Jack Stephens

I would really like to see Stephens and Hoedt mature and grow together as a pair, If one of them can cultivate a bit more aggression and both work on their upper body strength in a couple of years they COULD be a formidable partnership imo!

For a moment I read that as “grow a pair”

I would really like to see Stephens and Hoedt mature and grow together as a pair, If one of them can cultivate a bit more aggression and both work on their upper body strength in a couple of years they COULD be a formidable partnership imo!

Well said

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I would really like to see Stephens and Hoedt mature and grow together as a pair, If one of them can cultivate a bit more aggression and both work on their upper body strength in a couple of years they COULD be a formidable partnership imo!

I'm not sure we can risk going into next season with that approach. Stephens is consistently losing his man and its costing us goals. He has the potential to be very good but I'm concerned at the moment. We look vulnerable

He seems strangely better in the air attacking the opposition goal than defending our goal in the air...

I'm not sure we can risk going into next season with that approach. Stephens is consistently losing his man and its costing us goals. He has the potential to be very good but I'm concerned at the moment. We look vulnerable

Think both Stephens and Hoedt would excel playing alongside a more experienced, and stronger CB, but together they lack both experience and strength. Both are beaten, intimidated by a stronger CF,added to which JS loses his man all too easy, and Hoedt often fails to stay on his feet.

He seems strangely better in the air attacking the opposition goal than defending our goal in the air...

In our box he spends his time concentrating on the opposition player rather than attacking the ball like he does up the other end !

Think both Stephens and Hoedt would excel playing alongside a more experienced, and stronger CB, but together they lack both experience and strength. Both are beaten, intimidated by a stronger CF,added to which JS loses his man all too easy, and Hoedt often fails to stay on his feet.

I think they are very similar players both are decent with the ball at their feet, reasonably quick, decent range of passing and like to bring the ball out from the back. Both don't always read the game well and look a little suspect on the defensive side of the game. A better balance would be to pair one of them (or both if you want to go three at the back) with a big horrible lump of a CB who is good in the air.

Stephens REALLY needs to work on his man marking skills and aerial ability. Two factors that have seen him make some bad mistakes that have lead to goals. If it was Yoshida, he'd have been hammered. At this moment in time, i'd rather see Yoshida given a chance next to Hoedt.

One things for sure, yet again, like nearly every window we need a CB!!

https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/aerial_won

Stephens: 14 matches, Aerial Battles Won 23/45 (51%), Duels Won 64/109 (59%)

Hoedt: 16 matches, Aerial Battles Won 24/58 (41%), Duels Won 76/136 (56%)

VVD: 13 matches, Aerial Battles Won 70/94 (74%), Duels Won 96/132 (73%)

Yoshida: 18 matches, Aerial Battles Won 49/81 (60%), Duels Won 81/139 (58%)

Bertrand: 23 matches, Aerial Battles Won 30/67 (45%), Duels Won 99/196 (51%)

Cedric: 20 matches, Aerial Battles Won 22/63 (35%), Duels Won 70/144 (49%)

That's damning. There's a big VVD shaped hole in our defence. Wasn't winning aerial duels meant to be Hoedt's strength? Our back 4 leaves a lot to be desired.

It;s not our back 4 that is the main problem. Having a woeful front line has cost us for the last 18-24 months....and its criminal that was not rectified last year let alone this year.

Some real miserable sods around.......we won, STephens was excellent and scored again and (outside of this forum) he is very highly regarded. But our forum experts know best.

Pathetic

Stephens was a bit of a powder puff on that corner to be honest, but he made amends with an excellent goal. Fans shouldn't be too harsh on him, he is contributing well to the team.

Stephens was a bit of a powder puff on that corner to be honest, but he made amends with an excellent goal. Fans shouldn't be too harsh on him, he is contributing well to the team.

For me Jack Stephens goals are certainly a welcome bonus but he is in the team to dominate the strikers and defend his own box properly. He did neither of those yesterday. He got completely bullied by Hegazi and was then remonstarting with the referee as if he had been fouled, he wasn't he was just soft. He then also got turned inside out by Sturridge who then wasted his shot on goal by blasing over. I like Stephens a lot but he has to improve and quickly particularly at defending his own penalty area. If he isn't up to it then we need to sign a dominant centre half this summer and then Hoet and Stephens will be competing for the other place in the team. It's up to Jack he has to win more headers and also toughen up.

In our box he spends his time concentrating on the opposition player rather than attacking the ball like he does up the other end !

Exactly this.

He has improved. Last season he went chasing after everything instead of sticking to his man. Now he tries to hang on to him but still gets beaten.

