Alan Pardew Criticism Thread

[alpine_saint]

In the name of balance, of course, since this is a open-minded site, and since we arent allowed to balance on the appreciation thread.

 

I shall start :

 

Tactically one-dimensional

Clueless about substitutions

Wasted our big summer of preparation with low-key transfers and a bizarre line-up plan for the friendlies.

[Wes Tender]

He's gone, Get over it.

[BadgerBadger]

Whichever thread wins will give us a true indication of our feelings towards AP

[alpine_saint]

I fully expect the appreciation thread to run to more posts than the criticism thread.

 

After all, the poll still shows over half think it was wrong to sack him.

 

I just think the rose-tinting that everything was perfect under AP is totally disingenuous.

[paris]

Should still be our manager imho.....

[Ian the Red]

Lacked the ability to inspire players

Could not instill the killer instinct

Tactically inept

[Saint Fan CaM]

Old news. Move on. Same applies to other thread. My opinion.

[Cascadia Saint]

Should still be our manager imho.....

 

Yes.

[shirleysfc]

In the name of balance, of course, since this is a open-minded site, and since we arent allowed to balance on the appreciation thread.

 

I shall start :

 

Tactically one-dimensional

Clueless about substitutions

Wasted our big summer of preparation with low-key transfers and a bizarre line-up plan for the friendlies.

 

I'm with you on the first couple, he had no plan b.

 

He also blamed surfaces too much. Some of the teams we dropped points to last season we should of beaten blind folded.

 

Also, that rubbish at the begining of the season about needing to get a win away from home because of the presure at home. What a load of balls, we should have had 3pts of Plymouth and Leyton Orient.

[Give it to Ron]

I fully expect the appreciation thread to run to more posts than the criticism thread.

 

After all, the poll still shows over half think it was wrong to sack him.

 

I just think the rose-tinting that everything was perfect under AP is totally disingenuous.

 

Can you name me one manager in football that has been "perfect"? Even Fergie got the colour of the shirts wrong one day.

AP win percentage was the best of any Saints manager and as you have stated on many occasions its only winning that counts.

We have to balance that of course with the division we are playing in and money spent but for me AP was doing a decent job.

We will never know what went on behind the scenes.

[Smirking_Saint]

He did ok, not great

 

He was a planner not a decisive, reactive manager.

 

8/10 managers would have finished the season like he did last year.

 

Wasted a chance to be in the npc on a tin pot trophy.

 

tactically 1 dimensional

 

failed to strengthen

 

egotistical and after what i have heard deserves to go

[Miltonaggro]

AP had his failings as all managers do, and I agree with Alpine's three points, but overall I tend to think that we need to see who is being brought in before being over critical. If NC blows it Pardew could look like the lovechild of Bill Shankly and Brian Clough...

[TopGun]

I'd expect George Burley or Jan Poortvliet to have achieved a high win ratio in L1 though. I'm with Alpine on this one.

[SaintRichmond]

I fully expect the appreciation thread to run to more posts than the criticism thread.

 

After all, the poll still shows over half think it was wrong to sack him.

 

I just think the rose-tinting that everything was perfect under AP is totally disingenuous.

 

Which is quite funny really, because we do not know the REASONS why he was sacked

 

It's a bit like saying "Fred West, nice bloke, always buys me a pint" without knowing what really went on

 

Pardew WAS One dimensional, never had a plan B let alone a plan A. Concentrated on the JPT last season AGAINST the wishes of Leibherr/Cortese who (rightly) wanted a Top Six finish

 

He drew a line between First Team/Reserves/Academy, which was stupid because they are part of the SAME CLUB

 

He went against the Owners wishes too many times

 

All that is before all the Gossip and Rumour as to what went on behind the scenes, and to that, I will say what millions say in situations that come to the public fore

 

"There is no smoke without fire"

[Smirking_Saint]

I'd expect George Burley or Jan Poortvliet to have achieved a high win ratio in L1 though. I'm with Alpine on this one.

