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The Cortese Tax - OFT probe into firms 'profiting from plastic'


dune

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Cortese could have just hidden this 'tax' in the ticket price and been dishonest.

 

What is honest about charging a booking fee over and above the cost of P+P?

 

And some will pipe up and say the cost of the call centre is part of the fee, but I would argue that the cost of manning an in house ticket office is more than the cost of outsourcing to a call centre. Therefore it costs less per ticket to sell it online/over the phone than at the stadium.

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What is honest about charging a booking fee over and above the cost of P+P?

 

And some will pipe up and say the cost of the call centre is part of the fee, but I would argue that the cost of manning an in house ticket office is more than the cost of outsourcing to a call centre. Therefore it costs less per ticket to sell it online/over the phone than at the stadium.

 

If you want to buy a ticket then that's what it costs...my Peterborough tickets cost £43 & were delivered to Suffolk the next day - superb service. If I still lived around the SO code I'd either collect or get a mate to...it's a choice & I'm happy to have.

 

If you don't like one method then there are the others - if you don't like any of them then you're at the wrong club!

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If you want to buy a ticket then that's what it costs...my Peterborough tickets cost £43 & were delivered to Suffolk the next day - superb service. If I still lived around the SO code I'd either collect or get a mate to...it's a choice & I'm happy to have.

 

If you don't like one method then there are the others - if you don't like any of them then you're at the wrong club!

 

It was a superb service before the tax.

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even if it was £3 higher..?

 

The club are going to charge what they like anyway, but i'd rather it be one rate. At present it's a con. Especially for fixtures where there is no option but to pay the tax, i.e Bournemouth away.

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The club are going to charge what they like anyway, but i'd rather it be one rate. At present it's a con. Especially for fixtures where there is no option but to pay the tax, i.e Bournemouth away.

 

you would just rather pay the "tax" but not know about it..?

 

Yeah, what f*cking difference does it make if you pay the £3 as "tax" or included in the price? At least this way there IS a way to avoid paying it.

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That would depend on whether you think the actual price for the ticket "should" include Cortese Tax or not.

 

So far I have managed to avoid paying it even once this season because I think it's a ripoff, but looks like I'm going to have no choice for AFCB tickets (assuming I qualify), in which case why pretend the actual ticket price is "X" when you HAVE to pay more ?

 

As for "everyone else does it", well that's why they're investigating it.

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Yeah, what f*cking difference does it make if you pay the £3 as "tax" or included in the price? At least this way there IS a way to avoid paying it.

 

But haven't there been occasions when tickets have not been sold on the day (meaning those living away have no alternative) and certainly for this Bournemouth game it would appear that some times there is no alternative. On a single adult Bournemouth ticket, this £3 charge equates to a 16% surcharge (30% for an U 16).

 

Maybe some will say the sums involved aren't huge (maybe not, but over a seasonthey soon add up)

 

others will say that the money is going back in to the Club (and tug on the heart strings the way some councils have done by suggesting services would have to be cut without these fees),

 

others will say why not just raise the average ticket price (as with the heart strings argument above, if the money is going to the Club then why not ask us all to pay a bit more every time we attend as the Club will benefit even more)

 

whilst others will say that selling tickets is a normal part of a "business" and why should certain parts of the fanbase be charged extra (is transaction per ticket that much more expensive over the phone/in writing Vs personal visits to the Ticket Office???).

 

As far as I'm aware the Club don't charge for credit card/debit card transactions (I'm sure I didn't pay extra when I bought my ST by credit card did I???), but they certainly charge a booking fee, which I think is somewhat discriminatory and a tad OTT.

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I thought Tories LOVED tax?

 

Erm, no, the opposite in fact : they're in favour of a free market, private sector provision of the kind of services that taxes usually pay for, and lower taxation (especially for those who significantly profit from the free economy).

 

But they don't always inherit a global economic crisis.

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Yeah, what f*cking difference does it make if you pay the £3 as "tax" or included in the price? At least this way there IS a way to avoid paying it.

 

You'd have to be pretty naive to think the ticket tax was brought in to keep prices down. It was brought in to squeeze more money out of fans. Just like the surcharge on matchday purchases was brought in to squeeze more money out of fans.

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The original post is a crock because the link refers to specific charges being applied to the payment method (ie. you pay £2.50 if you pay by Credit Card, £3.50 by Amex etc.). Saints don't do this.

 

Saints charge a fee for the service of having someone to take your order (or - for the pedants - keep the servers online that capture it), having someone print it out, put it in an envelope, put a stamp on it and send it out. That cost doesn't go away if the ticket 'tax' goes away, the price just goes up.

 

Saints use an outsourced service for their callcentre and this will be directly charged to the club (that I assume is why there's no charge on walk ups because the cost of putting someone behind the window is negligible.).

