Is Les Reed the cause of AP departure?

[Topcat]

The Echo has been advised by the Club that the decision to sack AP was not driven by performance reasons.

 

The two main rumours are:-

 

1. That there is a fall out over Guly and other players scouted by people reporting to Les Reed.

 

2. That there was friction between some of the training staff and AP (and his coaches). These training staff are the ones who report to Reed. Not only AP left but also his coaches.

 

Has Cortese simply decided to back Reed over AP? Reed often sits with Cortese and they seem to get on well. It would explain the awful timing of the decision with team performance being well down the list of priorities.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

The Echo has been advised by the Club that the decision to sack AP was not driven by performance reasons.

 

The two main rumours are:-

 

1. That there is a fall out over Guly and other players scouted by people reporting to Les Reed.

 

2. That there was friction between some of the training staff and AP (and his coaches). These training staff are the ones who report to Reed. Not only AP left but also his coaches.

 

Has Cortese simply decided to back Reed over AP? Reed often sits with Cortese and they seem to get on well. It would explain the awful timing of the decision with team performance being well down the list of priorities.

 

 

Interesting...

[Larrylove]

Sounds plausible,but who knows.At the end of the day we will only find out what Cortese wants us to know,nothing!!

[Andy_Porter]

If it is the case and Cortese is just going to back Reed in these sort of situations then I hope Les Reed is the bloke making the decision over the new manager otherwise this will just happen again at some point.

[Deppo]

Neither of those are true, by the way.

[alpine_saint]

If it is the case and Cortese is just going to back Reed in these sort of situations then I hope Les Reed is the bloke making the decision over the new manager otherwise this will just happen again at some point.

 

This is a good point.

[saintsub]

DEPPO - why are you sure on this point?

[Julian H. Cope]

We cannot have a bloke called 'Les' running the show. He needs to be called Christophe or Big Mal.

[benjii]

It would tie in with the wording of the club statement.

 

"...it is essential to make changes to the First Team management and coaching.

These targets for sustained and significant progress embrace both the First Team and the Football Development & Support Centre as integrated, co-operative units."

 

NB in particular, "co-operative". It seems, if true, that Pardew was either trying to usurp, or at least was not happy with, the management structure of the club. If that was the case then I guess he had to go. Surprising if ture though, as it was long stated that there would be an interim layer between team manager and chairman (the DoF/Sporting Director etc).

Edited 1 September, 2010 by benjii

[doddisalegend]

This BBC aticle made me think the same thing

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/paulfletcher/2010/08/pardew_sacking_at_saints_raise.html#248300

 

looks like AP tried to retain control of the first team and got the boot for it. Not to many managers are going to want to be in that postion no doubt the new guy will be called head coach instead of manager.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

The Echo has been advised by the Club that the decision to sack AP was not driven by performance reasons.

 

The two main rumours are:-

 

1. That there is a fall out over Guly and other players scouted by people reporting to Les Reed.

 

2. That there was friction between some of the training staff and AP (and his coaches). These training staff are the ones who report to Reed. Not only AP left but also his coaches.

 

Has Cortese simply decided to back Reed over AP? Reed often sits with Cortese and they seem to get on well. It would explain the awful timing of the decision with team performance being well down the list of priorities.

 

 

Don't people find it strange that this week the Echo has suddenly been invited back into the fold?

 

Methinks there is some serious spinning going on!

 

Be careful what you believe right now and don't take everything at face value would be my advice.

[Topcat]

It would tie in with the wording of the club statement.

 

"...it is essential to make changes to the First Team management and coaching.

These targets for sustained and significant progress embrace both the First Team and the Football Development & Support Centre as integrated, co-operative units."

 

NB in particular, "co-operative". It seems, if true, that Pardew was either trying to usurp, or at least was not happy with, the management structure of the club. If that was the case then I guess he had to go. Surprising if ture though, as it was long stated that there would be an interim layer between team manager and chairman (the DoF/Sporting Director etc).

 

Thanks Benji, that adds further weight to the proposition that it was all about a power struggle. A struggle that Lowe often created.

 

But with the transfer period almost closed, this side of January they should have just given AP his chance with the players he had selected for the squad.

[benjii]

Thanks Benji, that adds further weight to the proposition that it was all about a power struggle. A struggle that Lowe often created.

 

But with the transfer period almost closed, this side of January they should have just given AP his chance with the players he had selected for the squad.

 

I think I agree. Unless the problems, whatever they were, were threatening an iminent implosion I would've stuck with AP for now.