 

this, win ratio isn't that relevant in this league with our cash and in fact isn't that good when you weigh it up

[SaintRichmond]

Can you name me one manager in football that has been "perfect"? Even Fergie got the colour of the shirts wrong one day.

AP win percentage was the best of any Saints manager and as you have stated on many occasions its only winning that counts.

We have to balance that of course with the division we are playing in and money spent but for me AP was doing a decent job.

We will never know what went on behind the scenes.

 

Yes

 

Branfoot

 

He had a 100% record of being Krap ALL the time

[Turkish]

funny lips.

[Topcat]

Mr Pardew was guilty of not being co-operative with the Football Development & Support Centre. As stated in the official statement.

 

"These targets for sustained and significant progress embrace both the First Team and the Football Development & Support Centre as integrated, co-operative units. Consequently, the First Team Manager, Alan Pardew; First Team Coach, Wally Downes; and Goalkeeping Coach, Stuart Murdoch have been relieved of their duties with immediate effect."

[alpine_saint]

Mr Pardew was guilty of not being co-operative with the Football Development & Support Centre. As stated in the official statement.

 

"These targets for sustained and significant progress embrace both the First Team and the Football Development & Support Centre as integrated, co-operative units. Consequently, the First Team Manager, Alan Pardew; First Team Coach, Wally Downes; and Goalkeeping Coach, Stuart Murdoch have been relieved of their duties with immediate effect."

 

Hmm. Didnt notice that before.

[alpine_saint]

Alpine please just disappear. He's left get over it.

 

Erm, no. If people are allowed to post sychophantic sh*t-stirring threads, I feel duty bound to provide "balance".

[SaintRichmond]

Mr Pardew was guilty of not being co-operative with the Football Development & Support Centre. As stated in the official statement.

 

"These targets for sustained and significant progress embrace both the First Team and the Football Development & Support Centre as integrated, co-operative units. Consequently, the First Team Manager, Alan Pardew; First Team Coach, Wally Downes; and Goalkeeping Coach, Stuart Murdoch have been relieved of their duties with immediate effect."

 

Yeah Yeah Yeah

 

So, Cortese, the Ultra Businessman, gets rid of the Three people runing the First Team ..................

 

....... Without first lining up a replacement to effect a smooth transition ???

 

IT DOES NOT COMPUTE IMHO

[buctootim]

As for Pardew, he did an alright job. Not poor, not great, but alright. Some good signings, but awful close season this year, unprepared, never got the consistency needed, never had a plan B and far too many games where we couldn't get the breakthrough. Doesn't mean he didn't deserve a bit more time though.

 

Not sure about deserving more time (though timing of his sacking was pretty unfortunate). I think Pardew is pretty competent, but this close season he failed to prepare properly and didnt sign players to address the problems evident from last season. That sealed his fate imo.

[doddisalegend]

At the risk that smirking saint will have another fantasy about my **** and APs arse. I will post one last time. Most of the **** on on here about AP is either opinion or rumour. Here in black and white is one stat that can't be disproved Alan pardew was the ninth best performing mananager in all four leagues last season

 

http://www.leaguemanagers.com/managers/mpl-league.html?seasonid=140&type=Season+Total&x=20&y=11

 

he got that stat by winning matches whether you liked/dis-liked the way he looked his teams playing style or his love of wags are irrelevant he got results and was one of the 10 top managers in England last season on that basis I'd have backed him to get us promoted this season. You can argue he had loads of cash resources it doesn't matter he would have had the same resources this year and no one claims sir Alex is **** becuase Man U have loads of money. If you want a better manager look at the list there are eight options above him. At the end of the day you want a manager who gets more good results than bad and AP was that.

 

It's over now done I'll support the next manager when he comes (well as long as it's not Wilkins or Reed) but my opinion is we could have shot ourselves in the foot this season only time will tell.

[shurlock]

Here we go.

