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it cant be said now that SMS does not create a great atmosphere


OldNick
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In all the years of going to watch Saints there are only a handful of really standout atmospheres.

Saturday was one of the best. The Dell had its own unique feel but i have now experienced 3 or 4 at SMS to match the good old Dell.

Norwich relegation season, twice against the Skates and now Saturday's game.

The myth is buried that SMS is soulless IMO.

Also lets now move the away fans to block 2+3 and have the whole of the northam as a home end.

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Have to say that the mate who got me a ticket stuck me in row F right in the Chapel/Kingsland corner. Much nearer pitch level than I have been at SMS (except for forum games). Down there the noise was far more intense than stuck up in the middle of the stand as you didn't get the reverb from the roof and got the roll of noise from the whole stadium.

 

Stunning

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Why dont everyone in the Northam buy ST in Chapel end? Simples

 

Apart from the logistical nightmare of arranging about 4000 people to all move individually, most of the selling point of the Northam is being near the away fans anyway.

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In all the years of going to watch Saints there are only a handful of really standout atmospheres.

Saturday was one of the best. The Dell had its own unique feel but i have now experienced 3 or 4 at SMS to match the good old Dell.

Norwich relegation season, twice against the Skates and now Saturday's game.

The myth is buried that SMS is soulless IMO.

Also lets now move the away fans to block 2+3 and have the whole of the northam as a home end.

 

Wolves in the cup quarter final should be on your list.

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I thought they tried but a) people didn't want to? And b) the police wouldn't allow it.

There's no doubt SMS creates a cracking atmosphere, just not often enough. Although, saying that, its a lot louder than any other grounds I've been to this year.

 

Why is this a problem?

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In the Echo yesterday they gave 'atmosphere' 9/10 - how the hell do we get 10/10?

Even the away fans were happy. Nearly 32000 people all celebrating. Does it get better? Or maybe they are saving the 10 until this time next year!

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I always find the stuff about a great atmosphere at the Dell a bit of a myth. I loved the ground and night games always had a buzz about them and once Saints fans got in the covered Archers Road end they made a racket, but otherwise it was never that good, really not helped by having two completely uncovered ends.

 

I regularly moan about our fans and their choice of songs etc, but we are far, far better than the majority of other grounds these days.

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I regularly moan about our fans and their choice of songs etc, but we are far, far better than the majority of other grounds these days.

Yep, of all the clubs with new stadia, I'd put St Mary's pretty high up the list in terms of its atmosphere.

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i usually sit in the Chapel and I am not be critical of the Northam but it never sounds particularly loud from the Chapel - however on Sat it sounded superb with the extra blocks and that set the rest of the ground off - I also thought that the Chapel sounded equally as great in the one or two songs that they all got going. This season no matter what people in the Northam think - both United and Brighton were much louder than our home support in the Northam - Next season when we have a lot of big travelling away support - i think it will equal out our support and not create an intimidating atmosphere for the opposition. I definately think we need to move the away support somewhere to take over the whole of the Northam - this may not create as much banter there but will significantly improve the overall atmosphere at SMS

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Surely atmosphere is created in part by the game?

 

A game against local rivals is always going to create a great atmosphere, most games at the latter stages of a cup run when it looks like you might win something, beating relegation on the last day of the season or gaining promotion. These sort of games generate an atmosphere. Yeovil in mid season on a tuesday night with six away fans will always struggle to generate much atmosphere.

 

I don't think SMS is bad for atmosphere, some games just lend themselves to a better than normal atmosphere.

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i usually sit in the Chapel and I am not be critical of the Northam but it never sounds particularly loud from the Chapel - however on Sat it sounded superb with the extra blocks and that set the rest of the ground off - I also thought that the Chapel sounded equally as great in the one or two songs that they all got going. This season no matter what people in the Northam think - both United and Brighton were much louder than our home support in the Northam - Next season when we have a lot of big travelling away support - i think it will equal out our support and not create an intimidating atmosphere for the opposition. I definately think we need to move the away support somewhere to take over the whole of the Northam - this may not create as much banter there but will significantly improve the overall atmosphere at SMS

 

This debate pops up every couple of months. There are few "ends" in teh football league that provide better support on a regular basis (and not just a handful of big games) than the Northam. Yes it will be outsung now and again by the like of Man Utd, but that's the exception as opposed to the rule. There is no practical place for the away fans to be moved to. AN easy and obvious solution to improving the atmosphere and drowning out large numbers of away supporters is to re-open blocks 1-3 of the Itchen.............