 

But... if we win on Saturday and have a new manager in soon who is a good manager, I doubt any harm will be done.

[benjii]

Don't people find it strange that this week the Echo has suddenly been invited back into the fold?

 

Methinks there is some serious spinning going on!

 

Be careful what you believe right now and don't take everything at face value would be my advice.

 

I shall not take your post at face value

[The9]

I'd heard that Reed is Cortese's "footballing advisor" now too.

 

Strange to see the comments on the Sun's website about the reasons Cortese gave the players :

 

"He said he was concerned that some players were not getting a chance and he wanted all the squad to feel part of the club, not just from one to 11 but from one to 30"

 

So having done that, the first team selection afterwards shows only Guly making a debut, and he'd only just signed anyway. Wilkins out...!

[hypochondriac]

I'd heard that Reed is Cortese's "footballing advisor" now too.

 

Strange to see the comments on the Sun's website about the reasons Cortese gave the players :

 

"He said he was concerned that some players were not getting a chance and he wanted all the squad to feel part of the club, not just from one to 11 but from one to 30"

 

So having done that, the first team selection afterwards shows only Guly making a debut, and he'd only just signed anyway. Wilkins out...!

 

Maybe the Martin thing has some sort of substance? (I know people close to him on here say it is untrue.)

[Block 5]

The Echo has been advised by the Club that the decision to sack AP was not driven by performance reasons.

 

The two main rumours are:-

 

1. That there is a fall out over Guly and other players scouted by people reporting to Les Reed.

 

2. That there was friction between some of the training staff and AP (and his coaches). These training staff are the ones who report to Reed. Not only AP left but also his coaches.

 

Has Cortese simply decided to back Reed over AP? Reed often sits with Cortese and they seem to get on well. It would explain the awful timing of the decision with team performance being well down the list of priorities.

 

No offence Topcat but what is your source?

There is nothing on the Echo website.

 

You state that 'the Echo has been advised by the club' and in the very next sentence you are referring to 'rumours'.

 

Which is it? A statement from the club or rumours?

 

I'm with Duncan on this one, until real facts emerge (and there is a distinct chance that they NEVER will) we should be careful what we believe.

I saw Peter Mandelson, Nicola Cortese and Simon Carter in Starbucks this morning etc etc.

[Scummer]

I hadn't realised until this morning that Les Reed got the sack at Charlton to make way for Pardew. That's probably not the best foundation for a solid working relationship.

[Saint_clark]

Maybe the Martin thing has some sort of substance? (I know people close to him on here say it is untrue.)

 

What Martin thing?

[jam]

What Martin thing?

 

This post and the subsequent discussion:

 

 

I can tell you for a fact that if Pardew had still been in charge Aaron Martin would have been in the starting 11 tonight.

 

Let's just say his face doesn't fit with Cortese.

[Larrylove]

What has poor Aaron Martin done? Thought he looked very promising.

[Toomer]

I think Cortese was happy that we had a good win on Saturday so he could get rid of AP on the back of a good result so it would not be seen as results driven. If we had lost perhaps AP would still be in charge with Cortese playing the waiting game for the good win then get rid, my thoughts only.

[doddisalegend]

I hadn't realised until this morning that Les Reed got the sack at Charlton to make way for Pardew. That's probably not the best foundation for a solid working relationship.

 

Really oh dear so basically we ****ed up another season becuase some people at the club had axes to grind with each other?

[JonnyLove]

Oh FFS..............................................................................................................

[Cricketphilly]

Rumour at the time was that Pardew was pushed from West Ham for an affair with Carl Fletcher's wife. Possibly only a grubby tale but may fit in with ML's moral stance if something similar has been occuring? (All alledgedly of course)

[Topcat]

No offence Topcat but what is your source?

There is nothing on the Echo website.

 

You state that 'the Echo has been advised by the club' and in the very next sentence you are referring to 'rumours'.

What Source? The Echo website.

"However, the Daily Echo spoke to sources close to Cortese and the executive committee yesterday, who claimed Pardew had been sacked because of concern over morale at the club’s Staplewood training ground. "

 

"Finally, it was also suggested last night that the timing of the sacking, after a 4-0 away victory, at Bristol Rovers, was intentional, with the club wanting to show it was not a decision based on results"

 

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/8361492.Le_Tiss_hits_out_at__bizarre__claims/

[ART]

Being a manager in football, or in fact most walks of life, requires maintaining total hold on subordinates and colleagues. Time after time problems arise within, backstabbing, putsches, destablising, and one-upmanship.Strachan, Hoddle and Burley managed strongly enough that they weren't dethroned but all the other managers we've had in the past 10 years had to fight off and lost out to unrest within the camp. A person can be tough as nails but too trusting. I get the feeling, and this has been for somewhile, that Cortese is being advised on footballing matters. There is a power within, open or hidden pulling the strings, allowing Cortese to do all the announcements, appearing to be the one calling the shots. Banking works that way, and I can well believe Cortese uses hidden advisors, that we may never ever know who or where they are.