 

People usually with the argument that AP had an eye for a player - yes we signed some decent players but arguably anyone with a copy of Football Manager or a pot to p i $$ in on a HCDAJFU thread would have also identified them: Lambert, Fonte, Barnard, Puncheon - these were all established players that required a large purse not amazing superpowers to spot a diamond in the rough (for that see Pearson's record at Leicester). Of course, ot saying that's true across the board - Harding was a good find to the extent he was less well-known, though he had a decent CV at some big clubs. Antonio was definitely an excellent find. But where AP used his "discretion" or "knowledge", the jury is still out -Hammond, Seaborne, Otsemebor, Trotman. And just as important, there are the omissions - areas in the team -CM, a target-man, extra pace- that were crying out for reinforcement -as far back as Jan- but were ignored.

 

Pardew was not a terrible man manager - he seemed pretty adept at handling young English players like AL and keeping their feet on the ground; his impact on other young players is less certain - people say that Schneiderlin came on leaps and bounds under Pardew. I disagree - he was allowed to play more and more in his comfort zone and people may have confused improvement with dropping down a division; like Morgan, James, Wotton, Hammond and to a lesser extent Puncheon should have faced more competition and not be given such an easy run. Pardew was too passive and laissez-faire at times (just consider the timing of substitutions). Puncheon is interesting because it shows the Lallana effect in reverese: bigging up young English players can also blind you to poor performance and the need to take a grip. How well Pardew did with other types of players -say foreign players like Papa- also needs to be asked - again the record is more mixed.

 

Finally, and most important, is our playing style under Pardew (won't bang on about it again) but it has left us dangerously unbalanced and hostage to the form of Lambert -fantastic when he's fit and in form but a proverbial albatross when he's not. It needed only a dip in form or an injury (or two with Lallana) for this particular chicken to come home to roost. Saturday was only the culmination of a long-festering problem. In hindsight, it was wishful thinking to assume that none of the above would have happened sooner or later and makes it even more puzzling why appropriate measures earlier.

 

All in all, Pardew did a solid job but given the cash at his disposal and the weaknesses in our set-up, it was very much a case of diminishing returns. I appreciate some of what he's done, especially for steadying the ship but that may say as much about the neuroses of saints fans inured to expecting and fearing the worst. But Pardew was never indispensible. As others say, now time to move on and focus on a season that's still there for the taking.

[Topcat]

Yeah Yeah Yeah So, Cortese, the Ultra Businessman, gets rid of the three people runing the First Team ..................

....... Without first lining up a replacement to effect a smooth transition ???

IT DOES NOT COMPUTE IMHO

Cortese has no experience as a businessmen prior to the Saints. There is no record of managing groups or people. He was a liaison/account manager of high net worth clients at a bank. In that job you are not responsible for hiring people such as a football manager. He studied business management at uni, just like tens of thousands of others.

[JustMike]

In the name of balance, of course, since this is a open-minded site, and since we arent allowed to balance on the appreciation thread.

 

I shall start :

 

Tactically one-dimensional

Clueless about substitutions

Wasted our big summer of preparation with low-key transfers and a bizarre line-up plan for the friendlies.

 

AP didnt arrange them.

[alpine_saint]

AP didnt arrange them.

 

I think you misunderstood my meaning.

 

I meant the teams he played and how he changed them during the game. I reckon our supposed "first XI" finally stepped out together for Orient following the Southend game last May.

 

However, thinking about it, the line-up of friendlies themselves was pretty useless too. We hardly got into the groove against the type of opposition we knew to expect this season, did we ?

[Noodles34]

Alpine, what a Mong, know you haven't been there to see it (as usual) but we have been **** since he went, is that not enough for your agenda?

[alpine_saint]

Alpine, what a Mong, know you haven't been there to see it (as usual) but we have been **** since he went, is that not enough for your agenda?

 

We have been **** because we have no manager, not because Pardew has gone.

[stthrobber]

AP didnt arrange them.

 

....and possibly didn't get the transfers he wanted, since there would appear to be a transfer committee that Pardew wasn't on.

 

The biggest criticism appears to be the lack of a plan b when things aren't going well. I read all the time of teams that come to SMS and park the bus and we fail to find a way to overcome that problem.

 

I think as much as anything, it's the lack of game changing players in the squad that has caused this. If he was as bad as some people think (Richmond's lack of even a plan A for instance), then his win ratio would be poor, so overall he was getting things mostly right.