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I thought they tried but a) people didn't want to? And b) the police wouldn't allow it.

There's no doubt SMS creates a cracking atmosphere, just not often enough. Although, saying that, its a lot louder than any other grounds I've been to this year.

 

Why is this a problem?

 

It's a problem because without police approval you don't have much chance of holding a match.

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There have been many great atmospheres at St marys Saturday was great it could be miles better if people dont rush the songs they seem to think there is a prize for getting to the end of the songs before it has begun properly.

 

PLEASE slow down OWTS when sung properly is a anthem it is our song lets get it right ffs

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There have been many great atmospheres at St marys Saturday was great it could be miles better if people dont rush the songs they seem to think there is a prize for getting to the end of the songs before it has begun properly.

 

PLEASE slow down OWTS when sung properly is a anthem it is our song lets get it right ffs

 

OWTS sounds great slow or fast for us, but I agree about songs being sped up - no idea why the Guly one suddenly developed fast paced clapping to go alongside it. Sounded much better before.

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Loosely related, is there a general preference to kick to the Northam in the first half? Mostly we seem to do that and guessing it must be preferred by the team, of course perhaps when we win the toss we choose to k.o. I don't know.

 

Personally I'd prefer toward Northam in second half.

 

Has there ever been a poll on here?

 

cheers, Alan

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This season no matter what people in the Northam think - both United and Brighton were much louder than our home support in the Northam - Next season when we have a lot of big travelling away support - i think it will equal out our support and not create an intimidating atmosphere for the opposition. I definately think we need to move the away support somewhere to take over the whole of the Northam - this may not create as much banter there but will significantly improve the overall atmosphere at SMS

 

!?!?!!!

 

Maybe if other people outside of the northam and kingsland corner made ANY noise apart from groaning when a pass goes astray, or we score, we might have more of a chance of creating an intimidating atmosphere!!

 

The northam is limited by its capacity, even if the away fans were removed (which the police prevented). It shouldn't be left to those supporters to be the only section of our crowd that prevents us from falling into the library category as Highbury was and the Withdean did only afew weeks ago.

 

Sunday's exhibition match was a prime example of what would happen if the rowdy contingent were hypothetically removed.

 

Every supporter in the stadium is equally responsible for creating a positive atmosphere that our players enjoy and use to their advantage as a confidence and morale boost.

 

As you may have guessed i am a Northam sth, and every game i wish the other sections of the stadium would make more noise in general, and ideally start chants, or at least start clapping sessions to trigger chants etc.

Edited by Macey_J2
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In all the years of going to watch Saints there are only a handful of really standout atmospheres.

Saturday was one of the best. The Dell had its own unique feel but i have now experienced 3 or 4 at SMS to match the good old Dell.

Norwich relegation season, twice against the Skates and now Saturday's game.

The myth is buried that SMS is soulless IMO.

Also lets now move the away fans to block 2+3 and have the whole of the northam as a home end.

 

I'll add v Bobby Robson's Newcastle to that.

But it's the fans who create the atmosphere - not the stadium, even if the pitch is far away and the seats raked at a shallow angle.

 

Nowhere and at no other stadium have I experienced the wall of decibals as on Saturday!

We can do it. Magnificent!

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!?!?!!!

 

Maybe if other people outside of the northam and kingsland corner made ANY noise apart from groaning when a pass goes astray, or we score, we might have more of a chance of creating an intimidating atmosphere!!

 

The northam is limited by its capacity, even if the away fans were removed (which the police prevented). It shouldn't be left to those supporters to be the only section of our crowd that prevents us from falling into the library category as Highbury was and the Withdean did only afew weeks ago.

 

Sunday's exhibition match was a prime example of what would happen if the rowdy contingent were hypothetically removed.

 

Every supporter in the stadium is equally responsible for creating a positive atmosphere that our players enjoy and use to their advantage as a confidence and morale boost.

 

As you may have guessed i am a Northam sth, and every game i wish the other sections of the stadium would make more noise in general, and ideally start chants, or at least start clapping sessions to trigger chants etc.

 

 

Seconded. To be honest I can't see why anyone would go to see their team and not try and make some noise. The Kingsland Corner has kicked on a bit recently, the noisy areas reaching into blocks 34/35 rather than ending in block 37.

 

Itchen 1-3 would be good when open again I think.

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I'll add v Bobby Robson's Newcastle to that.

But it's the fans who create the atmosphere - not the stadium, even if the pitch is far away and the seats raked at a shallow angle.