I like Stephens, I like his attitude and his youthful enthusiasm especially in celebrating when he scores, he needs to learn to mark better and get stronger in the air. I saw him play very well as a defensive midfielder at Swindon a couple of years ago and he impressed in that position, I can see him playing in that position again one day but for now lets hope he can remove some of the mistakes from his game, will be great to have him and Ward-prowse as academy graduates in the starting line up.

https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/aerial_won

 

Stephens: 14 matches, Aerial Battles Won 23/45 (51%), Duels Won 64/109 (59%)

Hoedt: 16 matches, Aerial Battles Won 24/58 (41%), Duels Won 76/136 (56%)

VVD: 13 matches, Aerial Battles Won 70/94 (74%), Duels Won 96/132 (73%)

Yoshida: 18 matches, Aerial Battles Won 49/81 (60%), Duels Won 81/139 (58%)

Bertrand: 23 matches, Aerial Battles Won 30/67 (45%), Duels Won 99/196 (51%)

Cedric: 20 matches, Aerial Battles Won 22/63 (35%), Duels Won 70/144 (49%)

 

That's damning. There's a big VVD shaped hole in our defence. Wasn't winning aerial duels meant to be Hoedt's strength? Our back 4 leaves a lot to be desired.

what a very useful post that is. Pretty much since Jhardi put on a Saints shirt we have been fantastic against the arial ball. We struggled a little bit when Yoshida first came into the side, he was far too nice and was often bullied. He improved, but has always lacked the size to win headers that he cant get a running jump to. Hoedt and Stephens are the same as Yoshid when he started...too nice, and lacking that physical advantage over their rivals. As footballers they are as good as anyone on the ball. They could probably run a game from midfield in the championship, they are that good, but without a ball winner we are always going to concede goals. The full backs don't help and we miss Pelle and Wanyama defensivley.

Think both Stephens and Hoedt would excel playing alongside a more experienced, and stronger CB, but together they lack both experience and strength. Both are beaten, intimidated by a stronger CF,added to which JS loses his man all too easy, and Hoedt often fails to stay on his feet.

In a nutshell.

Exactly this.

 

He has improved. Last season he went chasing after everything instead of sticking to his man. Now he tries to hang on to him but still gets beaten.

I dunno. He still has a massive tendency to wander towards the ball and ignore the person he is tracking. Exhibit A, that Sturridge half chance yesterday.

It;s not our back 4 that is the main problem. Having a woeful front line has cost us for the last 18-24 months....and its criminal that was not rectified last year let alone this year.

 

Some real miserable sods around.......we won, STephens was excellent and scored again and (outside of this forum) he is very highly regarded. But our forum experts know best.

 

Pathetic

The back 4 is a bit of a problem. We hardly ever (seriously, go check our results) keep a clean sheet in the league.

Forster was a big problem at the start of this season. If you have no confidence in the man between the sticks......

Jack had his shirt pulled and got twisted around for that goal, not bullied, fouled anywhere else on the pitch a foul but for some reason not in the box. Bizarre.

Jack had his shirt pulled and got twisted around for that goal, not bullied, fouled anywhere else on the pitch a foul but for some reason not in the box. Bizarre.

Just admit it, he regularly gets bullied aerially.

He has to improve physically, but he can only do that at the rate his body will allow. Some people mature faster than others.

He is a good footballer though, and his reading of the game is improving the more he plays. I'm for sticking with him. He will learn from his mistakes, I'm sure; And occasionally benefit form being taken out of the firing line. But not right now.

He has to improve physically, but he can only do that at the rate his body will allow. Some people mature faster than others.

 

He is a good footballer though, and his reading of the game is improving the more he plays. I'm for sticking with him. He will learn from his mistakes, I'm sure; And occasionally benefit form being taken out of the firing line. But not right now.

Ditto

He has to improve physically, but he can only do that at the rate his body will allow. Some people mature faster than others.

 

He is a good footballer though, and his reading of the game is improving the more he plays. I'm for sticking with him. He will learn from his mistakes, I'm sure; And occasionally benefit form being taken out of the firing line. But not right now.

He is 24 I think he has probably matured, physically, as much he is going to

he clearly has the attributes.

just as he is a threat when we have corners to attack.

can only be concentration, surely

Poor marking for their goal, but i find myself asking whether we are matching him up against the correct players. Hegazi is bigger, stronger and taller than Stephens and I wonder if Hoedt or Carillo would have been a better match from a corner. Just because he is a CB doesn't mean he should be the one man marking their biggest aerial threat from set peices.

However! He is excellent on the ground and comfortable on the ball, his strength and experience will increase with time and I think we will reap the benefits if we stick with him. 24 is still 2-3 year off of a center backs peak, he could become one hell of a player. Also showed leadership qualities in his handling of Boufal for JWP's free kick.

Maybe a front sweeper role against Liverpool?

I dunno. He still has a massive tendency to wander towards the ball and ignore the person he is tracking. Exhibit A, that Sturridge half chance yesterday.

Fair enough. I’ve been away a lot and missed quite a few games this season.

So he is still chasing rabbits then.

Jack had his shirt pulled and got twisted around for that goal, not bullied, fouled anywhere else on the pitch a foul but for some reason not in the box. Bizarre.

