CB Saint Posted 17 December, 2010 Share Posted 17 December, 2010 The Blackburn driver who has used the human rights act to avoid deportation has got me thinking. Is the UK legal system broken and not fit for purpose? A lot of our sytstem is based upon common law and precedent, ie historic rulings. Are these rulings appropriate in a modern society? It seems to me that common sense now plays second fiddle to the exact interpretation of the letter of the law. How you you guarentee justice in this environment? Perhaps we should overhaul the entire system, repealing or update the statute book and start with a blank piece of paper with a more common sense approach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Super Saint Posted 17 December, 2010 Share Posted 17 December, 2010 The UK legal system has been hijacked by the crackpots at the European courts. This is what has broken UK law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anothersaintinsouthsea Posted 17 December, 2010 Share Posted 17 December, 2010 The real issue for me is how you can get such a lenient sentance for a hit and run that leaves a dead person? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 17 December, 2010 Share Posted 17 December, 2010 The real issue for me is how you can get such a lenient sentance for a hit and run that leaves a dead person? I think it has something to do with the fact she was alive when he fled the scene and only died later in hospital. He was only convicted of driving whilst disqualified, and leaving the scene of an accident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liquidshokk Posted 17 December, 2010 Share Posted 17 December, 2010 I was amazed last night watching Road Wars that a big gang of teens were caught with rucksacks full of hundreds of car badges from all sorts of expensive cars and the tools that they used to remove them.... once at the station they were given official cautions and released...... WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!! I know they havent murdered anyone but talk about caught red handed!! I am still infuriated by our law system despite losing all faith in it years ago... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liquidshokk Posted 17 December, 2010 Share Posted 17 December, 2010 I was having a conversation with my mate about this last night actually and agreed that 99% of the problems crippling and destroying this country would be resolved in an instant if our government regained control from europe and became strict with criminals and didnt make going to prison such an easy ride. If it was something that people became fearful of again then crime rates would reduce dramatically, prison overcrowding problem would disappear and millions of pounds less would have to be spent policing the streets... We need to a tough strict government. Those that are innocent and law abiding would not need to be fearful of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 17 December, 2010 Share Posted 17 December, 2010 http://www.thisishampshire.net/news/8738318.Paula_Poolton_s_killer_to_sue_Royal_Mail/ When you read stuff like this (Funded by the tax payer) you can only say "yes" it is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 17 December, 2010 Share Posted 17 December, 2010 I think it has something to do with the fact she was alive when he fled the scene and only died later in hospital. He was only convicted of driving whilst disqualified, and leaving the scene of an accident. Surely that's worse, leaving someone to slowly bleed to death without helping.? Either way the system is ****ed up. The government should introduce a common sense court, a team of judges that can over-rule any other court in the land for cases like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 17 December, 2010 Share Posted 17 December, 2010 I didn't read the details of the case / judgment but I'd guess the judge was swayed by the impact on his two British born children and British wife, rather than the impact of deportation on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warsash saint Posted 17 December, 2010 Share Posted 17 December, 2010 I didn't read the details of the case / judgment but I'd guess the judge was swayed by the impact on his two British born children and British wife, rather than the impact of deportation on him. BUT he married & had his children very handily AFTER he run the poor girl over and the threat of deportation loomed. The law in UK is madness ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 17 December, 2010 Share Posted 17 December, 2010 As the victim's father put it, "If it is so unsafe to send him back to Iraq, what did so many of our soldiers die for ? He fled Saddam, Saddam is dead. The court has upheld his 'human right' to a Family Life, what about mine ?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 17 December, 2010 Share Posted 17 December, 2010 BUT he married & had his children very handily AFTER he run the poor girl over and the threat of deportation loomed. I don't think they are married. He also has convictions for burglary and drug dealing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deppo Posted 17 December, 2010 Share Posted 17 December, 2010 BUT he married & had his children very handily AFTER he run the poor girl over and the threat of deportation loomed. The law in UK is madness ! It is not just the legal system that is broken. It is Britain. we live in Broken Britain. I'm going to coin that phrase. This chap had children (two of them, not just one!) simply to avoid being deported. I'd like to run HIM over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guan 2.0 Posted 17 December, 2010 Share Posted 17 December, 2010 I lean to the left as much as any Liberal guardian reading tree hugger, but this case makes me not only support calls for stronger deportation laws, but also the lessening of the consideration given to the human rights act in these sort of Judgments. I can't believe that any country would think: Blow your beans up some girls muff = Right to stay, is a system worth preserving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 17 December, 2010 Share Posted 17 December, 2010 They had an Ismlaic marriage and not a legal marriage in the UK sense. It is these sorts of decisions which leave ordinary folk, for all sides of the political spectrum, baffled and