 

Nowhere and at no other stadium have I experienced the wall of decibals as on Saturday!

We can do it. Magnificent!

I agree but therev has been a train of thought since SMS has been opened that it does not produce the atmosphere the Dell did. I do not agree.
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Seconded. To be honest I can't see why anyone would go to see their team and not try and make some noise. The Kingsland Corner has kicked on a bit recently, the noisy areas reaching into blocks 34/35 rather than ending in block 37.

 

Itchen 1-3 would be good when open again I think.

i sit in the Northam and recognise that that part of the ground generates a lot of noise but when I have been in the Itchen it is not heard as the away fans drown it out.

Notice how a lot of clubs put the away fans on the side of the ground so that the support is nullified.

If we could move the away support to blocks 2-3 some would still be able to be next to the away support , if that is so necessary but we would have a whole end of fans singing the team to victory.

I just dont get the need to be next to the away fans, especially if they are able then to outsing the home fans.

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It's a problem because without police approval you don't have much chance of holding a match.

 

Great answer. What I really want to know is why would the police object to effectively moving the away fans around the corner a bit i.e. to blocks, 47, 48, 1, 2 & 3.

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!?!?!!!

 

Maybe if other people outside of the northam and kingsland corner made ANY noise apart from groaning when a pass goes astray, or we score, we might have more of a chance of creating an intimidating atmosphere!!The northam is limited by its capacity, even if the away fans were removed (which the police prevented). It shouldn't be left to those supporters to be the only section of our crowd that prevents us from falling into the library category as Highbury was and the Withdean did only afew weeks ago.

 

Sunday's exhibition match was a prime example of what would happen if the rowdy contingent were hypothetically removed.

 

Every supporter in the stadium is equally responsible for creating a positive atmosphere that our players enjoy and use to their advantage as a confidence and morale boost.

 

As you may have guessed i am a Northam sth, and every game i wish the other sections of the stadium would make more noise in general, and ideally start chants, or at least start clapping sessions to trigger chants etc.

 

You're making the mistake of assuming everyone goes to the football for the same reasons as you. Birds of a feather flock together, the Northam all want to stand up, sing and banter thats why they go to the Northam. The Chapel want to sit down and watch football thats why they go to the Chapel. Neithers wrong or right, but there is no point expecting others to want to do the same things as you on a saturday afternoon.

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Great answer. What I really want to know is why would the police object to effectively moving the away fans around the corner a bit i.e. to blocks, 47, 48, 1, 2 & 3.

 

For me the blocks 1/2/3 will always be objected to as who would want to shell out a small fortune for an executive box to have 3k+ Skates/Milwall/Leeds/Man Utd stood infront of them. Plus how far towards the dug outs and directors seating would you have to go to provide the required allocation for cup games in particular? Don't think it would fit. Then there is the problem of segregating downstairs in the Itchen, entrances etc, just not designed for it.

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For me the blocks 1/2/3 will always be objected to as who would want to shell out a small fortune for an executive box to have 3k+ Skates/Milwall/Leeds/Man Utd stood infront of them. Plus how far towards the dug outs and directors seating would you have to go to provide the required allocation for cup games in particular? Don't think it would fit. Then there is the problem of segregating downstairs in the Itchen, entrances etc, just not designed for it.

I think it might work quite well for big away followings, but not so well for teams that don't bring many fans.

 

What I believe they currently do is cordon off the back couple of rows in block 4, so they could easily do that in 1-3 as well, so there's a gap between them and the corporates, and also to ensure standing supporters wouldn't be blocking any views. The usual netting could be used between block 4/5 and the corporate section, where there's already a rail which can act as a natural barrier anyway. The concourse in the Itchen North is massive, which is fine when the away team brings 3,000, but you can't segregate it at all if the away team only brought, say, 500, which obviously can be done in the Northam.

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I think it might work quite well for big away followings, but not so well for teams that don't bring many fans.

 

What I believe they currently do is cordon off the back couple of rows in block 4, so they could easily do that in 1-3 as well, so there's a gap between them and the corporates, and also to ensure standing supporters wouldn't be blocking any views. The usual netting could be used between block 4/5 and the corporate section, where there's already a rail which can act as a natural barrier anyway. The concourse in the Itchen North is massive, which is fine when the away team brings 3,000, but you can't segregate it at all if the away team only brought, say, 500, which obviously can be done in the Northam.

