Why we are not as good as we thought.

[CLOTH EARS]

If you look at our players man for man, on paper we should be where Brighton are BUT we are not. There is no doubt that if you had 9,10 or 11 of our players playing to the peak of their ability in a game then we would be unbeatable at this level. The problem appears to me to be that our 'key' players too often have 5/10 or 6/10 games when we require 8/10 from them.

 

For the 1st example i'll use Dean Hammond. Out of every 10 games that he plays, how many 'good' games does he have ? The same question goes for Rickie Lambert, Morgan Scniederlin, AOC, Guly, Fonte, Harding, in fact we could go through all of the players and ask the same question.. I think we'd all agree that if they play to the best of their ability they are more than adequate for this level, but they do not reach the required level often enough. In short our 'key' players especially are not consistent enough, Why?...........................over to you!

[Jonnyboy]

If you look at our players man for man, on paper we should be where Brighton are BUT we are not. There is no doubt that if you had 9,10 or 11 of our players playing to the peak of their ability in a game then we would be unbeatable at this level. The problem appears to me to be that our 'key' players too often have 5/10 or 6/10 games when we require 8/10 from them.

 

For the 1st example i'll use Dean Hammond. Out of every 10 games that he plays, how many 'good' games does he have ? The same question goes for Rickie Lambert, Morgan Scniederlin, AOC, Guly, Fonte, Harding, in fact we could go through all of the players and ask the same question.. I think we'd all agree that if they play to the best of their ability they are more than adequate for this level, but they do not reach the required level often enough. In short our 'key' players especially are not consistent enough, Why?...........................over to you!

 

where is this evidence on paper that our players are so good? (other than we might have overpaid for some of them?) everyone reels this line out and Im starting to doubt what Ive been fed.

[rocknrollman no2]

I think this subject is being discussed on the "Just back from the game" thread.

[Barry the Badger]

Or is it just that we sacked a manager just a few games into the season and went on a shocking run that's still costing us now?

 

It's been shown that since the managerial situation was sorted, we have been as good as anybody.

[Saint Fan CaM]

It may be an individual player thing, but I am more convinced it's a collective team thing...possibly connected with the Manager and Coaches in some way. One player having a bad day at the office could be covered by our other fantatistic players, but it's not like that.

 

In fact the one thing that I have thought all along is that, to get out of this league, you don't need highly skilled players - you need players that can be motivated to play out of their skins...to fight beyond their individual merits for their manager, the club, the supporters, even the Chairman. That's why Bompey are where they are. It's why Adkins was able to get Scunny into the CCC. Unfortunately, the make-up of our squad generally does not appear to match this profile. Perhaps our players are too clever to be fooled by the Managers rhetoric?!

[SaintRichmond]

If you look at our players man for man, on paper we should be where Brighton are BUT we are not. There is no doubt that if you had 9,10 or 11 of our players playing to the peak of their ability in a game then we would be unbeatable at this level. The problem appears to me to be that our 'key' players too often have 5/10 or 6/10 games when we require 8/10 from them.

 

For the 1st example i'll use Dean Hammond. Out of every 10 games that he plays, how many 'good' games does he have ? The same question goes for Rickie Lambert, Morgan Scniederlin, AOC, Guly, Fonte, Harding, in fact we could go through all of the players and ask the same question.. I think we'd all agree that if they play to the best of their ability they are more than adequate for this level, but they do not reach the required level often enough. In short our 'key' players especially are not consistent enough, Why?...........................over to you!

 

 

Ten Reasons why Saints are not as good as they thought

 

1) The players think that they are too good for Div 1, and just have to run out on the pitch

 

2 -10 .......... see 1)

 

Simples

[alpine_saint]

Ten Reasons why Saints are not as good as they thought

 

1) The players think that they are too good for Div 1, and just have to run out on the pitch

 

2 -10 .......... see 1)

 

Simples

 

It is beginning to look like that. Bournemouth lost their manager, and the difference in form before/after was seamless

[alpine_saint]

Or is it just that we sacked a manager just a few games into the season and went on a shocking run that's still costing us now?

 

It's been shown that since the managerial situation was sorted, we have been as good as anybody.

 

Why did it affect us at all (re: Bournemouth) ?

 

All sorts wrong at Saints, manager a little out of his depth, players with stinking attitude problems.

[Window Cleaner]

Why did it affect us at all (re: Bournemouth) ?