 

If he has a way of playing but can't bring the players in he wants because someone else decides who joins the club, then any manager will be slightly hamstrung in that respect.

[del boy]

In the interests of balance perhaps we should have an Alan Pardew ambivalence thread..... he was OK

[Professor]

In the name of balance, of course, since this is a open-minded site, and since we arent allowed to balance on the appreciation thread.

 

Tactically one-dimensional

Clueless about substitutions

Wasted our big summer of preparation with low-key transfers and a bizarre line-up plan for the friendlies.

 

I do agree with those comments, and wondered why either Wilkins or Downes didn't encourage him to be more adventurous. Maybe Wilkins approach over the last week provides some answer to that. What saved Pardew for me was that he constructed a good squad last season that performed well. Well, but not good enough because of poor results at low-placed teams, such as Wycombe and Tranmere. We then had the close season which was largely, although not completely, wasted and the poor pre-season.

 

How much of this was entirely Pardew's fault, I can't say, since the effect of Cortese and Reed is an unknown.

 

The sacking still looks a mystery, and until we hear Pardew's side of the story it will probably remain so.

[stevegrant]

Not perfect by any means, but we're a third division club, so expecting a Mourinho-esque manager is somewhat far-fetched.

 

Definitely agree that the pattern and timing of substitutions was often very odd (last season, taking Barnard off on 63 minutes in EVERY game when Lambert was knackered was very annoying), and the tactics away from home against lesser sides weren't anything special.

 

However, he'll have had very little input into the pre-season programme. Should definitely have signed another winger and probably another striker, but it's possible he might have either been trying to do just that before he was sacked, or was happy to wait until this week when the loan market would re-open, allowing us to bring in someone from higher up the football pyramid.

 

The sun definitely didn't shine out of Pardew's arse, but nor do I think we'll get anyone better in this division in terms of managerial ability, experience and success.

[Junior Mullet]

Yeah Yeah Yeah

 

So, Cortese, the Ultra Businessman, gets rid of the Three people runing the First Team ..................

 

....... Without first lining up a replacement to effect a smooth transition ???

 

IT DOES NOT COMPUTE IMHO

 

That's what he wants you to think IMHO. IMO there has been no foul play, just a realisation that he is the wrong man for the job.

 

The source of my opinion = body language of players on the pitch since the sacking.

[Bucks Saint]

Not perfect by any means, but we're a third division club, so expecting a Mourinho-esque manager is somewhat far-fetched.

 

Definitely agree that the pattern and timing of substitutions was often very odd (last season, taking Barnard off on 63 minutes in EVERY game when Lambert was knackered was very annoying), and the tactics away from home against lesser sides weren't anything special.

 

However, he'll have had very little input into the pre-season programme. Should definitely have signed another winger and probably another striker, but it's possible he might have either been trying to do just that before he was sacked, or was happy to wait until this week when the loan market would re-open, allowing us to bring in someone from higher up the football pyramid.

 

The sun definitely didn't shine out of Pardew's arse, but nor do I think we'll get anyone better in this division in terms of managerial ability, experience and success.

 

Spot on with the reality check. Thanks

[Junior Mullet]

We have been **** because we have no manager, not because Pardew has gone.

 

Disagree

[for_heaven's_Saint]

He chews with his mouth open and puts his feet on the coffee table.

[dronskisaint]

Erm, no. If people are allowed to post sychophantic sh*t-stirring threads, I feel duty bound to provide "balance".

 

Which would be ok if all your threads weren't negative & doom laden...no sense of balance there I note (& there's no h after the c in sycophantic)

 

He's gone - ffs draw a line in the sand

[alpine_saint]

Which would be ok if all your threads weren't negative & doom laden...no sense of balance there I note (& there's no h after the c in sycophantic)

 

He's gone - ffs draw a line in the sand

 

As you all are fond of pointing out - I am not there at games (singing "Alan Pardew's Red & White Army")

[SaintRichmond]

Cortese has no experience as a businessmen prior to the Saints. There is no record of managing groups or people. He was a liaison/account manager of high net worth clients at a bank. In that job you are not responsible for hiring people such as a football manager. He studied business management at uni, just like tens of thousands of others.