angry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 17 December, 2010 Share Posted 17 December, 2010 I was having a conversation with my mate about this last night actually and agreed that 99% of the problems crippling and destroying this country would be resolved in an instant if our government regained control from europe and became strict with criminals and didnt make going to prison such an easy ride. If it was something that people became fearful of again then crime rates would reduce dramatically, prison overcrowding problem would disappear and millions of pounds less would have to be spent policing the streets... We need to a tough strict government. Those that are innocent and law abiding would not need to be fearful of it. Tell us about your time in prison then and they easy ride you had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 17 December, 2010 Share Posted 17 December, 2010 Being an asylum seeker and the crimes he committed are totally separate issues. I'm quite glad that justice in our country is not dished out by grieving relatives, now that would be a broken legal system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericb Posted 17 December, 2010 Share Posted 17 December, 2010 just out of interest was he prosecuted to serve time in an english prison? If so then i'd say the English legal system is working as it should be in this case. Since it sounds more like some despotic country that deports people back to semi certain torture or death for committing a crime on thier shores, rather than punish them in situ in accordance with the laws of the land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 17 December, 2010 Share Posted 17 December, 2010 Being an asylum seeker and the crimes he committed are totally separate issues. I'm quite glad that justice in our country is not dished out by grieving relatives, now that would be a broken legal system. So, let's take the children on both sides out of the argument :- We would have a man with convictions for drug dealing, burglary, driving without any form of licence, and for whom the reason for seeking asylum has been removed. What would you do with him ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 17 December, 2010 Share Posted 17 December, 2010 Moral panic! Moral panic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 17 December, 2010 Share Posted 17 December, 2010 So, let's take the children on both sides out of the argument :- We would have a man with convictions for drug dealing, burglary, driving without any form of licence, and for whom the reason for seeking asylum has been removed. What would you do with him ? I'm not the legal system and as I said before crimes committed should be separate from him being an asylum seeker. That does not necessarily represent my personal opinion, but thank god that I am not the law and that the law is a neutral umpire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deppo Posted 17 December, 2010 Share Posted 17 December, 2010 So, let's take the children on both sides out of the argument :- We would have a man with convictions for drug dealing, burglary, driving without any form of licence, and for whom the reason for seeking asylum has been removed. What would you do with him ? Run him over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsbridge Saint Posted 17 December, 2010 Share Posted 17 December, 2010 Everything about the UK legal system has gone to hell in a handcart. The criminal classes can now get away with pretty much anything with impunity. Useless ****ing lawyers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deppo Posted 17 December, 2010 Share Posted 17 December, 2010 Everything about the UK legal system has gone to hell in a handcart. The criminal classes can now get away with pretty much anything with impunity. Useless ****ing lawyers. Surely if criminals are getting away with anything this means the lawyers are the exact opposite of useless? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 17 December, 2010 Share Posted 17 December, 2010 Everything about the UK legal system has gone to hell in a handcart. The criminal classes can now get away with pretty much anything with impunity. Useless ****ing lawyers. http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/jan/21/police-figures-unexpected-drop-crime http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2010/apr/23/early-release-prison-numbers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Super Saint Posted 17 December, 2010 Share Posted 17 December, 2010 http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/jan/21/police-figures-unexpected-drop-crime http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2010/apr/23/early-release-prison-numbers Are you suggesting the new gov't policies on crime are being so effective so quickly? Besides, I wouldn't trust an article that manages to confuse murder, with it's American cousin homicide, and then spell homicide incorrectly. It stinks on poor journalism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericb Posted 17 December, 2010 Share Posted 17 December, 2010 Everything about the UK legal system has gone to hell in a handcart. The criminal classes can now get away with pretty much anything with impunity. Useless ****ing lawyers. I tend to make a policy of not listening to anyone that use the term hell in a handcart or pc gone mad. Normally they're perfectly linked with a lack of intelligence on the part of the person saying it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franny Posted 17 December, 2010 Share Posted 17 December, 2010 Surely if criminals are getting away with anything this means the lawyers are the exact opposite of useless? Not nessecarily, depends whether they are prosecuting or defending Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Saint Posted 17 December, 2010 Author Share Posted 17 December, 2010 Being an asylum seeker and the crimes he committed are totally separate issues. I'm quite glad that justice in our country is not dished out by grieving relatives, now that would be a broken legal system. I completely agree with what you say, however it seems to me that cases are judged by the letter of the law and not the spirit of the law. Unfortunately that leads to defence lawyers (ab)using loopholes to wriggle out of a charge when in fact their client is guilty. That bloke who gets celebs off of driving