 

Yeah that's what they do at the back of block 4, but in my opinion there is a fairly significant difference to having a few slightly lively Saints fans in front of you or 3k Leeds/Skates etc. Plus what is the actual capacity of blocks 1-4? How far round would you have to go to give 3.2k and how much for the full FA Cup allocation?

 

The way I look at it, there just isn't enough benefit in it for the club to balance out any hassle or change it may require.

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No way cordoning a few rows at the back of the Itchen North will make a difference. The back of block 4 is pretty lively -arguably the best pound for pound part of the ground. SMS typically puts the scouts in front of block 4 which is usually OK -except when Warren Aspinall or a mob interested in OXO pop along. For the Brizzle game, it was assumed that one of the adjacent boxes had been hired by away fans which led to a bit of trouble until it was realised that they were just Saints fans albeit giving it the big-I am. For the 2009/2010 game against Brighton, a box had been hired by away fans, resulting in the OB's involvement. If that's the history with saints supporters, you can imagine what it would be like with a massive away contingent.

 

Surely a simple solution is to keep the away fans where they are and just reopen/sell STs for blocks 1-3 again. This was the case when we were last in the championship until Woopert's experiment in financial cannibalism. Surely that season should be seen as a blip borne of crazy circumstances; yet people take the status quo for granted. Yes it means that the home fans are seperated; but the combined noise that the Northam and blocks 1-4 make is more than enough to create an atmosphere and drown out away support.

Edited by shurlock
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No way cordoning a few rows at the back of the Itchen North will make a difference. Block 4 is pretty lively -arguably the best pound for pound part of the ground. SMS typically puts the scouts in front of block 4 which is usually OK -except when Warren Aspinall or a mob interested in OXO pop along. For the Brizzle game, it was assumed that one of the adjacent boxes had been hired by away fans which led to a bit of trouble until it was realised that they were just Saints fans albeit giving it the big-I am. For the 2009/2010 game against Brighton, a box had been hired by away fans, resulting in the OB's involvement. If that's the history with saints supporters, you can imagine what it would be like with a massive away contingent.

 

Surely a simple solution is to keep the away fans where they are and just reopen/sell STs for blocks 1-3 again. This was the case when we were last in the championship until Woopert's experiment in financial cannibalism. Surely that season should be seen as a blip borne of crazy circumstances; yet people take the status quo for granted. Yes it means that the home fans are seperated; but the combined noise that the Northam and blocks 1-4 make is more than enough to create an atmosphere and drown out away support.

 

Yep, that's pretty much my thoughts on it all. I wonder what people's thoughts are on the likelihood of 1-3 being available for next season? Or will they always be kept as the very last option once the rest of the ground is sold out?

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surely level of support is related to importance of game and success of team, moving fans around makes no difference you still get 3200 away fans who, like we do when away, all make a noise.

The Northam has extended round the corner into the Kingsland,if the rest of the Northam became free would the Northam/Kingsland corner move to it? I doubt it.

The noise and support will be there if team is winning and giving its all

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My brothers "Liverpool supporting" mate was at the game Saturday and remarked afterwards that the atmoshere was awesome and far better than "any of the amazing European nights at Anfield" he had attended.

 

 

As for moving the awayt fans perhaps we should expand the stadium first and put them on the second tier somewhere.

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Yep, that's pretty much my thoughts on it all. I wonder what people's thoughts are on the likelihood of 1-3 being available for next season? Or will they always be kept as the very last option once the rest of the ground is sold out?

Ultimately, regardless of the atmospheric rights and wrongs over the decision to close those three blocks, the fact does remain that it is the most expensive part of the ground to police when it's open (even more so than the Northam, strangely). As a result, I would imagine it'll remain closed (and re-opened on an ad-hoc basis) until there is proof that the attendances can justify it being re-opened permanently.

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Ultimately, regardless of the atmospheric rights and wrongs over the decision to close those three blocks, the fact does remain that it is the most expensive part of the ground to police when it's open (even more so than the Northam, strangely). As a result, I would imagine it'll remain closed (and re-opened on an ad-hoc basis) until there is proof that the attendances can justify it being re-opened permanently.

 

True - though worth bearing in mind that the last time it was open -2007/2008- our attendances weren't that much different from this season - and our attendances next season promise to be higher. Hard to believe that it is financially prohibitive; otherwise they would not have stayed open when we dropped to the championship. Maybe this was another example of a club that had lost control of the business side and it took Lowe to put things right? I like to think it was a decision taken at a time when the proverbial family silver was being flogged - and most of the savings generated were ultimately pretty trivial.