 

If you put the price of the ticket up that means that:

- everyone pays, walk up or not.

- everyone pays on every ticket, rather than every transaction.

 

The ticket 'tax' isn't unfair, quite the opposite. It is transparent - you are paying for what you get.

 

Ignorance is bliss - but it's also ****ing stupid.

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Maybe, but personally i'd rather there was just one price.

On some theatre tickets you have to pay a "Booking Fee" AND an "Admin Fee" PER TICKET. Yes it is a way of ripping the public off, but at least it is a £3 fee per booking not per ticket at SMS. Sadly it is the way things are nowadays but as someone else said at least Saints are upfront about it and there are ways to avoid it.

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But haven't there been occasions when tickets have not been sold on the day (meaning those living away have no alternative) and certainly for this Bournemouth game it would appear that some times there is no alternative. On a single adult Bournemouth ticket, this £3 charge equates to a 16% surcharge (30% for an U 16).

 

Maybe some will say the sums involved aren't huge (maybe not, but over a seasonthey soon add up)

 

others will say that the money is going back in to the Club (and tug on the heart strings the way some councils have done by suggesting services would have to be cut without these fees),

 

others will say why not just raise the average ticket price (as with the heart strings argument above, if the money is going to the Club then why not ask us all to pay a bit more every time we attend as the Club will benefit even more)

 

whilst others will say that selling tickets is a normal part of a "business" and why should certain parts of the fanbase be charged extra (is transaction per ticket that much more expensive over the phone/in writing Vs personal visits to the Ticket Office???).

 

As far as I'm aware the Club don't charge for credit card/debit card transactions (I'm sure I didn't pay extra when I bought my ST by credit card did I???), but they certainly charge a booking fee, which I think is somewhat discriminatory and a tad OTT.

I knew you would chip in with one of your subtle digs.......................

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Saints charge a fee for the service of having someone to take your order (or - for the pedants - keep the servers online that capture it), having someone print it out, put it in an envelope, put a stamp on it and send it out. That cost doesn't go away if the ticket 'tax' goes away, the price just goes up.

 

Saints use an outsourced service for their callcentre and this will be directly charged to the club (that I assume is why there's no charge on walk ups because the cost of putting someone behind the window is negligible.).

 

But there is a service when people walk up to the window. As a cost per transaction, I would venture that is comparable (if not cheaper) to go via a call centre.

 

I think it would be fair to charge P & P as that is an additional cost incurred, but the £3 is OTT.

 

(PS I'm sure I've got through to the ticket office itself when I have used the ticket line on occasions).

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What is honest about charging a booking fee over and above the cost of P+P?

 

And some will pipe up and say the cost of the call centre is part of the fee, but I would argue that the cost of manning an in house ticket office is more than the cost of outsourcing to a call centre. Therefore it costs less per ticket to sell it online/over the phone than at the stadium.

 

no different to what your tory chums have done to us all, what is honest about charging us over £1.30 a litre of petrol, for example.

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On some theatre tickets you have to pay a "Booking Fee" AND an "Admin Fee" PER TICKET. Yes it is a way of ripping the public off, but at least it is a £3 fee per booking not per ticket at SMS. Sadly it is the way things are nowadays but as someone else said at least Saints are upfront about it and there are ways to avoid it.

 

How could you avoid it for bournemouth away, or the JPT final? In the case of the JPT final the club charged a £3 booking fee per ticket!

 

The fact is that as the club progresses there is a likelihood that these situations will arise more frequently.

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I knew you would chip in with one of your subtle digs.......................

 

Subtle digs.......

 

My, you do live in a strange world where people aren't allowed to discuss issues.

 

In the interests of fairness, feel free to stalk me on other threads where I have been supportive and understanding of the Club and its Officers (Staplewood, Cortese on Chamberlain, Bournemouth away etc).

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whether we like it or not there is going to be cost incurred to saints for allowing people to book tickets (staff, post, processing etc) and they as a business are entitled to make money on it. the fact is they are offering a servicde that allows you to avoid that cost if you want to. why do people get so hung up on it whether its optional or included within the overall price.

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whether we like it or not there is going to be cost incurred to saints for allowing people to book tickets (staff, post, processing etc) and they as a business are entitled to make money on it.

 

There is a cost incurred allowing people to book tickets at the ticket office, but this cost is absorbed in the "normal" price. I don't think anyone would have a problem with any incremental costs (e.g. postage) being passed on, but £3 a pop, I'm not so sure.

 

the fact is they are offering a servicde that allows you to avoid that cost if you want to. why do people get so hung up on it whether its optional or included within the overall price.

 

I'm sure that for some matches you can't avoid it, (particularly if you live a distance from SMS and buying on the day will see you charged an extra £2). Are ticket prices that inelastic??? Is £3 on top going to put people off??? Are certain sections of our fanbase adversely affected by this??? Are prices at the upper limit anyway???

