then.

  40. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Tender View Post
    The Withdrawal Agreement Bill has been granted Royal Assent. That was all plain sailing. A week tomorrow at 11pm and we're out. How is everybody on here planning to celebrate our freedom?
    I shall be raising a glass to the people that made it happen, the people who ensured this glorious day happened.

    Gina Miller, who ensured Theresa May’s BRINO was subject to a meaningful vote and couldn’t bypass parliament.

    John Bercow for showing us voters in a clear and precise way how the establishment were trying to ignore the people.

    For Dominic Grievence, Rory Stewart, Ken Clarke, Fatty Soames, Gauke, Hammond & the other “rebels”, for allowing Boris to unite the party and make it electable, by kicking their sorry arses out.

    But finally, the really special person, without who we’d still be stuck with a Tory government with a majority of -42. Still stuck with a remain parliament deluding themselves that the people had changed their minds. Still stuck hearing cries for a second referendum. The one & only Jo Swinson. Because her decision to back a GE is the only reason it’s happening.

    Heroes to the Brexit movement , I salute you all.....


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  41. #15691

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Tender View Post
    I'm happy for him to provide a string of predictions as to how the Brexit thing will pan out, WSS.
    That's never going to happen! He's an 'Economist' so any predictions will be about as vague as the weatherman forecasting 'weather'.

  42. #15692

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Tender View Post
    I'm entirely content with the state of play at the moment, Gavyn. We're out of the EU at 11pm next Friday, so I'll probably have a bit of a hangover next Saturday from an excess of bubbly during celebrations. You've come out with a load of project fear drivel ever since before the referendum and very little of it has come to pass, so excuse me if I ignore a lot of what you will be coming out with in the next few months. I'm on the right side of history with the Brexiteers on the question of terminating our membership of the EU, you remoaners aren't, so again, it's probably not a very astute position for you to take on other peoples' judgement, Gavyn. When you talk about a threadbare zero tariff, zero quota FTA, you mean one that allows us to control our immigration, fix up our own trade deals around the world, stop having to pay billions into the EU coffers, the cessation of our laws being subjugated to EU laws, regaining control of our own coastal waters? Only that, eh, Gavyn? It looks like a pretty mouthwatering cake to me.
    Utterly deluded. I'm sticking to football discussions.

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  43. #15693

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Tender View Post
    I'll probably have a bit of a hangover next Saturday from an excess of bubbly during celebrations.
    DRIVEL ALERT

    God only knows the bile and drivel that Les will come up with next Saturday morning. He is bad enough at the best of times.

    Clearly no garden gnome sales next Saturday.

  44. #15694

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shroppie View Post
    Utterly deluded. I'm sticking to football discussions.

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    You are, so it's a good idea.

  45. #15695

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tamesaint View Post
    DRIVEL ALERT

    God only knows the bile and drivel that Les will come up with next Saturday morning. He is bad enough at the best of times.

    Clearly no garden gnome sales next Saturday.
    As I've told you many times before, sonny, you don't have to read it. Just put me on ignore. (ps I don't work Saturdays).

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    1 week to go.

    I reckon one or two will get a bit more spiteful in their defeat.


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    I can’t believe this thread is still going. Seems like it’s just to throw insults too and frow?

  48. #15698

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Tender View Post
    As I've told you many times before, sonny, you don't have to read it. Just put me on ignore. (ps I don't work Saturdays).
    You must be going senile grandad. You have suggested ignore just once. I find your posts amusing and fascinating in a morbid , head shaking way . How would I get my laughs if I had you on ignore?

    From the amount you write on here, I doubt if you work on any day of the week. "Why use a sentence when I can use a paragraph" seems to be your motto.

  49. #15699

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    Quote Originally Posted by Batman View Post
    1 week to go.

    I reckon one or two will get a bit more spiteful in their defeat.

    As opposed to those that will get more hateful in their victory ?

    Nobody knows how things will look in 5 years time. If those with a positive outlook are proved right, all well and good. However, if the more negatively inclined are found to have been even partially correct, they wont even be able to fully enjoy their schadenfreude.

  50. #15700

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    Quote Originally Posted by badgerx16 View Post
    As opposed to those that will get more hateful in their victory ?

    Nobody knows how things will look in 5 years time. If those with a positive outlook are proved right, all well and good. However, if the more negatively inclined are found to have been even partially correct, they wont even be able to fully enjoy their schadenfreude.
    you could have fooled me with the project fear predictions

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