 

He had no experience re FOOTBALL as a Businessman

 

My point is, I do NOT think he is "stupid" enough to dismiss the three people running the First Team, for FOOTBALL RELATED MATTERS, without first lining up Replacements

 

I repeat, it does not compute

 

It would be on a par with McClaren in F1 dumping Hamilton mid season, without having a First Class driver lined up to drive in the next GP

[alpine_saint]

I do agree with those comments, and wondered why either Wilkins or Downes didn't encourage him to be more adventurous. Maybe Wilkins approach over the last week provides some answer to that. What saved Pardew for me was that he constructed a good squad last season that performed well. Well, but not good enough because of poor results at low-placed teams, such as Wycombe and Tranmere. We then had the close season which was largely, although not completely, wasted and the poor pre-season.

 

How much of this was entirely Pardew's fault, I can't say, since the effect of Cortese and Reed is an unknown.

The sacking still looks a mystery, and until we hear Pardew's side of the story it will probably remain so.

 

And now we get to the nub of the matter; NC and AP didnt get on and had a p*ss-poor working relationship by all accounts, and NC is the immovable object.

[SaintRichmond]

That's what he wants you to think IMHO. IMO there has been no foul play, just a realisation that he is the wrong man for the job.

 

The source of my opinion = body language of players on the pitch since the sacking.

 

Perhaps, just like us, they do not know WHY he was sacked

[up and away]

WE INHERITED A HOUSE OF CARDS FROM PARDEW

Go back over last season and there was one underlying problem that kept resurfacing, control of the midfield. In the first handful of games last season we were all over the shop, only fixed against Bristol Rovers at home with Wotton playing in the hole with a 451 (we lost that game, but that was the turning point). This got forgotten eventually because Connolly did so well when we converted to 442 in the second half., which never seemed to work when we subsequently started that way. 451 got forgotten and Connolly injured and we then just bumbled along again.

 

The next big turning point came against Pompey (another game we lost), where we had sufficient quality players on form, attacking and moving to over whelm any League 1 side. I said at the time we would easily beat Norwich if we even played near that level and so it proved to be (even though our previous form was ropey, with Alpine telling me to have a sit down). But equally I said I do not believe we can keep that level of energy and commitment up when having to play 2 games a week. And so this turned out to be with sublime performances sandwiched between the dross of Exeter, Wycombe, Tranmere, etc.

 

This is what we inherited from Pardew, a side that looked like Arsenal one minute, Skegness the next. What Pardew had built was a house of cards, with no foundations for the long term. Brilliant when we had all the decent players on form and combining, but impossible to keep the energy levels required when playing two games a week. Even without two games a week, get players off form and not putting in the performances and you no longer are guaranteed the results. I really thought Pardew would address the issue in pre-season, but it never came up on his radar. Just how was he explaining away those non-performances, especially after the lord mayor’s show?

[Deppo]

He lost the colour in his hair, unforgivable. The sign of a weak man.

[doddisalegend]

WE INHERITED A HOUSE OF CARDS FROM PARDEW

Go back over last season and there was one underlying problem that kept resurfacing, control of the midfield. In the first handful of games last season we were all over the shop, only fixed against Bristol Rovers at home with Wotton playing in the hole with a 451 (we lost that game, but that was the turning point). This got forgotten eventually because Connolly did so well when we converted to 442 in the second half., which never seemed to work when we subsequently started that way. 451 got forgotten and Connolly injured and we then just bumbled along again.

 

The next big turning point came against Pompey (another game we lost), where we had sufficient quality players on form, attacking and moving to over whelm any League 1 side. I said at the time we would easily beat Norwich if we even played near that level and so it proved to be (even though our previous form was ropey, with Alpine telling me to have a sit down). But equally I said I do not believe we can keep that level of energy and commitment up when having to play 2 games a week. And so this turned out to be with sublime performances sandwiched between the dross of Exeter, Wycombe, Tranmere, etc.