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The original post is a crock because the link refers to specific charges being applied to the payment method (ie. you pay £2.50 if you pay by Credit Card, £3.50 by Amex etc.). Saints don't do this.

 

Saints charge a fee for the service of having someone to take your order (or - for the pedants - keep the servers online that capture it), having someone print it out, put it in an envelope, put a stamp on it and send it out. That cost doesn't go away if the ticket 'tax' goes away, the price just goes up.

 

Saints use an outsourced service for their callcentre and this will be directly charged to the club (that I assume is why there's no charge on walk ups because the cost of putting someone behind the window is negligible.).

 

If you put the price of the ticket up that means that:

- everyone pays, walk up or not.

- everyone pays on every ticket, rather than every transaction.

 

The ticket 'tax' isn't unfair, quite the opposite. It is transparent - you are paying for what you get.

 

Ignorance is bliss - but it's also ****ing stupid.

 

This ignores that the pricing of tickets is also determined by various aspects of supply and demand such as the league we're in, how successful we're expected to be, and a variety of other determinants (like, say, how easy it is to pay for a Season Ticket in one hit with under a month's notice to find the money).

 

We were in the same division as the season before, using the same systems and methods of ticket payment and sales for individual matches.

 

So why did individual match prices go up AND there was suddenly an additional charge for booking when the systems were the same ?

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Just a reminder that it is £3 per transaction not £3 per ticket.

 

When we bought our Cup tickets we did it as a group and only paid one £3 fee.

 

I consider it is a shame the cost cannot be absorbed in the price of a ticket but outsourcing costs money and the fee covers that. The benefit to the club is the pressure is passed to the outsoursing company, no employment issues, no employer NI costs, no pension contributions, no employemt law problems like laying employees off.

 

They keep a small number of employees to deal with walk up tickets and they will have other duties when not needed in that area.

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**** me - this is such a non thread.

 

The original article (daily fail again), pops up with an article about ripping off people via 'supercharges' on credit card.

 

Some of the usual suspects (who have gone very quiet since Adkins revealed he wasn't aware of any ban for the 125th event, would have loved to have seen how that thread would have looked had it not been locked), have used this as an excuse to **** and moan about the 'ticket tax' which a) is not the same thing, and they know it, and b) avoidable, in all but a few rare cases.

 

There's playing devils advocate, there's becoming a serial contrarian.

 

And then there's looking for fault with everything the man does.

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But there is a service when people walk up to the window. As a cost per transaction, I would venture that is comparable (if not cheaper) to go via a call centre.

 

I think it would be fair to charge P & P as that is an additional cost incurred, but the £3 is OTT.

 

(PS I'm sure I've got through to the ticket office itself when I have used the ticket line on occasions).

 

Isn't part of the issue that there's a cost to providing the service of a staffed ticket office whether people actually use it or not ? I can't imagine that it's cheaper to have the lights on, kettle boiling, computers at the ready and employees there 9-5 on some weekdays when we don't have a home match for a few weeks just on the off-chance that someone pitches up - though I admit I have no idea what else the ticket office staff are meant to do in their working day.

 

Though as I now find myself suggesting that there should be additional cost for at-window callers, I think I'm going to wind my neck in... on reflection maybe what I want is for us to get rid of all additional ticket costs (except P&P at face value).

 

It's neither here nor there to me whether the cost is added or up front, the club can do what it wants regarding pricing, provided the overall concept is fair and non-exploitative. At the moment, it seems to discriminate against people who can't get to the ground during the week, which also happens to correlate with the group easiest put off attending due to distance travelled, and they are the people with the highest per-game attending costs already due to their transport needs.

 

Hardly "fair" and just a little short-sighted in terms of perpetuating the fan base, especially when Saints' match attendees are one of the most geographically dispersed fan bases already.

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**** me - this is such a non thread.

 

The original article (daily fail again), pops up with an article about ripping off people via 'supercharges' on credit card.

 

Some of the usual suspects (who have gone very quiet since Adkins revealed he wasn't aware of any ban for the 125th event, would have loved to have seen how that thread would have looked had it not been locked), have used this as an excuse to **** and moan about the 'ticket tax' which a) is not the same thing, and they know it, and b) avoidable, in all but a few rare cases.

 

There's playing devils advocate, there's becoming a serial contrarian.

 

And then there's looking for fault with everything the man does.

 

I think you'll find we call it the "Cortese Tax".

 

And I'm quite proud that it's caught on. :)

 

Also, as I said, no-one is disputing the lack of credit card charge, but that's the nature of thread drift.

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I think you'll find we call it the "Cortese Tax".

 

And I'm quite proud that it's caught on. :)

 

Also, as I said, no-one is disputing the lack of credit card charge, but that's the nature of thread drift.