convictions is a prime example of that. The human rights act is one that completely abused and should be the first act to be replaced. for example http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-12009111 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guan 2.0 Posted 17 December, 2010 Share Posted 17 December, 2010 http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/jan/21/police-figures-unexpected-drop-crime http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2010/apr/23/early-release-prison-numbers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mightysaints Posted 17 December, 2010 Share Posted 17 December, 2010 Also remember who's wife has made a fortune in Human Rights cases...Yep Cherrie Blaire and her Matrix Group lawyers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 18 December, 2010 Share Posted 18 December, 2010 The Blackburn driver who has used the human rights act to avoid deportation has got me thinking. Is the UK legal system broken and not fit for purpose? A lot of our sytstem is based upon common law and precedent, ie historic rulings. Are these rulings appropriate in a modern society? It seems to me that common sense now plays second fiddle to the exact interpretation of the letter of the law. How you you guarentee justice in this environment? Perhaps we should overhaul the entire system, repealing or update the statute book and start with a blank piece of paper with a more common sense approach If this ruling has got you thinking then it's funny that you refer to common law and precedent given that this ruling revolves around a fairly recent piece of European legislation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 18 December, 2010 Share Posted 18 December, 2010 I was amazed last night watching Road Wars that a big gang of teens were caught with rucksacks full of hundreds of car badges from all sorts of expensive cars and the tools that they used to remove them.... once at the station they were given official cautions and released...... WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!! I know they havent murdered anyone but talk about caught red handed!! I am still infuriated by our law system despite losing all faith in it years ago... TBF, I don't think that's anything to do with the legal system per se, sounds more like a case of the police involved being not bothered to do their job properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 18 December, 2010 Share Posted 18 December, 2010 http://www.thisishampshire.net/news/8738318.Paula_Poolton_s_killer_to_sue_Royal_Mail/ When you read stuff like this (Funded by the tax payer) you can only say "yes" it is What is funded by the tax payer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Saint Posted 18 December, 2010 Author Share Posted 18 December, 2010 If this ruling has got you thinking then it's funny that you refer to common law and precedent given that this ruling revolves around a fairly recent piece of European legislation. Glad I cheered you up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liquidshokk Posted 18 December, 2010 Share Posted 18 December, 2010 TBF, I don't think that's anything to do with the legal system per se, sounds more like a case of the police involved being not bothered to do their job properly. All contributes to giving crims the impression they can do what they like in this country and get away with it though. When at that age they need it drumming into them that they can't. Level of strictness needs an overhaul imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 18 December, 2010 Share Posted 18 December, 2010 All contributes to giving crims the impression they can do what they like in this country and get away with it though. When at that age they need it drumming into them that they can't. Level of strictness needs an overhaul imo. I agree but that's not the legal system it's police policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 18 December, 2010 Share Posted 18 December, 2010 Also remember who's wife has made a fortune in Human Rights cases...Yep Cherrie Blaire and her Matrix Group lawyers I agree. Let's ban all human rights in order to stop Cherie getting her fees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liquidshokk Posted 18 December, 2010 Share Posted 18 December, 2010 I agree but that's not the legal system it's police policy. But surely the police don't take that sort of thing to court cos they know it will be thrown out? That's if it even gets that far after cps don't deem it worth going to court for (again cos they know they won't get punished for it) I just think on a law level punishments are inconsistent for different crimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 18 December, 2010 Share Posted 18 December, 2010 But surely the police don't take that sort of thing to court cos they know it will be thrown out? That's if it even gets that far after cps don't deem it worth going to court for (again cos they know they won't get punished for it) I just think on a law level punishments are inconsistent for different crimes. It won't be thrown out. They might think it's not worth it because the sentence will not be significant. Again, that's not really the fault of the legal system, more to do with sentencing policy which is politically driven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liquidshokk Posted 18 December, 2010 Share Posted 18 December, 2010 It won't be thrown out. They might think it's not worth it because the sentence will not be significant. Again, that's not really the fault of the legal system, more to do with sentencing policy which is politically driven. Ok fair enough well it all sucks :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Bateman Posted 18 December, 2010 Share Posted 18 December, 2010 Moral panic! Moral panic! Boring pr*ck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 18 December, 2010 Share Posted 18 December, 2010 Boring pr*ck. How lovely, normanbates. It must really offend you when someone doesn't share your rage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 18 December, 2010 Share Posted 18 December, 2010 European Courts should have no power in Britain. That is what is wrong. We're not some fledgling democracy that needs to be told what to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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