 

All sorts wrong at Saints, manager a little out of his depth, players with stinking attitude problems.

 

Perhaps because our in house replacement was utterly useless and still is.When we get rid of Wilkins it will be a great occasion for SFC.

In my opinion we need to get shot of Wilkins and Les Reed and see what happens.

[SaintRichmond]

Perhaps because our in house replacement was utterly useless and still is.When we get rid of Wilkins it will be a great occasion for SFC.

In my opinion we need to get shot of Wilkins and Les Reed and see what happens.

 

 

I wonder if Nicola Cortese realises just how detrimental those two Bookends are being to POSITIVE thinking

 

Mind you, we could have ended up with Risdale

[Crispypie]

 

 

I wonder if Nicola Cortese realises just how detrimental those two Bookends are being to POSITIVE thinking

 

Mind you, we could have ended up with Risdale

 

I have probably missed something but what is this based on? Im not saying you are wrong, and i know very little about these two. So why are they so detrimental?

[OVER THE HILL]

I have probably missed something but what is this based on? Im not saying you are wrong, and i know very little about these two. So why are they so detrimental?

 

My thoughts exactly! They are very experienced and I'm sure Nicola would have got rid of them if they were'nt up to the job.

[Son of Bob]

The reason we are not doing as well as we should is because NA hasn't got a clue how to motivate his players. Simple as that.

[rpb]

Actually we have never been as good as we think we are...

[Barry the Badger]

The reason we are not doing as well as we should is because NA hasn't got a clue how to motivate his players. Simple as that.

 

Our league position suggests he does have a clue, although could definitely do better.

[davej27]

Apart from 2 - 3 consistent players the remainder are good but inconsistent hence why they play in league one

[Son of Bob]

I'm not saying he's a bad Manager, he just has difficulty motivating the players. You can make a team play well by training them well. You can make a team play well with tactics and team selection. The problem is that unless the players are 100% motivated and would run to the 4 corners of the world for their Manager they'll never be the team they could be.

[Window Cleaner]

I'm not saying he's a bad Manager, he just has difficulty motivating the players. You can make a team play well by training them well. You can make a team play well with tactics and team selection. The problem is that unless the players are 100% motivated and would run to the 4 corners of the world for their Manager they'll never be the team they could be.

 

It just isn't that simple though,we keep suffering these results because we do not convert our goal chances.It's a recurrent pattern, it happened on Day 1 of the season and it's happened again on Day 31 with sporadic recurrences in between.We need a striker who strikes about every other game,this is not Lambert because if you take away the 6 penalties and the deflected free kick his tally is 8 from 30 in League games, compare that to Murray or Mackail-Smith or a couple of others who don't take penalties and the goal haul of our principal striker is alarmingly poor. We need a striker and have all season.That we didn't do something about that in the transfer window is negligent .

[Saint-Fred]

"Why we are not as good as we thought?"

 

I never knew why other supporters thought us as arrogant until I read this thread!

[West End Saint]

We have got a very good side and we were everybody's favorite for top spot there are not many of our players you would swap in this league we have at times played very well.

 

We just have not been consistent for me that is it in a nutshell to win any league you must have it I dont know the reason why we havent maybe it is lots of things.

 

IF we can find some winning form week in week out it can still be done we still do have good players & a good team but they need to step up & prove it.

[Dig Dig]

Two key reasons for me...

 

1) Lack of leadership to drag players through the difficult games/periods of games.

2) We are lacking another striker. We have Lambert and Barnard as our only out and out strikers. I think we can forget Connolly and Guly is more of an attacking midfielder and can't be relied upon as an out and out striker

[up and away]

It's relatively easy at this stage to see what is going wrong, it's another to do anything about it. There are several contributing factors in individual errors, the midfield and the inability of the strikers to put the ball in the net.

 

For individual errors Davis prompts immediately, Fonte wanting to do everyone else's job and one off's from every other member that cost a goal and blight an otherwise good performance. You can go on about who you prefer at full back, but of the 4 available all have done a job for us at some time that there is not much in it. Some better defensively, some a better passer.

 

The midfield has always been a problem, with either Schneiderlin, Hammond or Chaplow doing, or not doing a job for us. This has not been helped by Adkins playing with two wingers against a 4 or 5 man opposition midfield. We just lose control and the pressure becomes too great to handle. If both those wingers are pulling the opposition apart there is no issue as they have too much on their plate, the problem arises when they are not exerting this pressure.