Six of one and a half dozen of the other from what I’ve read. Be thankful he didn’t concede a penalty.

If you were a scout for an upcoming opponent you would watch Saints and quickly identify Stephens as a big weakness defensively: from crosses in open play and from set pieces.

If he wants a long career as a CB he will have to work on that.

(On the WBA forum he got a few mentions as being an obvious weakness that they failed to exploit enough).

Hoedt's aerial numbers are really strange:

2014-15 (AZ)

86/121 - 71%

2015-16 (Lazio)

34/67 - 51%

2016-17 (Lazio)

53/63 - 84%

2017-18 (Saints)

24/58 - 41%

Maybe he needs a season to get adjusted? Or he is very good one season and crap the next? His numbers are all over the place.

Hoedt's aerial numbers are really strange:

 

2014-15 (AZ)

86/121 - 71%

2015-16 (Lazio)

34/67 - 51%

2016-17 (Lazio)

53/63 - 84%

2017-18 (Saints)

24/58 - 41%

 

Maybe he needs a season to get adjusted? Or he is very good one season and crap the next? His numbers are all over the place.

Yeah, he hasn't struck me as the big commanding aerial presence I expected.

He is 24 I think he has probably matured, physically, as much he is going to

Respectfully, I disagree.

Respectfully, I disagree.

So do I. He still looks pretty scrawny to me for a centre-back.

Respectfully, I disagree.

I await him putting on a couple of extra inches in height soon then..

I await him putting on a couple of extra inches in height soon then..

I await him putting on a couple of extra inches in height soon then..

He's as tall as, or taller than 80% of the CBs in this league. What he lacks is his "man" body as Hoddle called it. You can work out in the gym and put on bulk, without really improving strength. That strength will develop over time.

Kind of weird Saints fans singing that he is "one of our own"

He isn't.

What he lacks is his "man" body as Hoddle called it.

Good grief! The thought of Hoddle inspecting young players checking to see if they had a 'man' body. I think I just puked a bit.

Interesting thread. I think he's got a lot of potential and I think he's developing well. I'd stick with him.

I imagine just about every other Prem League team's fans are having similar discussions about the weaknesses of their defence. I can't think of too many defences that are really solid.

Hoedt's aerial numbers are really strange:

 

2014-15 (AZ)

86/121 - 71%

2015-16 (Lazio)

34/67 - 51%

2016-17 (Lazio)

53/63 - 84%

2017-18 (Saints)

24/58 - 41%

 

Maybe he needs a season to get adjusted? Or he is very good one season and crap the next? His numbers are all over the place.

That may have something to do with where the high balls are delivered from. It's very different coming onto and heading a ball that's played up from the back as opposed to balls that are whipped in from wide areas. I also think the quality of delivery in the Prem is better than Italy.

Kind of weird Saints fans singing that he is "one of our own"

 

 

He isn't.

I heard this in the Northam on Weds night, after he scored. Face palm moment.

Kind of weird Saints fans singing that he is "one of our own"

 

 

He isn't.

He's as much one of our own as Kane is Spurs !?

Kind of weird Saints fans singing that he is "one of our own"

 

 

He isn't.

He's as much one of our own as Kane is Spurs !?

He's as much one of our own as Kane is Spurs !?

Slightly different from Kane, being let go by arsenal at 8 and joining spurs.

He's as much one of our own as Kane is Spurs !?

He was announced as a signing though, 250k I think. Plymouth lad, one of our first signings under the Liebherr era. He certainly isn't one of our own.

He's definitely Plymouth. They LOVE him here. He's the best thing since sliced bread if you ask the locals.

He's definitely Plymouth. They LOVE him here. He's the best thing since sliced bread if you ask the locals.

Stephens wasn't physically bullied he made a cardinal error whilst man marking. The same error Hagazi made whilst marking him for his goal. He looked away from Hagazi to see what was happening with the ball and whilst he was looking away Hagazi broke free. Hagazi looked away and was caught flat footed as Stephens made a near post run.

Either watch the ball and attack it or position to see the ball, mark, but attack the ball in front of mark, or watch the mark completely, ignore the ball and block any movement by physically staying between mark and goal. Pick one from three and don't change. Stephens didn't he got mixed up and distracted. It happens all the time. A matter of understanding, discipline and concentration. Man marking is the most difficult.

he joined us at 16. already played in the Plymouth first team. Granted, Jack went into our development squad and then shunted out around the country on loan...

 

Slightly different from Kane, being let go by arsenal at 8 and joining spurs.

he was actually 17 with half a dozen first team games at Plymouth and as you say, certainly not `one of our own'. Very good work by the club. Shame we haven't ventured more down that route, especially with the new agreement that allows Prem sides to pretty much steal players from the lower leagues for nothing. Quite a lot of risk involved, but if we are not securing the best talent at 13,14 or 15 then maybe we need to consider it.