 

This is what we inherited from Pardew, a side that looked like Arsenal one minute, Skegness the next. What Pardew had built was a house of cards, with no foundations for the long term. Brilliant when we had all the decent players on form and combining, but impossible to keep the energy levels required when playing two games a week. Even without two games a week, get players off form and not putting in the performances and you no longer are guaranteed the results. I really thought Pardew would address the issue in pre-season, but it never came up on his radar. Just how was he explaining away those non-performances, especially after the lord mayor’s show?

 

That would be the same for every team in the country wouldn't it? all teams look better with there best players playing any team that suffers a rash of injuries/suspensions of their best players is going to look poorer for it. Not many if any teams have the resources to put two first class teams out.

[SaintRichmond]

And now we get to the nub of the matter; NC and AP didnt get on and had a p*ss-poor working relationship by all accounts, and NC is the immovable object.

 

I think people should have a rethink about Pardew

 

He came to a Club that had been saved from extinction, had a massive Fan base, a great Stadium and a "Budget" to Build that would have been the envy of most Teams inn the CCC, let alone Div 1

 

The Owners, HIS employers, made no bones about the fact that they wanted a Top Six finish. This was not achieved, due in no small part to Pardew putting more emphasis on Cup competitions

 

All in all, with ALL that he had at his disposal, he did not set Div 1 alight

 

In my book, HE underachieved, and so did HIS Team. YES, I did enjoy my day out at Wembley, but, as I said many times, the reality was, that the NEXT day, we were STILL a Division One Team

 

THAT fact would have gone down like a Lead Boat with Markus Leibherr and Cortese

[doddisalegend]

I think people should have a rethink about Pardew

 

He came to a Club that had been saved from extinction, had a massive Fan base, a great Stadium and a "Budget" to Build that would have been the envy of most Teams inn the CCC, let alone Div 1

 

The Owners, HIS employers, made no bones about the fact that they wanted a Top Six finish. This was not achieved, due in no small part to Pardew putting more emphasis on Cup competitions

 

All in all, with ALL that he had at his disposal, he did not set Div 1 alight

 

In my book, HE underachieved, and so did HIS Team. YES, I did enjoy my day out at Wembley, but, as I said many times, the reality was, that the NEXT day, we were STILL a Division One Team

 

THAT fact would have gone down like a Lead Boat with Markus Leibherr and Cortese

 

yep I remember the look of pure disgust Markus had at Wembley when we won.

[Professor]

Perhaps, just like us, they do not know WHY he was sacked

 

Astute comment. It does seem likely that if the players did know, so would their WAGS and their WAGS' best friends, and so the rest of us by now. If we assume that the players don't know, and if all they got was something similar to the oficial statement that didn't make sense either in content or timing, its easy to see why they might be as pee'd off asa the rest of us.

 

As Cortese didn't have a replacement lined up, or so it seems, maybe he is hoping to pinch someone who is currently working for another club, but if so its a gamble.

[Topcat]

He had no experience re FOOTBALL as a Businessman

My point is, I do NOT think he is "stupid" enough to dismiss the three people running the First Team, for FOOTBALL RELATED MATTERS, without first lining up Replacements I repeat, it does not compute It would be on a par with McClaren in F1 dumping Hamilton mid season, without having a First Class driver lined up to drive in the next GP

 

It does not compute for an able businessman to do this. But an account manager for a bank is not a businessman and definitely not a business manager. It also does not compute for an able businessman to upset every newspaper through its photography ban.

[solentstars]

Astute comment. It does seem likely that if the players did know, so would their WAGS and their WAGS' best friends, and so the rest of us by now. If we assume that the players don't know, and if all they got was something similar to the oficial statement that didn't make sense either in content or timing, its easy to see why they might be as pee'd off asa the rest of us.

 

As Cortese didn't have a replacement lined up, or so it seems, maybe he is hoping to pinch someone who is currently working for another club, but if so its a gamble.

that seems more realistic then the nonsense hatchet job going on to rubbish him at the moment.