 

Then the forwards Lambert and Barnard, who's primary aim is to score goals, both have been a big let down this season. When is the last time Lee went on any sort of a run? I have seen performances where everyone is saying he must start the next game, only to fail to take that into a two game run even. The biggest disappointment has been Ricky, you are there to score goals primarily and just not delivered this season. I have come to the conclusion with Ricky that his lack of pace blunts our attacks and most of the time he is too far away from goal to threaten. We all remember his brilliant goal where he cut in from the right and blasted it into the net, but what a rarity. You can keep talking about Ricky the provider as long as you want, but it's a goal scorer we want.

 

Adkins has let too many things drag on far too long to be exempt of criticism, with Ricky in the first half of the season being the biggest issue. Overall I don't believe there is a lot in it between Pardew and Adkins, but Pardew made two monumental errors that either deserved the sack. Adkins has an overall plus in my book and absolutely no need to consider his position even though he has not been perfect. I have to give Ricky the benefit of the doubt because unless he turns into that 30 goal striker we are all done. I thought Ricky had turned the corner (and still hope) with some of his goals in February and we will need that or the play offs may start to be beyond us. We have to stick with Ricky now, our success and his looks inseperable.

 

This team needs over hauling should we go up, with only a few really pulling their weight. We are no where near the levels of Norwich or Leeds last season. On individual games we can make them look like no hopers, but we have never gone on a run of any parallel to either of them and why we cannot expect the same results should we make it into the Championship.

[Barry the Badger]

I think Lambert is a big part of the answer. Last season he was astonishingly good for us, moments of magic, free kicks, long rangers winning games when we were never going to score otherwise. This season he's got the odd goal but is nothing like the player from last season.

[derry]

It just isn't that simple though,we keep suffering these results because we do not convert our goal chances.It's a recurrent pattern, it happened on Day 1 of the season and it's happened again on Day 31 with sporadic recurrences in between.We need a striker who strikes about every other game,this is not Lambert because if you take away the 6 penalties and the deflected free kick his tally is 8 from 30 in League games, compare that to Murray or Mackail-Smith or a couple of others who don't take penalties and the goal haul of our principal striker is alarmingly poor. We need a striker and have all season.That we didn't do something about that in the transfer window is negligent .

 

This is a major problem. He has created goals but he doesn't bust a gut to get into the goal area. We as a team also never seem to go on runs that one, are designed to move defenders out of the way and secondly into the goal area time after time on the chance of picking something up. The same at throwins and free kicks a lot of players just stand around with the taker pleading for movement. If everybody moved it would open things up but we don't do it.

[for_heaven's_Saint]

"Why we are not as good as we thought?"

 

I never knew why other supporters thought us as arrogant until I read this thread!

 

How does us saying that we're not as good as we thought we were make us arrogant?

[Window Cleaner]

I

 

 

 

 

 

Adkins has let too many things drag on far too long to be exempt of criticism, with Ricky in the first half of the season being the biggest issue. Overall I don't believe there is a lot in it between Pardew and Adkins, but Pardew made two monumental errors that either deserved the sack. Adkins has an overall plus in my book and absolutely no need to consider his position even though he has not been perfect. I have to give Ricky the benefit of the doubt because unless he turns into that 30 goal striker we are all done. I thought Ricky had turned the corner (and still hope) with some of his goals in February and we will need that or the play offs may start to be beyond us. We have to stick with Ricky now, our success and his looks inseperable.

 

This team needs over hauling should we go up, with only a few really pulling their weight. We are no where near the levels of Norwich or Leeds last season. On individual games we can make them look like no hopers, but we have never gone on a run of any parallel to either of them and why we cannot expect the same results should we make it into the Championship.

 

And these monumental errors were?

[SaintRichmond]

If you look at our players man for man, on paper we should be where Brighton are BUT we are not. There is no doubt that if you had 9,10 or 11 of our players playing to the peak of their ability in a game then we would be unbeatable at this level. The problem appears to me to be that our 'key' players too often have 5/10 or 6/10 games when we require 8/10 from them.

 

For the 1st example i'll use Dean Hammond. Out of every 10 games that he plays, how many 'good' games does he have ? The same question goes for Rickie Lambert, Morgan Scniederlin, AOC, Guly, Fonte, Harding, in fact we could go through all of the players and ask the same question.. I think we'd all agree that if they play to the best of their ability they are more than adequate for this level, but they do not reach the required level often enough. In short our 'key' players especially are not consistent enough, Why?...........................over to you!