[captainchris]

What Source? The Echo website.

"However, the Daily Echo spoke to sources close to Cortese and the executive committee yesterday, who claimed Pardew had been sacked because of concern over morale at the club’s Staplewood training ground. "

 

"Finally, it was also suggested last night that the timing of the sacking, after a 4-0 away victory, at Bristol Rovers, was intentional, with the club wanting to show it was not a decision based on results"

 

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/8361492.Le_Tiss_hits_out_at__bizarre__claims/

 

I don't give a flying ant what the moral at the training ground is like. Every thing is there for one purpose only and one purpose only to win first team football matches. Moral at Staplewood is a complete red herring. If crap moral drives success for AP then I'm all for it - or was !

[mulletsaint]

Don't people find it strange that this week the Echo has suddenly been invited back into the fold?

 

Methinks there is some serious spinning going on!

 

Be careful what you believe right now and don't take everything at face value would be my advice.

 

As more stories come out of Saint Mary's giving potential reasons for AP's departure, many in the national press, I've been thinking pretty much the same thing. Unfortunately that cuts both ways doesn't it? It's easier just to mistrust everyone who seems to be ITK.

[Topcat]

Don't people find it strange that this week the Echo has suddenly been invited back into the fold?

 

Methinks there is some serious spinning going on!

 

Be careful what you believe right now and don't take everything at face value would be my advice.

 

That is why I have pointed the finger at Reed. The Club leads the Echo into printing that it is about "morale at the training ground". The Club know that it cannot spin the argument about team performance after 3 games. Who works out of there apart from players? Answer Reed and his team. Also why did AP's 2 coaches also go? The answer points to things at the training ground at which Reed has overall control.

[Deppo]

It has nothing to do with Les Reed.

[Block 5]

What Source? The Echo website.

"However, the Daily Echo spoke to sources close to Cortese and the executive committee yesterday, who claimed Pardew had been sacked because of concern over morale at the club’s Staplewood training ground. "

 

"Finally, it was also suggested last night that the timing of the sacking, after a 4-0 away victory, at Bristol Rovers, was intentional, with the club wanting to show it was not a decision based on results"

 

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/8361492.Le_Tiss_hits_out_at__bizarre__claims/

 

Thanks Topcat.

I find it all a bit vague and wishy washy to be honest.

I don't think we'll ever find out the truth.

[benjii]

Whatever happened to that chap with the specs who hung around the training ground under Lowe? Can't remember his name. Looked a bit sly.

[Block 5]

Whatever happened to that chap with the specs who hung around the training ground under Lowe? Can't remember his name. Looked a bit sly.

 

This guy?

 

[benjii]

This guy?

 

 

Similar looking!

[Topcat]

It has nothing to do with Les Reed.

 

So what is it to do with? New players signed through the transfer panel that Reed sits on and by scouts that report to Reed?

 

Do tell Mr Deppo.

[Deppo]

So what is it to do with? New players signed through the transfer panel that Reed sits on and by scouts that report to Reed?

 

Do tell Mr Deppo.

 

It is to do with the players. One in particular, but the team in general are behind the sacking.

[Chez]

What Source? The Echo website.

"However, the Daily Echo spoke to sources close to Cortese and the executive committee yesterday, who claimed Pardew had been sacked because of concern over morale at the club’s Staplewood training ground. "

 

"Finally, it was also suggested last night that the timing of the sacking, after a 4-0 away victory, at Bristol Rovers, was intentional, with the club wanting to show it was not a decision based on results"

 

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/8361492.Le_Tiss_hits_out_at__bizarre__claims/

 

I was told (by a guy who works with a players dad) that some players were unhappy at being asked by Pardew to train both in the morning and afternoon. No idea how accurate that is. Anyone able to confirm that players were training for longer periods?

[Topcat]

It is to do with the players. One in particular, but the team in general are behind the sacking.

 

No one player has that much power. Or should have. Lambert is the most important player for us last season and has often praised Pardew for taking his career to a higher level.