 

'Thread drift'? You mean taking one thing, posting it here, and then moaning about a completley different issue in the first post?

 

That's not drift that's just lazy. No reason if Dune couldn't have forgone the mail article.

 

But I guess it's better to link an arguement to something potentially illegal, even if it has nothing to do with the issue at hand, to try and prop up your argueent (such as it is).

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Isn't part of the issue that there's a cost to providing the service of a staffed ticket office whether people actually use it or not ? I can't imagine that it's cheaper to have the lights on, kettle boiling, computers at the ready and employees there 9-5 on some weekdays when we don't have a home match for a few weeks just on the off-chance that someone pitches up - though I admit I have no idea what else the ticket office staff are meant to do in their working day.

 

Though as I now find myself suggesting that there should be additional cost for at-window callers

 

I would venture that you may well be right in that I would guess that it would be cheaper to outsource all your ticketing operations (and insist on a premium if bought in person at the ticket office!!!!!!). However, the downside could well be a fall off in numbers if people still demanded that personal service. But I think this point does highlight that I very much doubt that the transaction cost per ticket is any more expensive on the phone than it is in person (P&P excluded).

 

It's neither here nor there to me whether the cost is added or up front, the club can do what it wants regarding pricing, provided the overall concept is fair and non-exploitative. At the moment, it seems to discriminate against people who can't get to the ground during the week, which also happens to correlate with the group easiest put off attending due to distance travelled, and they are the people with the highest per-game attending costs already due to their transport needs.

 

Hardly "fair" and just a little short-sighted in terms of perpetuating the fan base, especially when Saints' match attendees are one of the most geographically dispersed fan bases already.

 

I'm sure you could always just quote "supply and demand" and set any price you see fit, but as you say I think there has to be an element of fairness and equitability in our pricing structure and I'm just not convinced this booking fee is fair.

 

As you quite rightly point out, there is a section of our fanbase who are adversely affected by this fee and they are probably the ones already laden with the highest transport costs (and also probably with the easiest excuse not to come - travelling time). Should we not be looking for every opportunity to encourage people to come as opposed to potentially hitting certain sub-sections with an additional cost?

 

Or is this small fee just that, a small fee, that doesn't discourage people either way (of course, the counter argument to that would be to start throwing in a Ticket Office booking fee if prices are that inelastic).

 

Finally, what is sad is that for some people an honest and upfront debate about issues that affect supporters is somehow seen as disloyal, offensive or counter productive.

 

I would counter that by having such debates it may be possible to find a better solution, one from which we all benefit (the Club included). I would also suggest it is somewhat draconian to start suggesting that certain topics (or even individuals) are off limits.

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Talking of Tax......

 

If you evade paying it you will end up facing charges and get a date in court.

 

Just like wht Arry, Storrie and imagrant have got!!! SNN just said they failed to get the charges dropped so will face court later this year.

 

Back on subject... I cant see the problem with the ticket tax as if things are meant to be transparrent then you need to know its there and how much it is. It might be better if they charged say £20 per ticket and have it state that it includes the £3 tax but that wouldnt give the option of not paying it if you can buy the ticket directly.

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**** me - this is such a non thread.

 

The original article (daily fail again), pops up with an article about ripping off people via 'supercharges' on credit card.

 

Some of the usual suspects (who have gone very quiet since Adkins revealed he wasn't aware of any ban for the 125th event, would have loved to have seen how that thread would have looked had it not been locked), have used this as an excuse to **** and moan about the 'ticket tax' which a) is not the same thing, and they know it, and b) avoidable, in all but a few rare cases.

 

There's playing devils advocate, there's becoming a serial contrarian.

 

And then there's looking for fault with everything the man does.

 

Exactly the same thoughts occurred to me too. Especially when the thread title was labelled the Cortese tax.

 

And you say that Adkins has denied that the players have been banned from attending the 125th event? Where was that link? As you say, it's all gone quiet over there. Will we be having some apologies from those who went off at half-cock and got it wrong?

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Exactly the same thoughts occurred to me too. Especially when the thread title was labelled the Cortese tax.

 

And you say that Adkins has denied that the players have been banned from attending the 125th event? Where was that link? As you say, it's all gone quiet over there. Will we be having some apologies from those who went off at half-cock and got it wrong?

 

Yeah i don't think we will be seeing an apology somehow! If they got an axe to grind just them then grind it. Most normal people base their opinion of someone on the performance of the job they are employed to do. Not on what it say's on the back of a newspaper! Next week it will be something else, that will probably turn out to be "exaggerated" too. But only after 12 pages of course ;)

 

On the Cortese Tax thing. I hope it is stamped out as it is wrong to charge you for using your card. All service type places do it these day's. But there is a lesson in there, get a debit card!

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