 

 

Delusions of Grandeur

 

They all think they are far far better than they are

 

Results like Tuesday should bring it home to them, but I doubt it

 

I think Cortese should review the Five Year Plan

 

If nothing else, he should get rid of Lou Read, a complete waste of space, who, like Risdale, has only brought Doom and Gloom to whatever Club they have been associated with

[derry]

Delusions of Grandeur

 

They all think they are far far better than they are

 

Results like Tuesday should bring it home to them, but I doubt it

 

I think Cortese should review the Five Year Plan

 

If nothing else, he should get rid of Lou Read, a complete waste of space, who, like Risdale, has only brought Doom and Gloom to whatever Club they have been associated with

 

Is that Les Reed?

[Window Cleaner]

Delusions of Grandeur

 

They all think they are far far better than they are

 

Results like Tuesday should bring it home to them, but I doubt it

 

I think Cortese should review the Five Year Plan

 

If nothing else, he should get rid of Lou Read, a complete waste of space, who, like Risdale, has only brought Doom and Gloom to whatever Club they have been associated with

 

Les Reed, Lou Reed was with Velvet Underground and should never ever be got rid of,not sure that he's not dead though:x

Nope not dead.

Edited 3 March, 2011 by Window Cleaner

[Lord Duckhunter]

I think Lambert is a big part of the answer. Last season he was astonishingly good for us, moments of magic, free kicks, long rangers winning games when we were never going to score otherwise. This season he's got the odd goal but is nothing like the player from last season.

 

I think you've hit the nail on the head. Last season I wouldn't have swapped any League 1 striker for Lambert, this year he is just not the same, no matter what people try and say. Contrast his performances with Mackail-Smith's. Kelvin is also not quite as good as the high standards he showed last year and Hammond is also on the downward.

 

I think we should have made the play offs even with a -10 and not doing so was a failure which is on a par with not making the autos this season.

[david in sweden]

It is beginning to look like that. Bournemouth lost their manager, and the difference in form before/after was seamless

 

...but not so with Charlton, though Alpine.

Normally it does take time to adjust to the new boss ..Newcastle fans are still a bit unsure, I think.

[Thedelldays]

man for man best players in the league.....give me a break..

 

is..

 

kelvin

jaidi

hammond

Barnard

Guly

 

the best players in their positions.....?

probably not

 

I would also so pilkington is better this season that what OxO is....just OxO has a shed load more potential

[david in sweden]

I think Lambert is a big part of the answer. Last season he was astonishingly good for us, moments of magic, free kicks, long rangers winning games when we were never going to score otherwise. This season he's got the odd goal but is nothing like the player from last season.

 

well it is a bit more than the " odd goal " Barry, he's in the top pack this season, but last year Lallana was on fire and prompted lots of attacks and picked up some goals. We've been without him for two extended periods this season, and the results show it.

 

I know he scored on Saturday, but he looked short of match practice, and a long way from his good form of last season.

 

Whilst everyone is expecting AOC to be our saviour, he is a long way from becoming a 46 match player, and reading between the lines, also carrying an injury (acc. to NA).

 

We are too dependant on AL to inspire the team, and Lambert's "low" goal tally is merely another example of that.

 

I'm not saying " I told you so " NOW.. because I said it two months ago during the transfer window (and was heartily criticised by many), but now we have a longer list of key injuries, and one or two out of form and it shows, and their is no adequate cover on the bench as too much of it is on the treatment table.

[SaintRichmond]

Is that Les Reed?

 

Yes, you are correct

 

( I was taking a walk on the wild side )

[david in sweden]

Yes, you are correct

 

( I was taking a walk on the wild side )

 

Les Reed ?

..Er... wasn't that ...LOU REED ?

[Barry the Badger]

well it is a bit more than the " odd goal " Barry, he's in the top pack this season,.

 

Well, with penalties included yes he is, although that's a different argument.

 

You missed my point though. He isn't scoring the same type of goals, the ones out of nothing, the free kicks, the ones where you wouldn't expect him to score. He's still solidly going about getting a goal every few games, but those moments of inspiration have gone. It was those moments that made him our key player and the best striker in the division.

 

Every great team has players they can turn to for a moment of individual brilliance out of nothing when things aren't going their way. Lambert and Lallana were those players for us last season, I'm not sure Lambert has been at all this season.