 

As to the team, if they are as you say "in general behind the sacking", why last night did so many of them play so badly? If Guly, then there is the Reed connection through the scouts and transfer panel.

[Toadhall Saint]

It is to do with the players. One in particular, but the team in general are behind the sacking.

 

wasn't at the game last night but from all accounts they didn't play or look like they are behind the sacking (general or not).

[Deppo]

If you are going to blame last night's performance on psychological issues, then I think it was more the pro-Pardew songs that unsettled the team on the pitch.

[saintscottofthenortham]

If you are going to blame last night's performance on psychological issues, then I think it was more the pro-Pardew songs that unsettled the team on the pitch.

 

This ^^^

 

Singing "One Alan Pardew" was absolutely ridiculous and I was embarrassed to be hearing it! It was mindless and was only going to hinder the team. Bit like when 5,000 Saints fans thought it would be clever to sing "Pay Up Pompey", leading to the entire nation praising Pompey fans for their "Incredible" support, when in truth they were terrible and barely made a noise until 4-1 up.

[RobM]

The Echo has been advised by the Club...

 

So all of a sudden NC is friendly enough with the local red top to give them this info? hmmmm.

[Blandford saint]

Agree with CaptainChris. Staff morale at the training ground is a total irrelevance and red herring. The whole point of the entire set up of the club is to make the first team succcessful and achieve results. If some lower-ranking coach is upset with Pardew he can leave - Pardew was the important man doing a good job. If we were told that Ancelotti had left Chelsea because some of the youth team managers didn't get on with him, we would laugh in disbelief - it would have no credibility.

 

I remember Les Reed looking well out of his depth and failing miserably as caretaker at Charlton - reminded me of the Stuart Gray/Steve Wigley situation.

[doddisalegend]

This ^^^

 

Singing "One Alan Pardew" was absolutely ridiculous and I was embarrassed to be hearing it! It was mindless and was only going to hinder the team. Bit like when 5,000 Saints fans thought it would be clever to sing "Pay Up Pompey", leading to the entire nation praising Pompey fans for their "Incredible" support, when in truth they were terrible and barely made a noise until 4-1 up.

 

So how should those fans upset at this turn of events make themselves heard? or should fans just shut up and take it? general I dis-like booing and jeering the players/team but showing support for a manager that was popular and seems undeserved of a sacking by a good portion of the fan base doesn't bother me at all. Now if there was a good reason for the sacking people might be more accepting but the moment it seems to be becuase AP upset the tea lady at staplewood or some such in which case people have the right to be ****ed about it.

[SaintRichmond]

I think I agree. Unless the problems, whatever they were, were threatening an iminent implosion I would've stuck with AP for now.

 

But... if we win on Saturday and have a new manager in soon who is a good manager, I doubt any harm will be done.

 

Don't hold your breath mate

 

We are now in for a horribly rough ride for the rest of the season IMHO

[Deppo]

So how should those fans upset at this turn of events make themselves heard?

 

I think it is a fair point that you want to make your upset known. But how you do it all depends on whether you prioritise it above the needs of the team on the pitch.

[The9]

I was completely in support of the "one Alan Pardew" chants too, I really couldn't give a crap if he was sh@gging the whole team and their wives provided they were winning matches and heading for promotion.

 

As it is, any "the manager was involevd with X's wife" story is almost certainly made up, just like all the "X is an alcoholic" ones are (where X is not equal to Clough or Kendall).

[SaintRichmond]

Being a manager in football, or in fact most walks of life, requires maintaining total hold on subordinates and colleagues. Time after time problems arise within, backstabbing, putsches, destablising, and one-upmanship.Strachan, Hoddle and Burley managed strongly enough that they weren't dethroned but all the other managers we've had in the past 10 years had to fight off and lost out to unrest within the camp. A person can be tough as nails but too trusting. I get the feeling, and this has been for somewhile, that Cortese is being advised on footballing matters. There is a power within, open or hidden pulling the strings, allowing Cortese to do all the announcements, appearing to be the one calling the shots. Banking works that way, and I can well believe Cortese uses hidden advisors, that we may never ever know who or where they are.

 

You mean I can't mention that 'rse licking Reed is the major Sh*t Stirrer grass for Cortese ???

[Deppo]

I was completely in support of the "one Alan Pardew" chants too, I really couldn't give a crap if he was sh@gging the whole team and their wives provided they were winning matches and heading for promotion.

 

As it is, any "the manager was involevd with X's wife" story is almost certainly made up, just like all the "X is an alcoholic" ones are (where X is not equal to Clough or Kendall).

 

What on earth are you talking about?