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The Man Utd game is being used as an example of drowning out the Northam when only block 41 was open to saints fans? I should bloody well hope that United outsung the Northam when they had 3/4's of it!

 

When Kimgsland North & Northam manage to sing at the same pace, i.e When the facing board bashers at the back of the Northam don't get involved and speed up songs to breakneck speed, we sound awesome! Unfortunately, the songs are too often sped up to stupid speeds by the blasted board bashers and everyone gives up.

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True - though worth bearing in mind that the last time it was open -2007/2008- our attendances weren't that much different from this season - and our attendances next season promise to be higher. Hard to believe that it is financially prohibitive; otherwise they would not have stayed open when we dropped to the championship. Maybe this was another example of a club that had lost control of the business side and it took Lowe to put things right? I like to think it was a decision taken at a time when the proverbial family silver was being flogged - and most of the savings generated were ultimately pretty trivial.

In the first two years in the Championship, the finances were fairly stable, mainly as they were being propped up with the parachute payments, so there wasn't an "apparent" need to save relatively small amounts of money in that way - particularly in a way that was likely to be unpopular among the fans. Unfortunately, by the time the decision was taken to close that part of the ground, it really was a case of saving whatever money the club could in any way possible.

 

When I used to sit in that area of the ground, there were stewards every two or three rows, so would estimate there must have been at least 10 stewards in a static position lining the metal barrier between block 1 and the away section. I've no idea how much stewards get paid, but if we assume a 4-hour shift (including pre-match briefing and then on duty from the moment the turnstiles open until the ground has emptied after the game), multiplied by the 10 stewards, and then add the (much more expensive) cost of having police officers on duty in the ground as well, you can probably imagine the match-by-match cost gets pretty expensive pretty quickly when those parts of the ground are open.

 

I'd certainly agree that having those blocks open (particularly with season tickets available in them) is a massive advantage to us in terms of the atmosphere. However, I'm sure the club would counter that - with a fair bit of justification based on the last two seasons - the atmosphere has been pretty good even without the "stereo" effect around the away section.

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Ermmmm I'd rather they didn't I rather like the chapel the way it is..... I'm not sure putting all the Northam lot next to the the family area would be a good idea HTBH

 

 

Basically the suggestion is that either we move the away fans a little or swap ends with the Northam. It wouldn't be as much of a job if they moved the away fans though there would always be a few complaints.

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The away fans should be kingsland/chapel corner, end of!!

Just think:

 

 

 

They would be away from TV cameras, cos its always them and empty seats that you see on telly

 

A full northam end of home supporters and the noise they would create.

 

Keep them away from boxes and corporate.

 

Easy to segregate concourse

 

Room to park away coaches outside

 

Please please please police and NC sort it out.

 

 

 

Lock the buggers in for 20 minutes after the game to clear surrounds, many clubs do that to us without question

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The away fans should be kingsland/chapel corner, end of!!

Just think:

 

 

 

They would be away from TV cameras, cos its always them and empty seats that you see on telly

 

A full northam end of home supporters and the noise they would create.

 

Keep them away from boxes and corporate.

 

Easy to segregate concourse

 

Room to park away coaches outside

 

Please please please police and NC sort it out.

 

 

 

Lock the buggers in for 20 minutes after the game to clear surrounds, many clubs do that to us without question

this would be ideal & i think was what the club wanted to do but the police said no.

makes sense as there is already a separate concourse for the old family section in that corner.

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The away fans should be kingsland/chapel corner, end of!!

Just think:

 

 

 

They would be away from TV cameras, cos its always them and empty seats that you see on telly

 

A full northam end of home supporters and the noise they would create.

 

Keep them away from boxes and corporate.

 

Easy to segregate concourse

 

Room to park away coaches outside

 

Please please please police and NC sort it out.

 

 

 

Lock the buggers in for 20 minutes after the game to clear surrounds, many clubs do that to us without question

 

This is what the club looked into but the police refused due to the Police control room being immediatley behind the away stand.

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Have to say that the mate who got me a ticket stuck me in row F right in the Chapel/Kingsland corner. Much nearer pitch level than I have been at SMS (except for forum games). Down there the noise was far more intense than stuck up in the middle of the stand as you didn't get the reverb from the roof and got the roll of noise from the whole stadium.

 

Stunning

 

I was literally two rows in front of you, and I was giving it the beans. I normally sit in the back of the Kingsland south, and nobody sings, so I tend to feel out of place. Think I might try Kingsland north next season, I likes a bit of a sing song.

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