 

I don't want to be overly critical of him, he's clearly trying, desperate to do well and he has still chipped in with some important goals. I like him as a player, but this is part of our issue as I see it, and part of why we are not as good as we thought we would be this season.

[Crab Lungs]

I echo the sentiments of a poster earlier (can't remember which one).

 

 

I too believe that we have players who are far too intelligent to be fooled by NA's constant 'positive rhetoric' and in fact, probably are sick of it. Nevermind, we'll see. I've got my razors at the ready - have you?

[ericofarabia]

I echo the sentiments of a poster earlier (can't remember which one).

 

 

I too believe that we have players who are far too intelligent to be fooled by NA's constant 'positive rhetoric' and in fact, probably are sick of it. Nevermind, we'll see. I've got my razors at the ready - have you?

 

Thought you'd be more of a hot wax strip man - you old back sack and cracker you!!!

[Crab Lungs]

Thought you'd be more of a hot wax strip man - you old back sack and cracker you!!!

 

Found it hard to hot wax myself to death after 04/05, so switched to more traditional methods!

[David Strover]

The saddest thing of all is admitting that the ****-taking Pimpley, Bompey and Gayton fans are right - we really are not that good.

[david in sweden]

Well, with penalties included yes he is, although that's a different argument.

You missed my point though. He isn't scoring the same type of goals, the ones out of nothing, the free kicks, the ones where you wouldn't expect him to score. He's still solidly going about getting a goal every few games, but those moments of inspiration have gone. It was those moments that made him our key player and the best striker in the division.

Every great team has players they can turn to for a moment of individual brilliance out of nothing when things aren't going their way. Lambert and Lallana were those players for us last season, I'm not sure Lambert has been at all this season.

 

I don't want to be overly critical of him, he's clearly trying, desperate to do well and he has still chipped in with some important goals. I like him as a player, but this is part of our issue as I see it, and part of why we are not as good as we thought we would be this season.

 

 

You REALLY didn't expect him to get 30+ goals again - or did you?

Even Ron Davies only got more than 30 in one season..after that everyone caught onto him and the same is true of Lambert. PLUS Lallana was on great form last season, both as a scorer and a provider. He's been out for extended periods twice this season already (11 games in all), and although he scored v. Swindon, he didn't look a patch on his former former self.

 

No-one is a one man band, and Ricky is already on line to reach 20 goals, our problem is that he doesn't have a consistant partner.

[Junction 9]

where is this evidence on paper that our players are so good? (other than we might have overpaid for some of them?) everyone reels this line out and Im starting to doubt what Ive been fed.

 

I am so glad it only took the second post to mention this. You are spot on.

[Katalinic]

We need more aggression in the side - not enough tough tacklers, in fact only one or two. In this league you either have Plan A which is play teams off the park or Plan B which is battle. We only seem to have Plan A.

[scotty]

Les Reed, Lou Reed was with Velvet Underground and should never ever be got rid of,not sure that he's not dead though:x

Nope not dead.

 

side-note, if there are any lou reed/velvet underground fans on here, he is playing the Hammersmith Apollo in July, I got tickets this morning.

 

 

edit- be warned tho, they are the best part of fifty notes apiece. Then again, he'll probably be dead soon so last chance, imo

Edited 4 March, 2011 by scotty

[lordswoodsaints]

If you ask me I'd say what we lack is the 'Manu mentality',Brighton have it and we don't.

Playing well for each other,chasing every lost cause ball until you get it,not stopping until the final whistle and getting in the officials faces.

[ottery st mary]

It may be an individual player thing, but I am more convinced it's a collective team thing...possibly connected with the Manager and Coaches in some way. One player having a bad day at the office could be covered by our other fantatistic players, but it's not like that.

 

In fact the one thing that I have thought all along is that, to get out of this league, you don't need highly skilled players - you need players that can be motivated to play out of their skins...to fight beyond their individual merits for their manager, the club, the supporters, even the Chairman. That's why Bompey are where they are. It's why Adkins was able to get Scunny into the CCC. Unfortunately, the make-up of our squad generally does not appear to match this profile. Perhaps our players are too clever to be fooled by the Managers rhetoric?!

 

Saved me typing...cheers

 

Exactly my thoughts..

 

 

Down to the Manager, Nigel and his team to sort it..

 

Come on Saints..

 

WIFM